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It's safe to assume the shit has hit the fan. DAMN!

Starting in 2016, every UC member, including staff will be required to pass an eye test.

All, I'm terribly sorry and embarrassed that this happened. I don't have an excuse for this and we take full responsibility for this making it through our vetting process. I have handled the person who made this graphic, and they no longer are a Crooked Kings employee. Again, we apologize for this situation.

That's a bit scorched earth.

But I'm rather confused. I thought you were the graphic designer and illustrator behind the Crooked Kings projects? And Jeff took care of logistics.

Good to know CK has expanded to include more artistic talent?

That was quick to fire them...

Perhaps he fired himself? Blitzkrieg!

Eoghann wrote:That's a bit scorched earth.

But I'm rather confused. I thought you were the graphic designer and illustrator behind the Crooked Kings projects? And Jeff took care of logistics.

Good to know CK has expanded to include more artistic talent?

You're mostly correct. I do all of the design work for the projects. However, we have folks on staff that will work on updates, shipping, messages, etc... in this case, I designed the elements for the box, but on a flat design, and sent them over to be put in an update graphic, which is when the issue happened. I can appreciate you saying the punishment was harsh, however as a designer, I know the amount of work that goes into things like this, and this person's actions were plan lazy. With that said though, it's still my bust, as I should have vetted that better. There are clearly marks towards the bottom of the deck graphic...

Eoghann wrote:Starting in 2016, every UC member, including staff will be required to pass an eye test.

Eoghann wrote:Why should there be so many standards depending on the project creator?
- If Jackson, Lorenzo, Lotrek, Paul, Randy and UUSI do it..we're ALL over it.
- If a 'smaller' artist does it...he/she is vilified as a greedy, money whore.

It's tough to figure out which comment to quote here, but this'll do the job.

I'm wasn't directly comparing CK to KWP or anyone else really. There are a couple of separate issues that formed my original decision;

1. The original scarab decks are plain. The art of the faces - the court cards especially - are good, but the tucks in particular aren't interesting. If you doubt this, consider the hypothetical world if the Ruby & Sapphire decks were the original pledge decks and these were add-ons. Would you add them on? I doubt many, other than a few complete-ists, would. The $5/deck difference in price of course is a factor.
2. The wooden box appeared to be a straight copy of a product that Jackson has popularised (not saying invented - because as JR would say, nothing is really that new). Does this mean CK or anyone else can't do a box too? I guess not, everyone is allowed to throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks, however to do a KWP look-a-like box like this - just like doing a UUSI style box, or an extremely limited hand-gilded run - just appears a bit too derivative to me.

The people you mentioned above - Jackson, Lorenzo, Lotrek, Paul, Randy and UUSI are also trying innovative things to sell their products - the wooden legacy boxes, the foiled backs, manually created tucks, luminescent tucks and glow in the dark decks among other different ideas. In some cases these new ideas fall flat too, but there does appear some attempt at progress.

None of this however matters for Louizz and the projects 1000+ supporters though, if enough people are buying I guess it doesn't matter what the people who aren't interested think. However, several KS creators have mentioned that KS gives them no indication on why people leave their projects (that text you type in only goes to KS, not the creator) - perhaps this can give a little insight for what I - and possibly others - are thinking.

JacksonRobinson wrote:

badpete69 wrote:Special limited decks now available

This awesome set comes with:

2 beautiful display boxes adorned in both Sapphire and Ruby colors
2 custom Crooked Kings hand numbered seals denoting their limited availability
And, both 1 Ruby deck and 1 Sapphire deck

Come on bro, atleast create your own fake 3D renderings of your boxes...

hmmm... This would be hard NOT to miss, frankly. Scott you're saying you haven't seen one of Jackson's high-end wooden tucks before? It's not like they have changed majorly in the past week or two. i don't tend to pass summary judgement all too quickly, but it certainly feels like this was a gross oversight followed by a knee-jerk reaction that's turned a dumb mistake into an unholy mess - and quickly.

WTH? Sorry, I'll jump off my soap-box now... I guess I'm just saying things could have been handled better in several different aspects here, not trying to exacerbate things even more, though I suppose I just did.

My two cents:
$#!t happens. Yes, this was blatant infringement but could it have slipped through the cracks? Sure. Now I'm not one to ever purchase anything more than playing cards in standard tucks (so my opinion here is bias) but I saw both this and Jackson's boxes and didn't realize they were the same until Jackson pointed them out. While I think Scott firing his employee on the spot is a little rash (like Bill Belichick cutting a player for not being able to hold the football) it does show his initiative to correct an embarrassing mistake. Whether it was the right thing to do or not at least he's doing something which, to me, shows that he genuinely cares about his product and reputation. I also think it couldn't have come at a worse time because of all the discussion here about tuck swapping but my general opinion on that matter remains, "Who cares? Buy it if you like it or don't."

Let's just not forget the fact that these are really nice decks overall and people are speaking with their wallets- this campaign has raised almost $50,000 to date.

I have no dog in this fight, however, I'm pretty curious about something.

If the image used was stolen from Jackson, what will the boxes actually look like? Where are the original images? They still haven't been changed on the Kickstarter update, and no announcement has been made.

Hi Mike,

Of course I've seen "Jackson's high-end wooden boxes". I think they're great! That's why we decided to use the same manufacturer, but we've been waiting to have a project that they would fit for, and Scarabs seemed to fit that ticket. I see no issues with using the same style box that is used in his projects, as there isn't too many options for pre-made wooden card boxes, so it's a great solution.

The REAL issue (imo) isn't with the boxes or the design of the boxes, it's the fact that the box image themselves used in the update was clearly photoshopped and altered and not created by our staff, like it should have been. I've already stated that I FULLY take blame for this situation, as I ultimately approved it before it went live. I don't have an excuse for this- period. I saw it before it went live, and said it was good-to-go, so I ultimately take responsibility for it. I simply did not recognize that portion of the image as being Jackson's. But, unfortunately I don't have a photographic memory of every image every creator has created on KS, so I think it's an understandable over-site that I didn't immediately recognize an image that was somewhat changed/altered from it's original, and to suggest otherwise is not accurate. You and I have had multiple conversations in the past, and I would hope that you wouldn't think I would do this on purpose, which may or may not be what you were insinuating.

As for knee-jerk reactions, I don't believe there have been any. If you were referring to the person who actually executed the graphic, there were a few other issues that factored into my decision, and I ultimately decided on the action I took. It was a Crooked Kings business decision, and that's that.

You really f'd up if you get fired during the holiday season.

The question is will this "guy" get re-hired or will this "guy" work for another playing card company?

Below is a copy of messages I posted on the KS campaign site:

I got mine today. I looked at them in normal lighting in the living room and thought that the blue deck was unbranded, with no printing of any kind on what looked like a black tuck box. I didn't remember there being an unbranded version so I checked the updates to see if I had missed the notification. I saw the pic of the decks from a previous update and saw that it was indeed supposed to be branded. I held the box under the bright light of a desk lamp and the printing magically appeared. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Because of the difference in visibility, the two colors don't really work as a pair. From any distance it looks like a red Bicycle deck and an anonymous black deck. Combining the decks from side to form the scarab doesn't work either because all you can see is the red half. On the other hand, the "black" deck does look kind of mysterious and cool. I'm sure this is not how the creator planned it and he is probably just as disappointed as we are, if not more so. It wouldn't hurt for him to admit the mistake and give everybody a heads up.

Just went to Penguin Magic and saw that these were selling for $10 a deck while I payed $13. That does not sit well. Also saw that they are using pictures of the blue deck from the campaign, which do not look at all like the finished product. I suspect there are going to be some disappointed Penguin customers...unless there is a difference between their tuck boxes and ours.


Here are the front and sides of the tucks under normal room lighting without flash:






Here are the same decks under normal room lighting with flash:






So unless you have museum quality lighting in your deck display area...

flashcards wrote: Just went to Penguin Magic and saw that these were selling for $10 a deck while I payed $13. That does not sit well.

That's why I stop supported this guy, only thing he has in mind is money, nothing less... Very dangerous guy.. But with that company name "Crooked.." you shouldn't expect anything different... The mistake is on our side for not reading the signs..

No wonder this guy is under fire, for people with a blue deck, this is a big disappointment. It'll be very hard for people to pledge again to him.

I thought I received white rounders when I got them in the mail..

Red and Blue decks added to Portfolio 52. Under the scanner, the blue deck came out looking like a much better match for the red deck than it does under natural light. I didn't get the limited edition tuck boxes so I'm not able to enter those.

I got these today from CPC was very disappointed with the blue tuck also. Do they not look at proofs before approving the colours? A different shade of blue that is actually visible would have been better or perhaps a white tuck instead!

Got my Scab, oops Scarab, decks today. Unreadable blue Bicycle but back of tuck image more visible, like the side image.

Went for the fancy Ruby and Sapphire decks and those tucks look more like the rendering. Not as stand out foil as I might have expected or can be done but better than standard blue deck.

Got my decks today.. The limited decks tucks look great and yes the Blue regular deck is not as visible as the red but I thought it would be worst. Overall not that big of a deal for me but I understand the overall feeling on this

Another Erick Mana might be born

1) Retailers got the deck earlier
2) Retailer selling at a way cheaper price (for me)
3) Said fulfilling orders but even American backer aren't getting any notification / decks

4) Printer colour came out wrong?
5) so far 2 months past since they stated orders are sending out

Yeah, for what it's worth, I haven't received mine yet. The lack of communication is bothering me more than the delay. Pierre, do you know if Scott's okay? They've always been a little delayed, but things seem a little more profoundly quiet than usual at present.

Alan

I have not heard from Scott in over a month... I must say this past month has been pretty hectic for me on other fronts but let me send him a note to so whats going on

Hi,

1) Just an update. According to one KS comment the distributor company had a family member / friend who passed on(r.i.p)
2) Decks being shipped out as of end of last Friday again.

Before i seem too heartless,
1) It was a month of no update.
1.1) Supplier/Retailer got their decks 1st before backer and also i know other KS are bad but they had a rep which they instantly destroyed because of this

2) Account was logged in almost everyday.

Irregardless they should have made an update and it would have been to their benefit to do so. Glad I didn't back this, I'll just continue to get their decks in the aftermarket.

Hey Pierre and Rouselle,

A lot of people are still waiting on these decks! Any word yet on what the heck is going on?

Edit: Hey CBJ, you've worked with Crooked Kings in the past, but I'm not sure about your involvement on this particular deck. IMHO your rep is at least tangentially to tied to this campaign as well.
What's the story?