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Possible Name of Deck: Cathedral, Cardinal, etc

Inspiration: After touring Europe last year, one of the things i really enjoyed was the stained glass art in the Cathedrals and Basilicas. The way it captures the light is simply mesmerizing. So i decided to try to create a deck a of cards incorporating some of these elements.

Background Infomation: After much urging, my SO has finally decided to embark on designing a deck of cards based on my above inspiration albeit a slightly more modern take on the subject. The deck wont be completed so soon, we are just starting some drafts and research, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

This will be a bordered deck, simply because I believe that stained glass needs a frame, and it would lose a little of that if we were to go borderless.


Back Design ps If you have been wondering why i havent posted in my collection thread, this is why

Yes! This doesn't get me the gothic castle/cathedral look I wanted as it's focused on stained glass only, but darn close. Especially if you do the courts as stained glass too, as I posted in the 'New Deck Design Wishes (what design/themes not yet done)' thread

ecNate wrote:I realized what I'm really looking for here is a deck in the STYLE of Romanesque and Gothic cathedrals which can also be seen in many castles. Something that captures the style without being just photos, taking cues from the many lines, spires, arches and gothic elements. I could easily see the court cards being stained glass windows of a gothic cathedral, the back an intricate gothic spire design and the number cards having the pips embeded and colored within a sketch of a building or number of spires.

I wanted you to feel as though you are looking at up at a dome in a Basilica made out of stained glass as you stared down the center.

The courts would have certain features that are characteristic of the stained glass figures but still remain relatively modern. Id say stay tuned ! Hope you are liking what you see so far =)

Reminds me a bit of the rose window of Notre Dame. Would you consider putting any greens in the design? And I like the idea of stained glass courts, sort of like what the Sophia Rae deck tried to do but with more cracks in the whole card and an overall better attitude

wahl0108 wrote:Reminds me a bit of the rose window of Notre Dame. Would you consider putting any greens in the design? And I like the idea of stained glass courts, sort of like what the Sophia Rae deck tried to do but with more cracks in the whole card and an overall better attitude

Adding green isnt out of the question, im just a little afraid that there might be too many colours (can there be too many colours ? ) But ill play around with it a little. The back design has been referenced to many different windows all across the world for inspiration, wouldnt be too surprised if you think you see a little of it somewhere

Well i can say that it wont be like the sophia rae deck. Stained glass figures dont look like that at all lol. We are looking to have something like this, but its not easy to do, but we will try our best:

volantangel wrote: Well i can say that it wont be like the sophia rae deck. Stained glass figures dont look like that at all lol. We are looking to have something like this, but its not easy to do, but we will try our best:

I meant all the cracks in the faces had you gone the route of redoing "traditional" courts. Sounds interesting! Any specific saints you were thinking of using?

Hey now! This is a pleasant surprise!

If you can manage to make me feel like I have a tiny cathedral in my hands, you'll have all my money Kai.

Looking really good! One thing I'd suggest is to make the stained glass looks less...perfect? It's too clean cut, even the shading and gradients are very angular. Give that sort of brush stroke effect.

Eoghann wrote:Hey now! This is a pleasant surprise!

If you can manage to make me feel like I have a tiny cathedral in my hands, you'll have all my money Kai.

Looking really good! One thing I'd suggest is to make the stained glass looks less...perfect? It's too clean cut, even the shading and gradients are very angular. Give that sort of brush stroke effect.

Haha Daniel I agree with you, although its a more modern take on the medieval cathedrals, its shouldnt be too perfect (first time someone is complaining the deck looks too perfect ) Ill get back to the artist and see what she can do =)

Here is a first look at the queen of spades.

Things to note:
The custom pips are not ready yet, that will replace the black spades pip beside the queen.
Indices have not been decided, hence those are blank as well.

Could be more colourful. But it looks great so far.

Yashi wrote:Could be more colourful. But it looks great so far.

Ah i forgot to mention that this will be a four coloured deck, the spades are going to be predominantly grey, hence the slightly less colourful appearance of the deck. We are still deciding on the colours, nothing is absolutely set in stone yet Thanks Yashi !

volantangel wrote: Ah i forgot to mention that this will be a four coloured deck, the spades are going to be predominantly grey, hence the slightly less colourful appearance of the deck. We are still deciding on the colours, nothing is absolutely set in stone yet Thanks Yashi !

Ohhh. Well you're close to getting my money.
Looking forward to seeing more.

I was wondering if it would be redundant if the crown or scepter had spades on them. Coz I see a lot of diamonds.

Or better yet, instead of the predominant black space, fashion the window to represent the suit.

I like the concept and look, but I'm going to nitpick a bit. Neither of the proposed names works very well for me. "Cardinal" means too many other things that will just confuse people. (If I saw a listing for a "Cardinal" deck with no further description/images, it could be bird themed, sports themed, or even direction themed. In fact, churches wouldn't have even come to mind without further prompting.) "Cathedral" probably works fine for most people, but hearing it, I would expect to see at least hints of religious iconography, religious themes, and art in the styles commonly found in cathedral stained glass windows. Looking at the QoS on its own, I probably would have guess the art style to be very modern, especially with the square geometry in the background. I'm not sure I would have guessed that stained glass was the inspiration if I weren't told. The style is also not very stained-glass-y.

Have you ever worked in stained glass? In my (admittedly limited) experience, the QoS would be difficult to replicate in glass, and the back design neigh impossible (the unbroken, thin red circle being the biggest red flag). Each piece has to be cut separately and fitted to each other, and the materials and techniques have been pretty consistent through the centuries. They necessarily dictate thick lines between the pieces, little variation in line weights (it's unusual to use different sizes of lead came in the detailing of a piece), and tend to involve pieces of certain limited shapes and sizes (that are easier to cut and fit). All things that create the stylized "look" common to stained glass.

I had written a bit of a novel on what would need to be changed, but if you're not at all aiming for true-to-life accuracy, then it's a moot point. Your deck doesn't have to hew closely to its inspiration. If your intent is to achieve a look that's reminiscent of stained glass, you're on the right track. But if you want to go for designs that could be replicated in real stained glass, then I think you've got some revising to do. (But you'd also have killer options for add-ons/companion pieces if you can find a glazier to do the work, and the designs would be easier to translate on to enameled coins.) And, of course, there's a great deal of wiggle room between the two extremes. Let me know if you want specific feedback on what won't work as stained glass.

Thanks guys for the input !

Daniel we might rework the queen a little to maybe try to incorporate a little more spades in them, our other option is to have this as the queen of diamonds. As of now, we are playing with refining the queen as well as working some of the aces. As for the window to be fashioned in the spades, it might work for spades and diamonds, but i foresee a struggle with hearts and clubs, plus it would really bring more negative space rather than getting rid of it =)

ryzellon, these are really valuable input! For the names, the reason we havent settled on one is that we are not thoroughly satisfied with either name and are very willing to take in suggestions while we wreck our heads trying to think of one.

Indeed the queen was to be a more modern adaptation of the classical figures as stated at the introduction, more stain glass inspired rather than true-to-life stained glass. But i do appreciate someone who has worked with stained glass coming in to tell me what im doing wrong. And i do get the point of this not being realistic in the different ways, and i would relook at some of the elements you have mentioned =)

The add-ons, i dont think ill approach a glazer to actually do the pieces of work, the pieces would be much too fragile for me to risk shipping, but i have been thinking of using enameled coins (imagine a slightly less detailed version of the circular element on a 2" coin).

Or better yet, something like this:


Haha ill have to open a mint to get this done

Here, let's do this: I'll provide you with a commentary of what's not that realistic, maybe what would be more realistic, and you get to pick and choose what aspects to adopt and what to ignore. Much like we say about playing card design: it's best when a designer is aware of "how it should be done" and that deviations are deliberate and knowing.

Due to how glass is worked, it encourages certain techniques/shapes/looks and discourages (or forbids) others. Here's what I think are the core principles of what gives that distinctive stained glass look:

• Glass pieces are single-color (but not necessarily flat in color). Lead came, with an "H" shaped cross-section, is fitted between pieces (adjacent pieces of glass fit into the top and bottom slots of the "H" shape). This forms the thick line between colors. Finer details are painted on top of the glass where necessary. Copper foil and solder is an alternative to lead came, but it still produces thick lines between pieces. And is relatively modern, invented in the 1800s.
• The glass is done as a single layer. There's no overlapping of multiple layers. The complex shapes created by overlapping pieces is pretty annoying to cut. (Think about assembling the image out of cut paper. But you can't overlap any pieces. It's probably not worth the trouble to replicate the look of overlapping pieces when you can achieve an equally interesting design with simpler shapes.)
• Paint is not outlined.
• The ultra thick "lines" in rose windows are building material (stone, metal), lending much-needed structural stability. Just glass on its own doesn't hold that well in large sections. Giant windows are usually (always?) several smaller windows placed closely together.

This page has a great graphic identifying shapes according to how difficult they would be to cut in glass. Historical examples of stained glass tends towards the easier-to-cut shapes. Modern/artistic pieces are more likely to tackle hard shapes in order to demonstrate skill/virtuosity, and modern glass is much easier to obtain and cheaper to make. A medieval craftsman probably wouldn't think it worthwhile to bother cutting extremely difficult shapes when there are easier alternatives, and the more complex shapes tend to waste a lot of glass. You can also look for stained glass patterns to get a pretty solid idea of the shapes conventionally used in stained glass work.

Glass panels and boxes are shipped around all the time. It would certainly require some extra packing effort, but glass isn't as delicate as most people think it is.

As for the coin... well, I've never seen any of the Windows of Heaven/History coins in person, but I don't really like them. It seems to elevate the ends (ooh, shiny! translucent!) over the means (the actual art and craft of stained glass). It also looks pretty darn busy at that size, and more like a photo than actual art. But I imagine I'm in the minority--those coins have sold very well, despite being pricey.

You can get coins that look very much like stained glass

WOW!! I think I learned more about stained glass than I ever thought I would. Really good info ryzellon!

I guess I should more explicitly qualify what I'm saying. I'm not a professional glazier, but I have a knack for crafts--a professional amateur, if you will. I've done a fair bit of glass cutting, but I've never worked with lead came myself. I've done some work in copper foil, though, and the basic principles are the same. My extended commentary springs from my admiration of stained glass as a very honest, as I like to call it, craft: the material and techniques dictate how each piece can be formed, so craftsmen working within those boundaries have come up with techniques that accommodate the nature of the material, and that in turn has generated a very distinctive look.

But, as the artist has said, the intention isn't to create something that is 100% realistic. I just hope to set a baseline for what makes stained glass pieces look the way they do. I consider myself a craftsman more than an artist. Craftsmen make things; artists transform things.

Brilliant input! I just had an extended discussion with the artist =) I think we will definitely tidy the back designs and queen up !

One thing about the gradients on the back design was that it was done on purpose to give it a little more modern look, and i honestly think its looks great although its not that practical in reality. The large red circle is one that will definitely be changed as is the small designs. I think the middle design will stay more or less as it is as the middle "flower" can be painted rather than actually such small pieces.

The spade on the queen is a placeholder as we work on the pips, so its definitely not going to look like that in the end. I also think that many of the elements would be painted on rather than in small little pieces as mentioned (like the necklace and the crown) Only the thicker black lines would indicate different pieces of glass. And we will try to work on that to tighten up the design, hopefully it will become a better representation.

As of now, what we really want is to get the standards right for one court, so we can go on maintaining the same standard for the rest of the court cards !

So very many ways you can go with this, Kai! I'm psyched - it just looks like a winner from the first day you showed us what was going on, and the different paths you can take all lead to what should be a very successful deck(s)!

Here's another example that is one of my favorites, just for inspirtaion:

Thanks mike for the kind words, and yes so many ways about it, it would be interesting if other artists decide to tackle this theme as well !

But heres a look at the ace of diamonds ! The pips used might be a simpler version of this.

The deck concept I love, it seems that this would have to be a borderless black deck for the colours to really pop. Is that what you were thinking?

Afrank8 wrote:The deck concept I love, it seems that this would have to be a borderless black deck for the colours to really pop. Is that what you were thinking?

Hi Frank, its going to be a black deck for sure, however it would be bordered, as i want the stained glass to have a frame, and the borders in this case acts as a "frame".

Would that be a stark white bordered or something a bit softer like a beige/cream.

Afrank8 wrote:Would that be a stark white bordered or something a bit softer like a beige/cream.

A black border, its going to be a black based deck

Love the ace of diamonds, can't wait to see how this progresses.

Thanks Wahl !

Here is a little more progress with the aces. The ace of spades would be the same size as the rest of the aces, it is just scaled down to be placed in comparison to the others.

I think many would recognise the inspiration for the embellishments around the AOS
The regular pips would be a simpler version of these aces

volantangel wrote:Thanks Wahl !

Here is a little more progress with the aces. The ace of spades would be the same size as the rest of the aces, it is just scaled down to be placed in comparison to the others.

I think many would recognise the inspiration for the embellishments around the AOS

The regular pips would be a simpler version of these aces

Really looking nice, Kai!

Looking good! Somehow I'm reminded of Beauty and The Beast, not that it's a bad thing.

Yashi wrote:Looking good! Somehow I'm reminded of Beauty and The Beast, not that it's a bad thing.

ahhh!!! Can't unsee now!