UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:13 am**

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:17 am**

I got this 2p...

F@&king 3D garbage.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:22 am**

The fact that the models are textured to resemble statues is slightly better than a lot of other decks that use computer rendering, but I'm still not a fan.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:23 am**

I like the card backs and the tuck could be really really nice with all the bling minus the 3d Merlin. The rest is just not for me.

Sent from my Galaxy 8 using Tapatalk

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:36 am**

This deck would be much better if it wasn't 3D rendered.

If this wasn't 3D rendered I would really like this!

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:22 am**

Yet again... 3D renders and cards don't go well with each other; especially when the 3d renders have the quality of Diablo II (released 19 years ago, for culturally illiterates) cut scenes! Till this day the deck that proofs me wrong has still to come.

RichK wrote:I got this 2p... F@&king 3D garbage.

+1

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:16 pm**

Being a fan of the Corridor Digital VFX crew, I could tell the problem of this 3D rendering is that the lighting is off and the sculptures looks just half done.

It looks a lot like the incomplete 3D rendering on the left here, just with more gloss:

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:33 pm**

The back of that deck is ballin'.
The rest of it just balls.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:19 pm**

oh hell no. Poser garbage.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:40 pm**

I believe them that they've spent a lot of time on this, as someone who's just started learning 3D modelling myself and getting my ass handed to me. But the end result simply doesn't look good even if you try to make them look like metal statues, the textures and lighting could have been a lot better and more shadows would have helped. But "The third dimension proves the perfect medium for expressing the depth of character" come on dude, that's just silly lol. I can't believe it's already funded, I've seen decks multiples times better than this fail.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:41 pm**

vedus wrote:The back of that deck is ballin'.
The rest of it just balls.

I had the same thought, just less eloquently

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:10 pm**

I am surprised that no one mentioned this deck was from Dent de lion after all that drama with the Leonardo decks.... I guess I won't stir the pot

If you feel like reminiscing hehehe viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6548&hilit=leonardo

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:35 pm**

The cards with the "personas" does not look good, the others look awesome.

Posted: **Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:09 pm**

Pips and backs are nice, but that's about it. 3d monochromatic metal statue renders doesn't look nice in the courts. Like a incomplete computer game, IMHO

They could have gone the way of the King's game tucks with the courts for me. However they got funded in 5 hrs; so, good for them. BHope that they will use this to produce better decks.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:23 am**

RichK wrote:I got this 2p...

F@&king 3D garbage.

I'm so proud!

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:25 am**

vedus wrote:The back of that deck is ballin'.
The rest of it just balls.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:46 am**

Nice job on the clickbait thread title Decknowledgy. Can't disagree with anything said prior. But this deserves to be an art deck.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:02 am**

portcullis wrote:Nice job on the clickbait thread title Decknowledgy. Can't disagree with anything said prior. But this deserves to be an art deck.

Wait, what clickbait?

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:27 am**

I'm teasing. I'm a sucker for all things Arthurian.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:41 pm**

A good concept for a deck and, with an embossed tuck, may be interesting but given the past performance of the creator and the in-your-face 3d imaging others commented on, more of a wasted opportunity.

Posted: **Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:21 pm**

badpete69 wrote:I am surprised that no one mentioned this deck was from Dent de lion after all that drama with the Leonardo decks.... I guess I won't stir the pot

If you feel like reminiscing hehehe viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6548&hilit=leonardo

Even if I wanted to back this deck (I don't), I'd stay away from this guy.

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:45 am**

Adonael wrote:I believe them that they've spent a lot of time on this, as someone who's just started learning 3D modelling myself and getting my ass handed to me. But the end result simply doesn't look good...

These were not "modeled" per se. These are from an application called Poser, that's designed for human models. The render lighting is a dead giveaway. Poser lighting is very flat and gives a very unique look. The second is the texturing. 95% of 3d apps now use procedural texturing. It adds depth and well...texture to models. Even applications like mudbox and zbrush use fractal based textures to achieve the desired result. So that's a give away also. Do a search for "poser models metal statue" and you will se the exact same texturing. Anyone that could model these by hand and not know the basics of texturing and lighting is not getting my $$$
These are a hard pass

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:08 am**

I absolutely love them and I think they've done a great job! I pledged for 10 decks

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:38 am**

MagikFingerz wrote:
badpete69 wrote:I am surprised that no one mentioned this deck was from Dent de lion after all that drama with the Leonardo decks.... I guess I won't stir the pot

If you feel like reminiscing hehehe viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6548&hilit=leonardo
Even if I wanted to back this deck (I don't), I'd stay away from this guy.

Why? I've got the Leonardo deck s from them previously and I still love them

Posted: **Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:21 am**

Hello Friends!

We’ve had a lot of interesting questions from UC backers the last days about our project MERLIN • Illuminations, and I have been answering them individually over PM… when one superbacker suggested that these questions and answers would be of interest generally to our forum. So let’s do it!

Question : I’m a fellow 3D Artist and read about you (I’ve seen your bio on teethoftheLion.com) and I would like to know more detail about your workflow. Could you please share this with me?

I would be glad to. The work starts off in ZBrush where the main characters are developed. Virtually everything you see in this project is sculptural, all meticulously modelled in three dimensions.

Each object is meticulously modeled in ‘digital wax”, a wonderful surface to capture details.

During the modeling process, I frequently convert him to silver metal, to achieve the desired look.

: Screen Shot 2019-07-30 at 3.16.44 PM.png (562.3 KiB) Viewed 2046 times

There are no painted textures, it’s all pure geometry, and all the objects are completely modelled front and back, even though that won’t be seen on the cards (but it will on the 3D model prints that are coming soon!)

: Screen Shot 2019-07-30 at 3.17.36 PM.png (444.5 KiB) Viewed 2046 times

Next, I pose the characters using two different tools, DAZ and Zbrush depending on the complexity of the pose needed. Each court card has a character, a prop (sword, flowers, etc) and the Shield of their House. So there are LOTS of models! Everything is tracked in a small DB, it’s important to be very orderly in such a huge undertaking.

When everything is posed correctly and assembled together - I then use GOZ to get the work into Keyshot - one of three renderer engines I work with. I chose Keyshot over Maxwell Render and Cinema 4D Pro Render for speed and simplicity of use, for this project has a lot of similar setups between cards of course.

The final group sculptures are then rendered in Keyshot at 16x (!) the size of standard poker cards to ensure superior fidelity. This is critical to achieve the best results for the final card prints, and eliminates moires, and aliasing defects.

Photoshop serves as an end station to composite the cards for print in CMYK.

I hope this gives you some insight into the processes used to produce MERLIN • Illuminations.

Please let me know if you have any other questions about my work.

Kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion
Art Playing Cards

Posted: **Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:11 pm**

ancamonica wrote:
MagikFingerz wrote:
badpete69 wrote:I am surprised that no one mentioned this deck was from Dent de lion after all that drama with the Leonardo decks.... I guess I won't stir the pot

If you feel like reminiscing hehehe viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6548&hilit=leonardo
Even if I wanted to back this deck (I don't), I'd stay away from this guy.
Why? I've got the Leonardo deck s from them previously and I still love them

Ancamonica, read the thread linked to above, which you included in your very own post. Read that entire thread, from beginning to end. You will find your answers there.

Dent-de-Lion has made later responses (possibly earlier in this very thread; you can search his posts on his member page), which you should consider while you are evaluating the Leonardo thread and coming to your own conclusion.

Posted: **Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:16 pm**

Dent-de-Lion wrote:Hello Friends!

-snipped unnecessary quote-

Posted: **Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:36 am**

ancamonica wrote:
MagikFingerz wrote:
badpete69 wrote:I am surprised that no one mentioned this deck was from Dent de lion after all that drama with the Leonardo decks.... I guess I won't stir the pot

If you feel like reminiscing hehehe viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6548&hilit=leonardo
Even if I wanted to back this deck (I don't), I'd stay away from this guy.
Why? I've got the Leonardo deck s from them previously and I still love them

ascamonica read this entire thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6548&hilit=leonardo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. You'll get your answers there and why you should stay away from dent-de-lion

Posted: **Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:42 am**

Dent-de-Lion wrote:Hello Friends!

We’ve had a lot of interesting questions from UC backers the last days about our project MERLIN • Illuminations, and I have been answering them individually over PM… when one superbacker suggested that these questions and answers would be of interest generally to our forum. So let’s do it!

Question : I’m a fellow 3D Artist and read about you (I’ve seen your bio on teethoftheLion.com) and I would like to know more detail about your workflow. Could you please share this with me?

I would be glad to. The work starts off in ZBrush where the main characters are developed. Virtually everything you see in this project is sculptural, all meticulously modelled in three dimensions.

Screen Shot 2019-07-30 at 3.14.32 PM.png
Each object is meticulously modeled in ‘digital wax”, a wonderful surface to capture details.

Screen Shot 2019-07-30 at 3.15.51 PM.png
During the modeling process, I frequently convert him to silver metal, to achieve the desired look.

Screen Shot 2019-07-30 at 3.16.44 PM.png
There are no painted textures, it’s all pure geometry, and all the objects are completely modelled front and back, even though that won’t be seen on the cards (but it will on the 3D model prints that are coming soon!)

Screen Shot 2019-07-30 at 3.17.36 PM.png
Next, I pose the characters using two different tools, DAZ and Zbrush depending on the complexity of the pose needed. Each court card has a character, a prop (sword, flowers, etc) and the Shield of their House. So there are LOTS of models! Everything is tracked in a small DB, it’s important to be very orderly in such a huge undertaking.

When everything is posed correctly and assembled together - I then use GOZ to get the work into Keyshot - one of three renderer engines I work with. I chose Keyshot over Maxwell Render and Cinema 4D Pro Render for speed and simplicity of use, for this project has a lot of similar setups between cards of course.

The final group sculptures are then rendered in Keyshot at 16x (!) the size of standard poker cards to ensure superior fidelity. This is critical to achieve the best results for the final card prints, and eliminates moires, and aliasing defects.

Photoshop serves as an end station to composite the cards for print in CMYK.

I hope this gives you some insight into the processes used to produce MERLIN • Illuminations.

Please let me know if you have any other questions about my work.

Kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion
Art Playing Cards

See avatar.

Posted: **Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:04 am**

Hey Everyone who is interested in actual conversation,

Thanks to all the new backers who said hello on Kickstarter! Some of you we know very well from our previous Glitch, Leonardo, and 1001 Nights campaigns, and it’s just like seeing an old friend… and so many interesting questions!

So this from J. (a superbacker and cardistry enthusiast)

Question : Why did you choose to go with borderless backs with merlin? I’m rather agnostic about the choice between borders and borderless, but was curious about your decision. Also, what inspired the design for the back, it’s medieval, yet also somehow modern.

: Merlin-Card-Backs-300-07.png (788.67 KiB) Viewed 1933 times

First let’s start with the borderless decision. This is always a huge decision and one a card designer can never take lightly. I’ve always felt that bordered cards look like “playing cards” - it’s the standard for playability for sure. There is something “official” about bordered cards.

Borderless is another thing entirely. They just feel more “artistic” and give the designer a little more room to create in. For MERLIN • Illuminations I designed both bordered and borderless backs at first, and after careful consultations with my daughter (and fellow designer), we just knew that borderless was the way to go. While we design our cards for playability, we are well aware that they are generally seen as “collectables” and brought out only for special occasions, they are not normally used for serious friday poker nights!

Moving onto the design part of your question, the initial inspiration came from a few sources… medieval tracery, filigree, and early silversmithing work I have long been interested in. People of this time were obsessed with Life and Death, as it was much nearer to them than us. So I knew I wanted to combine the life force of Nature with the instruments of death at this time…. Swords!

Like all of MERLIN • Illuminations, the back is entirely made up of 3D models. A lot of 3D models! It was quite a process to get them all to fit together in a coherent way, and on top of that… to be 100% symmetrical! I would estimate it took about a month to get the backs done, this is all Zbrush.

Oh, and one other thing for today, yes we are now offering Uncut Sheets by popular demand.

Kind regards,

Dent-de-Lion

UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

MERLIN • Illuminations / Live KS

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