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Sher143 wrote:I think Eoghann got it right. It may be just a case of miscommunication. Make it clear that you intend to produce two decks, each with a different back, with a minimum order of 2,500 for each. So that will be one blue deck with a 2,500 print run and one green deck with a 2,500 print run. Then, tell them that for the blue deck, you want 1,000 (or however many you like) to have a different tuck. Same for the green deck. Ensure that they understand you want only a tuck swap, not another variation of the blue or green deck.

To be honest, I don't know how Black Book of Cards got those two 500-tuck sets done, because at this point (and as far as I know almost 2 years) it's a minimum of 1000 tucks even for a tuck change. Maybe USPCC saw that 500 vertical tucks as good advertising and let it slide? Don't know - they bend their own rules all the time and we know that for certain. I also believe it's a miscommunication: now that you're going "All Bike", just go with 2500 each, and I don't think it will be an issue, but maybe from rereading what you've already written you're already there?

Mike Ratledge wrote:it's a minimum of 1000 tucks even for a tuck change.

You're absolutely right about the 1000 requirement. And while I wish there was a communication problem, there's many more emails back and forth that denote that she completely understood what I was asking for. What we planned for in our funded goal was only 2500 decks, divided up 4 ways. What we reached an agreement for was 2500 BRANDED decks, and she's allowing us to divide that only 2 ways. If we wanted to add the NON BRANDED decks to the order, we would have to print 1000 of the green and 1000 of the blue. The problem we see is that realistically, the non branded versus the branded isn't really justified. That's not to say there isn't a demand, just not 2000 decks worth of a demand. But, if that run minimum was lower, it would be something we could do...

After reading a lot and talking to people, we are going to see if they will allow us to do a limited run (500) of NON BRANDED decks 250 green/250 blue. I'm going to talk to her Monday, so PLEASE keep your fingers crossed!

Oh wow. The way you're putting it, she's actually helping you out! If from the 2500 total decks she's allowing you to go halfsies with blue and green then that's not bad at all to be honest! Usually even for a different color back they ask for a minimum of 2500 as far as I knew.

I thought you were going for 2500 blue and 2500 green. Where a tuck swap is definitely possible and very often seen.

This changes the picture. Again, as stated before, they twist and turn the rules all the time depending on the situation.

Maybe they will let you bend the rules a teensy bit more for the the unbranded ones.

louizz wrote:

Mike Ratledge wrote:it's a minimum of 1000 tucks even for a tuck change.

You're absolutely right about the 1000 requirement. And while I wish there was a communication problem, there's many more emails back and forth that denote that she completely understood what I was asking for. What we planned for in our funded goal was only 2500 decks, divided up 4 ways. What we reached an agreement for was 2500 BRANDED decks, and she's allowing us to divide that only 2 ways. If we wanted to add the NON BRANDED decks to the order, we would have to print 1000 of the green and 1000 of the blue. The problem we see is that realistically, the non branded versus the branded isn't really justified. That's not to say there isn't a demand, just not 2000 decks worth of a demand. But, if that run minimum was lower, it would be something we could do...

After reading a lot and talking to people, we are going to see if they will allow us to do a limited run (500) of NON BRANDED decks 250 green/250 blue. I'm going to talk to her Monday, so PLEASE keep your fingers crossed!

Well, just from what I've seen - and not even knowing how TBBoC got their 500+500 tucks done - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're not going to do that small a quantity. In my mind now that you're going "All Bike" I don't really see why you want the unbranded ones, but I'm just another poster here. I can see why they won't do 1250+1250 if the decks aren't the same, but it sure seems to me that if you really want part unbranded you could get them to cut it 1500/1000 one way or the other, and I'm thinking they would prefer it to be 1500 Bicycle branded, but I'm not their custom department, either. If the decks are all done using the same plates and the inks are the only change, then I don't see why they would not. (that's the way I read it, did I misread?)

As others have pointed out - not just me - they bend the rules when they want, with no particular rhyme or reason as far as I can tell.

louizz wrote:Oh wow. The way you're putting it, she's actually helping you out!

Yeah, I agree that she cut us a brake on their "rules", and in all honesty she's been very responsive and nice. I mean realistically she did take our deck to the CEO of Bicycle for approval

I think my frustration lies in that there's no rhyme or reason to their structure. To EVERYONE'S point, it's just all willy nilley, as my dad would say.

Bottom line is, we want a small run of non branded decks for those who want it. That was the initial plan, so we're going to try one more time to get 500, 250/250, and see what sticks. Worst case scenario they say no, and we stay with branded. At the end of the day, I think it's been a success so far. I really enjoyed making all the artwork, coins, and boat. It's been fun!

Eoghann wrote:Oh wow. The way you're putting it, she's actually helping you out! If from the 2500 total decks she's allowing you to go halfsies with blue and green then that's not bad at all to be honest! Usually even for a different color back they ask for a minimum of 2500 as far as I knew.

I thought you were going for 2500 blue and 2500 green. Where a tuck swap is definitely possible and very often seen.

This changes the picture.

This is exactly what I thought was going on, too. Now I think I understand.

If anyone is interested, I have an early bird full boat that I'm going to have to bail on. Boat puns aside, just too many decks in the mix right now. So, if anyone wants the boat, coins and both decks for the EB price of $199, let me know, and we can arrange a time to hand it off

Update!!!! Limited Editions released!!!


"GET THEM WHILE YOU CAN!

We are proud to present these two extremely limited edition Viking decks.

Viking: Blizzard Wing, SNOW GHOST
Viking: Iron Scale, MIDNIGHT MARAUDER





These decks will be limited to 500 each, and be hand signed in gold pen for Midnight Marauder, and silver pen for Snow Ghost.

1 Deck is $15 domestic / $17 international. Or, get both for $28 domestic / $32 international.








These decks will not come cellophane wrapped, as we will have to open them to add the signatures. Get them while you can "



CBJ

As nothing is mentioned, I'll assume its just a tuck change - white for the blue and black for the green - right?

sms69x wrote:As nothing is mentioned, I'll assume its just a tuck change - white for the blue and black for the green - right?

I'll assume the same, and I'm not impressed by the tucks. Saves me some money

So this means USPCC allowed them tuck swaps. But instead of going for unbranded, they do this.

I'm heartbroken.

Eoghann wrote:So this means USPCC allowed them tuck swaps. But instead of going for unbranded, they do this.

I'm heartbroken.

Maybe they were only allowed tuck swaps WITH the branding. Not that that would make sense, but it's USPCC

I just spoke with Scott. The cards are the same inside the tucks.

MagikFingerz wrote:

Eoghann wrote:So this means USPCC allowed them tuck swaps. But instead of going for unbranded, they do this.

I'm heartbroken.

Maybe they were only allowed tuck swaps WITH the branding. Not that that would make sense, but it's USPCC

They said we had to do branded... sorry to all who wanted unbranded. WE DID TRY!

MagikFingerz wrote:

sms69x wrote:As nothing is mentioned, I'll assume its just a tuck change - white for the blue and black for the green - right?

I'll assume the same, and I'm not impressed by the tucks. Saves me some money

Just curious, what are you not a fan of? Just doing some field research...

louizz wrote: Just curious, what are you not a fan of? Just doing some field research...

They just seem a bit boring to me, especially next to the more colorful standard ones. Though I'm not a fan of tuck swaps in general either, so don't expect to win me over even if you do make some changes It's just my collection style - I collect cards to play with, not boxes to look at.

I'm not much of a tuck collector either. But I'll say one thing: kudos for keeping it a moderate price for those who do want it.

If there's one thing that boils my blood is a cheap tuck swap at a premium price. I've seen some double, even triple in value.

Granted, if the limited tucks get all the bells and whistles allowed by USPCC(embossing, foil stamp, die cut, tuck stock, etc) by all means charge accordingly.

That's fair, and actually a bit refreshing! I am not a collector myself, but I do have a handful of designed decks from projects I really liked. However, my business partner has a bunch. I never really understood the entire not opening them thing. I mean, I get it, but I don't get it. All that beautiful artwork on the inside just ignored... Oh well, to each their own.

Eoghann wrote: kudos for keeping it a moderate price for those who do want it.

Thanks! We discussed it at length, and our first box has all the bells and whistles on it. I wanted to keep this one very clean and elegant... some might say boring , but I really like it's simplicity. Although, I'm not looking forward to signing them. I feel awkward when I'm asked to do anything like that. I don't like it. That's weird right.

louizz wrote: I never really understood the entire not opening them thing. I mean, I get it, but I don't get it. All that beautiful artwork on the inside just ignored... Oh well, to each their own.

I apologize in advance for going off on a tangent, but here's my take on not opening decks.

I'm the type of collector who doesn't open a deck unless I have two. My policy is always one to open and one to keep. Now, for a while I accepted that this might be weird to some people since the primary purpose of playing cards is for people to use them in games and to enjoy them. Then, my friend asked, "But if you're a collector, isn't the point *not* to open them?" To him, collectors preserved things, and I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but he got the idea based on his perception of collectors in general, not just collectors of playing cards. And I thought about it - there are stamp collectors, coin collectors, etc. Stamps and coins have a purpose, too, but obviously those who collect them only have them on display and do not use them. So that's sort of my mentality. I do admit there is a good argument to be made about opening decks, since most of the artwork is in the cards themselves, and I don't think it's wrong at all for people to open decks, even if they're super limited and rare. But for me, it'll always be one to open, and one to keep.

MagikFingerz wrote:

louizz wrote: Just curious, what are you not a fan of? Just doing some field research...

They just seem a bit boring to me, especially next to the more colorful standard ones. Though I'm not a fan of tuck swaps in general either, so don't expect to win me over even if you do make some changes It's just my collection style - I collect cards to play with, not boxes to look at.

You hit the nail on the head. I've also been saying the same thing for the longest. If there's a special tuck, at least make the cards different in some kind of way instead of it already being a deck that already exists. Why buy a deck I already have with just a different tuck when I can buy a different new deck?

Bikefanatic wrote: If there's a special tuck, at least make the cards different in some kind of way instead of it already being a deck that already exists.

I couldn't agree more! It would be nice if Bicycle offered a little more flexibility with their ordering so that way creators could offer more variety! We were able to do that on the standard Blizzard Wing and Iron Scale decks, but they wouldn't let us change 1) from branded to unbranded, and 2) change the actual deck. It's a shame, because ultimately Bicycle would make more money that way. I get the entire press setup time, etc. but I feel like they're leaving a lot of money on the table.

Bikefanatic wrote:

MagikFingerz wrote:

louizz wrote: Just curious, what are you not a fan of? Just doing some field research...

They just seem a bit boring to me, especially next to the more colorful standard ones. Though I'm not a fan of tuck swaps in general either, so don't expect to win me over even if you do make some changes It's just my collection style - I collect cards to play with, not boxes to look at.

You hit the nail on the head. I've also been saying the same thing for the longest. If there's a special tuck, at least make the cards different in some kind of way instead of it already being a deck that already exists. Why buy a deck I already have with just a different tuck when I can buy a different new deck?

I'm so glad there are collectors that think like me.

I feel bad b/c I actually decreased my pledge b/c i thought the LTD would be different (other than the tuck case). I would have loved to see a stripped down white deck/black deck.

UPDATE!!!!!!


"As a thanks to all of my backers, I've decided to open the 50k treasure early! And, without any further ado, I present....

VIKING KING: LIMITED EDITION








These bad boys will show any of your friends that you're the true king of the vikings!

We're only having 1000 ran, and each will have a numbered seal on them. These will probably go quickly, so please don't sit on upping your pledge if you want them!"



CBJ

Assuming this is another tuck swap based on the 1000 number, which deck is inside this one?

MagikFingerz wrote:Assuming this is another tuck swap based on the 1000 number, which deck is inside this one?

Iron Scale!

So this makes two different decks in five tucks. This leads me to ask, is anyone really clamoring for these different tucks? I know Gamblers Warehouse was saying they had backers asking for different tucks, but I just don't understand this. It's hard enough/expensive enough to try and collect decks as it is now, why would anyone want to make it any more expensive/difficult by adding more tucks with no changes to the cards. I realize that no one is forcing me to buy them, but I just wanted to know if anyone really likes having this many tuck variations. As it is now, for this and the Double Black deck, I haven't ordered any of the LE versions. Going forward, I'm thinking I'm going to pull my pledges entirely when designers add these LE tucks (with no card changes) in the middle of their campaigns. Creating an entirely different deck I understand and would support, but I've had it with these multiple tucks/same cards projects.

This is a common practice in the collectable world. Marvel and DC have been doing it for years with MULTIPLE variant comic covers for the same comic.

Nobody is forcing you to buy all the different versions of any deck guys.

Only buy the one you like (if any), and move along.

It's a decent priced tuck swap so they have that going for them. I have to admit I like this one a bit. If it weren't for that Bicycle logo looking like it has no idea what it's doing there, I might have pledged for it. But as Scott said, USPCC is letting them do so many tuck swaps as long as it has the Bicycle logo on them. Which is beyond baffling.

flyers3003 wrote:So this makes two different decks in five tucks. This leads me to ask, is anyone really clamoring for these different tucks? I know Gamblers Warehouse was saying they had backers asking for different tucks, but I just don't understand this. It's hard enough/expensive enough to try and collect decks as it is now, why would anyone want to make it any more expensive/difficult by adding more tucks with no changes to the cards. I realize that no one is forcing me to buy them, but I just wanted to know if anyone really likes having this many tuck variations. As it is now, for this and the Double Black deck, I haven't ordered any of the LE versions. Going forward, I'm thinking I'm going to pull my pledges entirely when designers add these LE tucks (with no card changes) in the middle of their campaigns. Creating an entirely different deck I understand and would support, but I've had it with these multiple tucks/same cards projects.

Nope not me, no LE decks for me. Its all about making an extra buck, maybe when people wise up and stop buying these LEs, the creators no longer see it as profitable, would we then see this trend end.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the designers are doing it. And as I mentioned, I know I don't have to buy them and won't. The thing that was confusing me was that GW was saying that their backers were asking for additional tucks. Jason, are the multiple tucks something you like to have? That's what I'm really asking. I guess I didn't realize that collectors actually like having that many tuck variations.

As a collector myself, I don't really see the need for different boxes if it's the same deck, just means more decks to pile up.

As for it being a cash grab, I don't see them making a lot of money, not if there are many people like me. I often buy 2 of each deck, but as soon as limited tucks are unleashed I swap one of those for a limited box. So I get both and end up paying the same or very little more. If they think they are going to have everyone adding on deck after deck and thus increasing their funding, I don't think that is the case. What ends up happening in return is they simply sell less of the standard deck as a result, at least in my case.