Origins - Shadows of History by Rick Davidson

[Bruno]

Rick's update/news ....
Good gear !

[rousselle]

I'm a little surprised that this project isn't getting more love.

Although, it *has* already funded over $23,000. Is it possible that combining the two different decks is making the goal too high?

That said, I love the added spiffs being offered to big backers. Now... how do we improve the chances of this one to fund?

[sinjin7]

My mind is boggled that this hasn't funded yet as well. Maybe Rick needs to promote this more aggressively. As far as I can tell, he's just been sending out Updates but hasn't been doing any cross-promotions with other decks on KS. I think he should hit up Kardify and Max Playing Cards for additional promotion as well. If he's able to get that limited edition deck out, I'm sure that will boost pledges as well.

[Azid]

This one launched the same day as Arthurian...
Arthurian has a a lot of criticism but it's still going strong up to 60k USD.
Origins with lots of positive feedback has problems to fund with 35k NZD (~24k USD) ???

I don't get it !

[TGunitedcardists]

I think one of the problems is sticker shock with the NZ dollar, especially with the add-ons. Projects that don't start in USD add an extra layer of difficulty.

It's hard to compare Jackson Robinson's reach, as he sends out an email blast to all previous backers and BOOM...funded.

[shaitani]

This one better fund man, I'm looking forward to this more than most Kickstarters in the last few months.

I hope the limited editions help push it close to or over the goal.

[Bikefanatic]

You gotta do what you gotta do, time to up the pledge.

[RichK]

I don't know if Rick is super busy tweaking the deck but I asked about adding on a Rouen booklet since I pledged for a pair and don't get the book for free. He said he'd add it to the add-on list but it's not on there 3 days later. Not good if you want people to pledge you more money.

Cross promoting should be done too. I don't know if he did this with his other decks but it can't hurt. I want this to fund.

[RickDavidson]

Hey guys Sorry I've been quiet here, it has been a super busy couple of weeks. Yes it's a tough grind, but totally what I expected. A lot of great decks to compete with and I had the same with the first campaign. There is a little confusion with the currency and the Rouen deck is something a little different. Sticking with the USPCC makes everything tighter on budget, but working hard on finalising the custom Black Label deck which I'm hoping to launch in the next couple of days.

I have been working hard on promoting the campaign in different places, and have some cross promoting lined up. You can always do more. Rich, sorry for the delay, will have that booklet up tonight, the Black Label has been time consuming.

Thanks for the support in the campaign, you guys rock.

[Mike Ratledge]

Rick, at this point it's super important to get the new items out there and available so you can pump up the numbers. Time is not your friend here, the sooner the better as far as that goes. With Ukraine ten days left, you need a shot in the arm...

[Gareth]

Update (#9) from Rick just come out.

A quick summary;

• Rouen deck now going LPCC (was USPCC)
• Black Label Deck available for $92 ($65USD) from 5am ET (9am GMT) - less than 90 minutes.

To me looks like a quick cash grab, as Mike sort of suggested. (Presumably moving the LPCC gives a bit more wiggle room in the budget for the Black decks).

BTW: 1 Early Bird Brick now available (thanks for making my finances easier Rick!).

[sinjin7]

I have to say I'm not happy about the change to LPCC on the Rouen deck, now we're likely to see fulfillment delayed waiting on the Taiwanese/Chinese printer, in addition to having the Rouen deck warp on you once you open it. I guess you have to do what you have to do to try to get funded. There's no question about the art and design, this deck should've easily funded and then some. But I think this project was mismanaged in that it wasn't properly promoted right from the start. Now it just feels like desperate scrambling at the end, hopefully it won't be a case of too little too late.

[sms69x]

This is a very poor move from Rick... (I would prefer that he cancel the campaign than doing this money grab..)

So in order to get this funded he just goes with the flow of everyone else and just throws in a fancy tuck to get this funded.... very bad played..
Also going with LPCC for the Rouen deck kills it for me... I will most likely drop my pledge... As by the way this is looking this deck is going to barely fund and I guess we will be able to get these in the after market for a even better deal...

This one has the potential for the best deck of the year, but if we got the "Worst KS campaign" category I guess this one could win too...

[shermjack]

Wow! I can't believe all the negativity just because Rick added an additional limited deck (which he said he would be doing) and switched one of the decks from USPCC to LPCC.

I don't recall anyone complaining when Lorenzo offered his Limited Decks for No 17 or Le Chat Rouge, which were also tuck swaps. Nor do I understand how this can be a money grab. Just like Rick explained, as with Lorenzo's decks also, there are extra expenses incurred in making these limited decks (including having to have the decks sent to NZ, then Rick's time in making each tuck and then sending them back out). With shipping costs these days, I don't see how Rick could make that much money off of these.

As for worst run campaign, that's a little harsh, don't you think? I am sure that Rick tried his best to attract more backers, but despite his best efforts he is a little short of his goal, so like all other project creators, he offered another add-on (which again, he talked about a couple weeks ago) to try and get the project funded. How does that make it a bad campaign? What other reasons are there for this being such a bad campaign?

In regards to the switch from USPCC to LPCC for the Rouen deck, I guess I can understand the disgruntlement from some, but again, it is not the end of the world as LPCC still produces excellent decks. Plus the fact that many of my USPCC decks have the click bend as well, there is no guarantee with either company in the deck will be click bend free. Maybe Rick will offer tiers that have only multiple Bicycle decks so you can still get them without getting the LPCC deck...won't hurt to ask.

In the end, you have a choice of which decks to back or not back and you can express your opinion by how you pledge, but I really don't think that Rick's move deserves such harsh treatment for trying to get his project funded and produced within his budget.

[vasta41]

I am also not happy about the change in printers. But the way I see it (and the way I've ALWAYS seen it with any project in KS), a creator has two options when faced with a campaign that might not fund: sacrifice the "bells and whistles" to lower the funding goal and in turn the production costs while having the "it's better to have my deck created without the bling than to not have it created at all" attitude. OR make no sacrifices and stay the course with the "I'd rather not see my deck created than sacrifice my initial vision" attitude. As much as I love USPCC printing, I personally think what good is USPCC printing if the deck can't be created? I'd rather see LPCC print a deck than have no deck at all.
As for the money grab I would normally agree with that if the project were already funded. But the fact that the project isn't funded yet makes me believe that Rick is just trying to do anything he can to get these decks funded. And I don't know how anyone could fault him for that. JR does these money grabs after the project is already 150% funded. Screw that. This is not that (that I can see).

[badpete69]

Wow. When you stop collecting you get out of touch quick... There's a black deck?

[rousselle]

A limited edition, spiffed out black tuck. Looks very nice. Just announced in the wee hours this morning. $65 add-on, I think. Did you not back Origins - Shadows of History?

Tsk.

[badpete69]

I did but i do not read any updates and barely make it here

[ecNate]

Reminder, he's only stating he MAY switch to Legends, but will consider staying with USPCC if the funding level is high enough. Given that as of this moment we are now at $24,135 of $24,645 goal in USD with 5 days to go I think there's a good chance of that happening. Especially if those that may have bailed come back. There was a HUGE increase because of new deck I'm sure. Possibly some 'self-funded' efforts as well, but I'm totally OK with that given it's Rick and not some shady person.

[Bikefanatic]

I'm the guy that doesn't care which of the top 3 companies make the decks when funded. My mind's occupied on other things until the decks are delivered. I rather wait when things are done completely right instead of it being rushed or not the actual product promised.

On the original Origins thread I think I mentioned about seeing a maroon tuck in the future. Looks like that will come true (Rouen deck).

[Talisman]

I'm the guy that doesn't care which of the top 3 companies make the decks when funded. My mind's occupied on other things until the decks are delivered. I rather wait when things are done completely right instead of it being rushed or not the actual product promised.

+1

[Bikefanatic]

I didn't pledge for the Black Label. I'm sure the final product will look great but some reason it's not jumping out at me though I can change my mind.

I don't mind extra or special decks but those are another reason delivery could be delayed by sending all the decks made by different companies together though I know it's best for keeping shipping cost low. I can wait.

[Gareth]

Reminder, he's only stating he MAY switch to Legends, but will consider staying with USPCC if the funding level is high enough.

Interestingly, we've just discovered that the updates can be edited. The update e-mail that I received says

As part of the adjustments to the campaign I have reassigned the production of the Rouen 1567 deck to the Legends Playing Card Co. who did amazing jobs of my last two decks in the JP Games LUXX series (check them out). The option to print with the USPCC remains an option if funded ...

The current wording on KS sounds quite different, which says

As part of the adjustments to the campaign, for the Rouen 1567 deck only, I will select between the USPCC and the Legends Playing Card Co. who did amazing jobs of my last two decks in the JP Games LUXX series (check them out)

As I started this little bunfight, I should address;

... a creator has two options when faced with a campaign that might not fund: sacrifice the "bells and whistles" to lower the funding goal and in turn the production costs while having the "it's better to have my deck created without the bling than to not have it created at all" attitude. OR make no sacrifices and stay the course with the "I'd rather not see my deck created than sacrifice my initial vision" attitude....

Nothing you said is wrong, except of course the creator can't change the goal after the campaign has started. They can only change what you're going to get for the money you pledge. By reducing his costs (printing with LPCC), Rick has reduced the value of the pledges in my opinion (others, undoubtedly disagree), and therefore I altered what I was willing to pay.

Don't get be wrong, it's not like Rick suddenly moved production to MPC or NPCC... However, I do find that some creators appear quite liberal with what some may find quite material changes to their project.

This project has reached the goal now. (undoubtedly 100 x $92 - if all the limited decks sold - would easily make this fund).. it will be interesting to see what happens from now.

[sinjin7]

I don't mind that Rick came out with an "ultra-limited" edition that is merely a tuck swap. I get that there are a lot of collectors out there that are basically tuck box collectors since they never open their decks, so they don't care if the cards inside their blinged out tucks are identical to the standard editions, or even printed by a crappier printer for that matter. As its been mentioned, I'm not forced to buy it, and I usually don't. For me, an exclusive "limited" edition should be differentiated by the cards inside as well as a blinged out tuck. I have no problems buying those for the collection. But there is obviously a market for those tuck box collectors, so it makes real-world economic sense to cater to them as well, especially if they're easily parted with a lot of their money for just a fancy tuck.

My issue with the limited edition is actually that he didn't offer them from the start so that his project could've started off with a bigger bang and had more momentum from the start. This is part of the project mismanagement I was referring to, in addition to not promoting and marketing this deck in a more aggressive manner. Rick's original Origins decks are some of my most favorite decks in my collection, and I really wanted to see these decks blow past it's funding goal as fast as possible so that we could entertain the possibility of stretch goals such as MetalLuxe. Instead, it looks like this project is going to just barely fund in its final days, which is a shame for its missed potential.

As for the switch in printers, when KS project creators do that in the middle or towards the end of their campaigns (or God forbid, after the campaign has ended), it always smells and tastes like a bait and switch to me. (Granted, this is nothing like the bait and switch that Jackson pulled on us with his Legal Tender campaign where he promised holographic foiling and charged accordingly, and then after the campaign ends he decides not to use holographic foil, or any foil at all, and then used the Chinese printer instead of the Taiwanese printer to boot.) And I know some people are big enough fans of LPCC that they actually prefer it over the USPCC so they don't mind. But for me, and many others, it would be a disappointment to see a printer switch. When I first read the Update, I got the impression that Rick was definitely switching to the Taiwanese (Chinese?) printer, but I'm glad to see that he still may stay with the USPCC. In my opinion, keeping everything with the USPCC will result in better quality, consistency across both versions, and faster fulfillment so I hope that will be the case.

[vasta41]

By reducing his costs (printing with LPCC), Rick has reduced the value of the pledges in my opinion...

...for me, and many others, it would be a disappointment to see a printer switch. When I first read the Update, I got the impression that Rick was definitely switching to the Taiwanese (Chinese?) printer, but I'm glad to see that he still may stay with the USPCC. In my opinion, keeping everything with the USPCC will result in better quality, consistency across both versions, and faster fulfillment so I hope that will be the case.

Both great points. I would like to see (and will probably end up seeing) USPCC printing because A) I'm a sucker for USPCC and B) because it is a better value (IMO I guess?). This is all hypothetical now that the project is funded but let's pretend there were 4 days left and 25% more to go. Rick saw the writing on the wall and figured that the campaign wouldn't fund as-is. What if he took a poll and stated, "this project doesn't look like it will fund and I cannot pay out-of-pocket to complete it. Would you rather I scrap this project or use a cheaper printer in order to see this project to fruition?" I would be curious to see how many people would vote for LPCC printing. I would be hesitant because I would want nothing more than for these to be printed by USPCC but ultimately I would vote for LPCC printing over nothing at all (if that were the choice. I realize now the point is moot).
Maybe sinjin is right- maybe the project wasn't advertised properly. Or maybe it could have started off with the black ed. add-ons. Who knows why this struggled.. especially after how good the 1st editions were. Either way I'm glad things turned out the way they did.

[badpete69]

I don't mind that Rick came out with an "ultra-limited" edition that is merely a tuck swap. I get that there are a lot of collectors out there that are basically tuck box collectors since they never open their decks, so they don't care if the cards inside their blinged out tucks are identical to the standard editions, or even printed by a crappier printer for that matter. As its been mentioned, I'm not forced to buy it, and I usually don't. For me, an exclusive "limited" edition should be differentiated by the cards inside as well as a blinged out tuck. I have no problems buying those for the collection. But there is obviously a market for those tuck box collectors, so it makes real-world economic sense to cater to them as well, especially if they're easily parted with a lot of their money for just a fancy tuck.

Please tell us how you really feel about tuck collectors hahahaha I get that it's not your thing. But this strategy has been used in other hobby like comic book collecting. How many times did comics have a variant cover with the same comic book inside but it always sold out and the variant cover edition was always more expensive on the reseller market. To me the tuck is an important part of the overall product, so a tuck swap is a different product overall. I do open some of my decks not all but these I consider collector's item. Anyway each collector has different views and that's what makes the hobby great.

By the way it is now limited to 150 not 100

[Conturbia]

I don't understand the hate: if you don't want to get the special version, just don't pledge for that. I really can't see the problem: if it's not your cup of tea.. don't drink it, it may be good for others.

Am I wrong?

[RichK]

I don't understand the hate: if you don't want to get the special version, just don't pledge for that. I really can't see the problem: if it's not your cup of tea.. don't drink it, it may be good for others.

Am I wrong?

You're correct on the "don't want it, don't buy it" point. I think part of the problem is that it was introduced half way through the campaign and it's just a different tuck box (really fancy pull tab way of opening in my opinion). I'm guessing Rick was working out the details and didn't want to announce it until it was doable. If he had mentioned it at the beginning as a possibility I don't feel there would be such a reaction.

Bottom line, they are funded, and he's asking USPCC for pricing again.

[vasta41]

Bottom line, they are funded, and he's asking USPCC for pricing again.

Fingers crossed.

[shaitani]

People on this forum are pretty weird in that sense. Some people defend to their deaths the ability for artists to do tuck swaps, and some regard it as a war crime. E.g. the New Zealand deck had like 2 tuck swaps added in the campaign, and someone complained, and everyone attacked them. This project people seem to be hating on the addition of a single limited tuck swap.

Yeah maybe it's the time at which it was added, or the cost, or the surprise. But really, it's very hard to say when people will become outraged, and that has to be annoying for artists who probably feel "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for every tough decision they have to make.