UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

As much as I love holographic effects on these decks, I had to be sensible and back just the simple 2-deck set. Spending too much lately....on everything!
Russ' artwork will look cleaner and clearer on the non-holo stock...to me anyways.

Squiddle_Ink wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:13 am sad I can't actually obtain that wonderful lunchbox.

I'm not usually interested in cases to hold decks, but I wanted this lunch box(oh, and there was such a thing as canned sardines). I am sad to think that I may not be able to get it.

I only wish they had a thermos

Really not thrilled that getting the gilded versions requires also getting a standard set. That kills any interest in the gilded set for me. I might end up passing on this and waiting to get the standard decks on the secondary market. Save on shipping that way at least.

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:50 am Really not thrilled that getting the gilded versions requires also getting a standard set. That kills any interest in the gilded set for me. I might end up passing on this and waiting to get the standard decks on the secondary market. Save on shipping that way at least.

Yeah I agree, I put a marker on this just in case I decide I want it later but this deck doesnt really speak to me and I really hate this practice of putting the "best" deck requiring things that are redundant or I dont really want.

Evilgamer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:10 am

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:50 am Really not thrilled that getting the gilded versions requires also getting a standard set. That kills any interest in the gilded set for me. I might end up passing on this and waiting to get the standard decks on the secondary market. Save on shipping that way at least.

Yeah I agree, I put a marker on this just in case I decide I want it later but this deck doesnt really speak to me and I really hate this practice of putting the "best" deck requiring things that are redundant or I dont really want.

Yeah, and on top of that, you can only get a set, not just one deck. With the card fronts being the same, I'd rather just grab the Astro deck alone.

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:32 am

Evilgamer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:10 am

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:50 am Really not thrilled that getting the gilded versions requires also getting a standard set. That kills any interest in the gilded set for me. I might end up passing on this and waiting to get the standard decks on the secondary market. Save on shipping that way at least.

Yeah I agree, I put a marker on this just in case I decide I want it later but this deck doesnt really speak to me and I really hate this practice of putting the "best" deck requiring things that are redundant or I dont really want.

Yeah, and on top of that, you can only get a set, not just one deck. With the card fronts being the same, I'd rather just grab the Astro deck alone.

Oh, dear! You're right - they have the same faces. But they don't have a tier that allows you to follow for $1 then do an add on for just one deck. Is this how playing card campaigns usually run?

I am enamored of Russ Gray's style and paid a pretty penny tracking down all the Meadowlark decks when I got into this hobby this month, so I didn't want to miss out on this one, but if y'all think the secondary market will be rife with copies after fulfillment, then maybe I'll take my chances and wait as well. I really only want one deck.

mtsedwards72 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:00 am

Oh, dear! You're right - they have the same faces. But they don't have a tier that allows you to follow for $1 then do an add on for just one deck. Is this how playing card campaigns usually run?

I am enamored of Russ Gray's style and paid a pretty penny tracking down all the Meadowlark decks when I got into this hobby this month, so I didn't want to miss out on this one, but if y'all think the secondary market will be rife with copies after fulfillment, then maybe I'll take my chances and wait as well. I really only want one deck.

It depends on the campaign, this is probably one of the most egregious cases of this practice to be honest.

I dont think Ive ever seen a campaign where you couldn't get a single deck.

I would say the "normal" way to gatekeep is to make you buy the base version of a deck and then make the "fancy" version (gilded, foiled, better tuck or whatever) an add-on only.
Or they put the best version behind the box set with *1* copy of everything or at least one other deck.

There are some companies (cough ARK $200 wood boxes) that are worse than others, and others that have NO versions that are gated behind buying something else.

mtsedwards72 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:00 am ... but if y'all think the secondary market will be rife with copies after fulfillment, then maybe I'll take my chances and wait as well. I really only want one deck.

I'd be careful with that assumption. Due to other hobbies I'm far from being as vigilant as an observer of the card market anymore - so grain of salt is advised - but there were quite some decks that disappeared after Kickstarter and never really hit the the reputable secondary market. OG Mirage comes to mind. Or the Ten in One decks. The OG Mirage didn't even show up often on eBay from scalpers. For Meadowlark decks it's a safer bet though.

TL;DR: Don't apply the secondary market pick-up as a rule of thumb.

I am a huge Jonafan and have half bricks of some of his early decks and although an addict of nostalgia TV including "Danger! Danger Will Robinson!" I am surprisingly underwhelmed by the KS pics so the disappointment of no Oz shipping is irrelevant but I do see it as shameful. I will probably just get one of my preferred Interstellar later - purely for the AoS and the Cat Joker

Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:53 pm

mtsedwards72 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:00 am ... but if y'all think the secondary market will be rife with copies after fulfillment, then maybe I'll take my chances and wait as well. I really only want one deck.

I'd be careful with that assumption. Due to other hobbies I'm far from being as vigilant as an observer of the card market anymore - so grain of salt is advised - but there were quite some decks that disappeared after Kickstarter and never really hit the the reputable secondary market. OG Mirage comes to mind. Or the Ten in One decks. The OG Mirage didn't even show up often on eBay from scalpers. For Meadowlark decks it's a safer bet though.

TL;DR: Don't apply the secondary market pick-up as a rule of thumb.

They have already said socal will be getting these, and the legends web site (primarily for international).

Is there a picture of the alternative lunchbox that I'm not seeing?

hsbc wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:19 pm Is there a picture of the alternative lunchbox that I'm not seeing?

From what I read, I understood it to be the same lunchbox with a special stick on it or something like that. But I'm probably wrong.

see the latest reel - there is a color change on front and back:

https://www.instagram.com/meadowlarkdecks/reels/

Okay, I am actually slightly colorblind (for real), are those two different boxes?

hsbc wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:33 pm Okay, I am actually slightly colorblind (for real), are those two different boxes?

Yup, guess I was wrong. The mountains in the back are blue, the ones in the front are orangey.

Oh okay it's clear there -- still way too similar for me to grab both, though

I was super excited for this deck since receiving the teaser postcard in RX Almanac. I adore the theme and the artwork.

Not being in the US, I was disappointed to see the Kickstarter is US/Canada only - but then relieved to see it see it will be available internationally through Legends. Curious why they didn’t just team up with Legends to do international fulfilment as part of the Kickstarter - given that’s kinda what’s happening anyway?

As much as I love the deck (and the lunchbox), the campaign does a few things that I’m usually critical of. Notably, no single deck option and bundling the special edition deck(s) with other decks. Even Ark who was famous for doing box sets only, finally changed their approach on their recent campaign - noting that it was in response to mounting customer feedback. I have no problem with bundling as an option just not the only option. Can’t speak for the economics of it, but as a customer I feel like I’m being force-fed stuff under the guise of ‘more value’ - even though I’d happily pay a hefty premium to get the ones I want (and avoid drowning in decks).

To be fair, the lunchbox is probably more integral to this campaign than your average box - which might complicate the bundling options, pricing (and shipping) somewhat.

Complaints aside, I really do love the deck and, even though I almost never desire non-playing card extras, I was smitten by the lunchbox the moment I saw it.

Int'l folks can get an estimate of the shipping rates to their country for 2 decks (minus lunch box of course) here.

For me in South East Asia, shipping is so much cheaper than if Meadowlark were to ship it from US. Probably 8-10x cheaper. Not sure how it'll be for the Euro folks

Interesting experiment by Meadowlark, but we'll see how it turns out. Butterfly tried to diversify shipping options with their Workers, but it was too expensive to do it again with their Marked deck.

On the cards part does anyone know if the 2 decks will have other differences for the courts besides just the tuck and back?

Eric Lee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:38 pm
On the cards part does anyone know if the 2 decks will have other differences for the courts besides just the tuck and back?

I'd like to know this too.

Love the art. sadly I'm in Taiwan

This project is being advertised on the P52 homepage. I'd love to know how that got up so quickly but why the site rotted for a month or so a few months back?

vasta41 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:45 am This project is being advertised on the P52 homepage. I'd love to know how that got up so quickly but why the site rotted for a month or so a few months back?

There are community members who are not Alex who help with P52.

Fenrir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:04 am

vasta41 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:45 am This project is being advertised on the P52 homepage. I'd love to know how that got up so quickly but why the site rotted for a month or so a few months back?

There are community members who are not Alex who help with P52.

I'd imagine that's a paid ad on the site. Who is handling the money for that if not Alex?

Saw the ad yesterday, I imagine there exists a bank account to pay or an invoice to print, I doubt it signals much in terms of what we desire to know.

Sinecure wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:53 pm
As much as I love the deck (and the lunchbox), the campaign does a few things that I’m usually critical of. Notably, no single deck option and bundling the special edition deck(s) with other decks. Even Ark who was famous for doing box sets only, finally changed their approach on their recent campaign - noting that it was in response to mounting customer feedback. I have no problem with bundling as an option just not the only option. Can’t speak for the economics of it, but as a customer I feel like I’m being force-fed stuff under the guise of ‘more value’ - even though I’d happily pay a hefty premium to get the ones I want (and avoid drowning in decks).

I'm only quoting the above for context... this isn't a direct reply to Sinecure. With small campaigns such as this one, selling only single decks is problematic. Russ is a fantastic designer and not an inexpensive one at that. He's well worth the investment for a beautiful outcome but its not without its challenges. So, as a producer, when I see folks debate the 'value' of a project it disheartens me a bit. Long ago we somehow got away from the idea that we are SUPPORTERS and BACKERS and not customers. It's such a shame, Jonathan is a fantastic dude and its painful to see someone with out ulterior motive create a beautiful project and not be rewarded for it. What's interesting is that in other niches people support creators without the expectation of rewards. I see it a lot with youtubers. Patreons with many supporters and all that is promised is the continued production of content. But in the card world its very much a transactional interaction. We've let this attitude of 'not enough value' become somewhat pervasive. I've gone on at length about my experience with KS campaigns and what goes into my decisions on how to implement rewards and such ad nauseum in other threads so I won't rehash that here, but just know that its getting harder and harder to keep producing cards as a business (Goldsmith for me has broken even only recently and Beetle Backs' profitability is still in question). What that means is if the continued outlook persists there won't be any decks to collect because all of the producers will have moved on. This is true of even well-known producers like lorenzo (who's EOTO2 funding was significantly less than EOTO1).

There will always be all of the decks that have ever been produced to collect, and there will most certainly always be new decks produced.

As for how long the business model of a person trying to make an entire business around making decks - that is certainly an area that only a very few can survive in. The business model evolving into a ton of variations of expensive gilded decks running into the hundreds simply doesn’t have the deep pocket audience to sustain. It also becomes apparent at some point that rather than spending 500 on a new deck campaign you can pick up a treasure from the past, or a bunch of them.

So the new must compete with the old, the other new, and the yet to come. Don’t see it ever being any easier to survive than that.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:20 am With small campaigns such as this one, selling only single decks is problematic. Russ is a fantastic designer and not an inexpensive one at that. He's well worth the investment for a beautiful outcome but its not without its challenges. So, as a producer, when I see folks debate the 'value' of a project it disheartens me a bit. Long ago we somehow got away from the idea that we are SUPPORTERS and BACKERS and not customers. It's such a shame, Jonathan is a fantastic dude and its painful to see someone with out ulterior motive create a beautiful project and not be rewarded for it. What's interesting is that in other niches people support creators without the expectation of rewards. I see it a lot with youtubers. Patreons with many supporters and all that is promised is the continued production of content. But in the card world its very much a transactional interaction. We've let this attitude of 'not enough value' become somewhat pervasive. I've gone on at length about my experience with KS campaigns and what goes into my decisions on how to implement rewards and such ad nauseum in other threads so I won't rehash that here, but just know that its getting harder and harder to keep producing cards as a business (Goldsmith for me has broken even only recently and Beetle Backs' profitability is still in question). What that means is if the continued outlook persists there won't be any decks to collect because all of the producers will have moved on. This is true of even well-known producers like lorenzo (who's EOTO2 funding was significantly less than EOTO1).

Thank you for this perspective. Mine is from a KS Superbacker of board games, tarot decks and most recently playing cards. I understand and acknowledge that crowdfunding is initially a vehicle to support creators; I fully agree and am on board with this mindset. But when larger companies use the platform as a FOMO-inducing presale outlet, it tends to dilute and even pervert Kickstarter's original ethos. It is disheartening.

Regardless, I agree that Jonathan is fantastic! When I'd pledged and inquired as to the possibility of a one-deck tier option, he immediately messaged me personally and suggested I drop the pledge and email him when the campaign was over so he could negotiate with SoCal to get me a single copy. Jonathan is a prince among men, and now, after reading the above post, I want to support him even more. I think I'll just go back and re-pledge for the two decks as I'd originally intended; I couldn't decide on which one to get anyway, so this sorts it out for me.

Again, thank you, GentlemanWake, for the enlightenment.

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:36 am There will always be all of the decks that have ever been produced to collect, and there will most certainly always be new decks produced.

As for how long the business model of a person trying to make an entire business around making decks - that is certainly an area that only a very few can survive in. The business model evolving into a ton of variations of expensive gilded decks running into the hundreds simply doesn’t have the deep pocket audience to sustain. It also becomes apparent at some point that rather than spending 500 on a new deck campaign you can pick up a treasure from the past, or a bunch of them.

So the new must compete with the old, the other new, and the yet to come. Don’t see it ever being any easier to survive than that.

I would argue that a niche hobby needs new products to drive interest and excitement the same way it needs newcomers to the hobby. Which i think, theoretically, is the reason we've seen a drop off in the cards market. Less new folks coming into the hobby--at least in comparison to the amount of collectors leaving it.