UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:36 am The business model evolving into a ton of variations of expensive gilded decks running into the hundreds simply doesn’t have the deep pocket audience to sustain.

This was NOT a true statement a few years ago.

Indeed - but things did get out of hand fast.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 1:11 pm I would argue that a niche hobby needs new products to drive interest and excitement the same way it needs newcomers to the hobby. Which i think, theoretically, is the reason we've seen a drop off in the cards market. Less new folks coming into the hobby--at least in comparison to the amount of collectors leaving it.

That is a good argument - certainly great new products can be a boon to any hobby, new Superman movies drive superman collectibles and keep them relevant for the next generation.

But it doesn’t change the equation - the market cannot simply extract gilded tariff in ever increasing monthly quantities as more new producers come into play, many with aspirations of having that be their full time job.

It becomes burdensome to new collectors - many of which spend a ton on limited gilded thinking they will skyrocket in value and they do not, which pushes them out of the hobby just as well as not enough new decks to chase.

People have been collecting cards for a long time, and like any other collectible the popularity goes up and down over the years - wait for a down year, when people are abandoning the hobby and snatch up all the cheap great decks you can - a price crash isn’t bad if its temporary and shakes some fruit loose.

This hobby does not live in the moment - and it has weathered many storms.

That being said - I do spend bucks supporting artists I like, and it would pain me no end if they went away - but the equation and the reality aren’t going to change. People will spend big bucks for super duper awesome hits all the right notes with them thing - and nothing less, at least not for long. And even then, they can only afford some of that.

It is up to the long haul card producer to either plan on it being a second income, or busting the “super duper awesome” barrier often. I would imagine that Kings WIld or T11 type marketing chops are required to really make the full time equation into a big money operation rather than a struggle to produce art and hopefully make a living.

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:57 am

Fenrir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:04 am

vasta41 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:45 am This project is being advertised on the P52 homepage. I'd love to know how that got up so quickly but why the site rotted for a month or so a few months back?

There are community members who are not Alex who help with P52.

I'd imagine that's a paid ad on the site. Who is handling the money for that if not Alex?

I actually think the opposite. I think it’s an unpaid ad to showcase a deck.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:20 am (Goldsmith for me has broken even only recently and Beetle Backs' profitability is still in question).

Sorry to hijack the discussion, but I'm really glad you've broken even with Goldsmith, despite currently only selling less than 300 out of 1000 sets. I guess that's the advantage of keeping it simple? Lesser plates and print runs and all. The only problem is convincing more people to pay the price for what it is. I hope WJPC really elevates the foiling, despite the downgrade in stock.

I'm superstoke to finally get it after a year of waiting.

Disenchanted_11 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:30 pm

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:20 am (Goldsmith for me has broken even only recently and Beetle Backs' profitability is still in question).

Sorry to hijack the discussion, but I'm really glad you've broken even with Goldsmith, despite currently only selling less than 300 out of 1000 sets. I guess that's the advantage of keeping it simple? Lesser plates and print runs and all. The only problem is convincing more people to pay the price for what it is. I hope WJPC really elevates the foiling, despite the downgrade in stock.

I'm superstoke to finally get it after a year of waiting.

I should specify that “breaking even” means neither Kevin nor I have made a red cent for our work on the project. Additionally we printed 750 units rather than 1000 to keep costs down. The original 1000 print run would’ve been more out of pocket. It also doesn’t include fulfillment costs—which admittedly will be less since it’s “only”300 sold. Really “breaking even” was the wrong way to say. I should have said Goldsmith has only now paid for its production.

I am a relative newb but not a complete newb as my collection started with a selection of marked decks such as The Butterfly Treasure set back in 2018.

I come from a book background and it has come to the fore of late. I have never understand why most people only buy the latest releases when in all likelihood any one year probably only represents 1% of the best from the last century.
Of late, I have not been overly impressed with recent deck releases, maybe in part because I like B+W more than gold and gilding, so I have been hunting out decks from the last decade that I prefer
Occasionally I will pay up to 4 times what they were released for but I obviously set my limit based on appeal, availability etc. International shipping can be the bigger problem nowadays and it is hurting the industry
(The world seems to be accepting the current price gouging by some industries like shipping and all forms of insurance)

I have never bought a deck as an investment/with any thought of reselling
Great decks are little works of art but they are relatively cheap to produce
Look at the elaborate packaging that comes with some supermarket products which wrap an item that is only a couple of dollars in total (see pic for an example) I know this is not an example of art and I do not wish to be disrespectful, just to show how they produce embossed, metallic ink packaging like this for mere cents

I am not talking about KS but some designer/retailers ask absolutely absurd prices for decks (not TGW)
Very Limited releases are generally pure market manipulation aiming to take advantage of people with a collecting bug
It is somewhat similar to the art world where you can buy limited edition prints of an original but it is also very different because with a painting you might pay a couple of hundred dollars for a LE print but the original is tens of thousands and can sometimes only be created once.
I am a fan of Gio but to give you an example - he has Eva White Rose marked down from supposedly $500 to $69. $500 - get real, we are not talking about an original here, we are talking about one of many prints
I plan to never spend $100 Au on a single deck - right now that is only $64 us and I am including shipping in that price

I have been wrestling with Patreon plans. I will never buy a mystery deck so promises of unknown gifts has zero appeal. I am more interested in the information but I cannot help but feel that I should not have to pay for information that is really promoting/advertising by the artist and something that they should be begging me to read. I would rather take Omar's suggestion and support someone like Jonathan's kickstarter campaign (not that Internationals can this time) and buy a deck that I may not even want and probably give it away. Most of us collectors cannot just buy willy nilly - not just because of the $ but also because of the required home storage

Like authors, designers/artists generally make a pittance, it is not something you would encourage your children to get into except on the basis of fulfilling a passion and enriching their life by doing so - thinking of Jonathan here (hopefully the pharmacy is going OK and he has that as a safety net). It is not something you would encourage for financial reward.

ps It would be great if our mods could move posts into a new thread when we go off at a tangent

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:57 am

Fenrir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:04 am

vasta41 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:45 am This project is being advertised on the P52 homepage. I'd love to know how that got up so quickly but why the site rotted for a month or so a few months back?

There are community members who are not Alex who help with P52.

I'd imagine that's a paid ad on the site. Who is handling the money for that if not Alex?

The purpose of my snarky comment was to highlight the fact that it took over a month (more?) for someone to care enough to fix P52, yet less than 24 hours after the project launch, there's a posting about it. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy it's up and appreciative of the person who fixed it. It just makes me wonder if P52 crashed a day or two before this project, would it have been fixed sooner so it could be advertised on there?

I hate to sound like such a skeptic and a cynic but I don't appreciate all the shadiness around P52/Alex right now. It's amazing what a little update could do. I digress.

On topic, these cards are pricy but worth it IMO. I've also no pledged for some recent, similar projects because I thought they were overpriced. This theme just tickles my fancy I guess. I even sprung for the lunchbox, which I usually never do, since it was only $15 more (less than a deck of cards).

They will be putting some older decks into the add-ons on Friday 8pm CDT



also, from earlier update, pledging for poster add-on comes with goodies:

KS add ons - what about Internationals

I do believe they are going to do the same at Legends for international - half and half split

I would've loved an uncut of the Sweet Tooth Chronicles, but I also don't want to get a poster to gamble getting it.

Great way to sell the posters though.

Did anybody get any of the old deck add ons that were listed at around 8pm CT?
As an international I cannot support the KS but at around 8.30 CT, I pretended to be from US and pledged but could only see one old deck in the add on options then

Honeybee wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:31 pm Did anybody get any of the old deck add ons that were listed at around 8pm CT?
As an international I cannot support the KS but at around 8.30 CT, I pretended to be from US and pledged but could only see one old deck in the add on options then

Yeah, I was able to see them but some were more limited than others. Meadowlark Luxe had only 2 available when I jumped in, limit 1.

I was in looking but my days at the quick draw are obviously behind me - never saw a thing

I ended up reducing my pledge from the "all-in" tier to just the 2 basic decks. It's a shame the holographic decks were stuck behind a lunchbox paywall, and I would've cancelled my pledge completely had I not had old deck add-ons. The savings I likely would've gotten from buying the Space Suits decks on sale in the retail market was offset by the savings I got from the older deck add-ons. Hopefully we'll see the holographic decks be sold as standalone at some point. As much as the lunchbox is cool, having space is cooler. No pun intended.

If I was running this campaign, I would've given people the option to choose 1 deck as opposed to having the lowest tier be both decks. I get why the decisions were made from a business standpoint, but when my emotional and logical sides battle as a result of a campaign, I don't like it. And with this campaign, I really really wanted to like it.

I am hoping Internationals are going to get a crack at old deck add ons through Legends for that is actually a bigger attraction to me than the space decks.

Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:37 pm I am hoping Internationals are going to get a crack at old deck add ons through Legends for that is actually a bigger attraction to me than the space decks.

I was backing it for that reason too but cancelled my pledge because I didn't want to have to buy the 2 space decks in order to get the 2 or 3 add-on decks I wanted.

Jonathon's last KS update states

If you missed out on anything, or if you are an International supporter, have no fear! Mid-to-late May we will have the decks live on the Legends Playing Cards website (https://legendsplayingcards.com/). I will send out another update when this goes live.

I hope we will see an update here too as Legends rarely post on any of their social media

Meadowlark will post it on their social media I’m sure:

https://www.instagram.com/meadowlarkdecks/

I received my Space Suits decks today! I only pledged the simple 2-deck set. Surprised there isn't more delivery notices here, let alone shipping notices from last week.

Swiski66 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:02 pm I received my Space Suits decks today! I only pledged the simple 2-deck set. Surprised there isn't more delivery notices here, let alone shipping notices from last week.

And, what's the verdict? Did you open them? Are they as tasty as the previous Meadowlarks? (I didn't back this particular project, but I sure do love the previous entries in the series.)

I have not seen anything about when we internationals can buy them and it has been more than 2 weeks

I did get a shipping notification when the label was made and a notification of delivery today. I only got the standard deck set. I would've gotten the holographic decks too but I didn't want a lunch box due to the required space.

Honeybee wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 5:08 pm I have not seen anything about when we internationals can buy them and it has been more than 2 weeks

In the latest update on the campaign, posted May 19th:

Meadowlark wrote: I spoke with Lawrence and he said that Legends website will be updated with all the decks around the middle of next week, so if you are international or just wanting to get more, then you won't have to wait much longer.

rousselle wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:33 pm

Swiski66 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:02 pm I received my Space Suits decks today! I only pledged the simple 2-deck set. Surprised there isn't more delivery notices here, let alone shipping notices from last week.

And, what's the verdict? Did you open them? Are they as tasty as the previous Meadowlarks? (I didn't back this particular project, but I sure do love the previous entries in the series.)

Not Swiski, but I got mine in as well. Just the two standard editions. I still suck at posting pics, but here are my impressions:

1. Ooooh, spot gloss and embossing on a matte tuck! I must've missed this detail in the KS so it was a lovely surprise!
2. The linen card stock is super buttery and a joy to riffle shuffle and bridge.
3. I love the custom pips. In person, the blue of the clubs and spades are very TARDIS-reminiscent. Gorgeous!
4. The detail of the heart/diamond pips are also very elegant and fun at the same time.
5. Aces are quirky and cute. Joker = SPACECAT! YES!
6. Kudos on the seal being slightly perforated so I didn't destroy them when I opened the decks. This should be a standard for seals methinks.
7. Definitely like the Saturn backs over the spacemen ones but still happy I got both.
8. Packing was secure and each deck came in a plastic shell case.

All in all, another Meadowlark win for me and I'm chuffed that I got in on the action on time. No overpaying on the secondary market for this gal!

kevork wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:09 pm I did get a shipping notification when the label was made and a notification of delivery today. I only got the standard deck set. I would've gotten the holographic decks too but I didn't want a lunch box due to the required space.

Honeybee wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 5:08 pm I have not seen anything about when we internationals can buy them and it has been more than 2 weeks

In the latest update on the campaign, posted May 19th:

Meadowlark wrote: I spoke with Lawrence and he said that Legends website will be updated with all the decks around the middle of next week, so if you are international or just wanting to get more, then you won't have to wait much longer.

Kinda weird that the people who were not able to back the Kickstarter are somehow expected to monitor the Kickstarter in order to get information on how to get these? Whole thing leaving a bit of a bad taste. Hopefully they will at least do an email to previous backers.

Not sure if they are savvy enough to realize they made it tough - they might be able to set up a mailing list if you ask

Here's a photo of what you get with the basic 2-deck set. I did not open my decks. You get a postcard and a mini Space Ace. The postcard and Space Ace have an overall greenish hue, so it's possible these glow in the dark, but I'm not sure.

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 10:34 am Not sure if they are savvy enough to realize they made it tough - they might be able to set up a mailing list if you ask

Looks like I'll be out of luck anyway. Legends uses Shopify and isn't configured to ship to where I am, so that won't even be an option fo rme. Just tried to do a test order (wanted to find out shipping) and basically it won't take my address.

Strag wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 12:17 pm Looks like I'll be out of luck anyway. Legends uses Shopify and isn't configured to ship to where I am, so that won't even be an option fo rme. Just tried to do a test order (wanted to find out shipping) and basically it won't take my address.

Try their contact form - they have been pretty easy to deal with in the past, hopefully they can manage to sort it out for you

https://legendsplayingcards.com/pages/contact