The Lincoln Deck - Kickstarter Unsuccessful

[MagikFingerz]

***************** EDIT!

This Campaign has been re-launched...



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I thought I'd make a thread about this and share some thoughts as I think this has potential IF it rectifies some of its BIG flaws.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/set ... spired-usa

(I didn't add pics because it was just one bigass poster for the entire kickstarter)

First of all, $16 for 1 deck shipped internationally and $13 each for 2 is redonkulous. It would have to be gold plated to warrant such high prices.

Back design: Obvious one-way back and (too much) text are both big no-no's.

Faces: Court cards alse have (too much) text and could be more customized, as the standard modern court cards doesn't really fit in with the theme of the deck. Ageing effects going over the edges should be avoided to prevent ugly fans and spreads. Indices could be slightly closer to the edge for the same reason.

Stretch goals: The custom seal (200%) is good, but free stickers (150%) and postcards (250%) are pretty lame ones.

Stock and finish: Should be stated, possibly along with printing quality (Q1, Q2 etc).

Good things: Thin borders, beautiful Ace of Spades (IMO), and good consistency with the overall theme (apart from courts as mentioned) and color scheme.

[Evan]

I like everything but the one way back, and that it's $12. It's a cool looking deck, but for it's price, it's a pass for me.

[Russell]

Who are the two idiots that just payed $65 for a single deck? Fess up!

Pledge $65 or more
2 backers Limited (10 of 12 left)
#11. LUCKY DOZEN: Be one of the first to receive the Lincoln deck! We guarantee to ship these 12 decks first before any other orders, and we will also include 2 day shipping!
Estimated delivery: Mar 2013
Ships within the US only

You are not getting 12 decks people! You are getting 1 of the dozen. 12 decks costs $105.

[CBJ]

I really like the deck, but I'm passing because of the price (and it's not a Bicycle branded deck)

CBJ

[walrus]

The AoS and the tuck case look nice. Could be that I am a bit of a history buff but this is the first KS deck that has interested me in a while. I would back it but as others have said the pricing seems a bit dubious.

[CBJ]

He wrote this in the comments section

"the price is a bit higher than your average Bicycle deck but considering it's unique design and limited printing I think it's a fair price. We've spent a lot of time and effort on the research, development, and presentation of these decks, and in the end I think that they will be worth the price (and the wait). "

'limited printing' -- but they are printing 10,000 decks... so this is a load of crap.

and there are a lot of decks out there that have a unique design that people take tons of time designing.

This new trend of more expensive decks needs to stop... it's getting out of control. The only way to stop it, is to NOT buy them.

[MJF]

$15,850 = 10,000 decks... that's $1.58/deck... yet, he wants $12/deck... uhm, no. Don't get me wrong. It's a beautiful deck, but there's some problems with it that I think are going to prevent folks from jumping on this one...

Yeah, count me out on this one - and that's TOUGH for me to say as a collector.


and I'm not sure what the hell he means by "KickStarter pricing" ... looks like any typical money grab to me.

[MagikFingerz]

I have sent the creator a message, hopefully he'll come here and join the discussion.

[badpete69]

Who are the two idiots that just payed $65 for a single deck? Fess up!

You are not getting 12 decks people! You are getting 1 of the dozen. 12 decks costs $105.

Good point..I was wondering the same thing before. $65 to get the deck a week before everyone hahahahah That is the dumbest reward I have ever heard of

[Ryric]

• The branding on the court needs to go, the court really should have some more "union" influence.
• The back is obviously one way (honestly making an awesome two-way back is half the battle).
• Not really sure what makes these "Lincoln" except the box and the time period.
• I would prefer the back design as the tuck box.
• Diamonds and Hearts should be a faded red (usability)

Fundraising goal seems low for a 10k run (considering most 5k runs are usually looking to raise 15k) anyone with insight?

[4pmdesigner]

The artwork shows promise and with the right adjustments will be a pretty solid deck. However, the goal is way too risky. It seems he is relying on overfunding, which even though many decks do succeed in, isn't a guarantee by far. There's no way his deck is costing him just over $15k for 10k decks. Especially since the goal is so precise. It seems they may have gotten the preliminary quote by the USPCC and ran with it without considering the extra costs USPCC will charge later on down the road while finalizing their contract and production. Let's not forget the shipping costs that can easily come out to at LEAST half of their current goal. I really dig the deck, but I seriously hope they have additional back up funds if they happen to just make their goal or else they'll be a lot of chaos going around among their pledges.

[LincolnCardCo]

Hey everyone!

My name is Seth Byrd and this is my Kickstarter project 'The Lincoln deck'. I wanted to answer all of the questions that you guys had and try my absolute best to state my case. I am in no way a playing card collector, so a lot of these concerns never even crossed my mind when I worked with David Smith designing them.

The Price:

It is a higher than normal price, there's no doubt about that. I've spent a lot of time and effort into making this deck a reality, and that was the price that I felt it was worth. Some people will agree some will disagree, but in the end I don't want anyone to back my project that feels like they're getting cheated or ripped off. As for being a money grabber, yes I would like to be compensated for my time I've invested into this.

Also, the $12 includes US shipping which will be around $3 so that brings the cost of 1 deck to around $9.

Back design:

This was one detail about the deck that did not cross my mind until we had finished, and that was the fact that the back design was one way. Theres definitely enough of a difference that will bother a lot of people when the cards are upside down, but I wanted the deck to be unique so I didn't really worry about it. The inspiration for this deck was actually several different decks, all made in the 1800's. While most of the backs I saw were mirrored, there were always several that decided to change things up and make the design one way.

Examples here: http://i.imgur.com/fx2bo.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think the deck is now ruined because of the back, but if there was one thing I could change it would be to make the back mirrored.

Court Faces:

I wanted to give the artist as much creative freedom as I possibly could, and I let him have the final say on almost every design decision. This was one of those decisions. Choosing the style of the court cards was tough, but we went through several different versions and finally landed on these.

Stock and finish:

Im ashamed to say that I do not know the answer to this question. I've already emailed a U.S.P.C. representative, so I'll get back to you on this as soon as I have the answer.

Bicycle brand:

We didn't think it was worth it to paying an extra $0.30 a deck just to add the Bicycle logo. Considering it doesn't add anything to the quality of the cards/case, I didn't see the value in it other than possibly increasing our in-store sales.

Limited Printing:

Im not sure if the term 'Limited printing' refers to a specific range in the card community (so I apologize if it does), but I was under the impression that if the quantity was not unlimited than it would be considered Limited. This may not be the most limited deck out there, but this was just the number that I decided on.

Kickstarter goal:

I've spent the last month researching, pricing, and planning for this project so I feel that my goal of $15,850 is correct for my approach. This is not the amount I need to print 10,000 decks, but the amount that I considered to be my break-even point. At this level I can print 2,750 cards and I'll still have some room to breathe.

The 10,000 is the max number of cards im ever going to print of this particular deck. If we barely meet our goal there may only be 3,000 made, it really just depends on the demand.

Lincoln:

Lincoln was our original theme, but it ended up morphing into a "1800's themed deck" more than anything. When it was completely finished we considered changing the name, but instead we just considered it to be more inspired by Lincoln rather than themed after him.

Diamonds/hearts colors:

This was just something David thought would look really neat, giving them that gold-ish color instead of the traditional red. It may end up being more of a hinderance for people that want to use this deck more card games than anything, so hopefully we didn't make the wrong choice on this one.


Some more expenses for this project:
- Printer set-up fees
- Shipping costs
- Shipping Materials & supplies (foam peanuts, tape, etc)
- Shipping boxes
- Handeling (I'll be hiring some friends and family to help me ship these out on time)
- Kickstarter's 5% cut
- Amazon's 3-5% cut
- Taxes

But most importantly: time

I love answering questions and replying to comments and concerns such as these, but it all takes time. Individually they aren't very much, but when multiplied by many people they can easily consume a large portion of your day.

Anyways, thanks for all of the questions and hope I answered them all. I promise I'll try to check back here often and follow up with any other questions or concerns you guys have. I do apologize if this deck is in any way insulting to the playing card community, because this was never my intentions.

Honestly, I just wanted to help make a cool looking deck that was both unique and something that I personally would enjoy.

Thanks!
-Seth Byrd

*Also, im extremely tired so please forgive any spelling/grammer errors.

[Evan]

Welcome to UC! Thank you for explaining everything.

[LincolnCardCo]

Hey, no problem!

I just hope I didn't step on too many toes with this deck, because this is definitely a forum I'd like to frequent.

[badpete69]

Lincoln

I do not think you stepped on any toes. I have not been part of the UC community for very long, but everybody usually speak their minds openly and in a civil way. Kickstarter projects always get scrutinized and both positive and negative comments (or should I say constructive) come a plenty. There has been about 60 cards projects in the past 6 months from KS, so that is why there is always lots of comparison to other projects. I wish you luck with your Lincoln project

[MJF]

Lincoln, no worries, you definitely are not stepping on anyone's toes, as badpete stated... Many of us are opinionated collectors and have witnessed numerous KickStarter projects and seen why many succeed and why the others fail. You've got a hell of a deck, especially design-wise. I myself would prefer to see a slightly lower price per deck, but you're free to charge what you will.

I hope your deck does get funded, as it is a good looking deck and would be very collectible.

[cosmicsecret]

I think CBJ is totally right.Prices for KS decks are exploding lately....and we should not support that.
Its nothing personal here,your deck is just the "next" deck on KS which is over the $10 mark.
I suggest listen to the people here at UC to adjust price and design to become a sucessfully funded
Project.
With a deck of cards you have to approach different types of people : collectors,card players,cardists and magicians to shed out money for your project.
Satisfiying most of them would be wise.

[Naxx]

I assume MAJORITY here are collectors and who cares if its a one way back? No offense.

Everything is beautiful except the price

[MagikFingerz]

I assume MAJORITY here are collectors and who cares if its a one way back? No offense. :I lack proper communication skills, so I typed 'LOL' instead of a worthwhile response.:

Quite a few in my experience. Lots of collectors are also cardists and magicians, which is why they started collecting in the first place.

No offence taken

[Naxx]

I assume MAJORITY here are collectors and who cares if its a one way back? No offense. :I lack proper communication skills, so I typed 'I lack proper communication skills, so I typed 'LOL' instead of a worthwhile response.' instead of a worthwhile response.:

Quite a few in my experience. Lots of collectors are also cardists and magicians, which is why they started collecting in the first place.

No offence taken

From what I've seen in the collection thread. Majority only bought 1 of each particular deck. What I meant was that since they only bought one deck and kept in sealed, why bother if its one way back? The editing of my original post is uncalled for.

[Encarded]

I've spent the last month researching, pricing, and planning for this project so I feel that my goal of $15,850 is correct for my approach. This is not the amount I need to print 10,000 decks, but the amount that I considered to be my break-even point. At this level I can print 2,750 cards and I'll still have some room to breathe.

The 10,000 is the max number of cards im ever going to print of this particular deck. If we barely meet our goal there may only be 3,000 made, it really just depends on the demand.

Do note that with USPCC you generally can't pick the number of decks you want to print. For most projects, the minimum print run is 5,000. Perhaps they are being extra cool with you but only rarely do they print less than 5,000 per job. Might want to double check that.

[MagikFingerz]

I assume MAJORITY here are collectors and who cares if its a one way back? No offense. :I lack proper communication skills, so I typed 'I lack proper communication skills, so I typed 'I lack proper communication skills, so I typed 'LOL' instead of a worthwhile response.' instead of a worthwhile response.' instead of a worthwhile response.:

Quite a few in my experience. Lots of collectors are also cardists and magicians, which is why they started collecting in the first place.

No offence taken

From what I've seen in the collection thread. Majority only bought 1 of each particular deck. What I meant was that since they only bought one deck and kept in sealed, why bother if its one way back? The editing of my original post is uncalled for.

I didn't edit anything in your post. When I quote this again it seems to add on. Strange.

Yes, some people do that. But far from all. The people posting in that thread is not a big enough sample to judge the entire community, and they usually don't state that they keep their one deck sealed.

[Russell]

Only Mods and Admins can edit other people posts.

It was a word filter that went insane. I just fixed the problem.

Sorry, back to the Lincoln deck.

[LincolnCardCo]

I've spent the last month researching, pricing, and planning for this project so I feel that my goal of $15,850 is correct for my approach. This is not the amount I need to print 10,000 decks, but the amount that I considered to be my break-even point. At this level I can print 2,750 cards and I'll still have some room to breathe.

The 10,000 is the max number of cards im ever going to print of this particular deck. If we barely meet our goal there may only be 3,000 made, it really just depends on the demand.

Do note that with USPCC you generally can't pick the number of decks you want to print. For most projects, the minimum print run is 5,000. Perhaps they are being extra cool with you but only rarely do they print less than 5,000 per job. Might want to double check that.

Hey Encarded,

First off, I love your Tendril deck! Really nice work, especially on that back design.

Yes, that is correct. Unfortunately due to their over-run/under-run of 10% you will not know how many cards you will be receiving. I spoke with a USPC business development manager about 3 weeks ago and she told me that the lowest quantity that I can order is 2,500. So to play it safe I'll need to order 2,750 to account for their possible 10% under-run. I don't know if she gave me a special deal or not, but I'll double check to make sure their offer still stands.

Oh and to answer the question from earlier, the card stock will be Bicycle grade paper and it will have the embossed finish (also known as magic, cambric, linen and air-cushion).

Just out of curiosity, which term do you guys usually use when referring to the USPC embossed finish? I've heard both magic and air-cushion, but the other 2 are new to me.

[Russell]

Those are the two DIFFERENT finishes USPCC offers. Spend a little more and get Magic Finish.

[vjose32]

I've spent the last month researching, pricing, and planning for this project so I feel that my goal of $15,850 is correct for my approach. This is not the amount I need to print 10,000 decks, but the amount that I considered to be my break-even point. At this level I can print 2,750 cards and I'll still have some room to breathe.

The 10,000 is the max number of cards im ever going to print of this particular deck. If we barely meet our goal there may only be 3,000 made, it really just depends on the demand.

Do note that with USPCC you generally can't pick the number of decks you want to print. For most projects, the minimum print run is 5,000. Perhaps they are being extra cool with you but only rarely do they print less than 5,000 per job. Might want to double check that.

Hey Encarded,

First off, I love your Tendril deck! Really nice work, especially on that back design.

Yes, that is correct. Unfortunately due to their over-run/under-run of 10% you will not know how many cards you will be receiving. I spoke with a USPC business development manager about 3 weeks ago and she told me that the lowest quantity that I can order is 2,500. So to play it safe I'll need to order 2,750 to account for their possible 10% under-run. I don't know if she gave me a special deal or not, but I'll double check to make sure their offer still stands.

Oh and to answer the question from earlier, the card stock will be Bicycle grade paper and it will have the embossed finish (also known as magic, cambric, linen and air-cushion).

Just out of curiosity, which term do you guys usually use when referring to the USPC embossed finish? I've heard both magic and air-cushion, but the other 2 are new to me.

Last time I checked Magic Finish and Air Cushion Finish are 2 different finishes. But Cambric and Linen are the same as Air Cushion as far as I know.

[LincolnCardCo]

Hmmm, well this is just what I've been told but I may have misunderstood her.

So you guys all recommend the BEE card stock with the magic finish?

[Russell]

That is the best combination. Bee-Casino with Magic Finish.

[Evan]

Bee Casino stock with Magic finish is definitely the best combo!

[badpete69]

This project has been relisted with cheaper prices....I did pledge this time