Tally-Ho - Kings Wild Project Edition - Live

[MagikFingerz]

Those look great, Jackson. The thick font adds visibility, yet they're narrow and close to the edge which should result in good fans/spreads.

Well done

[sinjin7]

Apparently, unlike others, I've hoarded up bricks of Ohio Q1 Tally Ho Circle Backs. At about $2 per deck, these Tallys were true staple decks that could be everyday users due to the low price point. These Ohio Tallys had all the cost benefits of mass production, but had a higher degree of quality control than Rider Backs. The absolute best bang for your cardistry buck. The Ohio Q1 versions are definitely the ones to own over the softer, Kentucky versions that are produced today.

I was super excited when I saw the gold and blue King's Wild Tallys, I'm less enthusiastic about the monochrome blue version. At $8 per deck, this isn't going to be anyone's staple user deck. I'll pick up a few just for the sake of my collection, but I'll wait for the gold and blue version to come out and go to town then.

[chach]

I was super excited when I saw the gold and blue King's Wild Tallys, I'm less enthusiastic about the monochrome blue version. At $8 per deck, this isn't going to be anyone's staple user deck. I'll pick up a few just for the sake of my collection, but I'll wait for the gold and blue version to come out and go to town then.

+1 to this.

[JacksonRobinson]

Apparently, unlike others, I've hoarded up bricks of Ohio Q1 Tally Ho Circle Backs. At about $2 per deck, these Tallys were true staple decks that could be everyday users due to the low price point. These Ohio Tallys had all the cost benefits of mass production, but had a higher degree of quality control than Rider Backs. The absolute best bang for your cardistry buck. The Ohio Q1 versions are definitely the ones to own over the softer, Kentucky versions that are produced today.

I was super excited when I saw the gold and blue King's Wild Tallys, I'm less enthusiastic about the monochrome blue version. At $8 per deck, this isn't going to be anyone's staple user deck. I'll pick up a few just for the sake of my collection, but I'll wait for the gold and blue version to come out and go to town then.

Well we both would be living in a pipe dream if we ever thought I would be able to compete with both price and production quantity of the old Tally's and or Rider Backs. But I feel great that I can offer a fully custom deck for $8 bucks.

The Navy and Gold back will definitely not be your staple deck as they will be the LTD version and I will only sale around 1000 of those. I'm not sure I've every seen a a fully custom USPCC deck with metallic gold ink on front and back for $2 a deck.

[sprouts1115]

Let me see. Court cards without borders, but he took it almost to no man land. I don't think he can go another pixel toward the cut border without USPCC bitching. Behold this is probably the biggest court image you can get. He did his own interpretation to the courts including the expressions on the faces, but kept all the original symbolism i.e suicide king. This kind of breaks the mold, but in a real subtle way. These cards should do very well. I would not do a limited series. Who knows these cards might become the standard. What? No skinny club. I thought you liked skinny clubs. Jackson you are full of surprises. Love the Orb...

[Godzillian]

I hope this comes out in red. I heard magicians prefer red decks because it catches the spectator's eye more easily.

[sinjin7]

Well we both would be living in a pipe dream if we ever thought I would be able to compete with both price and production quantity of the old Tally's and or Rider Backs. But I feel great that I can offer a fully custom deck for $8 bucks.

The Navy and Gold back will definitely not be your staple deck as they will be the LTD version and I will only sale around 1000 of those. I'm not sure I've every seen a a fully custom USPCC deck with metallic gold ink on front and back for $2 a deck.

Don't get me wrong, I guess we're in the age where $8 for a well designed, fully customized deck is considered low, my point was that we're not likely to see many people using these in Torn & Restored routines or flower fans at that price point. The closest USPCC analogy to this deck would be the Titanium Tallys with foiled and embossed tucks and metallic ink on the cards for $4.95, and those are mass produced and not fully custom, so if we can get the KW Tallys delivered for $8, that's fair.

I'm very sad to hear you're limiting the LTD Tallys to only 1000 decks. I was hoping for a brick or two, but that may not be likely now....

[chach]

FYI It was stated on the other forum that the price point was $8 PLUS shipping. But that may change between now and when they're launched.

[JacksonRobinson]

FYI It was stated on the other forum that the price point was $8 PLUS shipping. But that may change between now and when they're launched.

Nah! It will remain the same.

1 deck $8 plus shipping
1 brick $90 plus shipping
1 gross $1000 plus shipping

[vasta41]

So I'm not complaining here because I will buy this deck and the gold one, hopefully if they're not too expensive or exclusive. By the way, are all of them considered Turtle backs? Anyway, when I buy a deck or decks of playing cards online, I always look at the total amount I spent including shipping. If a $5 deck ends up costing me $9 total, I won't say to myself, "Hey- I just got a $5 deck!" More like, "I just spent $9 on a deck that should be $5, oh well." And trust me, I know- that's the cost of this hobby and you either pay it or don't.
So saying $8 INCLUDING shipping doesn't really tell me anything. I agree- awesome price point and great bang for you buck. But at the end of the day, what's this deck REALLY gonna cost me to get to my front door?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, percentage wise we're spending more on shipping on a cheaper deck then on a more expensive deck which kind of stings a bit. But not enough for me to not get some.

[sprouts1115]

I have to say I'm disappointed by those huge indices. Face up fans will not look pretty with those, and knowing that all of his future "standard" decks will have those make me sad

Courts look great though.

@MagikFingerz - I don't know. It looks like he elongated the rank index. I'm thinking I could probably see it better on a table. Now If he elongated the suit index a little father down you could probably see it at a distance and get rid of that...

Screenshot 2014-07-08 20.02.47.png (14.12 KiB) Viewed 2151 times

big old fat suit badge usually on the top left. I don't know it has always seem to be pretty redundant. It would leave room for more for art like beard rolls. lol

Screenshot 2014-07-08 20.03.11.png (14.99 KiB) Viewed 2151 times

Just think he could get his skinny club back. I know he likes skinny clubs...

Screenshot 2014-07-08 20.38.29.png (30.39 KiB) Viewed 2151 times

$8 a deck? We are use to $12 and it's banging to $15. Sound like he is doing a 1000 LE with Gold metallic inks on front and back with a tricked up tuck box. If so, his LE decks seem to be at cost. Don't see much profit there.

[hikeeba]

Any way to get these traditionally cut?

[chach]

FYI It was stated on the other forum that the price point was $8 PLUS shipping. But that may change between now and when they're launched.

Nah! It will remain the same.

1 deck $8 plus shipping
1 brick $90 plus shipping
1 gross $1000 plus shipping

Cool. I just wanted to help clear things up cause I could already hear people saying, "But Jackson said it was going to be $8. Not $8 plus shipping. Give me my pitchfork!"

Still a good deal IMO, I've paid more for stuff that's not nearly as good.

[Sher]

$8 a deck? We are use to $12 and it's banging to $15. Sound like he is doing a 1000 LE with Gold metallic inks on front and back with a tricked up tuck box. If so, his LE decks seem to be at cost. Don't see much profit there.

I think it's $8 + shipping for the standard. I'm not sure he mentioned a price for the LE versions yet.

[Mike Ratledge]

I have to say I'm disappointed by those huge indices. Face up fans will not look pretty with those, and knowing that all of his future "standard" decks will have those make me sad

Courts look great though.

@MagikFingerz - I don't know. It looks like he elongated the rank index. I'm thinking I could probably see it better on a table. Now If he elongated the suit index a little father down you could probably see it at a distance and get rid of that...

Screenshot 2014-07-08 20.02.47.png

big old fat suit badge usually on the top left. I don't know it has always seem to be pretty redundant. It would leave room for more for art like beard rolls. lol

Screenshot 2014-07-08 20.03.11.png

Just think he could get his skinny club back. I know he likes skinny clubs...

Screenshot 2014-07-08 20.38.29.png

$8 a deck? We are use to $12 and it's banging to $15. Sound like he is doing a 1000 LE with Gold metallic inks on front and back with a tricked up tuck box. If so, his LE decks seem to be at cost. Don't see much profit there.

Despite what he alleges, the production of these decks costs some $5 or less per unit, and anything beyond that is simply a money grab from his fans. That is not a service nor a desire to be a 'standard' - it is his cash cow. If he produces in them in sufficient quantities as he has stated to make them anything close to a 'standard' deck, the price is more like $3-$4 per unit. 100% to 166% profit margins? I wish I could get away with such a thing without being pilloried in public. Of course he has to pay for shipping+handling, just like anyone else, so for single units, there is no such markup, but for bricks? 12x$3 = $36. He has already stated that he will be adding shipping to the $8 per deck and bricks, so the markup is pretty accurate. I'm sure he will think of something to turn this around into something positive, but in reality it is again just not realistic in his expectations.

Your mileage WILL vary. Move along - nothing to see here.

[montecarlojoe]

Compared with the larger competitors:

Ellusionist $6-$7 for their staple decks
T11 - $5-$7 for thier staples
D&D - $5-$8 for staples (as low as $3 for a basic bee or tally)
CARC - $6 - $8

JR could stand to come down a dollar or 2 per deck for the staple edition to remain competative, but $8 is probably reasonable for a limited launch edition.

[bamabenz]

Despite what he alleges, the production of these decks costs some $5 or less per unit, and anything beyond that is simply a money grab from his fans. That is not a service nor a desire to be a 'standard' - it is his cash cow. If he produces in them in sufficient quantities as he has stated to make them anything close to a 'standard' deck, the price is more like $3-$4 per unit. 100% to 166% profit margins? I wish I could get away with such a thing without being pilloried in public. Of course he has to pay for shipping+handling, just like anyone else, so for single units, there is no such markup, but for bricks? 12x$3 = $36. He has already stated that he will be adding shipping to the $8 per deck and bricks, so the markup is pretty accurate. I'm sure he will think of something to turn this around into something positive, but in reality it is again just not realistic in his expectations.

Your mileage WILL vary. Move along - nothing to see here.

I'm not sure what you beef is. As has been stated before, a business without a cash cow isn't much of a business.
A 50% markup over production isn't outrageous, its not even a profit margin, as there are other costs to doing business.

It all comes down to the cards. Beautiful cards with wide availability so you can feel free to use them and lose them will always have a place in the market. Porche makes limited availability cars that are so precious that people don't actually drive them. But they make plenty of 911's that people with the means buy, drive and trade-in every couple of years.

Jackson makes cards like the Fed 52 Limited that people buy and never take out of the tuck. These look to me like staples in that they are intended to actually be used.

Of course, if he doesn't keep them in stock they'll end-up as safe queens like the Fed 52 decks.

/bama

[sinjin7]

Compared with the larger competitors:

Ellusionist $6-$7 for their staple decks
T11 - $5-$7 for thier staples
D&D - $5-$8 for staples (as low as $3 for a basic bee or tally)
CARC - $6 - $8

JR could stand to come down a dollar or 2 per deck for the staple edition to remain competative, but $8 is probably reasonable for a limited launch edition.

I think this is a fair comparison. Jackson has to charge a little more since he can't compete with the big boys in terms of volume of production. I want to wait to see the final tuck box before I make judgment as to whether the KW Tallys are overpriced or not.

There's not many things that annoy me more than when people try to make a profit off of shipping. They'll advertise a fair price for their product, but then rape you with shipping as their "hidden" margin to pad profits. Since the $8 is NOT inclusive of the shipping, let's see if Jackson's going to further pad the bottom line with excess shipping costs.

[JacksonRobinson]

Shipping will Be as follows:

1st Initial Deck is

$4 Dom
$10 Int

Each additional Deck up to 1 Brick is

$1 Dom
$2 Int

So in the end your first deck is $12/$18 and every other deck up to a brick is $9/$10 including shipping.

[Godzillian]

Shipping will Be as follows:

1st Initial Deck is

$4 Dom
$10 Int

Each additional Deck up to 1 Brick is

$1 Dom
$2 Int

So in the end your first deck is $12/$18 and every other deck up to a brick is $9/$10 including shipping.

I think Early Bird pricing is fair. Some will argue, but I'm content with the pricing. I believe $12 Domestic is the norm for crowd-funded decks. $18 for one INT deck is incredibly expensive though, even for a crowd-funded deck. However, $28 for 2 INT decks shipped is reasonable.

[Norbie]

I wish I had a "cash cow".

I love fresh milk.

[Mike Ratledge]

Guys, you all know Jackson is my buddy - big-time! He's just not being forthcoming here: there's no "Crowd Funding" involved - even if he changes the paradigm. Changing the name to "Funded" as opposed to "Project" doesn't "make it so", it's still retail sales - for now - and OF COURSE - he will be doing some CF style things as well (I don't keep up with it day-by-day right now, just too much to do).

If you go into Walmart and look at a 2-deck pair of red/blue 'standard' or whatever they call it this week - and it's $1.98 to $2.98 depending on when and where you are at the time. That's $24 per brick. I know he's not pumping out 500,000 of these decks, so he can't even come close to those 'economy of scale' numbers. Still, let's say they cost $4 each - and that's just to make it simple. That's $48 per brick. Now - that's VERY reasonable for anybody that isn't USPCC themselves pumping out 1000 decks in a minute or two. Those roll-fed Heidelberg presses don't wait for them to push the "Stop" button, they keep rolling (no pun intended) and could easily overprint by 25-30% at the minimum 2500 units per print run. Sheet fed works a good bit more precisely than "point and pull the trigger" style. They're not as fast of course, but they still pump out the decks like greased lightning.

[Godzillian]

Crap, these aren't crowd-funded!? Woops... I've misinformed myself yet again. Sigh...

[bhong]

Crap, these aren't crowd-funded!? Woops... I've misinformed myself yet again. Sigh...

These are definitely crowd-funded. If people aren't interested in it and the funding goal isn't met, they won't be printed. So I definitely encourage anyone interested in the deck to grab one to help meet the funding goal. I know it's easy to confuse things with Mike being busy with everything in his life at the moment such as CardLauncher, but I figured I'd step in to help clear that up as I tend to help Jackson with a lot of different things as an official member of his team. I don't have a hard date yet for when the KW Tally Hos are launching, but soon.

Shipping prices is as Jackson has listed. It's pretty comparable to everyone else (T11, D&D, E, etc) that covers cost postage, shipping material and time.

No Limited Editions at the time so the crowd funding project will be pretty straight forwards in decks (single, smaller multiples, brick and gross option). I'm looking forward to the deck so I hope it gets funded and printed.

If anyone else has any questions about this deck or any other Kings Wild stuff please feel free to email me at brendan@kingswildproject.com . I'm not always on the board and that's honestly the best way to get a hold of me to answer any questions.

[Mike Ratledge]

Crap, these aren't crowd-funded!? Woops... I've misinformed myself yet again. Sigh...

These are definitely crowd-funded. If people aren't interested in it and the funding goal isn't met, they won't be printed. So I definitely encourage anyone interested in the deck to grab one to help meet the funding goal. I know it's easy to confuse things with Mike being busy with everything in his life at the moment such as CardLauncher, but I figured I'd step in to help clear that up as I tend to help Jackson with a lot of different things as an official member of his team. I don't have a hard date yet for when the KW Tally Hos are launching, but soon.

Shipping prices is as Jackson has listed. It's pretty comparable to everyone else (T11, D&D, E, etc) that covers cost postage, shipping material and time.

No Limited Editions at the time so the crowd funding project will be pretty straight forwards in decks (single, smaller multiples, brick and gross option). I'm looking forward to the deck so I hope it gets funded and printed.

If anyone else has any questions about this deck or any other Kings Wild stuff please feel free to email me at brendan@kingswildproject.com . I'm not always on the board and that's honestly the best way to get a hold of me to answer any questions.

Brandan, I'm not even going to be argumentative because we're talking about a moving target. From "Day 1" when it was still KW Projects and within a week became KW Funded, the paradigm shifted from simply retail to one trying to be things to all people, and like we discussed by phone earlier today, it's impossible to be all things to all people nor can you please any group 100%: it's just impossible. If you poop gold bricks, one of the most vocal people in that target groups is going to want you to poop platinum instead. That's just the way (unfortunately) bidnez works, buddy. We're both businessmen, and we both know it's just impossible to please every single person, and that one that isn't happy automatically becomes the one screaming the loudest, simply because he's the only one with a voice at that time. Think about it, not just supposition, fact.

The bottom line here, on UC if you come with a bag of poop, I'm going to open up that can of worms and letting everybody here smell it. We're going to be dealing with facts here, not moving targets nor supposition, so if it changes in flight, I'm bound to be off a bit. If it walks like a duck, flies like a duck, talks like a duck and craps like a duck - I'm calling it a duck regardless of what it's being called at the moment as well as who is speaking, across the board, because (again), we speak about facts here - obviously subject to change at an instant and there we go. Quack, quack, quack. Simple enough?

[chach]

Why is everyone up in arms about an $8 price point? Yeah it's a bit high but do you really expect to pay riderback prices for a custom deck? Even Club 808 decks, which are designed and printed in house by USPCC go for 7.99 (on average) plus shipping. So, why not pay the same amount for a reworked and customized Tally-Ho deck designed by one of the biggest names in the playing card industry? Q Hell, a standard Tally-Ho deck goes for $5 retail. $3 more for a reworked one ain't bad.

And yes, those presses can churn out 1000's of decks at a time and run 24/7 if needed, and while this won't be a limited edition release, it's not going to be run at the same rate as the riderback decks are so one shouldn't expect to see the same bulk rates. This will be Jackson's first use of the Kings Wild funding platform, so yes it'll be crowd funded, just not through kickstarter or CL (which I still think of CraigsList instead of CardLauncher). But it won't be a run of tens of thousands I'm sure, but he's not limiting this release to just 1000 cards either (those come later). It'll be a Kings Wild staple deck, something that if someone wants one they can log onto his website and purchase without having to pay exorbitant amounts on eBay or other second market venues. But it won't be run in the same quantities as even the current Tally-Ho decks available for purchase.

So yeah, while I was a bit disappointed because I had hoped for a lower price point just like most others, when you take a step back and look at it $8 for a slightly customized deck isn't all that bad, especially when you take into account that Club 808 decks are $7.99 recently and regular Tally-Hos cost $4.99 a pack each. IMO I'd rather spend $12 shipped for one Jackson Robinson Tally-Ho deck than spend $15 for some of the crap that is out there on kickstarter. YMMV

[bamabenz]

Mike and Jackson now have competing business models, that's all. It will sort itself out.

/bama

[bhong]

Crap, these aren't crowd-funded!? Woops... I've misinformed myself yet again. Sigh...

These are definitely crowd-funded. If people aren't interested in it and the funding goal isn't met, they won't be printed. So I definitely encourage anyone interested in the deck to grab one to help meet the funding goal. I know it's easy to confuse things with Mike being busy with everything in his life at the moment such as CardLauncher, but I figured I'd step in to help clear that up as I tend to help Jackson with a lot of different things as an official member of his team. I don't have a hard date yet for when the KW Tally Hos are launching, but soon.

Shipping prices is as Jackson has listed. It's pretty comparable to everyone else (T11, D&D, E, etc) that covers cost postage, shipping material and time.

No Limited Editions at the time so the crowd funding project will be pretty straight forwards in decks (single, smaller multiples, brick and gross option). I'm looking forward to the deck so I hope it gets funded and printed.

If anyone else has any questions about this deck or any other Kings Wild stuff please feel free to email me at brendan@kingswildproject.com . I'm not always on the board and that's honestly the best way to get a hold of me to answer any questions.

Brandan, I'm not even going to be argumentative because we're talking about a moving target. From "Day 1" when it was still KW Projects and within a week became KW Funded, the paradigm shifted from simply retail to one trying to be things to all people, and like we discussed by phone earlier today, it's impossible to be all things to all people nor can you please any group 100%: it's just impossible. If you poop gold bricks, one of the most vocal people in that target groups is going to want you to poop platinum instead. That's just the way (unfortunately) bidnez works, buddy. We're both businessmen, and we both know it's just impossible to please every single person, and that one that isn't happy automatically becomes the one screaming the loudest, simply because he's the only one with a voice at that time. Think about it, not just supposition, fact.

The bottom line here, on UC if you come with a bag of poop, I'm going to open up that can of worms and letting everybody here smell it. We're going to be dealing with facts here, not moving targets nor supposition, so if it changes in flight, I'm bound to be off a bit. If it walks like a duck, flies like a duck, talks like a duck and craps like a duck - I'm calling it a duck regardless of what it's being called at the moment as well as who is speaking, across the board, because (again), we speak about facts here - obviously subject to change at an instant and there we go. Quack, quack, quack. Simple enough?

Hey Mike,

I probably missed the business call and you got some other Brendan Hong 'cause I pretty much had a phone free day yesterday at the office. I rarely talk to people on the phone (I skipped that phone craze in the 90s). Your best bet to reach me would be via my personal cellphone that only friends and family members have.

And I LOVE ducks. Best animals in the world, well 4th or 5th best. They quack and quack and quack some more. They're like informal penguins that can fly.

Mike and Jackson now have competing business models, that's all. It will sort itself out.

/bama

[montecarlojoe]

If they say it's crowd funding then it is - if it relies on pledges to reach a target to produce a product then that's that - what they call it is irellevant. It could be called "KW Unicorn Workshop" and it wouldn't matter.

My previous post was a simple comparison - but I actually think, for what it is the price and shipping is absolutely reasonable - if the deck becomes a mass printed $4 staple then we'll still have a dated first printing.

MIKE - would you please curb any tangential poop-filled rants? I'd hate to have to moderate da boss.


PS. Ducks are awesome.

[Maddest Hammer]

It could be called "KW Unicorn Workshop" and it wouldn't matter.

Jackson's making unicorns now?!? AWESOME!!!

BTW, Unicorns>>>>Ducks. Just sayin'