UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Posted: **Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:49 pm**

KS May 3rd
[ Kickstarter Notification Link]

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:48 pm**

My Legacy deck will be available as add-on in the Innocence Gold Foil Kickstarter campaign.

52 different back designs that I have designed over the last 10 years will be featured in this deck. These also include the backs of sold-out Orbit decks that can be found on ebay at horrendous prices.

You'll get this deck as add-on on Kickstarter but the best part is that it will be a free bonus in the First Come First Served Bundle.

Posted: **Fri May 03, 2024 5:13 pm**

As the first post shows, live and 400% funded in the first 4 hours

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2024 9:02 am**

Since the courts are nothing to write home about, the legacy ed. is quite a nice deck idea. I wish Jackson would do one as well, haha.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2024 2:01 pm**

What a great idea. I would buy the legacy deck standalone if it is ever released after the Kickstarter.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2024 2:45 pm**

Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:02 am Since the courts are nothing to write home about, the legacy ed. is quite a nice deck idea. I wish Jackson would do one as well, haha.

Didn't Jackson do a frankendeck last year?

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2024 6:30 pm**

Dunno remember exactly but you’re right, he did something in that realm a while ago. But I meant more like his Bicycle, Tally-Ho and Table Players backs and the standard court set he uses for the aforementioned.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2024 7:30 pm**

kevork wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 2:01 pm What a great idea. I would buy the legacy deck standalone if it is ever released after the Kickstarter.

IMO this KS is really for the Legacy deck - at this stage I am only buying an Innocence to get a couple of the Legacy.
There are however only 500 of the Legacy as opposed to 2,500 of the Innocence

At this point 200 of the Legacy are tied up with the First Come First Served bundle but it would seem that only half of those will go
This is similar to how Muffins were free as part of a Cold Foil Black Roses (v3) Early bird bundle on KS in 2021
The Innocence deck only has interest to me as the source of the AoS adapted for my beloved Muffin decks

Leftover legacy could well be available to Daniel's supporters afterwards but it would be disappointing if they were available other than as future KS campaign add-ons (or on the ebay aftermarket)

The postage is a bummer for anyone other than the US but after the initial 'hit' the add on postage is cheap
(particularly harsh for Germany as Black Roses is Much, Germany - yes I know the distribution is Murphys US)

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2024 7:46 pm**

I would have thought the printing of 52 different backs would be expensive (harvs?)
With only 500 at around $31us they do not stand to take in $15,000

Making them as a franken deck would not be cheap either. 10 sets of Orbit V1, V2 + V3 is probably worth $5,000 as a set retails for $500 on ebay. Maybe Daniel kept a brick of everything he designed

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2024 8:48 pm**

you can do a deck with 52 backs or same back at MPC for same price no nevermind to anyone if the backs differ any more than the fronts - as long as not using foil or embossing which I believe changes things.

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2024 2:39 am**

Holy Cow - am I the only one who did NOT know that the Legacy decks is not only 52 different DS backs
But also the 52 AoS that belong to those decks!!!!!!
FANTASTIC

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2024 9:45 am**

Damn, I made a reddit post a while back asking if anyone ever did a deck full of different AoSs. This Legacy deck is as close as it gets. Unfortunately, they're not the designs that I'm looking for.

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2024 10:11 am**

You can always make your own at MPC - pretty cheap to kick out a deck without a nice box, if you were to want it for a magic trick or some such.

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2024 4:00 pm**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 7:46 pm I would have thought the printing of 52 different backs would be expensive (harvs?)

From a technical and production cost POV it does not matter since one deck is on one sheet. You of course need longer for the digital layout since you can‘t simply ctrl+c 52 backs into the layout.

Posted: **Mon May 06, 2024 11:11 pm**

Here are some links to the Legacy deck
This is a half measure by me. I would have posted the images themselves but Daniel did not see any point however I think some on here will be really interested in them

https://files.crsend.com/181000/181814/ ... d/aces.jpg

https://files.crsend.com/181000/181814/ ... /backs.jpg

Posted: **Tue May 07, 2024 4:49 pm**

I wonder whether Daniel didn't see any point in posting the Legacy (love the Acy double entendre) pics due to the absolute pasting UC gave the original Innocence KS campaign (I found this when doing a little research)

I am a little disappointed that there is no Orbit 1 or 2 or any Tally-Ho x Orbit in the legacy deck - I wonder whether this was simply his choice or whether they were not permitted or too much trouble?
DS had to go to a lot of trouble to actually re-create the Ace for Orbit 3 as nobody had the file

Posted: **Wed May 08, 2024 1:01 am**

I don't think it'd be that costly since you can probably just print 52 sheets (1 of each back) then take 1 card from each sheet to form a deck. This gives 52 decks. I don't work in the printing industry but I believe this could streamline the process by a fair amount.

Posted: **Wed May 08, 2024 1:08 am**

Printing each deck needs a different setup for each design in a production line. Printing the legacy deck as it is, with a dedicated plate/setup will likely cost like a regular deck to produce, one would think.

Posted: **Wed May 08, 2024 5:50 am**

krystalie wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 1:01 am I don't think it'd be that costly since you can probably just print 52 sheets (1 of each back) then take 1 card from each sheet to form a deck. This gives 52 decks. I don't work in the printing industry but I believe this could streamline the process by a fair amount.

Umm, no

Posted: **Wed May 08, 2024 6:08 am**

krystalie wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 1:01 am I don't think it'd be that costly since you can probably just print 52 sheets (1 of each back) then take 1 card from each sheet to form a deck. This gives 52 decks. I don't work in the printing industry but I believe this could streamline the process by a fair amount.

Definitely the least efficient way to do it. For each sheet you need 8 aluminium plates in offset printing (4 front CMYK and 4 back CMYK). So for your suggestion you would need 52 times 8 plates. Which would probably cost more than the whole printing, lol. After each run of a sheet you would need to change the plates for the next sheet - which is downtime ergo a money loss. Then you would need to sort everything… ouch.
The most efficient way (and cost effective) in printing is always the least amount of plates and changes.

Disenchanted_11 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 1:08 am Printing each deck needs a different setup for each design in a production line. Printing the legacy deck as it is, with a dedicated plate/setup will likely cost like a regular deck to produce, one would think.

Exactly.

Posted: **Wed May 08, 2024 5:16 pm**

With just 237 backers so far - they are on average pledging $145us each !

Posted: **Wed May 08, 2024 6:25 pm**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 5:16 pm With just 237 backers so far - they are on average pledging $145us each !

He has a large following that I've honestly never understood

Posted: **Thu May 09, 2024 1:31 am**

Lots of folks that like clean back designs. If I hadn't enough standard court decks, I would definitely buy some Schneider decks.
Plus I would assume the card magician community is larger than the solely card collector community. If you check Daniel's instagram you can see that he is quite the skilled magician himself.

Posted: **Thu May 09, 2024 1:51 am**

I am a fan. Like Harvs said - the clean back designs appeal to me. He obviously has plenty of fans with many of the Orbit decks having 23,000 runs. I mentioned the latest KS backers because despite all his fans, I thought 237 backers was much lower than his norm but closing in on 700% is impressive. I suppose this being the 3rd Innocence KS may be a factor, along with the Legacy deck not being a draw card to anyone that already has all his work (To me IT WAS THE REAL OFFERING)

Posted: **Thu May 09, 2024 12:51 pm**

Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 6:08 am Definitely the least efficient way to do it. For each sheet you need 8 aluminium plates in offset printing (4 front CMYK and 4 back CMYK). So for your suggestion you would need 52 times 8 plates. Which would probably cost more than the whole printing, lol. After each run of a sheet you would need to change the plates for the next sheet - which is downtime ergo a money loss. Then you would need to sort everything… ouch.
The most efficient way (and cost effective) in printing is always the least amount of plates and changes.

I see, I was of the impression that plates weren't needed, thanks for explaining. But then I'm curious as to how MPC or single deck printers offer their services, do they not use plates at all seeing as the plates are a massive cost.

Posted: **Thu May 09, 2024 2:33 pm**

krystalie wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 12:51 pm But then I'm curious as to how MPC or single deck printers offer their services, do they not use plates at all seeing as the plates are a massive cost.

Plates are needed only for mass printing.

Posted: **Thu May 09, 2024 5:17 pm**

What constitutes mass printing? Are 500 Legacy Decks (the appealing Add On) to be printed by WJPC going to need/use plates?

Posted: **Thu May 09, 2024 6:35 pm**

Disenchanted_11 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 2:33 pm Plates are needed only for mass printing.

Has nothing to do with the print run.

krystalie wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 12:51 pm ... I'm curious as to how MPC or single deck printers offer their services, do they not use plates at all seeing as the plates are a massive cost.

There are different printing methods. You have conventional printing (offset, letterpress, intaglio, ...) with print forms and you have digital printing (inkjet, laser, ...) that works without print forms.
Like with almost everything in life, every method has it's pros and cons; e.g. print quality, setup times, etc...
In the industry for paper products like books, magazines, cards, etc. offset printing is the most common because it evens out a lot of pro and cons of the other printing methods.
Conventional printing gets the cost-per-sheet down the more you print, because you can spread the setup and print form production costs across the print run.
Digital has the same cost per sheet no matter how many you print. So you'll have a breaking point depending on you product. Digital is cheaper in the lower spectrum and conventional is cheaper the higher it gets. Qualitywise conventional is always preferable.

Honeybee wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 5:17 pm ... Are 500 Legacy Decks (the appealing Add On) to be printed by WJPC going to need/use plates?

I'd assume yes. Grain of salt advised since I never worked in card printing but I'd say the sweet spot lays somewhere between 200 and 300 copies, I'd say everything above that uses offset printing.

Posted: **Sun May 12, 2024 2:25 am**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 4:49 pm I wonder whether Daniel didn't see any point in posting the Legacy (love the Acy double entendre) pics due to the absolute pasting UC gave the original Innocence KS campaign (I found this when doing a little research)

I am a little disappointed that there is no Orbit 1 or 2 or any Tally-Ho x Orbit in the legacy deck - I wonder whether this was simply his choice or whether they were not permitted or too much trouble?
DS had to go to a lot of trouble to actually re-create the Ace for Orbit 3 as nobody had the file

Daniel Schneider wasn’t involved with Orbit for the v1 or v2s. He came aboard from the v3s onwards. I presume then, that he also wasn’t involved with the Tally-Ho x Orbit project either.

Posted: **Sun May 12, 2024 7:38 am**

Thanks TMC but P52 lists Daniel as the artist for V2 and for the Tally-Ho x Orbits

UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses

Re: Innocence Gold Foil Edition by Black Roses