UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

It's not white or black, it's not broken or not. It's learning and continously improving.
Many are stating that we try to prevent "gaming the system". I hate that concept, that's not the point. We are a cool community of normal people. I don't think anybody is trying to fool the rest and win the prize. I just found myself tempted to consider more well-known decks in my votes. Only that, because, hey, I like a prize deck as much as the next guy! But I will be strong anyway and vote with my heart

jsantafe wrote: We are a cool community of normal people.

Who said anything about us being normal

misterharmanko wrote:

jsantafe wrote: We are a cool community of normal people.

Who said anything about us being normal

I think even "sane" would be a bit of a stretch

I think we've learned two things:

1 - We are all quite mad.
2 - There isn't quite th eimpetus to justify changing the status quo of the way the contest works this year - but there plenty of good ideas to mull over for next year.

Onto the next topic - Categories.

Now 17 is plenty and I think we wouldn't want much more than that (20 is a resonable cap) - but there's room to expand - or even lose one or two

On a previous topic 'Best Rookie deck' was touted. I like that - especially form the point of view of discovery we've been talking about.

If I were to nominate a category to drop it would be Best Series (or at least tweak it to best deck in a series). As it is worded a terrible deck could be released and still win becasue the other entires in the series are brilliant. Plus you are voting on the quality of decks that were produced before 2016...

What do you guys think? Which categories woudl you add / remove?

Best playable deck? Or deck for poker play?

I'll go in the opposite direction. Best non poker deck: hanafuda, Spanish suits, Italian, german etc.
Also I find best fanning and cardistry too close. I know there's difference but still...
I would keep the best for cardistry only.
So... No draw, right? Making sure, hehe!

Not this time around, but we'll keep the discussion going for next year - the draw for prizes and side contest for bragging rights might be a way to go next time!

cherrynukacola wrote:Best playable deck? Or deck for poker play?

+1

Another suggestion I just thought of.
Why not limit the number of votes allowed per deck.

For example if the limit was set at 2 votes per deck then if someone voted for a particular deck in 2 categories they would then be forced to choose different decks for the other categories. Just an idea.

misterharmanko wrote:Another suggestion I just thought of.
Why not limit the number of votes allowed per deck.

For example if the limit was set at 2 votes per deck then if someone voted for a particular deck in 2 categories they would then be forced to choose different decks for the other categories. Just an idea.

That's an interesting idea, but would prefer we not institute such a cap. Two reasons: 1) if a deck really is THAT good, that it locks down several categories, then so be it! Let it sweep! and, 2) More than one year, I thought that one deck in particular was going to sweep a bunch of categories, but instead, found it very well balanced against other decks -- winning a couple, but then coming in second or third for the others. They all seemed to balance out.

Ok to put those thoughts together:

Add Best Rookie Deck
Add best non-Poker deck
Make Best Flourishing / Fanning deck one category
Drop Best Series

This would give us the following to vote on:

• Best Ace of Spades
• Best Back
• Best Courts
• Best Pips
• Best Jokers
• Best Gaff/Extra Card
• Best Use of Colors
• Best for Flourishing / Fanning
• Best for Magic
• Best Uncut
• Best Tuck
• Best Coin
• Best Innovation
• Best Crowdfunding
• Best Rookie deck
• Best Non-Poker deck
• Best Overall

We end up with the same number of categories too - seems a solid list to me. Best rookie and best non poker should really produce some interesting results I think!

As for start date, it wont be too far away:
Best to avoid the lunar new year celebrations as many people will be extra busy, and we need time to get the word out, so I'll propose provisionally that voting start in 2 weeks from today and voting to be open for 7 days only.

So that would be voting open between 00:00 11th Feb - 00:00 18th Feb UTC

If there are no major obections to the above then I'll whip out mu chisel and update the official competition stone tablet.

Also if anyone needs to update, change or add any prize donations then please let me know!

montecarlojoe wrote:Make Best Flourishing / Fanning deck one category

I'm sorry, but this was already discussed somewhere else. All cardists who commented was against it, those are two very different categories.

If we can't even have TWO categories related to cardistry on United CARDISTS: Decks of the Year, then something is terribly wrong

No - that's fine - of course. There just didn't seem to be any reaction at all to the suggestion in this topic

I guess that's because we thought it was already settled

Lol - sorry. I should read more carefully. Work lunchtimes just aren't long enough haha

montecarlojoe,

Can you define "Best Crowdfunding" for me. Not sure what it means. Thanks.

Its looking at decks produced by crowd funding projects (e.g. Kickstarter, Indiegogo, etc)

But you're not necessarily voting on the deck you liked best, but the project you think was run best - how they were organised, project design, updates, pricing, customer engagement in the comments and so on.

montecarlojoe wrote:Its looking at decks produced by crowd funding projects (e.g. Kickstarter, Indiegogo, etc)

But you're not necessarily voting on the deck you liked best, but the project you think was run best - how they were organised, project design, updates, pricing, customer engagement in the comments and so on.

That's what I thought. Thanks.

If we're going to have a best non-poker deck, shouldn't we also have a best playable/poker deck?

When 95% are playable poker decks it kinda seems redundant...

montecarlojoe wrote:When 95% are playable poker decks it kinda seems redundant...

C'mon Joe! Why do you have to be such a Negative Nelly!

There's plenty of room for a Best Poker Deck award once we dump one of the MANY cardistry categories!

montecarlojoe wrote:When 95% are playable poker decks it kinda seems redundant...

Tbh, a lot of "best" decks aren't necessarily very good for playing with. Heretic (which won last year), comes to mind. I suggested it, as might be a nice way to recognize decks that may have sacrificed some artistry for playability. *shrugs*

To me, it seems the most "playable" decks are decks with standard courts and pips just because they're the most recognizable.

And what exactly would be non-poker decks? It would appear only tarot decks would qualify, and how many of those come out in any given year? Even the Heckadeck, as odd as it is, can actually be used for poker.

sinjin7 wrote:To me, it seems the most "playable" decks are decks with standard courts and pips just because they're the most recognizable.

And what exactly would be non-poker decks? It would appear only tarot decks would qualify, and how many of those come out in any given year? Even the Heckadeck, as odd as it is, can actually be used for poker.

I agree. There are very few decks on the current US market (that most of use collect anyway) that you cannot play poker with. In fact, unless you're buying a deck for play in another country OR a tarot deck, what's the purpose of buying a deck you can't play poker with? IMHO don't like that category AT ALL as it barely, if at all, limits the amount of decks that could be voted for. Seems awfully redundant to me.

I suppose it depends how you intepret it:

1. Best deck that CAN be used to play poker
2. Best deck FOR playing poker

In the first the cards could be any size and as long as long as all expected 54 cads (including jokers) are present it technically qualifies.
However in the 2nd unconfusing backs, clearly recognisable courts, standard sizing, no gimmicks, and extra features like squeezer pips for left handed players all wouild play in favour of a deck.

The 1st interpretation IS redundant.

If we are talking the 2nd interpretation then there's room for it... But I'll be setting the final bits and pieces together at the end of the week.

vasta41 wrote: I agree. There are very few decks on the current US market (that most of use collect anyway) that you cannot play poker with. In fact, unless you're buying a deck for play in another country OR a tarot deck, what's the purpose of buying a deck you can't play poker with? IMHO don't like that category AT ALL as it barely, if at all, limits the amount of decks that could be voted for. Seems awfully redundant to me.

I was just about to make the same comment.
I think there are too few decks for this category for it to be competitive at all.

Also, How are we deciding what classifies as a Best Rookie deck? Will this be restricted to first time KS creators, under 3 decks created etc?

Would it not need to the first deck - either by a producer or artist? When you get to deck 3 you really aren't a rookie anymore

I don't think we would need to limit the platform to KS (though most people do seem to cut their teeth there.

So putting all that together:

Best Ace of Spades
Best Back
Best Courts
Best Pips
Best Jokers
Best Gaff/Extra Card
Best Use of Colours in a Deck
Best Deck for Flourishing
Best Deck for Fanning
Best Deck for Magic
Best Uncut
Best Tuck
Best Coin
Best Innovation
Best Crowdfunding project
Best Rookie Deck
Best Non-Poker Deck
Best Deck for Poker Play
Best Overall

Clarifications:

• The spirit of the "Best deck for Poker play" is to choose the best traditional standard deck for play in general - there are many other games we could have chosen such as Bridge, Gin or Cribbage - but poker is probably the most popular and familiar. For sake of argument when judging or selecting a deck think Texas Hold'em.
• The best Deck for Poker Play should be exactly that - best for playing with - not just the prettiest deck that could conceivably be used to play.
• Best non-poker deck is looking at decks that could not be used for Texas Hold'em Poker (or similar games) at all - that is a deck that does not conform to four suits (Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs - or artistic substitutes) each comprising of 10 number cards (1 or Ace through 10), and three face cards (Jack, Queen, King). You would normally expect 2 jokers (Black and Red), but having only one, or both the same colour, for whichever artistic reason would not qualify a deck on its own. nor would card marking or gimmicks (being able to cheat doesnt make them unplayable!)
• Best rookie deck is looking for best Deck produces by a first time artist or producer - the platform it was made available through is not important. A new production company or trading name for someone who has previously prduced decks would not qualify.

Hopefully the clarifications of the Poker /non Poker seem reasonable and unambiguous. Let me know any tweaks you'd make though as I want to have these cemented tomorrow evening.

OK - We're good to go!

Voting will be open on 11th Feb - see the beginning of the topic for updated details.

Spread the word!

Check out the beginning of the topic for new prize tiers and a spangly new poster from Lorenzo!