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victplayingcards wrote:I'm fairly new to the playing card world, but its shocking that people are so into name brands. If the cards are great quality and they handle good, then why is everyone so hostile? If anyone could answer that would be great.

Thank you!!

Best regards
Vict Playing Cards

This is the most important question you asked in regards to your card manufacturer and I don't think anyone specifically gave an answer, so let me try.

If the only thing you do with a deck of cards is play poker or keep it unopened and sealed strictly for collecting purposes, then it may not actually matter who produces the cards. However, for you to have a successful campaign, you have to appeal to a broader target audience, and that will have to include magicians, card mechanics and cardists/flourishers/xcmers. This group needs playing cards that have physical properties and characteristics that will allow them to manipulate a deck of cards, sometimes to extreme degrees, to perform their respective crafts.

Perhaps because you are so new to the playing card world that you are not aware of what these physical properties and characteristics are that a quality deck of playing cards require. These physical requirements can be broken down into 3 general properties: the type of card stock, the type of finish, and the method by which the deck is cut.

The card stock determines how thick or thin a card is, which affects ease of manipulation and durability. It also determines the "snap" of the card, which is how flexible a card is and how quickly will it recover to its original state after it has been bent. The finish is essential in how the indivicual cards glide against each other as they're being manipulated. You want suficient slip so that the cards will fan and spread evenly and effortlessly, but you want a sufficient amount of controlled friction to the cards can be divided into packets without flying everywhere. How a deck is cut determines how smooth the egdes of the cards are for comfort and ease of use, and more importantly, which direction the cards faro, or weave, together.

There is a reason most people prefer the USPC, and its NOT just about name brands. They do the best job of getting all three properties corect. Their range of card stock is good, their cutting process is sufficient, and they put on the best finish on their cards. Period.

There are a lot of other playing card manufacturers that have really great card stock, or they cut the cards as well, or in some cases even better and more accurately, than the USPC. But I have yet to see anyone out there get all three properties down as well as the USPCC, especially when it comes to the finish. In fact, most of these other companies bitterly disappoint us. This is why you see so much skepticism when you talk about using anyone other than the USPCC. I am not saying that this is you, but I suspect most people who opt for these other companies care more about the bottom line and profit as opposed to truely getting the best quality product into their backer's hands. In life, you generally get what you pay for, so if you skimp with the card manufacturere, you'll probably get an inferior product. Sure, there are other companies that are merely decent or OK, but they are not good. Tout excellent design if you want, but don't go touting excellent quality if you don't use the USPC. Knowledgeable people in the playing card world know better and will consider claims of excellent quality as false advertisement.

If you will be truthful, do you really think you can sell a playing card product on Kickstarter as having great design but merely mediocre or adequate quality? You will not get funded. When you finaly get your sample deck, compare it with a deck of Tally Ho playing cards, which are mass produced and readily available, and you should notice the quality difference pretty easily if you know what you're looking for. And if you don't know what to look for, get an opinion from someone who does. Otherwise you're are doing a disservice to your supporters and ripping them off.

Most people know what magicians do with cards, but the following is a link to a video showing you what a skilled cardist can do with a deck of cards. Please watch this video and you should get an idea of the level of performance that can be achieved, and the quality of the cards needed to make this performance possible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5qjPKl2qq4

Hello Alric! Wow, its so refreshing to see someone who actually had some helpful input rather than only harsh criticism. After today, I definitely see how much people value the quality of these cards, and how passionate they are to get the right product. And I have come on the same page as everyone, I will put an update on my page that the new stretch goal for the USPC will be 9000k but we will not have the embossed tucks. So hopefully people will see I am trying my best to try and make this work. As far as what will happen in the end with me paying out of pocket or not, well lets hope its not too much Once again thank you for taking the time and showing me exactly what most people are looking for. And as I promised, the next deck I do will have bicycle behind printing it! Also please refer to previous page for price details and see if you have a suggestion. Thank you

AND GUYS BE SURE TO CHECK THE UPDATE!! I have made the stretch goal to 9K!!

Thank you all!!

victplayingcards wrote:Hello, here are some numbers that I got, please see if any one have advice as to what to do for my next project if I go with USPCC

This is how I got to 15k just to be safe for the previous project. If any one can help me work with these numbers in a way where I can bring the stretch goal down and still be able to go with USPCC that would be great! Maybe take out the custom tuck boxes because thats what cost me a lot. that way I can make the stretch goal 8500 to 9000k. What do you guys think?

Thank you guys!

I've spent dozens of hours running spreadsheets and calculations and I've concluded that you can't go below $10,000 as a funding goal for a USPCC deck. By the time you add up the deck printing costs, the cuts Kickstarter and Amazon take, and shipping costs, you're up there at $10,000 or more. There have been some KS projects that were funded at only $8000 or so, the Lumberjacks deck is one example, and I can't imagine that the creators of those projects would have enough money to ship everything out without using additional money that didn't come from Kickstarter.

You're always better off figuring out a safe goal for your project and sticking with that, rather than trying with some smaller goal and hoping you'll get a lot of overfunding. As Kickstarter has been out for several years now and has become mainstream, enough people, backers, have used it and have gotten burned, so there is an understandable level of suspicion around campaigns that don't seem well thought out. And you know, sometimes you spend months and months working on the design of the project, and then more months and months getting everything together for Kickstarter and making sure everthing is ready to go as soon as funding is closed... and yet still people don't rush to back your project as you had hoped.

I can say with a straight face that I believe my campaign is one of the most well-prepared and detailed campaigns out here: I provided pictures of all the cards, you can see everything that's going to go into the deck, I had a prototype deck made and provided pictures of that, I broke down the campaign schedule by the week, and I detailed every last thing about the rewards, pledging, delivery, risks, and so on. The only thing I didn't do is give people my Social Security number! In fact, I'm starting to think that maybe I wrote too much and that people aren't even reading the whole project description. But even after all that, I don't have people breaking down my door to back the project.

However, on the flip side, if you DO NOT put forth a well-prepared and detailed campaign, people won't back you, even if they do like your product, because they don't want to get burned by something that you didn't plan for that then prevents you from delivering what you promised your backers.

I understand that you have learned a lot through this process. As J.R.R. Tolkien wrote in the Lord of the Rings: "The burned hand learns best." I would have suggested that you come on here and ask for some advice about how to set up a robust KS project before you launched yours, but what's done is done. I am a backer of your current project and I have to say that I am inclined to agree that you should probably cancel the project, go back and rework everything and then try again, rather than try to salvage the current project by offering stretch goals which change the printer from the one you have to USPCC. It's just cleaner to have the project you end with be the same one you started with, rather than making some drastic change midstream. Also, it's better to be upfront with your backers, and with people who would become your backers, and tell them that you made some mistakes and would like to try again, rather than just keep moving forward and have to undo those mistakes, whatever they may be. I think your backers would be more willing to give you another chance in that situation.

Hello Zaid! Thank you for doing those calculations!! I see what everyone say's and I truly do understand it. But Im hopping to see what the prototype cards actually look like before I decide to cancel. And honestly if they come out good but not great, I think most people will be happy with them as the cool deck of cards rather than the best deck of cards. I hope you kinda see what Im trying to say. Hopefully the backers see the challenge area of my project and realize that these may not be greatest playing cards to do the best cardistry or magic with, but they are a good ornamental design to keep for regular games or just show. One of the main reason why I pledged for your deck is exactly that, not so I can handle them like a pro, but because they are such a beautiful work of art. Also I would love to have those images weather they are on cards, or in a magazine, simply of how much time and thought was put into them. So if you are willing to send me a PDF copy I would love it So with that said, hopefully everyone learn to see me as the guy who enjoys creating art rather than the business man who wants to sell cards.

victplayingcards wrote:Wow, its so refreshing to see someone who actually had some helpful input rather than only harsh criticism.

I don't know what you're talking about; looking back through the thread I see a bunch of helpful input (though some of it may be a bit harsh).

The thing that you should also understand is that everything you say about "doing it right the next time" and having to use some of your own money is nothing else than words to us. For all we know, you could be broke and planning on running off with the money after this project is funded. I'm not saying you will, but as consumers we ought to know better than to just trust blindly in the words of someone trying to sell us something. I realize that kickstarter isn't the best shopping place for the cynical card collector, but seeing that someone has taken their time to plan everything out by the letter usually eases the minds of most of us.

I see what your saying Tom, and my reply to that is I will be putting some samples of different things, which does show I'm very seriouse and I'm defiantly not going to run with 5k lol maybe I would with 5mil but not 5k. J/k Being a med student my earning in a part time job is well over that in a week. Designing cards is a passion for me and not a business. Just a heads up to everyone, I will not be able to reply to any messages until the end of April, as I do have a lot of HW that I'm behind on. So I wish everyone great luck with any endeavors, and please don't forget your good friend Vict as I will be around for a long time to come !!

Thank you all!!

So you got your deck sample I see,





How is the quality?

Hi there!! Well ill be 100% honest, it's not Bicycle. I sampled both cards, and had friends and family do it too, here is the differences. Bicycle weight 1g TMcards2g I liked a bit heavier feel of TMcards and so did people I showed it to.
Bicycle had havyier embossing TM had slightly lower Bicycle defiantly was better on that end. The color and look and cut and size were almost identical. The handling bicycle 5/5 TM cards 4.5/5. Over all and this is no BS I give bicycle 5 out of 5 for sure! TM cards overal 4.5 out of 5 and the main reason is the fact that TM had lighter embossing. But here is what I requested, I asked them to get me the most embossed paper from Germany, and that's what we're going to go with. So hopefully the embossing on the German stock will bring TM cards extremely close to those of bicycle. Thank you!

Ohh yeah, German paper is the best! I used to only use fine Italian paper but then I felt German. Sooooo good.

kein machen Sie lustig sich nicht über dem deutschen Papier. unser Papier zerstört Ihr dummes amerikanisches Papier jeder möglicher Wochentag!

Deutsch Papier ist das beste!

Well, it seems they got their fund. According quicktraq (not sure if it is accurate in its premonitions) they will reach the USPCC funding stretch goal so... go for it!

Best wishes and good luck!

Max