To Bicycle or not to Bicycle?

[Lotrek]

Hi everybody,

I'm currently working on a new deck of cards which hopefully will be on kickstarter soon. My problem is that I cannot decide about having it under the "Bicycle" brand name or not. I know that many people are collecting Bicycle decks but on the other hand we've seen non-bicycle decks performing magnificently. To be honest I'm leaning towards having only the name of the deck on the box.

Given a decent design, is "bicycle" logo a guarantee for a more successful campaign?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
L.

[MagikFingerz]

This is a bit of a controversial topic. Personally I don't see any reason for a deck to have the Bicycle brand unless it, for some reason, fits well with the theme. But like you said, there are lots of people collecting Bicycle branded decks, and the recent uproar that happened when the Federal 52 deck removed the Bicycle brand speaks for itself (though changing something of that magnitude in the middle of a campaign is not a wise thing to do). In the end it's up to the creator to decide if his/her deck should have the brand or not, but I think the design should be good enough to be successful with or without any additional branding. That decision should not be made purely from a financial standpoint just because it will "make or break" a kickstarter project.

Good question though, I'm sure a good and insightful discussion will spark from it

[BMPokerworld]

By using the Bicycle brand, you give your deck the best chance to succeed. Does that me it won't if you don't use Bicycle? Of course not, it just improves your chances.

Thanks!

[Lotrek]

Thanks Tom,
I agree with your point of view. I can't see why a collector wouldn't pick a deck s/he likes just because there isn't the Bicycle word printed on it. Or why would pick a mediocre deck just for the word again.

[Lotrek]

By using the Bicycle brand, you give your deck the best chance to succeed. Does that me it won't if you don't use Bicycle? Of course not, it just improves your chances.

Thanks!

Hmm, I guess the key word here is "chances".

[BMPokerworld]

Thanks Tom,
I agree with your point of view. I can't see why a collector wouldn't pick a deck s/he likes just because there isn't the Bicycle word printed on it. Or why would pick a mediocre deck just for the word again.

A lot of people will pick a Bicycle deck over a non-Bicycle deck precisely because of the name. There are a lot of people who have had to limited their purchases due to the glut of product on the market today. All the people that I know that have done this, now stick to only buying Bicycle branded decks. Again it is to each his own.

Thanks!

[MagikFingerz]

Thanks Tom,
I agree with your point of view. I can't see why a collector wouldn't pick a deck s/he likes just because there isn't the Bicycle word printed on it. Or why would pick a mediocre deck just for the word again.

A lot of people will pick a Bicycle deck over a non-Bicycle deck precisely because of the name. There are a lot of people who have had to limited their purchases due to the glut of product on the market today. All the people that I know that have done this, now stick to only buying Bicycle branded decks. Again it is to each his own.

Thanks!

Buying only Bicycle branded decks is "limiting"?

[volantangel]

I guess to many of us collectors, having bicycle or not isnt the key, but rather it is having it printed by uspcc. However those outside the loop might see that the brand 'bicycle' as an assurance of quality and hence have more faith in the deck, and hence aid you in casting a wider net.

Just ensure that if you are indeed going for a bicycle deck, that the logo is properly integrated into the tuck design, rather than having it just 'slapped' on

[Lotrek]

@volantangel:

That's exactly my problem: The theme and the style of my deck doesn't go with the "bicycle" logo...

[BMPokerworld]

@volantangel:

That's exactly my problem: The theme and the style of my deck doesn't go with the "bicycle" logo...

Then don't worry about using the Bicycle brand. It is better to have a coherent and smooth flowing tuck box, than have one that looks like it was just thrown together without any regard for uniformity.

Thanks!

[Lotrek]

I would never do such a thing...

I'm very serious about that undertaking, that's why I'm asking for some advice. Your experience as a seller is precious.

Thanks

[volantangel]

@volantangel:

That's exactly my problem: The theme and the style of my deck doesn't go with the "bicycle" logo...

Exactly! Dont do it, nothing else to consider, design comes before everything else !

[Lotrek]

Thank you all for your replies so far.

A tuck box with Bicycle logo thrown on it, regardless the style, is out of the question self-evidently.

I just still wonder if Federal 52 for example would have been equally successful, if it was announced from the beginning without the bicycle logo.

[RSLancastr]

Thanks Tom,
I agree with your point of view. I can't see why a collector wouldn't pick a deck s/he likes just because there isn't the Bicycle word printed on it. Or why would pick a mediocre deck just for the word again.

Speaking only for myself, I don't recall ever passing on a deck I liked just because it was not Bike-branded.

On the other hand, I know of dozens of times where I have bought a deck specifically because it was Bike-branded, even though its design did nothing for me. Case in point: many/most of the Karnival decks. Venom&VenomStrike as well.

And there are times when money is tight, when I have to choose only one of two decks to purchase. When that happens, all else being equal (design-wise), if only one of them is Bike-branded, that's the one I choose.

I don't know of many (if any) collectors who, given that last scenario, would go for the non-
bike-branded one (again, all else being equal).

Compare the number of collectors who collect "anything with the Bicycle logo on it" with those who collect "anything without the Bicycle logo on it"

How this might influence your decision is up to you.

[Lotrek]

RSLancaster wrote:

"Compare the number of collectors who collect "anything with the Bicycle logo on it" with those who collect "anything without the Bicycle logo on it"

Yes, the result is obvious! I also understand the budget restrictions. But do you know how many people collect "anything they like, no matter the logo"? What is their percentage?

[volantangel]

Lotrek, i think that what bob states is when the design is borderline at best, the bicycle branding might just push it over the edge, however given your track record, i dont think your deck would have this issue

[Lotrek]

Lotrek, i think that what bob states is when the design is borderline at best, the bicycle branding might just push it over the edge, however given your track record, i dont think your deck would have this issue

Haha! Thanks volantangel!

[RSLancastr]

But do you know how many people collect "anything they like, no matter the logo"?

I would put myself in that camp, actually.

I have more than 2,200 decks in my collection, and only some 200 of those are Bikes. It just so happens that they make up the vast majority of decks I have purchased in the past two years (probably 200 out of the last 220 decks I've purchased).

"What I like" is generally, decks with non-standard courts. I have been collecting them since around 1995. It has only been in the past 2 or 3 years that modern Bikes have caught my eye, and I got caught up in the craze.

[MagikFingerz]

It has only been in the past 2 or 3 years that modern Bikes have caught my eye, and I got caught up in the craze.

You sold out, man

[Lotrek]

[Soliloquy]

About how much does using the Bicycle brand add to the cost of producing the deck?

[BMPokerworld]

About how much does using the Bicycle brand add to the cost of producing the deck?

About $.75 per deck.

Thanks!

[Lotrek]

I think about $0,50- $0,75 per deck.

[RSLancastr]

It has only been in the past 2 or 3 years that modern Bikes have caught my eye, and I got caught up in the craze.

You sold out, man

Guilty as charged!

But, in my defense, I have bought many non-Bikes in the past few months (Witness all the Miniature Peanuts decks, M&M decks and all the Christmas-themed decks I posted in the "Look what I recently added to my collection" thread, leading one poster to accuse me of buying just about anything).

Truth is, my collection's focus is on decks with non-standard (custom) courts, but I get "side-tracked" from time to time by other categories (Transformation decks, Philibert decks, Dondorf decks, Christmas-themed decks, miniature decks, etc.) as the mood strikes me.

Bikes have been the biggest such "sidetrack" I've ever been on (both in terms of the number of decks I've bought and the months I've spent pursuing it) in all the time I've been collecting. This is both because of the large variety of affordable&available decks within that category, and because a fair percentage of them (say, 20%) have non-standard courts, thus assuaging my guilt over being sidetracked.

[Lotrek]

My decks will always have custom courts, so I hope I'll manage to sell you guys a few!

[RSLancastr]

Pardon my ignorance Lotrek, but what are the decks you have designed to date?

[Collector]

Pardon my ignorance Lotrek, but what are the decks you have designed to date?

Timeless
http://www.rsvpmagic.com/timeless-deck- ... -in-stock/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bicycle Butterfly
http://www.rsvpmagic.com/butterfly-deck/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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I don't care about "Bicycle" brand at all. Lower price will be more important. Lotrek, don't spoil your design -

...
That's exactly my problem: The theme and the style of my deck doesn't go with the "bicycle" logo...

[BMPokerworld]

Pardon my ignorance Lotrek, but what are the decks you have designed to date?

Timeless
http://www.rsvpmagic.com/timeless-deck- ... -in-stock/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Bicycle Butterfly
http://www.rsvpmagic.com/butterfly-deck/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

-------------------------
I don't care about "Bicycle" brand at all. Lower price will be more important. Lotrek, don't spoil your design -

...
That's exactly my problem: The theme and the style of my deck doesn't go with the "bicycle" logo...

I haven't seen that happen yet. Whatever someone saves from not using the Bicycle brand, does not seem to get passed on to the customer. It just gets pocketed by the deck creator.

Honestly, I have yet to see a design that would not have worked with the Bicycle logo on it.

Thanks!

[Lotrek]

@collector: Thanks!

If everything goes well the price will definitely be reasonable. I'm not fond of the "If you like my design sell your house" style!

[RSLancastr]

I haven't seen that happen yet. Whatever someone saves from not using the Bicycle brand, does not seem to get passed on to the customer. It just gets pocketed by the deck creator.

Honestly, I have yet to see a design that would not have worked with the Bicycle logo on it.

I've been thinking the same thing, Mike.

Does anyone have an example of a deck where they feel that the Bicycle Logo did not work with the design?

Personally, I think of the Logo as seperate from the theme. Certainly there are times when the Logo is more successfully worked into the tuck art (or, actually, where the tuck art is more successfully worked around the Logo), but I can't think of a time where the logo did not "work" with the design.

And I would think that were that to happen, it would be more the "fault" of the tuck art's designer, rather than the Logo's fault.