Mana - Platinum/Gold/"Sybil" - SHIPPING

[vasta41]

He has no plan to resolve any of this other than hoping things will get fixed with the fulfillment company.

You are 100% correct. His empty promises are just that- empty. The bottom line here for me is this:
IT DOESN'T TAKE THIS LONG TO DELIVER PLAYING CARDS & THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.

I could have f**king walked to the fulfillment company, got my cards, and back to my house by now. Erik, if you see this get off your lazy ass and do --whatever it is you need to do-- to get me my playing cards! Actions speak louder than words.

[Justin O.]

Project update from today:

Posted by Erik Mana & Alvin Campana (Creator)

I wonder if the movement towards legal action prompted the response? Either way it's nice to hear from him, doesn't really instill a lot of faith but hopefully it's a good sign.

[vasta41]

KS Update (that's right, twice in one day after months of silence!):

"No sooner did I send you my last update this morning, I finally get an email from the CEO of the shipping company this afternoon. These are his words...
"...I have spoken at length with my staff about your account and want to get involved to help get your orders out and bring a solution to this.
I know that there has been some huge delays and you have some very anxious and upset backers. While we could go back and forth about what has taken place, I only want to assist in getting these orders out as soon as possible and for the project to be done correctly.
If you are willing to work with me, this is how I would like to proceed. Right now, the project is too complicated to be handled by Dave in Niagara. I would prefer to move your inventory to our much larger facility in Chicago where I have people and systems that are much better equipped to handle your project.
My CTO and I are in the process of getting your account and orders properly imported into our system where they can be picked, packed and shipped. We will send the inventory down to Chicago this week, and cover the cost on our end. By early next week, they will be able to start shipping out orders.
I will personally supervise this project to ensure it runs smooth from this point on, and will provide updates to you as it progresses.
If you are agreeable to this, we will put this plan into motion and start getting these orders out. Please let me know if you are good with this, and we will get started..."
This email was sent to me just after I sent my last update this morning here on Kickstarter. I've even asked for an official letter from the CEO so that I can share it with you all as well. I'm waiting for his reply.
We are finally getting some traction with this project. All I'm asking is that you please bear with me just a little longer. This is the closest I've ever gotten to having this project finally delivered. I do not want to mess this opportunity up now. If everything works out well, then it looks like we can begin to see deliveries happen within the next couple of weeks if not sooner.
Despite all the problems I've had, I couldn't be more happier to share this news right now and I appreciate all your patience and understanding.
We're finally moving forward.
Erik"

Let's see what happens...

[Marcus]

I sincerely hope this leads to fulfillment being completed soon. Both for all the backers' sake and for Erik's.

[Bruno]

Amen to that brother.

[4.of.Clubs]

Mixed feelings on his last update. Very glad there is now a little bit more info. I want more than anything for the decks to be delivered, but at the same time I'm not sure if I should get my hopes up or not.

[vasta41]

FACT: Sybil funded 9/5/14 with an estimated delivery date of 1/15
FACT: The decks were in the US on 8/15, according to a 8/26/15 KS update
FACT: In a 2/27/16 KS update, Erik said this: "I made a decision to redirect the entire Buskers project from Niagara to my old shipping partner in Ohio, where we got the job done quickly. Buskers was completed and fulfilled, but not without its own setbacks. You may be asking why I didn’t send Sybil to Ohio as well. The thought did cross my mind, but it wasn’t that simple nor was it practical. I would have done it if it didn’t mean costing me more money."
FACT: sinjin gave Erik an ultimatum to reply before days end, July 31st or he will pursue legal action; Erik did NOT reply before or on July 31st and sinjin got the ball rolling on the lawsuit
FACT: Not two days after that, less than 24 hours after a lawsuit thread began here on UC, Erik quoted the shipping company in a 8/2/16 KS update: "I would prefer to move your inventory to our much larger facility in Chicago where I have people and systems that are much better equipped to handle your project."
FACT: Erik admitted that he could move the decks to Chicago to begin the shipping process but didn't want to because of cost; almost 6 months later that's exactly what's being done.

Does that suck for Erik? Yes.
Should he have paid to expedite the process and tried to save what little face he had left? IMO, YES!
Instead, did he wait for this Mickey Mouse shipping company to finally pony up, at not coast to him? Yes.
Is it a little more than fishy that we received this update less than 24 hours of threatening to sue, almost TWO YEARS after project completion and almost ONE YEAR of the decks being at the fulfillment center? EXTREMELY. [BACON]

You be the judge.

[rousselle]

I sincerely hope this leads to fulfillment being completed soon. Both for all the backers' sake and for Erik's.

+1

[BenMorrisRains]

I don't believe for one second that the fulfillment company just magically sent him an email today out of all days. Two updates in the same day from someone who hasn't said a word for MONTHS?!?

I can almost bet that he is falsifying that information and probably is doing what he should have done all along: Get the decks shipped out himself.

My guess is he thought people would just sweep this under the rug and forget about it, which is his gain. He gets a ton of money and can make more money off the decks he never shipped. Soon as he saw the word lawsuit he jumped into action. The dude is a chump and I hope he realizes he won't ever have support from anyone in the community again. What an idiot.

[4.of.Clubs]

Did anyone read this on the KS comment page and thought WTF?

A lawyer in the style of Trump.
He never noted you as a threat Mr Ahn, but you must construe it like it is all about you. All about little sinjin.
Wrong, as you are wrong in so many aspects.
Your sincere hope is that you sound and come acrossvas competent, hehe, and you know you struggle there, always have.
Go, move them goalposts again. And again.
Fail. It is what you do, what you are.

[Bruno]

And what, pray, is confusing you ?
If you cannot perceive what I am stating then it is your lack of insight that holds you back. Nothing to do with me.
But, gahead, demonise, a la Trump.
... and yes, call fer back-up !

[RichK]

He posted updates to cover his ass! This is from the KS FAQ(?) (I looked at a bunch of their links.)

=================================


When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

- they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
- they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
- they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
- they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
- they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
=======================================

I backed a project to send a tether into space and pledged for a card with a piece of the tether and some other plastic ID backer. only $8. Nothing happened and PM's, Facebook, Twitter went unanswered.
Once the mention of a lawsuit came up the creator magically appeared and started updating daily about trying to launch a balloon, getting FAA clearance, etc. just to prove he was still trying keeping him within the above rules.

I feel really sorry for all you backers and hope Erik isn't lying but wouldn't hold my breath on getting any cards.

[Justin O.]

I feel really sorry for all you backers and hope Erik isn't lying but wouldn't hold my breath on getting any cards.

I can hold my breath on the cards for as long as it takes, it doesn't cost me anything to do. I already spent the money, it's not like it's costing me more now than what I put it x years ago or whatever, it clearly didn't bankrupt me and I've got nothing but time to wait and see what happens either way. Don't feel sorry for me, you're wasting your sorries.

[vasta41]

Another (count them: THREE!) KS updates in the same day (Jeez, sinjin- you really scared the crap out of him):

As per CEO of shipping company - inventory is on two skids, shrink wrapped and ready to go out by end of day today. That means it will arrive in Chicago by Thursday. He has assured me that they will start fulfillment as early as early next week.

[PrincessTrouble]

Did anyone read this on the KS comment page and thought WTF?

A lawyer in the style of Trump.
He never noted you as a threat Mr Ahn, but you must construe it like it is all about you. All about little sinjin.
Wrong, as you are wrong in so many aspects.
Your sincere hope is that you sound and come acrossvas competent, hehe, and you know you struggle there, always have.
Go, move them goalposts again. And again.
Fail. It is what you do, what you are.

If anyone struggles to sound competent, it is NOT sinjin.

[Tayranno]

I was trying to help the backers that got bent over by Erik including yourself.

And to answer your earlier question as to if I backed the project, the answer is NO! And I'm happy to be a troller as you call it..

My only comment/suggestion would be to move on and stop complaining. KS is a gamble with any projects as you are quite aware of.

As I said earlier, if he hasn't fulfilled his campaign by now, he never will. Good luck suing him, the Canadian Justice System, even small claims, is a joke in it's entirety..

It's easy to say "get over it/move on" when you yourself aren't taking a loss. Most of your posts are much more inimical than helpful in intent. Have some tact. If it were so easy, the situation wouldn't be what it is.

I say good luck with the lawsuit if needed, and looks like it's already spurred Erik to get his a$$ in gear and at least make an effort to rectify this.

[Gareth]

...looks like it's already spurred Erik to get his a$$ in gear and at least make an effort to rectify this.

Amen to that. Is it a coincidence that Erik finally got off his butt to post a couple of days after sinjin7 got going?

Another update, another apology for lack of updates. Like really? He could have avoided a lot of the agro if he'd just update us more regularly.

Erik still hasn't actually actually given us any details on what the problem is with the fulfillment company. He denies it's about money, but then says the costs of previous shipments can be easily settled because they weren't many decks. That suggests to me that larger number of packages sent may not be so easily settled. This is only a guess, because of course we have no information to go on.

His lack of accepting responsibility really gets to me. Is the problem an issue with the fulfillment company? In some way at least, it appears so. But we have paid _him_ money with the end goal of receiving decks - the minutiae of how he has organised that process really isn't our problem. Sure, we can understand - and largely do when the issue appears coherent (like the original tuck production) - but it is part of his responsibility to us to finish this off.

I don't want to start making conspiracy theories or accuse Erik of anything, but I am concerned that the 'e-mail from the CEO' appears a bit too much like something Erik could have written. Some of the same grammatical issues and point-of-view inconsistencies makes me worry a little. After the stretched truth of the previous update (more decks got sent out, but actually only to backers of a different project), I'm having problems with trusting what he has to say. I will be glad when we hear reports of people receiving their decks.

It is so sad that it has come this point, that someone (with many of us in support) needs to start preparing legal action for Erik to finally post an update. Hopefully it doesn't take much more to actually post the decks.

[MagikFingerz]

Quoted from the lawsuit thread, figured discussion should be kept here when appropriate.

You know you really f'ed up when people who don't post as much or a new member comes on here wanting to sue. Erik had a lot of time to communicate. In general when you talk to people civilized or "come correct", no response. When you take the gloves off, be disrespect, reasy to attack, etc. that's when people respond or want to reason. Therefore, show no mercy.

It's been many designers who were late on projects, in and out of their hands but COMMUNICATION along with actions and progress is what makes people trust and stick with you.

It's sad, but it's very true; the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I don't suppose there are very many here who have been closely following the release and development of Pokemon GO, but lately there have been circumstances that can be drawn parallels from. The game has had some inevitable bugs and developer has made some tough and unpopular choices when it comes to which bugs to address first. Through rational discussion it can certainly be shown that they're choices may have been good ones, but they have kept the players very much in the dark throughout the process. This caused mob mentality and a lot of rage and toxicity in the community. I've read discussions on reddit saying that this is something that has happened before, and as much as a developer thinks they can "stick to their guns" by not releasing statements and being trusted to know what's best (which they more than likely do), a mob of angry customers will just keep escalating their rage and fury until they get some form of communication.

It's not a morally good thing to do, but in some cases it is the only thing that starts a dialogue.

[vasta41]

Here's the deal- it's a lose-lose scenario for Erik no matter what. If everything he said yesterday was a lie and another 2 years pass before we see our decks or a refund, then everyone hates him even more. LOSE.
If all those KS updates yesterday were true and the decks really are finally in the process of being delivered then everyone will assume that the ONLY reason it's happening is because someone (sinjin) finally had the balls to sue him for what's right. Now IDK about you guys but that is some scumbag $#it as far as I'm concerned. LOSE.

Here's what I think happened:
Erik says, "Okay fulfillment center, you have the decks so please ship them now."
Fulfillment Co. says, "no" for one reason or another.
Erik replays, "Aww man, that sucks- you guys stink and I will NOT pay you any more money you crooks" and hides in shame for months rather than telling his backers right away and only eludes to his difficulties once his life is threatened.
...months pass and sinjin threatens to sue. In light of this Erik contacts the fulfillment center for the first time in MONTHS and says, "hey guys, remember me? Well can you please try to ship my decks again because I'm getting sued."
The fulfillment center says, "oh yeah- we forgot about you. Um, sure! And not only will we ship your decks, we'll do it out of a better facility we own and we'll do it ASAP at no extra cost to you. Too bad you weren't persistent with us a year ago or this could have been completed a while back."

Don't get me wrong- I understand this fulfillment company is horse $#it and that really REALLY sucked for Erik. But there are so many different ways that I speculate he could have handled this situation better. In fact, it seems as though every single time an obstacle was in his way and he had a choice to make, he made the wrong one. I don't care if he designs the most beautiful deck the world as ever seen (which is highly possible and a damn shame because he's an extremely talented artist). I still think he'd have a hard time getting it funded after what his reputation has become.

[sms69x]

And another update!! I guess that he won't stop now (posting updates) I may need to mark KS emails for the project as spam...
By the way the update is related with address changes, so if you need to update your address check that update..

[TGunitedcardists]

I'm feeling positive again about this campaign. I emailed him to make sure he had my address change and he responded. Good news. Now, hopefully more deliveries. Crossing my fingers.

The real test will be, if he does finally complete the campaign, and designs another set of cards, swears he's learned from the horrible experience, will people forgive and pledge, or is it a godfather type of thing and he's dead to you?

Cart before the horse. I'm looking forward to my cards, sometime before the end of the year! LOL.

[Justin O.]

I'm feeling positive again about this campaign. I emailed him to make sure he had my address change and he responded. Good news. Now, hopefully more deliveries. Crossing my fingers.

The real test will be, if he does finally complete the campaign, and designs another set of cards, swears he's learned from the horrible experience, will people forgive and pledge, or is it a godfather type of thing and he's dead to you?

Cart before the horse. I'm looking forward to my cards, sometime before the end of the year! LOL.

I'll pledge, love the guys designs, and he is only at one screw up. I'll always give someone a second chance as long as it isn't eating babies or reading 50 shades of grey or anything

[PrincessTrouble]

I'm feeling positive again about this campaign. I emailed him to make sure he had my address change and he responded. Good news. Now, hopefully more deliveries. Crossing my fingers.

The real test will be, if he does finally complete the campaign, and designs another set of cards, swears he's learned from the horrible experience, will people forgive and pledge, or is it a godfather type of thing and he's dead to you?

Cart before the horse. I'm looking forward to my cards, sometime before the end of the year! LOL.

I'll never back one of his decks again. If I like the deck, I'll get it aftermarket (if it actually makes it to market).

[vasta41]

I'll pledge, love the guys designs, and he is only at one screw up. I'll always give someone a second chance as long as it isn't eating babies or reading 50 shades of grey or anything

The guy has amazing designs. But I disagree with you when you say he's had one screw up. Here are the one's I can think of:
1. Buskers was over 6 months late.
2. Despite all the shipping issues Sybil had a complete date of Jan. '15 and the decks weren't even produced until July '15, a full 6 months behind schedule.
3. Issues happened during the campaign and Erik neglected to inform his backers in a reasonable amount of time.
4. Although apparently to no fault of his own, the fulfillment company he chose sucks donkey balls.
5. Though not obligated to, he chose to let the decks rot in a warehouse for almost 1 year rather than paying to ship them. Whether or not you think he should have forked over the cash or not the fact that he didn't communicate this to his backers is a screw up in my book.
6. He was given an ultimatum- deliver the decks, issue refunds, or post a status by July 31st or else you will be sued and he chose to ignore that.
7. After a threat to sue and months at a time of radio silence, he posts 4 updates in 24 hours and "apparently" got the ball rolling on shipping which begs the question, "why didn't he spring into action earlier?" I am hard-pressed to believe that the timing of a lawsuit and cooperation of the fulfillment company are a coincidence.

So seven. That's seven pretty bad screw ups. And who even knows how many more there are that we don't know about but can only speculate?

I'll never back one of his decks again. If I like the deck, I'll get it aftermarket (if it actually makes it to market).

+1

[4.of.Clubs]

I'll never back one of his decks again. If I like the deck, I'll get it aftermarket (if it actually makes it to market).

Same here, if I didn't pledge on KS for Sybil, I would have already gotten these decks... Since all resellers already have them.

[Justin O.]

So seven. That's seven pretty bad screw ups. And who even knows how many more there are that we don't know about but can only speculate?

This is the only project I am a part of that has had serious issues, so it's only one screw up in my book. A 6 month delay isn't a big deal, that's actually pretty typical for a lot of the Kickstarters I back, and points 3 through 7 are all part of one project, one poorly handled campaign is one screw up in my book. You're a little more nit picky than I am about what constitutes an individual screw up, which is fine, but maybe I should have clarified, he has only screwed up a single campaign, I will give him a second campaign shot.

[vasta41]

So seven. That's seven pretty bad screw ups. And who even knows how many more there are that we don't know about but can only speculate?

This is the only project I am a part of that has had serious issues, so it's only one screw up in my book. A 6 month delay isn't a big deal, that's actually pretty typical for a lot of the Kickstarters I back, and points 3 through 7 are all part of one project, one poorly handled campaign is one screw up in my book. You're a little more nit picky than I am about what constitutes an individual screw up, which is fine, but maybe I should have clarified, he has only screwed up a single campaign, I will give him a second campaign shot.

I see your point. I guess I'm just more of a cynic. But understand that I don't nit pick every campaign. I understand stuff happens! And most times it's out of our control. But after stuff happens and decisions about what to do next need to be made, that's when I judge. And i deem Erik incapable of making good decisions.

[BenMorrisRains]

I think he has been sitting on the decks the entire time and was hoping people would forget about it and move on. I had done just that, so to see these updates was a big surprise for me. He's a good artist but a bad businessman and business is almost as important if not more so than the art if you really want to make a living out of it.

[alric]

I'm surprised so many people are buying Erik's story that it's the fulfillment company's fault he hasn't begun shipping. We only have his word that this is the case and even now he refuses to disclose who this fulfillment company is. He expects us to believe that this fulfillment company that he's been having so many problems with, and that he's been fighting so long with, is all of a sudden bending over backwards to accommodate Erik? That this shipping company has not asked for money or even billed him for the packages they already shipped out? That the CEO is now admitting that his Canadian facility is incompetent after bumbling around for a year and is willing to ship, at his company's cost, Erik's decks to their Chicago facility, which is apparently competent to ship packages? And all of this fortuitously falls into place for Erik just as he's about to get sued by Sinjin? I call bullshit!

My theory continues to be that he didn't have the funds to pay his shipping company due to the cost overruns on remaking the tuck boxes and/or his mismanagement of his Kickstarter proceeds. And Erik wasn't inclined to come up with the money with any sense of urgency, either, so that's the sole reason why our decks have been just sitting there for the better part of the year. And Erik was content to take his own sweet time in paying off his fulfillment company because he really doesn't give two shits about his backers and it wasn't like Kickstarter was putting any kind of heat on him. It wasn't until he realized Sinjin was actually serious about suing him that he finally got off his deadbeat ass and paid the fulfillment company, most likely with the proceeds he got from his magic shows he put on last month.

You see a person's true colors during the times of adversity, not during the times where things are smooth. He may have run successful campaigns in the past, but when shit hit the fan in the Sybil campaign, he couldn't take the heat and took the coward's way out and chose silence and hid from us. I'm 100% sure that if Erik didn't get his hand forced by the lawsuit, we'd still be futilely waiting for some kind of an update from him. I'm as much about giving second chances as the next guy, but I won't put my trust in dishonest people. I can't believe Erik would have the balls to do another playing card project, but if he did, I'd be a fool to support him after such dishonorable conduct and horrific communication.

[vasta41]

Another KS update:

Decks arrived in Chicago yesterday. The fulfillment facility will be spending the day doing inventory and logging in all products into their system, which I will have access to online. That way I can get daily updates on the progress and I can share that with everyone here. That's something I didn't have with the Niagara facility.
Just a reminder to those that have changed shipping addresses and have not yet sent me the new address, please try to email me at sybil@erikmana.com by Sunday. The sooner we have your new shipping address, the better chance you will get your order without more delays.
According to the shipping company they can start fulfillment as early as Monday barring no major issues with picking and assembly. I will touch base again on Monday.

To which I would say, "some pictures to prove this would be nice."