Are there any playing card creators you will just never support?

[rockets455]

I was wondering if there are some creators who screwed up badly in the past, or scammed people intentionally, or have some bigoted insane views they spout off, or whatever possible reason you have for not supporting them ever again? I hope this post becomes educational for new people coming into the hobby. I read a comment somewhere about the encarded guy and how he had a meltdown in the forums here a while back and people stopped supporting him. I couldn't find the context, but that's what got me thinking maybe there are others.

Mine:

1) I refuse to support creators who lock away limited decks behind an overpriced useless trinket in their Kickstarter like a box. Have a couple in mind, and I will never support them even if they don't have the useless trinket in a future project

2) I will never support ellusionist. Their customer service is crap and treat you like a liar who is trying to steal from them. Had it happen multiple times

3) one time I saw a designer here parrot Russian propaganda about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Refuse to support them ever again for that insanity

4) some creators refuse to divulge information about their printer for whatever reason and if I don't know who is printing the deck, I will never buy it no matter how nice the design

[GandalfPC]

Scamming is sometimes a label hung too quickly - as is bigoted and racist. In the case of the Ukraine incident I blame prevalent propaganda in the area more than the populace that swallowed it. I could be wrong, but I do try to err on the side of peoples better nature.

Bad customer service would put me off a store, but I have not had such from ellusionist myself - just bought from them yesterday so perhaps I will get a new opportunity to judge that. Don’t order from them often….

Locked away decks and printer info often put me off, but I don’t have any red line there - they certainly never help me purchase by not divulging printer though.

[rousselle]

FYI: one of the moderators redacted one of the points above out of concern that it would incite the same kind of flame war that almost erupted the last time. I didn't see the original wording, so I can't say whether it was the right call or not, but I do agree that we want to avoid inhibiting free speech while, at the same time, we don't want hate-y stuff tainting the pool, either.

So, yeah, let's just say that the redacted point above could be read along the lines of "3) I will never support creators whose political opinions are so different from mine as to be irreconcilable."

Thanks for understanding, rockets455 and others.

[Adamthinks]

I didn't see the original wording, so I can't say whether it was the right call or not, but I do agree that we want to avoid inhibiting free speech while, at the same time, we don't want hate-y stuff tainting the pool, either.

I did see the original wording, so I'm a little confused why it was deleted. It was vague enough that I didn't even know which creator he was referencing. I wouldn't call it controversial either as he basically just said he wouldn't back a creator that supports Russian propaganda about the Ukraine war, which seems a pretty mild and reasonable stance to me.

[bdawg923]

I didn't see the original wording, so I can't say whether it was the right call or not, but I do agree that we want to avoid inhibiting free speech while, at the same time, we don't want hate-y stuff tainting the pool, either.

I did see the original wording, so I'm a little confused why it was deleted. It was vague enough that I didn't even know which creator he was referencing. I wouldn't call it controversial either as he basically just said he wouldn't back a creator that supports Russian propaganda about the Ukraine war, which seems a pretty mild and reasonable stance to me.

viewtopic.php?t=19899 if I had to guess...

[rousselle]

Do we really need to resurrect a flame war, guys?

Really?

I think the concern was about actually voicing the opinion on the specific topic. If there was a flame war about Coke vs Pepsi (hypothetically speaking), and feelings got really really bent out of shape over it, and then after the flames died down and everyone was back to playing nice, somebody said, "I would never buy anything from someone who drinks Pepsi," isn't that kinda inviting the flame war to resume and feelings to again get smashed?

I mean, everyone knows that Dr Pepper is really the only soda worth drinking, anyway, but still... there actually are some Pepsi drinkers out there. Y'know?

Anyway, I see where the mod was coming from, and now that I have a better idea of the full context, I see the argument against, as well. I'mma let it drop. As long as nobody starts a flame war.

That said, I'll throw my two cents in on the proposed topic itself: I will tend to not back a project creator who has demonstrated terrible customer service and who has badmouthed their customers/backers. It happens far too often, and I just don't need to throw my money in that direction. Unfortunately for me, there are enough creators who have excellent customer service skills as well as excellent playing card designs that I can still lose my shirt on playing cards even without those other crabby pants.

[Adamthinks]

I didn't see the original wording, so I can't say whether it was the right call or not, but I do agree that we want to avoid inhibiting free speech while, at the same time, we don't want hate-y stuff tainting the pool, either.

I did see the original wording, so I'm a little confused why it was deleted. It was vague enough that I didn't even know which creator he was referencing. I wouldn't call it controversial either as he basically just said he wouldn't back a creator that supports Russian propaganda about the Ukraine war, which seems a pretty mild and reasonable stance to me.

viewtopic.php?t=19899 if I had to guess...

Well that was eye opening.and will impact my buying decisions from them in the future. Thanks for the link.

[Adamthinks]

Do we really need to resurrect a flame war, guys?

Really?

Yes. It's on topic to this thread and useful information. I for one am grateful as I likely won't buy from that creator again. If it escalated to flaming, then mod intervention is useful. But it was just information and it was presented mildly and I think that's useful to the community as well.

[laitostarr777]

Well there is one that comes to mind when talking about creator who shouldn't be well supported:

BRAD FULTON

Yes, the so entitled "OG DESIGNER" who continues to do unorthodox stuffs and always gets aways with it...
I could list A LOT of reasons of how bad he can be, but these are few that keeps on repeating:

• Having edition of "tuckbox change" and calling it "Artist Proof" and sells it for $52 - Gilded decks, sold at $65
• Whitewash the tuck box and draw a child doodle and sells it for $120
• Some of his designs are simply art thief, yet he tries to hide it by "silencing" those who speaks
• Any negative stuffs about his decks and he deletes it within seconds. Any questions regarding the deck and he went silent treatment. Any praises about his works and he goes "Oh thank you so much, I am delighted you 'l***" my a**"

I currently have one deck before completely draw the line on him - my SnM 15th Anniversary Double Deck Pack hasn't arrived to this day. DHL said the item has been delivered, yet I never received it. FOR THREE TIMES, I've contacted his email regarding this problem and no response. HOW AM I supposed to poke him, if he closed the dang DMs on Instagram or remove the reply on his IG Stories (which mostly filled with him having a good time or reshare some who "worship" his decks)

His store is like: "Once I sent out the decks, that's it - out of my hands. You received the decks, good - enjoy! You don't received the decks, sorry I can't help you"

[PiazzaDelivery]

Vanda Cards: disappearing act, no communication, and pathetic apology barely addressing accountability.
VXD: embarrassing business practices that should be shamed, no communication, and disappearing act with no end in sight.

So I'd say disappearing with backers' money and ignoring all lines of communication is a death knell for me.

edit: I know, I know, I sound like a broken record at this point. I'll clam up about these two for a while.

[Strag]

You forgot the OG of disappearing acts: Natalia Silva.

[Harvonsgard]

Never is a strong term in my book so, no, there're no creators that are on my black list who still operate. I almost exclusively judge on art. But indeed there are descisions made by publishers, retailers and designers which keep me away from purchasing. For example I grew out of setting alarms to be on time for releases that'll sell out in minutes or even seconds. Ain't nobody got time for that. So you could say artificially limited decks land naturally on my black list but if they pop-up at retailers with an excusable mark-up then I would still purchase them.

[STLBluesNut]

my list would be:

this list is no matter what deck they make or what it looks like:
daniel madison
daniel schnieder
fulton
anyone worldwide
fontaine
theory 11
anything disney including marvel and star wars
that one cat that was in here bill something with the pig deck
probably others i cannot think of

this list would be creators i would probably never buy due to having no designs i have ever liked and likely never will:
luke wadey
OPC
gemini
probably others i cannot think of

[JacksandJokers]

I've been a backer of Kickstarter playing card projects for almost 10 years now (Just looked it up, August '14 - wow) so I guess I've been pretty lucky.

For me, the only campaign that hasn't delivered was Feel the Music by ARAS playing cards.
(https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ar ... he-music-0)

Also I have a personal issue with Keith Glover of the Bicycle Runic Royalty decks.
(https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pa ... one-week-o)

With just a couple of hours left to achieve their funding goal I offered to back the project for the required amount in exchange for a certain number of decks. Keith only sent half of what we agreed upon stating that he didn't realise how expensive it would be to ship to the UK and didn't reply to any further messages.

I definitely wouldn't back anything by these 2 again, however I doubt very much we'll see them again anytime soon.

[Evilgamer]

That’s about the worst “bite the hand that feeds you” I’ve heard about a ks campaign.

[Adonael]

That's easy, KWP, I've already purged my collection of old decks I had gotten from his KS projects before his extreme religious cultism and predictably associated lack of mental stability became clear. I refuse to give someone like that my support or money, some things go too far to separate the artist from their work and that is one of them.

[laitostarr777]

That's easy, KWP, I've already purged my collection of old decks I had gotten from his KS projects before his extreme religious cultism and predictably associated lack of mental stability became clear. I refuse to give someone like that my support or money, some things go too far to separate the artist from their work and that is one of them.

Which you refer the “religious cultism”: that specific verse that keep appears on his deck OR the fact that he had built a cult of people who thinks its okay to keep encourage him to create overpriced gilded decks and editions that simply tuckbox changed and numbered seal?

My simple grudge on KWP is on its international shipping rates - thats all

[Timmargh]

I just got sick of the myriad editions for each deck – it seemed like a way to fleece collectors, especially completists. Plus, most of his decks seem the same with only the tuck changing, barring the obvious stuff like Lord of the Rings etc.

What I've seen of him, he seems to be a really nice guy, and I know nothing of anything religious.

[Adamthinks]

That's easy, KWP, I've already purged my collection of old decks I had gotten from his KS projects before his extreme religious cultism and predictably associated lack of mental stability became clear. I refuse to give someone like that my support or money, some things go too far to separate the artist from their work and that is one of them.

Ummm, what? Care to expound on that a bit?