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After reading this update:

"The great news is Bicycle lowered their minimum order of decks from 2,500 to 1,000! Yes 1,000 minimum order from Bicycle! It has been years since Bicycle was offering low min orders! I had to wait until Bicycle made it official before I could release this information. The great news is that the low minimum order allows me to provide what my customers were asking for and that is a Bicycle Branded Deck!"


I messaged Tiffany in the custom department, and she confirmed.


"Wow news travels fast lol yes it's true!! I'll likely regret it since I'll be working around the clock now lol"


This is going to get crazy...


CBJ


.

The big question is if the cost/deck will also change much. Clearly those selling will raise prices based on perceived rarity alone, but if they are also getting charged more per deck vs the 2.5k grouping then prices may really shoot up.

I welcome more choices, but will just have to work hard to being selective.

Exactly, the main issue now is that now much will the decks cost, the setup costs are gonna be much higher per deck. Its not gonna be a game changer if the increase in costs are going to be in excess of 50%, if that were the case, I could have printed 2500 decks and pretended to only have a thousand decks.

I'm interested in the costs as well, and to see if designers who wanted to make their decks rare will return to Bicycle to do their printing instead of Legends.

I'm thinking about USPC as a printer now - before (from an artist POV) I had little interest in producing 2500 of any one design. I still have no interest in Bicycle branding, but that might change with time when the marketing & finance voices in my head ever get my attention.

Tiffany kindly sent me updated price sheets, and here are the preliminary quotes for 1,000 and 2,500 deck orders. Note: this does not include other setup fees and taxes, and all quotes are dependent on artwork:

Custom Branded:
1,000 decks: $4.22 per deck
2,500 decks: $2.92 per deck

Custom Non-Branded
1,000 decks: $3.42 per deck
2,500 decks: $2.08 per deck

Nice hefty per deck premium to pay for short runs, especially since setup fees are now spread among fewer decks too... looking at nearly $4.25 per deck once USPC setup fees are added in... then there is fulfillment, marketing/advertising, paying the artist, fix expenses of running a biz, misc. fees (KS, payment, etc.) and taxes. USPC's move is not going to lower the prices of decks any... if anything, the current prices for non-USPC short run decks just got justified and reinforced.

So roughly $1.50 more for deck costs, figure in at least that or more for the project owner and/or artist profit, plus perceived value premium in rarity these could easily be asked for in the $15 range without shipping. I'll say right now, that's way too much unless there are LOTS of premium features. I have a feeling there will be even more unfunded projects in the future if this becomes too popular.

The percentage of funded card projects has dropped noticeably since I first started following such things... and dropped quite a bit as of late. You pretty much know whether a project is going to fund within the first week of the campaign with very few exceptions. It currently is not a friendly space for a not known deck artist trying to swing a low or high volume USPC Bicycle branded deck right now.

I went through a rollercoaster with this one.
First I thought bad news- "Oh great, now designers will hike up prices even more due to rarity, etc."
My next thought was good news- "Actually, due to the low run, more KS decks will be Bicycle-branded (a plus in my book)."
But my final thought was this- "Wait- do I really want a deck that has to print such a low run in order to get funded? If the deck were a good one, it would have no problem raising the usual amount of money to get funded."

So overall I don't think this will change what I decide to spend my money on. But time will tell.

vasta41 wrote:I went through a rollercoaster with this one.
First I thought bad news- "Oh great, now designers will hike up prices even more due to rarity, etc."
My next thought was good news- "Actually, due to the low run, more KS decks will be Bicycle-branded (a plus in my book)."
But my final thought was this- "Wait- do I really want a deck that has to print such a low run in order to get funded? If the deck were a good one, it would have no problem raising the usual amount of money to get funded."

So overall I don't think this will change what I decide to spend my money on. But time will tell.

Yeah, I think I'd rather have a few exceptions of good decks not funding than a bunch of bad-to-average decks being funded. That'll just inflate the bubble more, and God knows we don't need that.

What this SHOULD mean is a non-limited project can have a lower initial funding goal and then later on add more stretch goal features since moving to 2,500 lowers the cost. Of course they will have to state up front to satisfy those who would be upset if it goes from a 1k to 2.5k printing, but it could end up being positive in some cases. It's possible we may just get more variety along with better quality, that is provided they don't price it at the 1k mark and never add any features and just charge a ton...then I guess they just won't fund.

My fear: More and more variations of the same deck (with high price) because all these edition are "ultra-limited". I'm a bit tired of that. But this is a good new if the market doesn't go that way.

Sooo approx $3500 for a 1k non branded run vs approx 5250 for a 2.5k print run. This is no game changer, and tsunamis are not happening. At these prices I can now officially claim a 1k print run, whilst having a ton of uncuts to sell at jacked up prices, keeping a thousand decks in secret and officially selling the other thousand and end up with more decks at a higher profit. Well, not like that hasn't been done before, but now no one can suspect a thing.

volantangel wrote:Exactly, the main issue now is that now much will the decks cost, the setup costs are gonna be much higher per deck. Its not gonna be a game changer if the increase in costs are going to be in excess of 50%, if that were the case, I could have printed 2500 decks and pretended to only have a thousand decks.

Very good points. I am sure that competition from LPCC and EPCC is the reason for this change. I am hoping that for that same reason the try to keep the costs sane.

Emmanuel wrote:Tiffany kindly sent me updated price sheets, and here are the preliminary quotes for 1,000 and 2,500 deck orders. Note: this does not include other setup fees and taxes, and all quotes are dependent on artwork:

Custom Branded:
1,000 decks: $4.22 per deck
2,500 decks: $2.92 per deck

Custom Non-Branded
1,000 decks: $3.42 per deck
2,500 decks: $2.08 per deck

What you have to realize about these prices is that this is for a BARE Bones no meat and potatoes deck. Peoples standards and most of all Wallets are so tight right now that you better hit it out of the park for it to make sense for people to spend the cash. I printed up to 5-6K decks with the Fed part IIs and my per deck prices were higher than $4.22 per deck.

You print a equvalent deck to: Feds, Origins, Zenith, Empire at these numbers you will honestly push +$10 per deck price and thats the production cost.

I don't think this will help more projects get funded as a run of 1000 decks will cost pretty close to 2500. Sure we can copy and paste quotes and emails from USPCC but it will ALWAYS cost more and. Designers are going to have to rethink the "limited Edition" concept to stay viable and competitive. The fad and luster of LTDs is fading but the industry will go on so something will have to change, and the quality expected will not be going down.

I also agree with nECr0MaNCeD, this is def a play by USPCC to win back a ton of the biz they lost to EPCC and Legends. But whole fast to the simple truth that USPCC isn't making less money with this move.

I think it will have an effect, but not as whats being speculated on. I may be wrong, but I don't think we'll see a whole lot of 1,000 run USPCC loaded to the nines one off decks. 1,000 deck recolors though... I think so and probably quite a few.

My only concern now is that this will cause more people to attempt to create decks and back up USPCC more than it is now. Here lately it seems as though most decks fall 2-3 months behind, partly from USPCC being backlogged.

I can understand that the more extras you add, the more each deck will cost but you can set a low funding goal and add perks through stretch goals which will also be lower. Like Jackson said, it may end up costing +$10 a deck, so you're still looking at $10-12k versus $20-30k.

As someone said above, there are gonna be a lot of over priced decks(due to low volume), a lot of unfunded decks(due to so many attempting to create decks), and a General loss of collecting losing heart due to both of the above. This is a terrible time as I see the collector card market bubble getting very close to popping.

Emmanuel wrote:Tiffany kindly sent me updated price sheets, and here are the preliminary quotes for 1,000 and 2,500 deck orders. Note: this does not include other setup fees and taxes, and all quotes are dependent on artwork:

Custom Branded:
1,000 decks: $4.22 per deck
2,500 decks: $2.92 per deck

Custom Non-Branded
1,000 decks: $3.42 per deck
2,500 decks: $2.08 per deck

Nice to know branded decks are still hovering around .80 extra per deck. Does anyone know if the Bee minimum of 5000 decks is lowered? I can't justify asking the question. I'm sure they are going to get swapped with questions now and from future 1000 deck orders. I'm sure we will see a surge in Bicycle branded 1000 LE decks and of course next summer we will see a surge of more Kickstarters. What is the average now 30. I do see more creative flexibility with Kickstarter stretch goals and lower starting goals. You can start off with 1000 and if your deck sells you can bump it to a 2,500 run then maybe Bee stock. I'm thinking all 1000 LE decks need to be numbered in some way. Or in the future you might hear about that storage locker with extra decks that no one knew about.

I'm sure USPC's 10% overage thingie is still in effect, so 1,100 decks will be delivered on a 1,000 deck order... how many project creators are going to put the overage in the dumpster to make sure a 1,000 deck LE is really that?

Tiffany sent me an email this evening that the USPCC's approval to change the minimum order to 1,000 decks was premature. They are hoping to offer it soon, but they need to gather more information and postpone the change in minimum orders. She also attached the following document:

Well that sucks for Rongo Rongo 2.

badpete69 wrote:Project now cancelled

Hi BackersBackers,

First of all a huge thank you for staying around after update #10; I am humbled by such a vote of confidence and I am truly grateful to see such support.

A few days ago USPCC revised their long standing policy of minimum requirements from 2,500 decks to 1,000 decks. That changes everything. Projects like this one, which required $8.5K per one deck just to break-even, can now be moved back to the USA and printed at their state-of-the-art facilities.

There are many card collectors who expressed their interest in our decks but they only collect USPCC decks. I hope to see them backing this project in the future.

It is too late to reset this campaign to USPCC. We are going to suspend this campaign and we will come back, for the very last time, on October 7th with RongoRongo 3 printed by USPCC, including Bicycle branding, with a lower pledge goal.

If we are successful, we will all enjoy the highest quality cards from USPCC; if not, it will not be for the lack of trying.

My deepest thanks to Mike Kabala, our BIRDMAN, for his great sense of humor and his support for this campaign. The craftsmanship of his wooden boxes is truly amazing.

I hope to see you back in 2 weeks.

Thank you
Tomas

Coat of arms deck is gonna be in a pinch as well..

And this:


I'm no longer a backer and can't retract what I just said 5 days ago. I lost all credibility if I do a rebacker. This sucks. I looks like he has 2 designs at 2500 decks each. His goal does not reflect that.

volantangel wrote:Coat of arms deck is gonna be in a pinch as well..

Yea, ouch. I wonder what Justin will do about this latest development. The Bronze Age deck is unlocked because of the lower minimum order as I understood it.

Oh, man. That's a gut punch.

Fes wrote:

volantangel wrote:Coat of arms deck is gonna be in a pinch as well..

Yea, ouch. I wonder what Justin will do about this latest development. The Bronze Age deck is unlocked because of the lower minimum order as I understood it.

I think he mentioned something about having a business partner. So he still has that working for him hopefully.

Yashi wrote:

Fes wrote:

volantangel wrote:Coat of arms deck is gonna be in a pinch as well..

Yea, ouch. I wonder what Justin will do about this latest development. The Bronze Age deck is unlocked because of the lower minimum order as I understood it.

I think he mentioned something about having a business partner. So he still has that working for him hopefully.

Dont think so, he mentioned that he is able to do this, because of the 1k run

sprouts1115 wrote:And this:


I'm no longer a backer and can't retract what I just said 5 days ago. I lost all credibility if I do a rebacker.

Screenshot 2014-09-23 19.44.39.png

This sucks. I looks like he has 2 designs at 2500 decks each. His goal does not reflect that.

What the hell does Sawdust have to do with this?

DragonSoul wrote:Oh, man. That's a gut punch.

It's worse than a gut punch... it's a below the belt punch.