UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:04 am**

BMPokerworld wrote:
DukeBoy wrote:
I'm also really excited to announce that today from 6pm - 8pm EST I will be joining my friends at LoopCuts.com and anyone else who would like to come, in a live Q & A session. We will be discussing the Federal 52 Deck and the process that went behind the designs.

Looks like Jackson Might be getting in with the wrong crowd. LoopCuts is is Mr Butler's new gig right?

I just sent him some links to threads on UC about Robert Butler. At least he can read who he is and what he is about. That is about all we can do and hope he protects himself from this con man.

Thanks!

Thanks for the heads up. Rob has not done anything to prove to me any distrust as of yet, but I will be sure to ask him about these question and concerns you guys raise. Thanks for looking out for me.

Jackson

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:07 pm**

Just keep in mind that Butler talks a good game up front and then will give you profuse and eloquent apologies after he's f*cked you in the ass afterwards. I'd definitely look up the threads that BMP sent to you so you can see how unstable Butler is, and I'd talk to CBJ as well. I don't think you need any marketing or other forms of "help" from this guy, you're doing just fine. I'd hate to see this project get derailed in any way.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:30 pm**

BMPokerworld wrote:
DukeBoy wrote:
I'm also really excited to announce that today from 6pm - 8pm EST I will be joining my friends at LoopCuts.com and anyone else who would like to come, in a live Q & A session. We will be discussing the Federal 52 Deck and the process that went behind the designs.

Looks like Jackson Might be getting in with the wrong crowd. LoopCuts is is Mr Butler's new gig right?

I just sent him some links to threads on UC about Robert Butler. At least he can read who he is and what he is about. That is about all we can do and hope he protects himself from this con man.

Thanks!

I talked with Jackson as well, hopefully he'll stay away from that piece of shit. He doesn't need the help, his deck is doing quite well on its own.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:44 pm**

Hey guys. Do you think doing a live Q and A with Loop Cuts will derail my project? I don't have time to get mix up in this type of drama, true or false. Any response will be very welcomed.

Jackson

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:49 pm**

JacksonRobinson wrote:Hey guys. Do you think doing a live Q and A with Loop Cuts will derail my project? I don't have time to get mix up in this type of drama, true or false. Any response will be very welcomed.

Jackson

It makes some people around here nervous that you might decided to get involved with Robert to a greater extent, but a QA is pretty harmless. If you tell us he is helping with distribution... we might run.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:02 pm**

Jackson,

If you viewed the links I sent you and spoke directly to 4PM designs, I think your choice is pretty clear. Even if he does not try to scam you now, he will eventually. That is the way all con-artists and confidence men work. In addition, it probably will not put you in a positive light with the playing card community, to be dealing with people who have such low moral character like Robert Butler & Alex Yusupov.

Thanks!

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:35 pm**

Jackson - i've been on the forums for a while the name Robert Butler has come up a couple of times. it has never been good. the name alex at at http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is resent. BMPokerworld just acquired "Unitedcardists.com" from Russell. i don't think BMPokerworld and alex like each other. Let the bitch slapped begin. this should be fun. don't get involved in the drama, but everything i've heard about 4pm is good. his words have weight. he does help.

dont change your back. it's fine as a 1 way back. next thing they are going to tell you "text" on the back is not successful. want to tell you have basally broken all the rules here, but still made it work. remember keep it simple. no drama.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:19 pm**

sprouts1115 wrote:Jackson - i've been on the forums for a while the name Robert Butler has come up a couple of times. it has never been good. the name alex at at http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. is resent. BMPokerworld just acquired "Unitedcardists.com" from Russell. i don't think BMPokerworld and alex like each other. Let the bitch slapped begin. this should be fun. don't get involved in the drama, but everything i've heard about 4pm is good. his words have weight. he does help.

dont change your back. it's fine as a 1 way back. next thing they are going to tell you "text" on the back is not successful. want to tell you have basally broken all the rules here, but still made it work. remember keep it simple. no drama.

Sprouts,

I am not sure what you mean by Drama? All myself and everyone else on this forum is trying to do is prevent Jackson from getting burned by Alex and Rob. It is that simple. Remember, where one goes, the other soon follows. Alex STOLE from all those people on Kickstarter that never got their cards and he berated them in the process. Robert has NEVER had one positive interaction with anybody in the playing card community, that I am aware of.

Sprouts here is some food for thought for you: It is better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

Thanks!

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:29 pm**

Sprouts here is some food for thought for you: It is better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

Thanks!

: tumblr_lpspft8tzJ1qchccko1_500.gif (499.87 KiB) Viewed 1911 times

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:48 pm**

The only thing I feel should be changed about the back design is to make it bigger, so the borders are thinner.
I'm not a magician. But even as a collector, it's strange to have such thick borders.

Still in love with it, though! Keep it up!

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:51 pm**

Jackson... I can't emphasize enough to stay away from anything Robert is part of.

He has a horrible reputation in the community, and I encourage you to read the following thread thoroughly

http://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopic ... ilit=zarro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you want to stay away from Drama.. then stay away from him.

CBJ

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:56 pm**

JacksonRobinson wrote:Hey guys. Do you think doing a live Q and A with Loop Cuts will derail my project? I don't have time to get mix up in this type of drama, true or false. Any response will be very welcomed.

Jackson

Your project is on a great trajectory as it is so I don't know that a live Q&A with Loop Cuts will be a significant enough benefit sufficient to outweigh any potential fallout from associating with Robert. I think if you post regular updates on KS and participate on the forums, that should be more than enough to properly market your deck.

I don't know who this Sprouts is, but breaking all the card design "rules" and potentially alienating your target demographic doesn't sound like a prudent choice in improving you deck. I would take to heart the constructive criticism/feedback you receive while still maintaining your unique point of view and integrity as a designer.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:02 pm**

My reasoning behind the border was to mimic the actual spacing of that is present in currency. I measured the spacing that is on currency then designed my cards so that when they have are printed the actual size of the spacing is to scale to that of the real currency. These little design elements are things that we are all numb to because we have been looking at money all of our lives. Think about what I dollar bill would look like with no border. My goal was to mimic currency as close as I could while maintaining the spirit of a traditional deck of cards.

Jackson

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:25 pm**

BMPokerworld wrote:
Sprouts here is some food for thought for you: It is better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

Thanks!

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:50 pm**

JacksonRobinson wrote:My reasoning behind the border was to mimic the actual spacing of that is present in currency. I measured the spacing that is on currency then designed my cards so that when they have are printed the actual size of the spacing is to scale to that of the real currency. These little design elements are things that we are all numb to because we have been looking at money all of our lives. Think about what I dollar bill would look like with no border. My goal was to mimic currency as close as I could while maintaining the spirit of a traditional deck of cards.

Jackson

I saw where you were going. And it does mimic it quite well.
But applying the same spacing that's on a dollar bill to a much smaller playing card... I think there's some wiggle room, don't you?

That's just my opinion. Honestly, even if you don't change anything, I'm still a huge fan of the work. In for half a brick already.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:00 pm**

All of these comments are great and I welcome them. I in no way ever meant to "break" rules, i just didn't know the rules. I was following my design background and thinking about the most interesting composition. Now that I am learning and soaking all of this in, I think everyone who wishes to see changes in the back design will be very happy with some things I have planned.

J

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:18 pm**

JacksonRobinson wrote:All of these comments are great and I welcome them. I in no way ever meant to "break" rules, i just didn't know the rules. I was following my design background and thinking about the most interesting composition. Now that I am learning and soaking all of this in, I think everyone who wishes to see changes in the back design will be very happy with some things I have planned.

J

Hey, if we all followed the "rules", this place would get pretty boring.
I appreciate & applaud your unique approach.

And you are very generous to entertain the community's ideas, the way you have.

Thanks again!

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:45 pm**

I love these cards, but is there a way you can do a special or something on the price? because thats the only reason I was unable to pledge. Maybe a one day special or something? Thank you Also, for every one thank you for your support on Vict Playing Cards on kickstarter!! We have many new updates so please do check us out! thank you all

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:37 pm**

JacksonRobinson wrote:All of these comments are great and I welcome them. I in no way ever meant to "break" rules, i just didn't know the rules. I was following my design background and thinking about the most interesting composition. Now that I am learning and soaking all of this in, I think everyone who wishes to see changes in the back design will be very happy with some things I have planned.

J

Bad news is you'll never please everybody 100%. Good news is you've already got a great following Jackson and that's very evident by the comments here and the lightning fast pace you achieved funding on KS. Keep up the good work and follow your instincts, you're gonna sell a lot of decks.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:05 pm**

@Jackson Robinson: I will agree somewhat with the notion that you are "breaking the rules" and still making it work, because the theme of the deck is very consistent and works well. However, that does not change the fact that most people (in this community anyway) DO prefer thin borders, two-way back designs and no text on the backs. Yes, thick borders fit with this theme like you said, as do the text (for obvious reasons as it is inspired by dollar bills which has both). And I wouldn't say you HAVE to make a two-way back design to please more people, but it wouldn't hurt either.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: always stick to your theme. The "rules" are there, they CAN be broken if it fits the theme, but don't ignore them just to go against the current (which is what sprouts seem to be saying).

Ps. Sorry for all the parentheses

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:24 pm**

Jackson, I really like the pips in the corners of the back, and I think you'd have to remove those to make a 2-way back. I don't know what your alternative would be (I might well like it too!), but I like it the way it is, it's unique.

Thin borders are only important when people are making fans. As this is a card flourishing kind of place, that's many of the people here. However, you might find a compromise by pushing the corner pips a little further out and extending some scrollwork up the sides a short ways from each corner so that those designs show up well in a fan, while still leaving the heavy border at the proper money-equivalent distance from the edge.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:40 pm**

samurai007 wrote:Thin borders are only important when people are making fans. As this is a card flourishing kind of place, that's many of the people here. However, you might find a compromise by pushing the corner pips a little further out and extending some scrollwork up the sides a short ways from each corner so that those designs show up well in a fan, while still leaving the heavy border at the proper money-equivalent distance from the edge.

I think this is a great idea.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:50 pm**

MagikFingerz wrote:
samurai007 wrote:Thin borders are only important when people are making fans. As this is a card flourishing kind of place, that's many of the people here. However, you might find a compromise by pushing the corner pips a little further out and extending some scrollwork up the sides a short ways from each corner so that those designs show up well in a fan, while still leaving the heavy border at the proper money-equivalent distance from the edge.
I think this is a great idea.

Me too! Hope he doesn't mind the extra work

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:07 pm**

MagikFingerz wrote:I like this. Not too sure about the one-way back though, but I don't see how it could be done differently.

This is also overpriced on both deck and international shipping like many other recent kickstarters, but not as bad as some.

jackson - if you can get MagikFingera to buy one of your decks, you got something. he is like the CEO of Tighwads International Shipping.

he is the pulse of international shipping.

I can't believe you all don't see it? the back works so well. i've seen lots of backs and normally "1 way backs" don't look good and are a distraction. this back is not a distraction. that is the genius. http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; he doesn't need to change anything.

also, don't change your border corners. can i call them that? like "fluff items". i like badges and ribbons. don't change the border corners either; it goes well with the "1 way back"

I would like to see more court cards. noticed your king was different on each side. keep it up with that differences in the court cards. i think that is the future. especially if you can tell a story within the court cards.

food for thought. any more quotes from Abraham Lincoln or Mark Twain makes my middle finger get a bonner. seems like "Really" is the new catch phrase. and have you noticed the word "Basically" is used.....

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:03 pm**

If I lived outside of the US, I'd be up at arms about shipping as well! International shipping has become prohibitively expensive as it is, so I don't blame anyone for not wanting to pay any extra above and beyond what is already too high of a charge. I don't think people on KS really calculate accurate international shipping rates considering most projects factor the cost of domestic shipping into the price of the deck, so the add on for international rates in many cases are too inflated, as Mike of BMPokerWorld has pointed out in many other threads. I'm just glad I live in the US so shipping doesn't cost me an arm and a leg....

I like how it looks like each Ace is getting special treatment, but I would encourage you to make the Ace of Spades the biggest and most elaborate of all the Aces.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:01 pm**

sprouts1115 wrote:
I can't believe you all don't see it? the back works so well. i've seen lots of backs and normally "1 way backs" don't look good and are a distraction. this back is not a distraction. that is the genius. http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;....................... he doesn't need to change anything.

also, don't change your border corners. can i call them that? like "fluff items". i like badges and ribbons. don't change the border corners either; it goes well with the "1 way back"

I would like to see more court cards. noticed your king was different on each side. keep it up with that differences in the court cards. i think that is the future. especially if you can tell a story within the court cards.

Sprouts,

I myself have personally heard that other backers would drop their pledges if the clearly 1-way back is not changed, like many have said the faces are gorgeous, but the back design needs work. Even if the 52 looks like a 25 when flipped around it does not stand for anything, the words federal are still flipped around and the emblem is still clearly one way and a pain to see when shuffled. It seems that you are very keen on breaking the 'standard rules', if you havent already realised the 'standards' were established for a purpose, wonder if that has anything to do at all with your god-knows-how-many-cards-you-want-in-a-deck project, hmm..

On the other hand, i dont mind the corner pips being one of each suit as it is a symbol of playing cards and actually works really well with the design, and would not be overly distracting even when it gets shuffled around. And also the hand-drawing and inking of each of the aces was the key to me pledging to this very expensive deck, kickstarter is starting to really becoming unaffordable..

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:31 pm**

The backs look great - sure it gets messy when you shuffle, play cards, reverse cards etc... but then you loose the aesthetic of the four pips in the corners. Part of this decks appeal is the fact that it looks like money. From what I can see, all the court and face cards are 1 way as well. Right?

Upside down the 52 could be a card reveal? 7S?

I've got tons of 1 way back decks, even the latest Bee Erdnase deck is a 1 way back.

So backing this project.... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight now

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:46 pm**

For the record, the card flipped around would not show "25". The image that sprouts is showing is a mirrored image. Unfortunately that's not correct. The correct image is rotated 180 degrees

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:01 pm**

it would have to be drawn like an ambigram to keep the same image and then you'd lose the aesthetic of the fact that it looks like money

Posted: **Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:52 am**

One-way backs make a great first edition (like the 1st Edition JAQK Deck).
I'm even fine with the thick borders. Disregard my earlier gripe.

This project is funding, so as long as Mr. Robinson doesn't mind doing a second edition with all the bells and whistles... lets leave his original vision (a work of art) alone.

Edit: Here's his latest update -

"Thank you to everyone for all of your incredible support. I am super excited to release the first new card design, The Ace of Clubs. I am also exited to announce that with the release of each new Ace I will be making available 100 decks available at the $11 pledge tier, at 12pm Pacific. I will be calling these limited releases "Celebration Decks"

Just to be sure these are the exact same Federal 52 decks. There is nothing different or unique about these specific decks. It is just a way for me to say thank you to all of you out there who are supporting me, and encouraging me.

This is a list of the cards that when released, will be followed by a Celebration deck pledge tier. So when you get an update for these cards be ready for the release an hour or so later. I will be doing these at random times, so I can make it possible for backers around the world to take part.

Ace of Clubs / Ace of Hearts / Ace of Diamonds / Joker 1 / Joker 2"

UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

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