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bdawg923 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:27 pm BBB is not a government or oversight organization. Posting there accomplishes nothing

I am open to suggestions. We need to do something.

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:31 pm 9C56D414-9A7B-4045-AD31-2CD5C8158027.jpeg

Oh wow. Guess that won’t be much of a threat.

Another angle to try is to contact Jack Conte. He is the CEO. I stumbled onto this fact as he is a very talented musician (half the duo of Pomplamoose and ScaryPockets) and I followed him for a time on Instagram. He is active there and maybe he might respond if messaged there or have someone follow up. His handle is @jackconte.

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:31 pm From what I see they at least respond to each complaint - so you may get your wheels greased by complaining there.

Well, if every Oath Patron with a problem made a BBB complaint, 100-200 more complaints on top of the 37 that are already there should at least get their attention.

Not sure how many people had issues - I don’t think I was overcharged (I think USD avoided the issue or updating the price at the year change?) - perhaps more had issues than are aware (myself included)…

But seeing that 1.x that they are scoring on BBB now it might take quite a bit to get their attention - they appear to be pretty clueless

Exactly if the 1.x rating mattered, they'd have done something to fix it by now.

MArch 2nd
"We are ready to ship Redemption Stories Vol. II and III together, with Redemption Stories Vol. IV following at the end of March."
so essentiality we can expect all three decks shipped together?
March 11-31st is 3 weeks. doubt we see back to back shipments
comms completey failed

I filed an official complaint and left a review through BBB about the Patreon overcharging issue. I encourage anyone else who has contacted Patreon about it to do the same. It doesn’t take that long, and if enough of us do it, maybe we will get somewhere. We need to put the screws to them somehow.

Patreon responded to my BBB complaint. They basically continued to stall, saying that they would put a Senior Product Support Specialist on the ticket and increase the priority. They then tried to say that any further response from them would be done through my original ticket that I submitted through their system, which I was having none of because that would close the BBB complaint. They went on to say:

“Creators must put their benefits into categories so that the proper sales tax can be calculated. If the creator changes this while the patron's pledge is still active, it can affect the total price charged. The patron can view the break down of their billing in their Billing History. Please note that based on where the patron puts their location as, the benefits will be taxed at different rates.”

I responded by letting them know it doesn’t take a Senior Product Support Specialist to actually take a quick look at my billing history (the same way they stated I should) and see that I was charged an amount well above the stated cost, and that the appropriate tax for my region was then applied to the mysteriously inflated amount. If they had/have an issue with tax classification on the back end, they still owe us all refunds, which should be done asap even if they are investigating how their mistake happened. I also made it clear that I have not moved over the time period that I have been a Patron and that I have always paid in USD.

We’ll see what they have to say. If this goes nowhere, I think I will file a complaint with the FTC to report shady business practices.

This is great information. Please let us know what further comms come from this.

Funny how once BBB gets involved then you start hearing from them more promptly.

Cheers,
KW

A new Patreon agent reached out to me with some questions, so maybe we will finally get somewhere. I was a little alarmed though, because she was back to stating that it appeared from her end that I had added an additional amount on top of the initial pledge for my selected tier. It may be impossible to prove that I never did that, but it will be hard to argue with all of us if everyone who is experiencing this problem raises the issue with them.

If anyone wants to reference my original ticket number in order to make it clear that this is a systemic problem it is #1925693, it is apparently also associated with request #2018424, and I am being helped by Marie. If we can get the issue we are all having in front of the same set of eyes, it should help. I would encourage everyone who is/ has been paying more than the listed price of their selected tier to initiate a ticket and refer to the above information in order to best address the problem.

If you “added an additional amount” which supposedly then went to Lotrek (minus some small tax or fee perhaps) I would imagine an accounting of the “extra” you have pledged is what you want - then send to Lotrek and I’m sure he will refund the excess he received

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:40 am If you “added an additional amount” which supposedly then went to Lotrek (minus some small tax or fee perhaps) I would imagine an accounting of the “extra” you have pledged is what you want - then send to Lotrek and I’m sure he will refund the excess he received

Not a bad idea, and I’m sure he would take care of anyone who was affected by this issue. It would likely be an involved chore for him though, given the potential number of affected patrons. Not to mention the fact that it appears that there are likely a large number of patrons who may be unaware they are being charged more than needed. It is also of note that Lotrek has a help ticket with Patreon asking about the issue. I’m sure if they let him know that this is indeed a systemic issue, they will work together to fix it. In any case, Patron clearly needs to make sure the problem doesn’t continue in the future.

Lotrek is giving us three free decks so far due to delays. I am not complaining to Lotrek asking for more. That said, if I can find some time, I probably will take this up again with Patreon, but I have too much on my plate at this point. To some extent, I blame myself for not paying attention to my charges. If it wasn't for brownsl pointing this out to me, I would probably still be over-paying. If they say I added to my pledge, I would just say "prove it", which they can't because I didn't.

Probably get resolved in a class action lawsuit at some point

Patreon is requesting that I post here to ask everyone who has seen a price discrepancy issue to email Patreon about it through the “Email Patreon Support” link near the bottom of this page. If this is you, please, please, please take a minute to write a quick email letting them know, as it will help them to solve the problem if they have more data. As stated before I think that it will help to get your issue to the right person by including my ticket info:

Agent helping me: Marie
Original ticket #: 1925693
Request #: 2018424

Thanks everyone!

Which link?

brownsl wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:58 pmWhich link?

Where it says “Email Patreon Support” near the bottom of the page.

https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us

Anyone have a listing of what the charges are supposed to be per country (last year and this year if possible)?

I know this year in USD from US is $133.50/month - which is what I seem to be paying- not sure about last year though which is when I think most people had trouble, they might have snuck one by me there.

What was it that happened to people - overcharge last year, or overcharge when the year changed?

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:32 pm Anyone have a listing of what the charges are supposed to be per country (last year and this year if possible)?

I know this year in USD from US is $133.50/month - which is what I seem to be paying- not sure about last year though which is when I think most people had trouble, they might have snuck one by me there.

What was it that happened to people - overcharge last year, or overcharge when the year changed?

According to the Patreon site when accessed via computer, below are the correct current prices before tax in USD. I do not know if they were supposed to be higher when the exchange rate was different in the past. It seems to me that they never automatically updated the exchange rate at any point for continuing patrons. Aren’t they supposed to do that every 6 months?

When I look on the app, the prices are displayed in Euros, as seen in the attachments below. According to Lotrek, the prices in Euros have not changed since the start, so if you look up contemporaneous exchange rates, you should get a better idea of what you should have been paying in the past.

Here is the current currency price book for Patreon in case the screenshot below is too small.

Looks to me that I pay the correct 108.50, which shows correctly on the web and when editing my membership, but is incorrectly displayed in the Patreon app as 133.50

Was that the old price? Probably paid that for 2022…


Well.. I checked out my billing history and they are indeed charging me 133.50… sigh…


Email to support sent…

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:25 am Looks to me that I pay the correct 108.50, which shows correctly on the web and when editing my membership, but is incorrectly displayed in the Patreon app as 133.50

Was that the old price? Probably paid that for 2022…


Well.. I checked out my billing history and they are indeed charging me 133.50… sigh…


Email to support sent…

Sorry you are also dealing with this issue, but thank you for taking the time to write an email.

I spent some time reading Patreon’s currency conversion policy. They consider adjusting conversion rates roughly every 6-12 months in an effort to provide a balance between price stability and an unfair situation for either patrons or creators. When they make a conversion, they use current and historical conversion rates to come up with what should be a reasonable rate. Then they add 4.5% on top of that, and round up to the nearest 50 cents to create a buffer to protect creators from large fluctuations in rates.

The asylum tier has a price of €105. If you signed up upon the launch of Oath PCC patreon, the exchange rate was roughly in the range of 1 Euro to 1.2 USD. It looks like they must have bumped that up a bit to 1:1.213, which works out to $127.37; add 4.5% and round up to the nearest $0.50, and it comes to $133.50.

Bottom line, it looks like the exchange rate was never adjusted for continuing patrons. It also appears that there are some major bugs with how the app displays, manages, and ultimately bills with regard to exchange rates.

I always purchase in the "native" currency and use Revolut for payments, which offers near market rate for currency exchange. If you don't have Revolut, and you often purchase in different currencies, it's well worth the effort (minimal) to sign up. You can even send person to person across borders without fees. I use it to send money to family and friends in the US from the UK. You load it like a pre-paid debit card and then use it how you will.

You can create single use card numbers and it's fee-free although you can sign up for some premium services which have other benefits like airport lounge access, cash back and cheaper crypto and stock purchases if that's your thing. Highly recommended.

So, Patreon has made it clear in their most recent response that they do not EVER update currency conversions on existing pledges. At least not when it favors them. The updated conversions are applied only to new/updated pledges. So if you want to pay the current converted price, you must update your pledge. I asked them if that policy also applies when currency fluctuations favor patrons, as opposed to Patreon/creators. I’d be willing to bet that it does not. Pretty shady if you ask me. I am considering updating my payment currency to Euros from here on out to avoid these shenanigans. As an added bonus, Lotrek would not have to pay the 2.5% currency conversion fee that Patreon assesses to any foreign payments on his end if I/we pledge in his payout currency. I have a credit card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee, so this is no skin off my back.

They still can’t seem to figure out why there were additional donations tacked onto my pledge, but we’ll see what they say.

Im seeing standard oath blue/navy decks being delivered
Has anyone received their Redemption Stories V2-3 decks or tracking for them
End of march and received absolutely nothing, another month comes and goes and we get squat
Great comms as usual Lowkey

double_left wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:21 am Im seeing standard oath blue/navy decks being delivered

Has anyone received their Redemption Stories V2-3 decks or tracking for them

End of march and received absolutely nothing, another month comes and goes and we get squat

Great comms as usual Lowkey

From March 14th:

From Patreon’s own policy:

We will evaluate exchange rates on an ongoing basis. If significant exchanges in rates cause our converted prices to be unfair to creators or patrons, we will update our converted prices.

So, they will update, but only apply converted prices in the direction that favors them. That is unfair and a violation of their own policy. We gotta hold their feet to the fire on this one.

yea i saw the note and thats from an update from march 4th person asking 10 days later
and please dont post of comments from Patreon the same went for pictures from me
what makes this any different?? and it/you didnt answer my initial question about anyone recieiving them or even tracking
smh

double_left wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:30 am yea i saw the note and thats from an update from march 4th person asking 10 days later
and please dont post of comments from Patreon the same went for pictures from me
what makes this any different?? and it/you didnt answer my initial question about anyone recieiving them or even tracking
smh

I suggest you cancel your pledge and ask nicely for a refund.

Posting pics from patreon is only limited to those things that creators don’t mind having posted - in this case I am sure that Lotrek is fine with that portion of a shipping related conversation being posted. It is not a private issue, it applies to everyone - and is not an undisclosed deck or secret.

I have not received decks nor tracking for this round - but I am not the slightest bit concerned, as I know the artist I have been a patron of to be both trustworthy and delayed.

CourtCurator is correct - if you aren’t happy with Lotrek you can drop his patreon, and I can see a person being pretty unhappy - but I think its an error to think of him as a store - pretty much everyone else is - and I’m sure you were provided little warning if you signed up early - but he is an artist with an artists personality, trying hard to be more like a retail establishment but it is obviously a struggle that conflicts with his artistic ways.

I would not trade 1% of his art for more retail-like behavior - he will have to integrate better delivery times as a second class issue