Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher"!

Find out about the latest and greatest playing cards hitting the market.
User avatar
Mike Ratledge
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5496
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:25 pm
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
White Whale: OG USPCC Vanity Fair [mint]
Decks Owned: 7800
Location: Awendaw/McClellanville (Charleston county) S.C.
Has thanked: 1911 times
Been thanked: 760 times

Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher"!

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

NOTICE: If you were redirected here from "CardLauncher.com" or other web URL, this is my forums, and not associated with CL, but here is the discussion about the coming website "CardLauncher.com", a CrowdFunding site for Playing Card Decks and related project. Feel free to read all you want, but in order to comment you must register on the site first. UC is an independent and unbiased website, and we don't want people to take sides, but this is the place to learn about what is getting ready to happen.
CL_color_logo_large.jpg
CL_color_logo_large.jpg (146.72 KiB) Viewed 17763 times
I've been holding this as long as I could, but it's time to 'come clean' and announce it publicly.

Executive Summary to avoid the "TL;DR" comments: "CardLauncher" - a website for CrowdFunding Playing Card Decks and related project will be available around the 1st of August and have a plethora of the biggest names in the business from "day 1". For details, read on.

I have formed a corporation or LLC = "Limited Liability Company" partnership with several people in the industry, and we are preparing to launch a new website that will be a CrowdFunding site for Playing Card Decks and related products. I can't post details of who is involved just yet, but let's just say if you've been following what I do and say here none of them will be a big surprise, but the BIG surprise is that we will be going head-to-head with you-know-who in the marketplace. We are going to be hosted on the Amazon Cloud Services platform, and operate with PayPal as our exclusive payment processor and payment partner. Being on ACS means that on "Day One" we are automatically infinitely scalable, meaning that we can handle from 1 to 1,000,000 people at a time without a problem, and I think that's key to the success of the venture.

The financial backers ("equity stakeholders") in the corporation don't all want to be publicly known at this time, although I can tell you that both Lotrek and Lorenzo are in this at a 10% equity stake in the company. Beyond that I can only say that someone sitting very close to me believes in it enough to fund a 25% equity stake (my wife, Donna Romine - she uses her maiden name everywhere online) and she's a member here but has never really participated much - yet), and I own a 30% equity stake myself, so just doing the math you can easily figure out that there is only another 25% to be spoken for. I'm waiting on that one key person to decide if they want all or only part of that equity position, until tomorrow afternoon, and then I have three other people that want to buy in at the 5% or 10% level that I will offer that portion to if it's not already sold.

Beyond that, we have partnered up with Bill Kalush and Expert Playing Card Co for production, and four fulfillment centers: Lake Michigan Mailers (Kalamazoo), Kings Wild Fulfillment (Memphis), KPak (part of Gambler's Warehouse, Dallas area) and Pacful (Rancho Cordero CA) still hasn't been heard from, but they are supposed to be the fourth shipping partner. That being said, unlike the other effort we are seeing burst into flames and crash & burn right now we OFFER those services, but do NOT require them, so deck artists/designers and project managers are free to go outside of our partners, but we encourage that for the sake of the backers they do not. I have also negotiated a partnership with Jamie D Grant to offer his "Impossible Bottles" on a company-wide basis to any project/campaign that wants them (minimum of 6 bottles required), at a very good company discount, which of course is being passed along to the projects. Before anyone goes accusing me of playing favorites, I offered USPCC ("Bicycle" brand) to do the same thing, but never heard back from them, and of course as I have already stated, you can have whomever you wish do your production, but Bill & Expert PCC will be providing quotes to anyone and everyone that wants them, and is our default production partner in this venture. If someone wants to use MPC, Carti Mundi, Lemon (Britain), or whatever, they are free to do so, with certain restrictions. You cannot offer something that you cannot prove to use you have to sell, and you cannot offer something on CardLauncher.com that is already being CrowdFunded elsewhere or sold already, simply because I'm not willing to set myself, partners or the company up for a lawsuit with you-know-who.

The projected timeline is for the completion of the software customization to be done in 3-to-4 weeks, and I am offering that contract on Monday, after interviewing the final two vendors left out of seven potential CrowdFunding providers today and tomorrow. Both of them offer ACS hosting for an additional $500/month, which sounds high, but understand that part about the infinitely scalable part - without us having to do anything, or move our hosting or change packages. I think it's a bargain myself! Quotes for hosting it on other services were coming in around $200-$250 with no scalability built in. If I needed to double the horsepower, I was looking at $300-$350/month (and it just went up from there). ACS gives us unlimited bandwidth and unlimited storage, both distributed and replicated around the US and the world. ACS is a very resilient system that historically provides more than 99.7% uptime over the past two years, and we have SLAs ("Service Level Agreements") to recover costs if they are down more than 1/2 of 1% of the time, or any more than 3 1/2 hours per month. At this time, they have been online without interruption for more than 6 months with one two hour exception.

We modeled our business paradigm off the one you are already familiar with, and we take a 5% "off the top" fee from each funded project, with no cost for hosting projects. Funded projects managers/artists/designers - unlike you-know-who - are restricted from running another campaign/project until they have substantially fulfilled the previous project's backer rewards, except in certain cases where they can show a proven track record of repeated fulfillment without problems, so people like Jackson Robinson, ColectiblePlayingCards and the other "big boys" in the business are exempt from that rule except that they cannot go more than "two deep" at one time, in other words even they cannot launch a 3rd project unless the second previous one has been fulfilled. We have a great team of people here that will be helping with the startup of the website, including all of the mods and specifically Jay ("CBJ"), Pierre (badpete69), (Allan) Rousselle, Sher (Garcia), Kai ("volantangel") and others, but those five people plus myself and my wife will be overseeing the project approvals, serve as artist/designer Ambassadors, provide deck design and advice services, and similar duties. Lorenzo Gaggiotti and Lotrek are also in here serving as graphics artists for logos, branding, advertising copy, etc. - and of course, as always, everyone here at UC will always be the front line for free advice and design help, just like always. The question has come up: "What happens to ownership of UC?" Quite simply - nothing. I still own it free and clear, it's associated with the company, but not owned by it, nor will it ever be. Along with "FriendsOfUC" we will continue to provide the best forums worldwide for "All Things Playing Cards"! (for free - registration required only to participate in contests or create posts, as always)

This thread has been marked "Sticky" for 45 days so it will stay "in your face" for a while, but just to be clear - it will be another ten days or maybe two weeks before the website even starts collecting email names, and at this point if you try to go there you are simply redirected here. "MailChimp" is our email provider/partner. I will make another announcement when it is ready to start collecting names, when it is ready for beta testing (apply to me by PM - WHEN I ASK - NOT YET!) and when it goes "live" around the 1st of August or sooner - as long as we are certain that we have worked out all the bugs. I already have commitments from four of the biggest names in the business to launch projects on the first day, and I expect to have two more by the end of next week. It's going to be a gradual build-up, just to insure that we have worked all the kinks out of that aspect as well, adding maybe 6 new projects every week until we get to the end of the first month, and then likely unlocking it totally. If you are a project manager, artist or designer, expect things to basically work the same way you are used to doing, including building the project, submitting it for approval, being able to launch it when you want to, and providing updates to the backers as well as a running commentary system just like everybody is used to having. We're not going to provide everybody with the "in your face" type information that a recent "competitor" has - that I consider intrusive, like how much you have pledged, etc. Backers will be able to modify or cancel their pledges at will, of course - and we have a couple of tricks up our sleeve as always.

"Stay tuned!" I have already unlocked the flood gate and I thought I used to get email, but I'm fielding upwards of 250 message per day already - and I haven't publicly announced anything to this point. Please keep in mind that I am still only one person, and it's possible that you might not hear back from me personally like everybody is used to at this point, but I'm going to try to keep up - it simply might not be possible, even I have to sleep 4 or 5 hours per day.

Read on, you'll find that CL has "guaranteed delivery", shipping broken out for all backers with US, Canada
+ Mexico and "other" ("International") shipping, etc. All production and fulfillment costs are kept in escrow to eliminate fraudulent projects
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
THE Playing Card Database Online
Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
ddorn
Member
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:36 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by ddorn »

Congrats to all involved! I'll say what I say to every soon-to-be parent of a new baby, "Get your sleep now, cause you're going to need it, once this baby arrives!"
User avatar
SBurk49
Member
Member
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:03 am
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
Decks Owned: 300
Location: Bryan, TX
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by SBurk49 »

I appreciate the bold yellow font Mike.

I know you were thinking of me. lol

But I DID in fact read on for details. Friggin PHENOMENAL work man. Excited to see where this goes.
"Cards are war, in disguise of a sport."
User avatar
Mike Ratledge
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5496
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:25 pm
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
White Whale: OG USPCC Vanity Fair [mint]
Decks Owned: 7800
Location: Awendaw/McClellanville (Charleston county) S.C.
Has thanked: 1911 times
Been thanked: 760 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

ddorn wrote:Congrats to all involved! I'll say what I say to every soon-to-be parent of a new baby, "Get your sleep now, cause you're going to need it, once this baby arrives!"
Thanks! A lot of work has gone on behind the scenes on this idea - for almost 6 months, now. I did my homework, did it again, and went back and retraced my steps a third time to insure that I get it all right the first time - on execution!
SBurk49 wrote:I appreciate the bold yellow font Mike.

I know you were thinking of me. lol

But I DID in fact read on for details. Friggin PHENOMENAL work man. Excited to see where this goes.
Darn it, Burk! That was just for you, too! :roll: Actually, I'm not surprised, and I figure a lot of people will be reading it shortly. I do things big, it seems, and this one is a monster... :mrgreen:
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
THE Playing Card Database Online
Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
User avatar
decibelhz
Member
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:54 pm
Cardist: Yes
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
Location: CALIFORNIA
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 20 times
Contact:

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by decibelhz »

Best of luck to you and your partners Mike. I'm excited to see what's in store for us!
User avatar
rjtomlinson1977
✔ VERIFIED Designer
✔ VERIFIED Designer
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:34 am
Decks Owned: 15
Location: LeRoy, PA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 116 times
Contact:

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by rjtomlinson1977 »

Sounds great!! I wish the best for you Mike. You're turning into a major player within the card community. Soon we'll be kissing your ring and calling you the Godfather (like Don Corleone). :lol:
But seriously... I'm sure you'll do way better then *the other guys*
Barclay Mountains Co.
User avatar
Cbkimble
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2325
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:16 am
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
Decks Owned: 363
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 250 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Cbkimble »

I wish you luck. Look forward to seeing what you have created.
Wilko
Member
Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:42 pm
Cardist: Yes
Collector: Yes
Decks Owned: 600
Location: UK
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Wilko »

Really looking forward to how this pans out.
I'm fully supportive of it. If I could get involved in any way I'd love to help & be a small part of things. Even if it's just beta testing!
Good luck and I'll be keeping my ears to the ground for this.
User avatar
wwpierce
Member
Member
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:37 am
Collector: Yes
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by wwpierce »

Wow!!

The biggest problem I see is this:
"I already have commitments from four of the biggest names in the business to launch projects on the first day"

My poor bank account.. :o.. :lol:

Super excited though.. good work Mike!
User avatar
Godzillian
Member
Member
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:21 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Godzillian »

I think this is the biggest news for the hobby this year. It especially helps when you have a lot of big names backing you. I'm sure we can all see that this has been planned thoroughly and thoughtfully. Best of luck to Mike + others. If this works out, this'll be a monumental period in hobby history. :D

*insert obligatory wallet comment here*
User avatar
lolo
Member
Member
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:40 am
Collector: Yes
Location: FR, NANTES

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by lolo »

Great news and congrats ! Can't wait the launch...

Just a question about Paypal : do we have to open a paypal account or could we pay directly with credit card whatever your country is **and** without a paypal account ?
My collection
The French Touch with english grammatical errors copyrighted by myself
User avatar
shadowkat
Member
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:01 am
Cardist: Yes
Collector: Yes
Magician: Yes

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by shadowkat »

Congratulations! This is exciting news. You have my support.
Becky C
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 12:49 pm
Collector: Yes
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Becky C »

This is an exciting development. I hope the projects that launch on day 1 will have staggered end days :lol: :drool:
User avatar
Widdee
Member
Member
Posts: 995
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:35 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Widdee »

Fantastic news Mike! Looking forward to seeing it shake out.
User avatar
vasta41
Card Oracle
Card Oracle
Posts: 5706
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Has thanked: 1557 times
Been thanked: 1687 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by vasta41 »

I can't wait to see what this is all about! Mike- thank you time and again for being the catalyst who pushes the bounds of this forum. And your wife too! It must be nice to have a significant other who embraces this hobby as well as she seems to ::leers over at fiancé:: :arrow: ;)
User avatar
sinjin7
Member
Member
Posts: 1485
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:17 pm
Cardist: Yes
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
Decks Owned: 1500
Location: California
Has thanked: 755 times
Been thanked: 985 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by sinjin7 »

I was wondering why you were slamming Deckstarter & D$D so hard (not that its difficult to slam D$D), but this explains the additional venom you had for Deckstarter. This also explains your promotion and defense of EPCC. A word to the wise, just be more subtle about things, and ditch the cloak and daggers secrecy and just be transparent right from the start.

I like this venture and I will support it, but I'll throw out some words of caution (I am an attorney, after all). The big giant is Kickstarter, they have the biggest and broadest audience (ie, your target demographic). Your model is just a niche version of Kickstarter, but with PayPal instead of Amazon. Your other competitor in this space is more like an irritating fungal infection rather than a giant, but D$D is a competitor nonetheless. Yes, we all know they screwed the pooch with their first two Deckstarter decks, but both projects will ultimately fund (scrupulously or unscrupulously) and they will continue on. Their misguided test drive was with 2 decks already in existence, but their future offerings will fit the true crowdfunding model Kickstarter and CardLauncher have. So this space has quickly become crowded.

How are you going to set yourself apart? Why wouldn't I use Kickstarter instead? They are more established. They have the power of a much larger and broader audience and target demographic. They won't try to push me to use EPCC (please don't claim we have the choice to use whoever we want - you're clearly pushing EPCC and now we know why). Why isn't KS my greatest chance of success and making money? Hell, why wouldn't I use Deckstarter? The Bucks are well-known and pioneers of magic and cardistry. They beat you to the punch so now you're third in line as far as crowd funding for playing cards is concerned. And despite their indisputable shadiness, they have a big, hard-core fan base that will follow D$D through the gates of hell no matter how badly the twins behave. KS and D$ are formidable competition, and I haven't even mentioned HOPC, who will either have to change their model to a crowdfunding platform or become obsolete, so this is another potential source of competition. I bring these points up not for the purpose of trying to burst your bubble or to make you fail, its the exact opposite - I really want this to succeed, because if it does, it benefits me as a collector to have multiple strong options.

I would advise (again, the attorney thing) to make sure your site is well organized and well designed. Being cloud based is all good and fine, but if your site is buggy and crap, all that means is a bunch of us will be getting nowhere fast. Look at D$D, in their rush to come out faster, their site is not intuitively set up and a pain to navigate. Encourage reasonable and responsible pricing. If I see a bunch of $20+ decks initially on CardLauncher, I'm going to lose interest FAST. You may want to start out with well respected and established deck designers initially to insure CardLauncher gets off to a good start, but I want to see up and coming new talent and unknowns getting a shot. The spirit of crowdfunding is to give these types of people opportunities, its not to give the established fat cats de facto online stores.

And the most important suggestion is this: take out insurance to cover fraud! If someone runs a campaign that turns out to be a scam, take ownership, man-up and take responsibility. Don't run and hide behind obscure and unenforceable by-laws like Kickstarter does and leave backers screwed out of money. A $10,000 to $15,000 policy of insurance should not be so prohibitively expensive that you cannot afford to offer this type of support and protection for your loyal customers and backers. THIS would definitely set you apart and above Kickstarter.

You can take or leave my criticisms and advice. Either way, I really do wish you the best of luck.
User avatar
Chantili
Member
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:12 pm
Cardist: Yes
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
Decks Owned: 0
Location: South Texas

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Chantili »

This is SO exciting!! I'm so happy to see all of you joining together to make this team. I know it will be great, and I can't wait to see the works of art that will be created! Congrats on this endeavor!
User avatar
Mike Ratledge
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5496
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:25 pm
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
White Whale: OG USPCC Vanity Fair [mint]
Decks Owned: 7800
Location: Awendaw/McClellanville (Charleston county) S.C.
Has thanked: 1911 times
Been thanked: 760 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

lolo wrote:Great news and congrats ! Can't wait the launch...

Just a question about Paypal : do we have to open a paypal account or could we pay directly with credit card whatever your country is **and** without a paypal account ?
Well, using PayPal allows us to be completely beyond the need to handle the money, and yes - you will have to have a PayPal account to fund your purchases. It's unavoidable, we have to have someone that takes that 'onus' off us, and PayPal is the logical choice, simply because they are worldwide and Amazon Payments is US only.

I'd like to be more flexible, but "WePay" is the only other funding option, and I'm not familiar with it enough to say it's usable.

Sinjin, I understand what you're saying and we definitely want to distinguish ourselves from the competition. I don't see D&D as competition, I see them as another failure - at least on the Deckstarter front, just like I said long ago - and it has nothing to do with what my plans are. It's just not a sustainable business paradigm. Have you seen their website's "Create" section? If you haven't, go read it: http://deckstarter.com/create. That's it, the whole darned thing. I wish I was kidding, but other than the option to give them your IP with the "Submit your art" button, that is it, literally.

The fact that I can't get USPCC to talk to me is a problem, I don't understand why when they are getting their lunch eaten they don't realize it's time to do something different. The fact remains the Expert is more responsive, more flexible, easier to use, better cost, better support, much better product (ask Rick Davidson how much money he left on the table using their "external tuck case provider" with his Origin/Grail decks!), and that's one of the biggest flies in the ointment: they are charging people more than 100% of what the cards themselves cost - by far - then the deck themselves for the tuck cases. Expert can provide better, more flexible tucks, better product, better look and feel, and better responsive support for 60% of close of the price. It just doesn't make sense. "Bicycle" bought everybody else that got in their way, why haven't they purchased this little piece of the puzzle that would allow them to compete on an even footing? I'm stumped! If ANYONE can tell me, I'd like to know. I think it's because they make money in some way off it, "I've been known to be wrong before", and I'm not pointing fingers nor am I making accusations, it just doesn't add up.

Now, of course I want Bill to succeed, don't be silly. It only makes sense to the industry. Letting one party control 70%+ of the industry is called a monopoly, and the Justice Department could (should?) look into it, frankly? They have thrown their weight around to the point that they have single-handedly pushed everybody out of the market simply by purchasing all of their competitors - until a few years ago.

The idea of buying fraud insurance for projects (i.e. "backer insurance" against fraud) is something that I NEED to do! Do you have a source for such a thing? It would be one thing that put us head and shoulders above the competition! I'm dead serious, now that you mention it I have been looking for something to be a differentiator for us, and this is it!
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
THE Playing Card Database Online
Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
User avatar
Sher
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:00 am
Collector: Yes
Decks Owned: 100
Location: Guam, United States
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Sher »

sinjin7 wrote: And despite their indisputable shadiness, they have a big, hard-core fan base that will follow D$D through the gates of hell no matter how badly the twins behave.
I used to think this was true, since the same sentiment has been mentioned several other times by different people, and they do have a large fan base. However, in regards to Deckstarter and playing cards, I don't think their fans have provided overwhelming support. If this was the case, then the two decks on Deckstarter should have funded quickly, and Exquisite Bold on Art of Play would have sold out already.
User avatar
Lotrek
✔ VERIFIED Designer
✔ VERIFIED Designer
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:39 am
Has thanked: 1452 times
Been thanked: 2057 times
Contact:

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Lotrek »

You can cheat on one person forever or you can cheat on many people for a while. But you cannot cheat on many people forever.
"Bite more than you can chew and then chew it"

----------------------------------------------------------
fb: https://www.facebook.com/oathplayingcards/
website: https://www.oathplayingcards.com/
twitter:@OathPCC
User avatar
sinjin7
Member
Member
Posts: 1485
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:17 pm
Cardist: Yes
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
Decks Owned: 1500
Location: California
Has thanked: 755 times
Been thanked: 985 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by sinjin7 »

Sher wrote:I used to think this was true, since the same sentiment has been mentioned several other times by different people, and they do have a large fan base. However, in regards to Deckstarter and playing cards, I don't think their fans have provided overwhelming support. If this was the case, then the two decks on Deckstarter should have funded quickly, and Exquisite Bold on Art of Play would have sold out already.
The two Deckstarter decks will fund quickly. Remember, their funding period is only 10 days, unlike the 30+ days you see on KS. If a KS deck funded within 10 days, most would consider that quick. Only the select few get their decks funded within a couple of days, so those are the exceptions. As for the Exquisite Bold, it is an experimental deck from EPCC. Most of D$D hard core fanboys are magicians and cardists rather than collectors. The Exquisite Bold is not particularly conducive to magicians, and definitely not cardists, so even the fanboys could not stomach the un-useable crap that is known as Exquisite Bold.

The point I was trying to make is that Deckstarter has a built in following, and they are not going to stop after their first two disasters, they will be competitors in the field. Do not underestimate the fanatical dedication of the supporters of D$D.
User avatar
chach
Member
Member
Posts: 1999
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 2:22 pm
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
White Whale: Vietnam Era Secret Weapon
Decks Owned: 0
Location: Armpit of California
Has thanked: 237 times
Been thanked: 280 times
Contact:

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by chach »

Sounds like a great business venture for you and I wish you the best in your endeavors. I just have two little things to nitpick.

1. EPCC puts out a great product, but it's a personal opinion as to whether or not it is superior to USPCC. Personally I prefer the look, feel and even the smell of decks printed by USPCC. I'm serious about the smell thing. Open a fresh deck of Bicycle cards, you get a pleasing smell like that of a new car, but an EPCC deck has a noxious chemical smell that needs aerating. EPCC may be more flexible in their offerings and provide a less expensive product but to say that their decks are superior is purely subjective and you will lose a lot of customers if they're limited to only using EPCC. Then there are decks where it would just be heresy to print @ EPCC. Could you imagine Jackson's Independece deck being printed in Taiwan? Sorry but that's American through and through (well and British) and should be printed in the US regardless. I don't know about others but I do try and buy American if I can, even if it does cost more.

2. My wallet already hates me and is trying to stay shut, why do you have to have (what I'm assuming is) an awesome lineup of artists for the premier? I'm going to have to start eating nothing but Top Ramen soon and I don't think my body can handle that much sodium man. Give a guy a break eh.

Seriously though, I do hope the site, you and your team succeed. Sinjin is right in a few spots and I t'll be an uphill battle for sure but if you're ever in need of yet another pair of hands / eyes to help out I'd be happy to volunteer.


*Edited multiple times to fix stupid typos and grammatical errors though I'm sure there are still many left.
WTB/WTT: Vietnam Era Bicycle Secret Weapon Deck
User avatar
th4mo
Member
Member
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:33 am
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
Location: Portland, OR
Has thanked: 451 times
Been thanked: 158 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by th4mo »

Spoiler: If this is "TL", then please "DR"!!!!!! ;)

I am all for an improved version of KS and if this is it, that is great. As of right now, I could care less about Deckstarter, but they certainly still have the potential to surprise us all.

I share some of Sinjin's thoughts about arriving late to the party, and trying to compete for a very specific target demographic that just might not want to leave the big guy.

However, mostly i find myself a bit disturbed by what i see as a potential conflict of interest here. I can't speak for anyone else, but i am here because i am passionate about this collecting hobby of mine. Everyday, we dish out free advice (most of you with better advice to offer than me! ;) ) to people who are trying to sell a product. Generally, those who heed the advice here are more successful and, i would expect, profit more from their business ventures. For some reason, helping those people do well doesn't bother me, and everyone here seems to enjoy it.

If Cardlauncher takes off, and i understand correctly how it is structured, Mike R. and his wife, and a few select investors, will start to profit directly from what we do here. I too have noticed the zeal with which Mike has criticized others recently, and i wonder what would happen when he doesn't like a deck that is on KS, or DS, after CardLauncher takes off. Could Mike criticizing a KS deck at that point be seen as trying to steer customers away from a competitor? Wouldn't all UC members be at least open to accusations of being complicit in that as well? Inviting deck designers and even backers on KS to join the conversations here could ultimately be seen as trying to subtly steer people away from KS and towards CL. These are just a few of the disturbing thoughts that are starting to occur to me.

This forum has so far been about people celebrating their love of cards, and offering purely altruistic advice to others (with the occasional rude or sarcastic joke thrown in the mix for fun!)
Now it seems on the cusp of becoming part of a money-making venture, at least for the ownership. I have nothing against Mike, and indeed i am grateful for everything he has done to rescue this forum from a very near death. I have no reason to begrudge him further financial success either, there's just something about this plan that doesn't sit quite right with me.

I guess it comes down to me valuing and respecting the impartiality of this forum. And if the owner is suddenly part of the business side of the game, even if 99.9% of the members aren't, i feel like we lose some of that impartiality, certainly in appearances if not also in reality. Somewhere in all of this, there are shades of Mike F. (the previous owner) at his worst, beating away the card makers that he thought were taking advantage and profiting from his forum. I fully expect assurances that these things will never happen again, but i think a lot of gray areas lie ahead if we continue down this road.

Thanks for reading! :D
Keep it Sizzlin'!
User avatar
Sher
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:00 am
Collector: Yes
Decks Owned: 100
Location: Guam, United States
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Sher »

chach wrote: EPCC may be more flexible in their offerings and provide a less expensive product but to say that their decks are superior is purely subjective and you will lose a lot of customers if they're limited to only using EPCC
Projects launched on CardLauncher will not be limited to just EPCC. Mike stated this in his first post. Designers are free to choose which manufacturer to go with. It's just easier for designers to go with EPCC because EPCC is a partner of CardLauncher. This doesn't require them to use EPCC.

EDIT: I think it's like how Gambler's Warehouse has the ability to print their own cards (they even offer custom playing card printing services like zazzle, I believe) but still do business with USPCC for their decks (as evidenced by their KS campaigns). Even though they can print their own cards, they don't run every design through their own printers.
User avatar
Mike Ratledge
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5496
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:25 pm
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
White Whale: OG USPCC Vanity Fair [mint]
Decks Owned: 7800
Location: Awendaw/McClellanville (Charleston county) S.C.
Has thanked: 1911 times
Been thanked: 760 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Sher wrote:
chach wrote: EPCC may be more flexible in their offerings and provide a less expensive product but to say that their decks are superior is purely subjective and you will lose a lot of customers if they're limited to only using EPCC
Projects launched on CardLauncher will not be limited to just EPCC. Mike stated this in his first post. Designers are free to choose which manufacturer to go with. It's just easier for designers to go with EPCC because EPCC is a partner of CardLauncher. This doesn't require them to use EPCC.

EDIT: I think it's like how Gambler's Warehouse has the ability to print their own cards (they even offer custom playing card printing services like zazzle, I believe) but still do business with USPCC for their decks (as evidenced by their KS campaigns). Even though they can print their own cards, they don't run every design through their own printers.
Well, the last few comments bring up several things that I didn't put in my original post: by being a CardLauncher partner, each of the companies is passing along a "bulk rate" discount that would be created as if CardLauncher itself bought all of the products, but each campaign launcher/deck arist/designer will be negotiating their own contracts with the production provider(s if USPCC comes on board), fulfillment providers, and service providers. Each is offering what amounts to basically a group discount if you are running a deck(s) on CardLauncher. I think this is good for everybody, including your wallets. The fact is that KS is doing this type of generating large volumes, but they're not taking advantage of the fact that they could negotiate with suppliers and provide services to their projects at a pass-through discount - we are. They could, but they frankly apparently don't care, and believe me one thing I have observed from being "inside" several projects is that once a deck is funded - they turn a blind eye to anything that is done from that point on, simply because they are already counting their money. That's not going to happen on CardLauncher, we will be following each and every project from beginning to end, and always have an eye towards protecting the pledgers. Contests? I suppose that's another thing that will be different. Unless someone can provide me with a legally sound argument why they shouldn't be allowed, I don't see why not.

Also, Expert PCC (nor Bill Kalush) is an equity partner/owner of CardLauncher, simply a production provider, and so far the only one that has offered. I think that deserves a little more applause than raspberries from the crowd. If he charges $10,000 for a project elsewhere, and charges $9500 (or even $9000) for it on CardLauncher, why wouldn't these projects pass along the savings to the buyers/pledgers? They certainly should, although we can't really make them. Same things with the 3 existing fulfillment providers and Jamie's Impossible Bottles and other service providers (someone has already approached me with the idea of providing a partnership that provides a consultancy to design and guide artists/designers towards a better project, which of course I whole-heartedly encourage), along with any other benefit that provide CL with a differentiator to the others. We're also going to likely provide what sinjin suggested, and protect the pledgers from fraudulent projects. That's not free of cost, but again, it will distinctly make us different - and better! Anything that improves the service, makes it better for backers is strongly encouraged, and I look forward to hearing more as we get closer to launch.

I'm not fond of being partial to any one provider, be they production, fulfillment or service providers, but of course I have to encourage people to stay within the system, again because we will go out of our way to differentiate ourselves from the others, including a more rigorous approval process, requiring more financial and person data before someone can use the service, and therefore further protect the pledgers from fraudulent activity. That's a double-edged sword, because we - like everyone else - will specifically disclaim any and all liability for the way projects are managed or fulfilled. We can't possibly do otherwise, but we can provide as many possible way to protect everyone that purchases and pledges from fraud. Again, it will make the service distinct, different, and anything that makes us different or makes us better can't be anything less than a good thing for everybody involved!

During the first month or two, it won't be required, because I am so picky about who launches during that time period that nobody will be using the service except someone that I have either invited or asked me to be able to use it, and I will also prevent them from "burning down the house" by launching only 2 "big name" projects at once, and at least provide a 10-day spacing between each pair of those projects. Of course there will be 3 or 4 projects each 10-day period that aren't the "big guys", but those will also be heavily scrutinized for the duration, not just the first few weeks or months. The net effect is that we will indeed be better, safer and more reliable a place to put your pledges and your money.

Am I totally impartial? Of course not - nobody here is, they have their favorites. Am I going to be able to favor them once I am responsible to everyone for their behavior? That's a different can o' worms. I have to treat each basically the same, whether or not I like them. It wouldn't be fair to anyone involved. Now anyone that says I don't support KS has to think about that. I've provided them with over $250,000 in funding over the past 6 months. Probably double that, but I don't keep score.
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
THE Playing Card Database Online
Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
User avatar
sprouts1115
Deck Artist
Deck Artist
Posts: 1897
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:05 am
Collector: Yes
Decks Owned: 50
Location: san antonio, tx, usa
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 113 times
Contact:

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by sprouts1115 »

Mike - Sounds interesting, but if this is your idea consider keeping 51%. Give or sell the other 49%. Be like Bill Gates or you might end up like this guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gygax Gary Gygax. He invented D&D. Dungeons and Dragons.

It's a good read. Imagine inventing a game then suddenly you can't change a thing for the better.


"I was pretty much boxed out of the running of the company because the two guys, who between them had a controlling interest, thought they could run the company better than I could. I was set up because I could manage. In 1982 nobody on the West Coast would deal with TSR, but they had me start a new corporation called "Dungeons and Dragons Entertainment." It took a long time and a lot of hard work to get to be recognized as someone who was for real and not just a civilian, shall we say, in entertainment. Eventually, though, we got the cartoon show going (on CBS) and I had a number of other projects in the works. While I was out there, though, I heard that the company was in severe financial difficulties and one of the guys, the one I was partnered with, was shopping it on the street in New York. I came back and discovered a number of gross mismanagements in all areas of the company. The bank was foreclosing and we were a million and a half in debt. We eventually got that straightened out, but I kind of got one of my partners kicked out of office. [Kevin Blume, who was removed as TSR CEO in 1984.] Then my partners, in retribution for that, sold his shares to someone else [Lorraine Williams]. I tried to block it in court, but in the ensuing legal struggle the judge ruled against me. I lost control of the company, and it was then at that point I just decided to sell out." Gary Gygax

You want 51%. Don't count your wife. LOL
RussellSprouts
User avatar
Mike Ratledge
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5496
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:25 pm
Collector: Yes
Player: Yes
White Whale: OG USPCC Vanity Fair [mint]
Decks Owned: 7800
Location: Awendaw/McClellanville (Charleston county) S.C.
Has thanked: 1911 times
Been thanked: 760 times

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

We jointly own 55% of the company, I'm the President and CEO, Chairman of the Board. There are 3 other equity stakeholders, and two of them you know well: Lorenzo and Lotrek. The third person hasn't given me permission to publicly disclose his ownership position because it could upset some of his existing relationships, I suppose. That may well change, I will know more tomorrow. There is a provision in our ownership agreement that should she divorce me (not too terribly likely after more than 40 years together) I automatically gain control of her shares in the company. As it is I vote her interest by proxy. I don't intend to lose controlling interest of this effort, I've put more than 3 months of every spare minute into designing, picking and negotiating with the partners, interviewing seven different software providers for CrowdFunding, and I will announce the rest of the directions I have taken shortly.
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
THE Playing Card Database Online
Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
User avatar
rjtomlinson1977
✔ VERIFIED Designer
✔ VERIFIED Designer
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:34 am
Decks Owned: 15
Location: LeRoy, PA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 116 times
Contact:

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by rjtomlinson1977 »

sprouts1115 wrote:Mike - Sounds interesting, but if this is your idea consider keeping 51%. Give or sell the other 49%.
I agree 100%!! In business you never want to give away too much control. The thing Walt Disney hated the most was when he had to take his company public because he lost the full control he once enjoyed. At that point he had to answer to others not just himself.
I think this business sounds great for the card community. I worry about one thing... I think you may be getting too many chiefs and not enough indians. With so many business partners, how is the business going to be set up to make it profitbale for all involved :?: Right now, KS charges the project owner 5% with Amazon taking another 4% to 5% on top of that. Which in my opinion seems fair. The Dickstarter site by D$D looks like they take full control of your work and will pay you monthly royalities based on how many decks they sell each month. For some, this might be nice to have the stress and burden taken off them... but not for me. It's my work and I want to control it.
Barclay Mountains Co.
User avatar
rjtomlinson1977
✔ VERIFIED Designer
✔ VERIFIED Designer
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:34 am
Decks Owned: 15
Location: LeRoy, PA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 116 times
Contact:

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by rjtomlinson1977 »

Mike Ratledge wrote:We jointly own 55% of the company, I'm the President and CEO, Chairman of the Board. There are 3 other equity stakeholders, and two of them you know well: Lorenzo and Lotrek. The third person hasn't given me permission to publicly disclose his ownership position because it could upset some of his existing relationships, I suppose. That may well change, I will know more tomorrow. There is a provision in our ownership agreement that should she divorce me (not too terribly likely after more than 40 years together) I automatically gain control of her shares in the company. As it is I vote her interest by proxy. I don't intend to lose controlling interest of this effort, I've put more than 3 months of every spare minute into designing, picking and negotiating with the partners, interviewing seven different software providers for CrowdFunding, and I will announce the rest of the directions I have taken shortly.
I bet $1000 I can guess who the mystery stakeholder is, but I'll be quite since Mike already bitched me out once :D and I might actaully be worng.
Barclay Mountains Co.
User avatar
lolo
Member
Member
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:40 am
Collector: Yes
Location: FR, NANTES

Re: Something Wicked This Way Comes Part 3: "CardLauncher.co

Unread post by lolo »

Mike Ratledge wrote:Well, using PayPal allows us to be completely beyond the need to handle the money, and yes - you will have to have a PayPal account to fund your purchases. It's unavoidable, we have to have someone that takes that 'onus' off us, and PayPal is the logical choice, simply because they are worldwide and Amazon Payments is US only.
Too bad ! Paypal uses our personnal informations (and shares them with facebook for example) if we create an account...
My collection
The French Touch with english grammatical errors copyrighted by myself
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: manu and 11 guests