[goonie] My vintage and magic cards collection...

[goonie]

Hi from Victoria, BC. My name is Mat and I am a Brit who emigrated to Canada at the turn of the millenium.

Most of my collection came from my late father Kenneth Smith who operated nightclubs all over the UK from the 60's to the late 90's and was a collector of cards and magic. I am sure there are members here who knew my father, he was a member of the magic circle in Wolverhampton in the UK. The circle used his venues every week for more than a decade to perform table magic and cardistry to his patrons.

Although I have been around it all my life, I am no cardist and I am certainly no magician. However, I have always been fascinated by cards and magic.

I will be posting lots of pictures of my collection so if anyone sees my posts or has any wisdom to offer, don't hold back. I am the first to admit my lack of knowledge...

I look forward to learning more from your insights.

[goonie]

Here we go...

Some Worshipful cards...

Festival of Britain 1951. Boxed. Single pack (sealed).
Freedom of London twin-pack 1943. Boxed. One opened (mint), one pack sealed.
London Olympics Pack 1948. Boxed. One opened (mint), one pack sealed.

[Jock1971]

Very nice cards. Is the Olympiad set in an Original Box ?

[goonie]

Very nice cards. Is the Olympiad set in an Original Box ?

Glad you like them.They are all original. The Olympiad box is in better condition than the other two.

I will be posting more cards later this evening. Hope you like them.

[dazzleguts]

Welcome to the forum!

I am on the island myself, in Parksville.
Used to live in Victoria, and really liked it there, but had to move up-island.

Jase (Jock1971) is very knowledgable on British decks, especially Waddingtons.

Do you have anything off the beaten path in that collection? I'm always on the lookout for odd decks with bizarre and interesting graphics.

[goonie]

Welcome to the forum!

I am on the island myself, in Parksville.
Used to live in Victoria, and really liked it there, but had to move up-island.

Jase (Jock1971) is very knowledgable on British decks, especially Waddingtons.

Do you have anything off the beaten path in that collection? I'm always on the lookout for odd decks with bizarre and interesting graphics.

I love it up in Parksville. We are in Happy Valley, nr Langford.

Jase introduced himself to me in the introductions forums.

I am sure I have some decks that you will both find interesting. I will get the camera out and post some today.

[goonie]

A few of my twin-decks:

A PIATNIK twin deck from Austria. Date not sure.

A Shipping related twin-deck. Both sealed. (Polish Ocean Lines). 1960s. Manufactured by Artex in Budapest-Hungary. "Playing-Card Factory and Printing House"

***EDIT*** Links to POL cards: (Thanks jase [Jock1971])
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02957/d02957.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wopc.co.uk/hungary/artex/gdy ... -line.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[goonie]

A Twin-deck of Waddington's Frank Meadow Sutcliffe cards. One pack opened. One unopened.
Notice the card colouring is intentional.

Two Twin-decks of Shakespeare themed cards.
One is by Waddingtons.
The other by PIATNIK. I took photos of these cards because they were quite interesting.

[goonie]

The rest of the PIATNIK Shakespeare deck:

[goonie]

A Russell Gladstone twin-deck. Date not sure.

An Arrco twin-deck with torero bull-fight backs. Heavy use.

[goonie]

Some rather large PIATNIK Magic cards.

And a copy of Morden's playing cards showing English counties from 1676. Reprinted in 1972.

[goonie]

A pack of De La Rue with a blue couer de lion back. Well used.

[goonie]

A 40 card PIATNIK Milanese Triplex Deck.

Each suit has a King, Queen, Jack and numbers 1-7.

Anyone know why this deck has only 40 cards??

[Jock1971]

Hi there Mat.
I must say your father`s taste in cards was excellent, much the same as mine. It`s unfortunate that you do not share his enthusiasm. i understand from your introduction that you would like as much information on the cards so you can hopefully sell the decks and get the best price for them.
First off the Worshipful decks. the Olympiad deck threw me a bit there as almost all boxes from that period have the Gold inserts but as the picture of the box shows that is indeed an original.
These instillation packs were given out to members at there annual dinner on St Andrews day (30th Nov) The Doubles were given to those higher up in the company and the single those lower down the pecking order, new members etc.Not much can be said about your packs as everything is more or less on the packs .
The decks shown were all printed by De la rue (as you probably know it should say on the tax wrapper) and the print run for all three was 3500 packs each.
The festival of britain is quite nice as it shows a view from the south bank exhibition with structures such as the Dome of Discovery and the Skylon.
The 2 packs of Shakespeare cards. the Piatnik one can be seen in the European section of the Worldwide forum and has a bit of information you could use.
The Waddingtons on is dated 1964 (should show that on the plaque on the box) The ace is the standard Lace pattern and interestingly the courts for this pack are goodalls. Waddingtons used the Goodalls courts from 1955 only on their high end packs.Being partners with De la rue as "The amalgamated Playing card company" gave waddingtons access to these courts as De la rue aquired them through the takeover of Gooodalls in 1921.
Waddingtons later used the Goodalls courts on all their cards from 1972 onwards after they bought de la rues share in the amalgamated in 1969.
I have not seen the F Sutcliffe pack before (Shocking i know but it does happen) so thanks for showing that I`m very jealous you have it
Unfortunately the ace shown was used between 1975-1995 and the court used were the goodalls so acurate dateing is nigh on impossible. As it was commissioned by the curator of his Gallery maybe a bit of detective work on when the gallery was Opened or maybe an anniversary of some kind between these dates could date it better.
The next pack i can tell you about is the De La Rue . The Ace was the standard ace used Between 1862 and lasted till (with some minor variations) 1957 when a new design was produced for De la Rue`s 125th anniversary.
The wide courts with Large indices used can be dated to 1900 -1922. This pack shows a colour variant of the Standard 3 coloured courts . although the colour variant is less common than the standard coloured courts it should not be considered rare.
And last the Piatnik Milanesi. This is number 1953 of the piatnik range and was first produced in 1983 as the name suggests the courts are a variation of the "Milan Pattern".
The popularity of certain games in certain countries & regions far outweigh those games that need 52 cards. for example in Spain games such as Briscoloa, Escoba & Scopa are very popular and those games only need 40 cards which your pack caters for. some packs have only 32 cards in and some packs have more than a hundred.
I have a Double standard 52 card pack that has been used for the game Bezique Which requires 64 cards (2 packs of 32) and therefore all the low numbers up to 7 are mint and all the high cards are all well used .

Well thats about it i hope any of this information is useful to you , and i look forward to see more of the collection if that is at all possible.
-jase-

[goonie]

Hi Jase,

Glad to see you enjoyed them. I was fascinated by your collection too. My father would be green with envy.

Hi there Mat.
I understand from your introduction that you would like as much information on the cards so you can hopefully sell the decks and get the best price for them.
-jase-

I am not entirely sure yet. You have to understand, my father gathered a lot of collections, antique tools #1, cards, magic. When he passed we downsized from 7000ft2 to 2000ft2 so a lot of it had to go. My garage had more tools than most branches of Home depot. My mother and father's collections took a toll on our family especially after his passing. When my father became ill one of his many regrets was spending time on his hobbies and not on his family. He was always a very busy man...When we came home from school, he went to work...And when he came home he played with his hoard.

Now while I have fond memories when I look through my father's collection I question how much it all really means to me. How much is enough? Do I want to continue where my father left off? Gather more? Or should I downsize?

I do enjoy collecting. As I am a carpenter, I have my own collections of antique tools. I have a small collection of skateboards, and I am fascinated by cards and magic. My daughter (8) loves magic too. Lately when I bring out my cards and magic she is fascinated. Every time I teach her a trick she has to show everyone she knows.

The dilemma I have is that the more time I spend researching my father's cards and magic, the more I get the bug. The more I discover the more I enjoy it. Then I remember all the regrets my father had and hope that I do not have the same regrets down the line.

I guess you could say...To hoard or not to hoard? That is the question.

Knowing my personality, give me 6 months and I will buying and trading cards just like my father did. I think I am already taking way too much interest. I guess if it brings me and my daughter closer then it can't be bad right? Anyone know if there is Card Collectors Anonymous? lol

Anyone else confused? I think I am...

I am perhaps considering slimming down my vintage card collection to start collecting some modern decks which as of know I show more interest in. Time will tell...

Thanks so much for all the info Jase.

I will post some more of my collection and hopefully put some in the worldwide section when I find time.

[Mike Ratledge]

The Worshipful Masters are always interesting, and seldom change hands any more due to the nature of how (mostly) distributed. I am not certain, but the one with four indices looks like CartaMundi decks I have found, if Jace doesn't know a British deck, we are likely not going to be helpful, he almost always can find pictures from the makers catalogues.

We were just talking about how ashamed it is that there is no good reference for them - or at least not one we know about. I bet there is a musty old book somewhere, but I keep finding naught.

Maybe Dazz can help? I believe that she has at least the first two volumes of the CartaMundi reference books. #3 is next to impossible to find even used, as I recall.

[goonie]

Hi Mike, Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

I am not certain, but the one with four indices looks like CartaMundi decks I have found, if Jace doesn't know a British deck, we are likely not going to be helpful, he almost always can find pictures from the makers catalogues.

I know I can probably date them more closely because they came from a POL Ship that my father used to work on which was early in his career. Which ship I couldn't tell you, but I know my mother could. I will ask her when she gets back from vacation. It would have been in the 50's or early 60's I am guessing. Yes, with 4 indices they do look very CartaMundi, hopefully someone can confirm that. I found reference to them here, but no information is given.

http://www.playingcards-j-n.com/shippin ... Lines.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will be posting more pictures this week. Check back for more and thanks again. Enjoy.

[dazzleguts]

Please do post some decks to the WorldWide goonie

Since CartaMundi has only been around since 1970 they couldn't be the printer for a deck made in the 50s or 60s. It's possible either Biermans, Brepols or Van Genechten, the companies who merged to form CartaMundi, could have printed these. Perhaps it was even a Polish company. By the way I love the graphics of the POL backs, and the blue couer de lion back.

Unfortunately I don't have any reference books for Carta Mundi. I think you are thinking of the Fournier Museum Catalogue Mike?

I myself have doubts about this activity of collecting. It seems to feed off our old hunter/gatherer instincts and can be very compelling. It has sometimes stolen time and energy from other areas of my life so I understand how your father may have finally felt, and your own misgivings.

I have had to shut down most of my actual collecting lately, and only pick up thrift store decks, to be easier on my finances. I thought it would give me more time as well but I was pulled into the DataBase project and can't abandon the WorldWide, or UC. Also now spend time catching up on dates and other background information for the decks I already have.

A couple of the good points of collecting are this strong community of like minded people to share with, and the beauty and interest in the cards themselves.

My recommendation is to use a timer, and limit yourself to an hour at a time. So far that has helped me to have limits and feel better about the whole thing. Am over my time right now so I should go.
Be seeing you.

[Jock1971]

Hi mat.


i had a nosey about looking for those Polish Ocean Lines decks and found these from the company Artex of Budapest http://www.wopc.co.uk/hungary/artex/gdy ... -line.html

Seeing these i went to the Hungary section of WWPCM and found your cards at
a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02957/d02957.htm

Hope this helps

-jase-

[goonie]

Wow thanks again for the information you guys.

Please do post some decks to the WorldWide goonie

I will be getting to some this week for sure...Hopefully I can be of help to fill those galleries. With a lot of my trick decks being European I was wondering where I should put them...In the magic section or in worldwide? Thanks in advance.

...this activity of collecting. It seems to feed off our old hunter/gatherer instincts and can be very compelling. It has sometimes stolen time and energy from other areas of my life so I understand how your father may have finally felt, and your own misgivings.

Isn't that for sure...Usually I have to schedule my time very carefully. I am pretty good at keeping my wife and daughter (8) happy but finding time for myself can be difficult. Bear in mind that my wife is from China, where we met. She was brought up in a very small town (pop. 500,000+ lol) where collecting would not have been part of their culture. Her family are relatively wealthy by Chinese standards but live a very frugal life. They don't waste anything, don't throw things away until something is truly on it's last legs. The old Chairman Mao philosophy* of not flaunting wealth does still remain there in small cities and towns. My point being, even after 12 happy years of marriage she still lives by the philosophy of: 'If you don't really need it don't buy it.'

*note: I am well read on Chairman Mao and realize that he did not actually live the frugal life that the Chinese were led to believe. "The private life of Chairman Mao" written by his private Physician was an eye-opening read. Nevertheless she was raised by a family who revered him. Surprisingly, most people still do in China. I am pretty sure if her parent's knew what we spent every month they would be mortified. You get my point. lol

Personally, I am one of those guys who has always been overly inquisitive, who reads something interesting in the news or on a forum then spends the rest of the day researching it. I get compelled to soak up as much knowledge as I can.

Lately time is one of the few things I do have on my hands. Late November I was rear-ended at 60km/h+ by a full-sized pick-up. I am a carpenter so I haven't been working since it happened. I have serious soft-tissue damage to my neck and shoulder and I am currently awaiting an MRI for my neck! Thankfully my family weren't in the car. Definitely not a great year. Time though, I do have.

Thanks again for the research you did. Much appreciated.

Unfortunately I don't have any reference books for Carta Mundi. I think you are thinking of the Fournier Museum Catalogue Mike?

Unfortunately my father's card book collection was given to a close friend of his. The only book I have left is titled "Playing Cards" by W. Gurney Bentham in hardback. It's a simplified history of playing cards with colour illustrations. If it tickles anyone's fancy. Let me know.

Hi mat. i had a nosey about looking for those Polish Ocean Lines decks and found these from the company Artex of Budapest http://www.wopc.co.uk/hungary/artex/gdy ... -line.html

Seeing these i went to the Hungary section of WWPCM and found your cards at
a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02957/d02957.htm

Hope this helps

-jase-

Sure does Jase.

Thanks again for the research. You are a pillar of wisdom, or as we say in the UK "a smart-arse". (Please excuse my British humour, I could never keep my gob shut. lol)

It's great to see what the cards look like finally. I have been wanting to open that pack since I knee high!

I will add the links to my original post so people can link to them more easily.

I will be posting some more pictures later today. Hope you guys like them.

[dazzleguts]

Sorry to hear of the accident. Monster trucks are very intimidating as it is without being rammed by one. Hope your MRI helps in the healing.

There isn't really a section in UC specifically for posting images of magic cards, unless you are doing a trick video for the magic and cardistry section.

There's at least one fanning deck in the WorldWide already, the Skittles Fanning Deck designed by magician Yutaka Kikuchi (Japan), so magic decks are certainly welcome. It's less about the specific use of the deck and more about the graphics and/or historical context. No hard and fast rules but try to show the back, courts, identifying ace, and a few pip cards.

[goonie]

There isn't really a section in UC specifically for posting images of magic cards, unless you are doing a trick video for the magic and cardistry section.

There's at least one fanning deck in the WorldWide already, the Skittles Fanning Deck designed by magician Yutaka Kikuchi (Japan), so magic decks are certainly welcome. It's less about the specific use of the deck and more about the graphics and/or historical context. No hard and fast rules but try to show the back, courts, identifying ace, and a few pip cards.

Thanks. I will post them in the worldwide time machine. I should have some time tomorrow.

[Harinam]

The case for the Shakespeare inspired deck by Waddington is ridiculously good. I don't think I have seen anything like it. Btw is that leather on top of it with a "polished metal?" seal?

[goonie]

The case for the Shakespeare inspired deck by Waddington is ridiculously good. I don't think I have seen anything like it. Btw is that leather on top of it with a "polished metal?"

Thanks. I like it too. I remember buying them for my dad when I was a kid visiting Stratford Upon Avon with my school (Long ago! lol). Unfortunately though, it is faux faux leather. And the seal, which is a very thin is a stamped foil that has been sprayed to make it look old, is also falling off and I had to bent it back into shape, losing some of it's form. I agree nevertheless, they do look nice together.

I will definitely be posting more pics of my collection today and this weekend.

Hope you enjoy them...