Crazy Deck designed by Natalia Silva

[kulidone]

Burden of proof is on the accuser... You told to me that I am being ignorant and baseless... So you are the accuser in this case. Since you didnt provide any facts nor evidence as you said its "ignorant and baseless".

Once again stop describing yourself.

Montezi did by giving a link to dictionary where it explains what means wholesale.Which is an indirect way to say that he is silly enough to not know what it means. If you dont get it I cant help you with that.

Geezus, stop saying all those nice sentences which you read in the book. It has zero value and you are just funny trying to look like you are educated while you dont even know what you wrote.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Burden of proof is on the accuser... You told to me that I am being ignorant and baseless... So you are the accuser in this case. Since you didnt provide any facts nor evidence as you said its "ignorant and baseless".

Once again stop describing yourself.

Montezi did by giving a link to dictionary where it explains what means wholesale. If you dont get it I cant help you with that.

Geezus, stop saying all those nice sentences which you read in the book. It has zero value and you are just funny trying to look like you are educated while you dont even know what you wrote.

Wrong. That's submitting reasonable doubt. Common sense says that anyone could have pledged any amount due to add-ons. If you're not taking that into consideration, then you are blatantly ignorant, and your claim is baseless because of that obvious seed of doubt.

If you don't understand the entire premise of this discussion, then there's nothing that anyone can do to help you.

Thank you for considering my sentences as "nice". That already provides value to my posts. I don't have to try to look educated, because I am very well educated. Whatever inferences you take into consideration from your own perspective cannot change that. You're the one who seems to be lacking understanding. Everything that I'm conveying can be understood by most of UC's members.

Unless you have something substantial to offer in progressing this discussion... I think we're done here. Otherwise, no more ignorant posts of yours will be responded to by me. Thank you for your time and, I guess, effort. Please be more civil to other members going forward.

[kulidone]

Smh... you dont get my point at all.

The point of the last post was that you are the one being ignorant and baseless. I cant see anything relateded to that in your post which is sad.

Waste of time talking to someone who doesnt understand simple things and it doesnt matter how well you are educated. Its just memorizing definitions in your case.

[rousselle]

Hi, guys.

I hate to do this, but I'm putting on my Mod hat:

If, after three posts on the same day saying the same thing, you still haven't convinced the other person, it's time to move on to either other ideas or other topics/threads.

Also, when you resume this argument tomorrow, please try to keep it civil.

Thanks.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Hi, guys.

I hate to do this, but I'm putting on my Mod hat:

If, after three posts on the same day saying the same thing, you still haven't convinced the other person, it's time to move on to either other ideas or other topics/threads.

Also, when you resume this argument tomorrow, please try to keep it civil.

Thanks.

Not happening!

[sinjin7]

Some communication is more appropriate via PM, there you guys can argue back and forth with each other all you want without hijacking this thread. People should be free to express their opinion without being insulted or called ignorant, even Victor. Of course, you're free to express a counter opinion as well, but please so so without getting personal. If you really want to go at it publicly because you're just that eager to show how clever you are and it's all about "winning", then go start a Thunderdome thread in the General Section of this site.

[Bradius]

As I was thinking about Graffiti art, this deck's style came to mind. Colorful, playful and a lot of twisting the rules, but not necessarily breaking the rules. It holds card design conventions only to some extent. Maybe Natalia will finish this deck. It is one I really would like to hold in my hands.

[Conturbia]

As I was thinking about Graffiti art, this deck's style came to mind. Colorful, playful and a lot of twisting the rules, but not necessarily breaking the rules. It holds card design conventions only to some extent. Maybe Natalia will finish this deck. It is one I really would like to hold in my hands.

Yes, I'm a fan too.. any news from Natalia?

[vasta41]

As I was thinking about Graffiti art, this deck's style came to mind. Colorful, playful and a lot of twisting the rules, but not necessarily breaking the rules. It holds card design conventions only to some extent. Maybe Natalia will finish this deck. It is one I really would like to hold in my hands.

Yes, I'm a fan too.. any news from Natalia?

I've sent her a message every other day via KS to no avail. I wish KS would actually take action and more people would report this project.

[Conturbia]

I'll try to write a message to her.

[guru]

I've sent her a message every other day via KS to no avail. I wish KS would actually take action and more people would report this project.

May be letting it go is the best bet I believe. We don't know what is going on with Natalia, you & I both know messaging every day won't help.

I heard recently that a creator messaged all his backers (after 5 years) that he is going to get the deck produced and shipped soon.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/de ... airy-magic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


This deck by Natalia might reach your place in the next few months, who knows.

KS has never done anything even for real scams. Heard of Superscreen, I backed it last year.

Screen Shot 2018-07-12 at 10.48.33 PM.png (106.06 KiB) Viewed 2693 times

I just observed that some backers post in the comments section almost everyday. I empathize with them for sure but while looking at it I also understand the stance of Kickstarter. Some investments bear fruit, some don't. We all know it but ruing about it won't help for sure.

By the way, the last comment in the screenshot shown below makes me believe that these guys are looking for someone like @sinjin7.

[Conturbia]

I'm afraid about Superbook.. it's not a scam, probably, but it will be so late that at the time they delivery we'll have flying cars

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/an ... perbook%20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[guru]

I'm afraid about Superbook.. it's not a scam, probably, but it will be so late that at the time they delivery we'll have flying cars

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/an ... perbook%20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is not Superbook...it is "Superscreen" which is a different product from a different creator. I'm getting Superbook soon btw as I remember getting a tracking number recently.

[Conturbia]

I'm afraid about Superbook.. it's not a scam, probably, but it will be so late that at the time they delivery we'll have flying cars

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/an ... perbook%20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

It is not Superbook...it is "Superscreen" which is a different product from a different creator. I'm getting Superbook soon btw as I remember getting a tracking number recently.

Good for you! I can't wait to use it

[vasta41]

I've sent her a message every other day via KS to no avail. I wish KS would actually take action and more people would report this project.

May be letting it go is the best bet I believe. We don't know what is going on with Natalia, you & I both know messaging every day won't help.

I disagree with you. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I refuse to take this lying down, wether or not what I'm doing is working. And there seems to be a common misconception here about why I'm so angry. I do not care that this or any deck is late. If I did care about that then I wouldn't buy Lotrek's decks. An explanation to why the project is late goes a long way and should be required. But the main offence here is the creation of another project while this one remains at large with radio silence and no updates. That is beyond aweful and unprecedented- not even Mana pulled that crap. If you guys don't have a problem with that then I can't help you.

[Conturbia]

speaking about scams... I still feel the burn for the Founders deck... it was my first real love for kickstarter playing cards projects and it was my first pain. It was sooo good. the courts in particular.. I've never seen something so classic yet so custom. And the characters were well drawn.

[vasta41]

I'll try to write a message to her.

Were you able to get a hold of her? Or did you get the same radio silence as the rest of us?

[Bradius]

I emailed her through her website and haven't heard back. If I hear anything, I will pass it on. I don't know what is going on other than what she has publicly posted.

[sinjin7]

I disagree with you. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I refuse to take this lying down, wether or not what I'm doing is working. And there seems to be a common misconception here about why I'm so angry. I do not care that this or any deck is late. If I did care about that then I wouldn't buy Lotrek's decks. An explanation to why the project is late goes a long way and should be required. But the main offence here is the creation of another project while this one remains at large with radio silence and no updates. That is beyond aweful and unprecedented- not even Mana pulled that crap. If you guys don't have a problem with that then I can't help you.

Most projects run into some problems or delays, some projects have significant problems or delays. I agree that merely a delay shouldn't be cause for excessive angst, but regardless of how short or long the delay is, if the project creator communicates regularly, then most backers will be satisfied. The delayed projects with the unhappiest backers are almost always the ones where the project creator goes silent. I almost view it as a character flaw where if a project runs into problems and delays, the project creator intentionally chooses to go into hiding and blows off backers instead of keeping an open line of communication. It is so simple to takes 5 minutes out of your day, once every week or two, to post a brief update about the progress, or even the lack thereof. The fact that some creators can't be bothered to do even that shows me everything I need to know about his/her regard for their backers.

It's interesting you brought up Erik Mana. In my legal action against him, one of the conditions of me holding off on filing the Complaint in court was that he be required to post an update every week. Trust me, if I didn't keep the pressure on him, he still would not have communicated. From the time I put him on notice of my lawsuit to the time he finally started shipping out decks was still about 2-3 months, but because he was finally communicating regularly, the number of people complaining in his Comments section in that time period dropped to almost zero. That's how far a little communication gets you. The reason Lotrek didn't get crucified for his delays is because he's so good at communication.

While I don't know what is going on with Natalia (nor should I care), the main reason why projects are delayed as long as hers is usually because the project creator ran out of money. I suspect this is the reason she's starting new campaigns when her old ones are still unfulfilled: she may be robbing Peter to try to pay Paul, but that usually doesn't end well. Regardless of what her issues are, it's a shame she chooses to obliterate her reputation by ignoring basic communication with her backers.

[Bradius]

My most overdue project (and it looks bad that it will ever see the light of day) - Don Quixote vol 2. But that also includes Cellar Window's other creations. Don Quixote Vol 2 - Rocinante and Cabinet of Curiosities. I am betting I will never see those decks. It happens.

[Cardians]

I don't know why ANYBODY accepts creators stealing their money from KS.

It's simple, you have to register a credit card with KS to be charged, and that's who you go after. Your credit card.

It's called consumer protection regardless of how long a project has past since taking your money. If you don't receive any product for whatever reason or are unhappy with any product and wish to return it but the seller refuses to refund, you seek a charge-back and you'll get it. No questions asked.

The credit card company ultimately goes after the creator and deduct the amount accordingly. The creator has no choice in the matter and in Natalia case, she'll be forced to refund when she sees her next monthly bill and owing are all of the charges put forth from the credit card companies taking their money back.

[MagikFingerz]

I don't know why ANYBODY accepts creators stealing their money from KS.

It's simple, you have to register a credit card with KS to be charged, and that's who you go after. Your credit card.

It's called consumer protection regardless of how long a project has past since taking your money. If you don't receive any product for whatever reason or are unhappy with any product and wish to return it but the seller refuses to refund, you seek a charge-back and you'll get it. No questions asked.

The credit card company ultimately goes after the creator and deduct the amount accordingly. The creator has no choice in the matter and in Natalia case, she'll be forced to refund when she sees her next monthly bill and owing are all of the charges put forth from the credit card companies taking their money back.

I have never tried doing this myself, but I can see a few potential problems arising here. Firstly, is money sent to Kickstarter technically payment for a product? I wouldn't be surprised if, depending on who you talk to, the employees at the credit card company might not see it as such. Secondly, since the payment goes to Kickstarter, will the credit card company go after KS or the creator? I honestly have no idea, and considering KS takes 10% perhaps they have to go after both.

Would be interesting to hear from someone who has done this, and if any of the above was an issue.

[TGunitedcardists]

https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/c ... asics#Acco" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/a ... o-fulfill-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kickstarter does not issue refunds. Transactions are between backers and creators directly.

To request a refund for a pledge, please contact the project creator.

[Conturbia]

I'll try to write a message to her.

Were you able to get a hold of her? Or did you get the same radio silence as the rest of us?

I got an answer but only a generic one. It seems she doesn't want to disclose the iussues she's having. She said that she is "fixing" them, that's all.

[vasta41]

I'll try to write a message to her.

Were you able to get a hold of her? Or did you get the same radio silence as the rest of us?

I got an answer but only a generic one. It seems she doesn't want to disclose the iussues she's having. She said that she is "fixing" them, that's all.

I'm sorry but whatever "issues" she's having it is our business as backers, who BTW have collectively given her thousands of dollars, to know. If something truly is wrong with her or her immediate family then I wish her the best. But without an update we can only speculate on these "issues" and I for one think that's all BULL$#!+. And there is proof that she is conscious and still has all 10 fingers to type with: https://www.instagram.com/nataliasilva_art/?hl=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; So if she's able to be doing all of that then there is absolutely NO REASON for her to ignore her backers and not provide an update.
IF YOU ARE A BACKER AND HAVE NOT DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE REPORT THIS PROJECT!
It is very hard not to assume that she took all the money from this and the Last Legion campaigns and went rock climbing with it. I'm so very close to accusing her of that. . . so close. Regardless, this fraudulent scam artist needs to be brought to justice.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't know why ANYBODY accepts creators stealing their money from KS.

It's simple, you have to register a credit card with KS to be charged, and that's who you go after. Your credit card.

It's called consumer protection regardless of how long a project has past since taking your money. If you don't receive any product for whatever reason or are unhappy with any product and wish to return it but the seller refuses to refund, you seek a charge-back and you'll get it. No questions asked.

The credit card company ultimately goes after the creator and deduct the amount accordingly. The creator has no choice in the matter and in Natalia case, she'll be forced to refund when she sees her next monthly bill and owing are all of the charges put forth from the credit card companies taking their money back.

I have never tried doing this myself, but I can see a few potential problems arising here. Firstly, is money sent to Kickstarter technically payment for a product? I wouldn't be surprised if, depending on who you talk to, the employees at the credit card company might not see it as such. Secondly, since the payment goes to Kickstarter, will the credit card company go after KS or the creator? I honestly have no idea, and considering KS takes 10% perhaps they have to go after both.

Would be interesting to hear from someone who has done this, and if any of the above was an issue.

It depends on the network that issues the card that you use.

American Express and Discover tend to issue refunds if the request is reasonable. In this case, since it's past due and there is no/little communication, they consider it reasonable for the consumer to demand a refund.

Visa and Mastercard, however, are issued by independent banks. The process is at the hand of said bank. Visa Signature and World Elite Mastercard, however, also have concierges. Those higher tier Visas and Mastercards tend to operate similar to AmEx and Discover. They'll likely refund.

If you have a basic Visa or Mastercard, or use a debit card, then it's definitely likely that the bank will not refund your charge. The reason that the above premium services will, is because it's ultimately their money. They charge you interest for the rotating loan. If you end up unsatisfied and don't use the card then they lose out on processing fees. If you use the card and never owe interest, then they lose money or break even on points/redemption.

TL;DR - American Express, Discover, Visa Signature, and World Elite Mastercard will likely refund you if the charge is within a year. Regular Visa and Mastercards, and debit cards, will likely not refund your charge at all. It would be a steep hill to climb.

[druthulu2]

Joined to update this thread. Im not on Crazy, but I am on Avalon and Last Legion. Avalon was funded in Dec 2017. I paid with an Amex. Amex's rules are 65 days past purchase, but they can try to go back up to a year. I proceeded to contest the Avalon charge first, and it can take up to 2 months to get to the bottom of this. Additionally they are charging back KS, not NS, so I am not sure how it will go. I would suggest however, at least for Last Legion, its just past 65 days since funding, that if you have the inclination to contest do so now. I will contest Last Legion as well in a few days, sadly just shy of the 65 days and it hasn't past the delivery by date yet so... not sure if they would go against that one. I'll let you know what happens with Amex and Avalon.

[vasta41]

Sinjin- I was hoping not to have to ask you this but do you think there's any way that you could "pull a Mana" on Natalia and threaten with a lawsuit?
I'm sure it's a lot of work and I'm now lawyer but I will help in any wya if need be.

[sinjin7]

Sinjin- I was hoping not to have to ask you this but do you think there's any way that you could "pull a Mana" on Natalia and threaten with a lawsuit?

I know a lot of people piss and moan about how KS does nothing to protect backers from scams while KS eagerly pockets their cut of the cash, and it's all true. But KS actually does lay out a pretty concrete legal foundation for contractual breaches against project creators in their Terms of Use - the problem is KS lays the burden of enforcing the breached contract entirely on the backers. And there is a big difference in being able to have a cause of action against a fraudulent KS creator, versus being able to squeeze anything out out of him/her even if you win in court.

Erik Mana was a unique situation. First of all, he failed to communicate when he went several months at a time without posting any kind of update whatsoever, which is one of the most easily provable breaches of contract against a KS project creator. If a project creator posts once every month or two, they can claim they never failed to communicate with backers and are presumably still making progress towards project fulfillment. Secondly, Erik actually had the decks made, they just sat in a warehouse for a year because he didn't have the money to pay for shipping. That meant there was something tangible to go after and recover in terms of damages. And finally, I was able to find out where Erik lives, so I would be able to effectuate service upon him and had an understanding of where the legal venue would be as well as a general idea of governing laws. Erik being in another country outside of the U.S. was a bit of an issue, but ultimately the Canadian laws are fairly similar to the United States for breach of contract, they speak English in Canada, and I was able to locate a Canadian barrister who practiced in Erik's jurisdiction that was willing to work with me in the lawsuit. Ultimately, I wasn't going to sue Erik because I thought I would make any money off him. In fact, if I had to go through the whole litigation process with him, I would have personally been out a considerable sum of money. But I was willing to go through with it out of principle and because there were so many backers here on UC that was getting screwed along with myself.

I never backed any of Natalia's projects, so I don't have a first hand experience of what she is or isn't doing to constitute a breach of contract in any of her KS campaigns. What is the oldest unfulfilled KS project of hers, how many backers are there, and how much money did she raise? Assuming she is in breach, I would have to know where she lives. If she lives in, say, Russia, that is a big problem. Russian laws are significantly different and I don't speak any Russian. And even if Natalia lives in the U.S., it is questionable if we can squeeze anything out of her even if we win in court. If she doesn't have any decks made yet, then our only recoverable damages is money. If there are no decks, and Natalia has no money, and she has no assets that can be attached, then all we'll have in our hands is a judgement against her with no real hope of ever enforcing it. It's not like we have debtor's jail here in America. As the saying goes, "You can't squeeze blood from a turnip."

I am willing to help, but I'll need a lot more facts to determine if there is a viable cause of action and where the legal venue and jurisdiction will be. We also have to determine whether Natalia is a turnip or not.

[vasta41]

Sinjin- I was hoping not to have to ask you this but do you think there's any way that you could "pull a Mana" on Natalia and threaten with a lawsuit?

I know a lot of people piss and moan about how KS does nothing to protect backers from scams while KS eagerly pockets their cut of the cash, and it's all true. But KS actually does lay out a pretty concrete legal foundation for contractual breaches against project creators in their Terms of Use - the problem is KS lays the burden of enforcing the breached contract entirely on the backers. And there is a big difference in being able to have a cause of action against a fraudulent KS creator, versus being able to squeeze anything out out of him/her even if you win in court.

Erik Mana was a unique situation. First of all, he failed to communicate when he went several months at a time without posting any kind of update whatsoever, which is one of the most easily provable breaches of contract against a KS project creator. If a project creator posts once every month or two, they can claim they never failed to communicate with backers and are presumably still making progress towards project fulfillment. Secondly, Erik actually had the decks made, they just sat in a warehouse for a year because he didn't have the money to pay for shipping. That meant there was something tangible to go after and recover in terms of damages. And finally, I was able to find out where Erik lives, so I would be able to effectuate service upon him and had an understanding of where the legal venue would be as well as a general idea of governing laws. Erik being in another country outside of the U.S. was a bit of an issue, but ultimately the Canadian laws are fairly similar to the United States for breach of contract, they speak English in Canada, and I was able to locate a Canadian barrister who practiced in Erik's jurisdiction that was willing to work with me in the lawsuit. Ultimately, I wasn't going to sue Erik because I thought I would make any money off him. In fact, if I had to go through the whole litigation process with him, I would have personally been out a considerable sum of money. But I was willing to go through with it out of principle and because there were so many backers here on UC that was getting screwed along with myself.

I never backed any of Natalia's projects, so I don't have a first hand experience of what she is or isn't doing to constitute a breach of contract in any of her KS campaigns. What is the oldest unfulfilled KS project of hers, how many backers are there, and how much money did she raise? Assuming she is in breach, I would have to know where she lives. If she lives in, say, Russia, that is a big problem. Russian laws are significantly different and I don't speak any Russian. And even if Natalia lives in the U.S., it is questionable if we can squeeze anything out of her even if we win in court. If she doesn't have any decks made yet, then our only recoverable damages is money. If there are no decks, and Natalia has no money, and she has no assets that can be attached, then all we'll have in our hands is a judgement against her with no real hope of ever enforcing it. It's not like we have debtor's jail here in America. As the saying goes, "You can't squeeze blood from a turnip."

I am willing to help, but I'll need a lot more facts to determine if there is a viable cause of action and where the legal venue and jurisdiction will be. We also have to determine whether Natalia is a turnip or not.

Thank you very much for the explanation. Natalia definitely fits the description of "fails to communicate" but falls short of all your other criteria. I reported the project and can only hope/assume others have done the same. I just wish KS would hold her feet to the fire as I can only assume they haven't due to the lack of updates or progress with this campaign. Hopefully once her Last Legion project becomes delayed more people will rally to make this woman face the music.