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Wayyyyy too many decks will be printed. Just sold my last set from 2 years ago at a ridiculous price and will be dropping my producer pledge.. In the end win win when you are trying to cut down

badpete69,

Let me know when you drop.

sinjin7 wrote:If you're looking to speculate on these decks by ordering a lot more than you need in order to sell them at huge profits later on, don't bother. My suspicion is that Asad is printing significantly more decks than needed for his KS fulfillment based on the amount of money he's raising. They'll be plenty available well after his campaign ends. Remember, only the Frost Mint deck is limited, but given that anyone can order up to a brick means literally thousands of the "limited" Frost Mint decks will be in circulation as well. If he raises between $300K-$400K+, he'll easily be able to print in bulk to get even further price breaks from the USPCC for his unlimited Blueberry and Cucumber decks, even with blinged out tuck boxes. I wouldn't even be surprised to see these decks at an outfit like Touch of Modern at some point in the future.

It's tough to say why some decks go viral and other's don't. At least these Mint decks have some merit, unlike a deck like the Fontaines. It's a clean and classic design, especially the full bleed "limited" version, and printed by the USPCC. The first Mint decks had understated and elegant tucks, and I expect the same, if not better, for these. Normally I'd be in for at least a couple of bricks for a well designed deck that appeals to me like this one does, but the same thing that held me back the first time will hold me back to just a few of each version this time as well: these are marked decks. It's such a shame. I get that his target demographic the first time around was primarily magicians, but since this deck is enjoying such mass appeal, I wish he would provide an unmarked version - I would be all over than one. But as is, these aren't fit for serious poker games. . .

Same thought...he keep pushing the $100s of dollar for LE on ebay story

Can't wait for the market to crash and burn on the LE

I'm sorry, but producing a new deck to pander to people that want to "get rich quick" by selling them on eBay, just pisses me off. This is an outrageously stupid idea. I'm buying the LEs because they look nice and I'll play with them. I don't care if they print 1,000 or 5,000 (most Ellusionist LEs are 5,000 print runs).

Specifically printing another design just because some people want them to be as exclusive/rare/valuable as the original Black Mint LEs is making me considering dropping my pledge altogether. It's just as f^&*ing dumb as people using "Cardistry" to sell their s^&*ty design. Losing my respect real quick on this one.

Hold on a sec... it was a valid point to mention that his previous release was highly sought after IF and WHEN he did it was at the launch of the new campaign. If this campaign blew up it’s not really his responsibility to change the marketing or language of his campaign prior to it blowing up. So where’s this backlash coming from?

Edit: I went back and looked at his recent IG and YT posts and there’s nothing hyping the resale value of mint 1 anywhere post release of the mint 2 campaign. If people bought into this campaign because of the “resale” value that’s on them. Be angry at those people. Lol. Ultimately the man would be dumb to limit his own success by cutting off and saying “wait a minute, that’s too many decks I just sold!” Now I could be missing something and if I am please educate me.

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TheGentlemanWake wrote:Hold on a sec... it was a valid point to mention that his previous release was highly sought after IF and WHEN he did it was at the launch of the new campaign. If this campaign blew up it’s not really his responsibility to change the marketing or language of his campaign prior to it blowing up. So where’s this backlash coming from?

Edit: I went back and looked at his recent IG and YT posts and there’s nothing hyping the resale value of mint 1 anywhere post release of the mint 2 campaign. If people bought into this campaign because of the “resale” value that’s on them. Be angry at those people. Lol. Ultimately the man would be dumb to limit his own success by cutting off and saying “wait a minute, that’s too many decks I just sold!” Now I could be missing something and if I am please educate me.

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He sent an update (yesterday?) telling us that he's creating a new (4th deck) design specifically for people that want one for resale value since the LEs of this campaign will not be that rare or valuable. That's what my post, in particular, is venting about.

Edit 2:

Ok I found the post in question. Yeah do not like “guaranteed to skyrocket in price once campaign is over”.

That’s a speculative comment he should refrain from making. It’s not like apple or Tesla or anyone else for that matter hypes their product on how much it will fetch on the aftermarket.

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This might have been the quickest, best-handled argument in UC history. Well done, chaps!

Haha. I’m a reasonable guy Vasta. I need only be given evidence and I will adjust my thinking.


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TheGentlemanWake wrote:Haha. I’m a reasonable guy Vasta. I need only be given evidence and I will adjust my thinking.


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I was only half kidding around. I just thought it was funny that every time I refreshed the page there was a new comment and by the time I read your posts the tiff had come and gone.

vasta41 wrote:

TheGentlemanWake wrote:Haha. I’m a reasonable guy Vasta. I need only be given evidence and I will adjust my thinking.


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I was only half kidding around. I just thought it was funny that every time I refreshed the page there was a new comment and by the time I read your posts the tiff had come and gone.

Worst Mod ever.

TwoPiece wrote:

vasta41 wrote:

TheGentlemanWake wrote:Haha. I’m a reasonable guy Vasta. I need only be given evidence and I will adjust my thinking.


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I was only half kidding around. I just thought it was funny that every time I refreshed the page there was a new comment and by the time I read your posts the tiff had come and gone.

Worst Mod ever.

Assuming that was sarcasm I just want to stipulate that I wasn't "watching" that argument with any intentions of wielding any power- I'm just bored at work.

vasta41 wrote:

TwoPiece wrote:

vasta41 wrote: I was only half kidding around. I just thought it was funny that every time I refreshed the page there was a new comment and by the time I read your posts the tiff had come and gone.

Worst Mod ever.

Assuming that was sarcasm I just want to stipulate that I wasn't "watching" that argument with any intentions of wielding any power- I'm just bored at work.

Aren't we all?

First, I think the creator is being up front in how he built and is handling the campaign. That it is wildly successful is a a great thing for the creator. Hopefully, folks are not looking at this to be some great money-spinner and are looking at getting some great decks. Edit: read the latest posts, okay he did hype them up. Seriously, most creators do that. If you fall for it, well that is just on you IMHO.

I am a little concerned that the Kickstarter only deck (Frost MINT) are $6 (or 46%) more than the others with no big extra costs justifying the higher fee other than they are a Kickstarter only deck limited to 12 per backer during the campaign. Most other Limited decks that have a higher price tag on Kickstarter have some additional feature(s), like a custom tuck with numbering on the seal, or foiled back cards. Something additional to justify the higher fee. That said, the pricing and features have been clearly explained. Adding yet another deck, means he will likely extract yet more money from me. Heck, if I was him that sounds like a good thing. I still don't think this new limited deck will be that rare. I just hope it is more than a recolor.

Personally, I am looking forward more to Neo:Wave than these decks, even if these decks are much more popular.

Bradius wrote:First, I think the creator is being up front in how he built and is handling the campaign. That it is wildly successful is a a great thing for the creator. Hopefully, folks are not looking at this to be some great money-spinner and are looking at getting some great decks. Edit: read the latest posts, okay he did hype them up. Seriously, most creators do that. If you fall for it, well that is just on you IMHO.

I am a little concerned that the Kickstarter only deck (Frost MINT) are $6 (or 46%) more than the others with no big extra costs justifying the higher fee other than they are a Kickstarter only deck limited to 12 per backer during the campaign. Most other Limited decks that have a higher price tag on Kickstarter have some additional feature(s), like a custom tuck with numbering on the seal, or foiled back cards. Something additional to justify the higher fee. That said, the pricing and features have been clearly explained. Adding yet another deck, means he will likely extract yet more money from me. Heck, if I was him that sounds like a good thing. I still don't think this new limited deck will be that rare. I just hope it is more than a recolor.

Personally, I am looking forward more to Neo:Wave than these decks, even if these decks are much more popular.

The original LE decks were $15. The pricing difference between the SE and LE decks, in this campaign, are close to that of the original campaign. The creator, however, did NOT create an LE deck in his first campaign specifically for resale value. Now he's doing that. It's 100% deplorable for a deck designer to create and advertise a deck specifically for resale value. Really, really pisses me off.

Let's get a little perspective here. The primary reason for custom playing cards has always been profit-driven, both for the producers of the decks right on down to the collectors. This has been the case since E put out the Black Tiger and Black Ghost decks, and to deny this would be ignorant. Producers have been constantly coming up with gimmicks and schemes to further boost profits, whether we like it or not. And in many ways we're complicit because at the end of the day we're the ones paying the premiums or buying extra decks to get the "limited" editions and enable the market to bear these practices.

While I've never liked the gimmicks and borderline false advertising from E, T11, D&D, right on down to all the KS creators, I never will say they shouldn't be allowed to do so. I vote with my wallet instead and encourage others to do so as well. Regardless of your profession, if you found a way to make more money (legally, of course) through some promotion or advertising at your work, no one here would tolerate being told they couldn't do that anymore, or they don't have the right to make more money for themselves and their families, or be told how to do their job "the right way".

The fact of the matter is that deck producers have the highest margins of profit from "limited" editions. Often times they're merely the identical cards put in fancier packaging and made available in artificially limited quantities. Why do you think someone like Jackson makes Legacy Editions? It's because 1) he makes a much higher percentage of profit from such "limited" decks, 2) these "limited" decks help drive interest, attention, and sales of the regular decks, and 3) Jackson knows he can sell the "limited" decks at very high price points because he knows collectors who buy them will be able to re-sell at even higher prices, which is why collectors are so eager to buy them in the first place. Yeah, yeah, I know there are some of you saying there are fanboys out there who slurp up everything an artist puts out solely because they're so enamored purely with the intrinsic beauty and art only, blah blah blah. These people are far outnumbered by the speculators. But with very few exceptions, when producers put out an expensive "limited" edition, it is implicitly for resale in the secondary market, and so far the markets bear the price of the resale prices. So why wouldn't Asad sell them as such?

We can piss and moan all we want, and think these practices are deplorable, but the likes of E, T11, D&D, and all these KS producers couldn't care less as long as the money keeps rolling in. As for this project in particular, what Asad is doing is brilliant. . .for him. He's making plenty of money with the sales of his regular decks, and the sales of his "limited" deck (which he makes even more profit on) is so damn high they're no longer even "limited". So what does he do? He comes out with an even more "limited" deck specifically for resale value (which we should all know by now is the implicit purpose of such uber "limited" decks). Are we really going to tell Asad, "Hey Asad, what you're doing hurts my feelings, stop making so much money!"? If you don't like it, just vote with your wallets. If we're a little more responsible as collectors, this heavily saturated and bloated bubble will collapse and the market will correct itself and a lot of the predatory speculators and vultures out there will get burned out of business then.

sinjin7 wrote: The fact of the matter is that deck producers have the highest margins of profit from "limited" editions. Often times they're merely the identical cards put in fancier packaging and made available in artificially limited quantities. Why do you think someone like Jackson makes Legacy Editions? It's because 1) he makes a much higher percentage of profit from such "limited" decks, 2) these "limited" decks help drive interest, attention, and sales of the regular decks,

In some cases a limited deck means less money for a creator. Let's say I sell one uspcc deck for $10. To make same profit from a limited deck I need to set the price to US$50. If we are talking about $15 deck, it's $75 for a limited one. It's just one example from my last campaign. But I agree with #2

But at this point, the deck won't be worth 100s on ebay.

And as he keeps on pushing this story it will be, he is sort of giving falsehood..

sinjin7 wrote:Let's get a little perspective here. The primary reason for custom playing cards has always been profit-driven, both for the producers of the decks right on down to the collectors. This has been the case since E put out the Black Tiger and Black Ghost decks, and to deny this would be ignorant. Producers have been constantly coming up with gimmicks and schemes to further boost profits, whether we like it or not. And in many ways we're complicit because at the end of the day we're the ones paying the premiums or buying extra decks to get the "limited" editions and enable the market to bear these practices.

While I've never liked the gimmicks and borderline false advertising from E, T11, D&D, right on down to all the KS creators, I never will say they shouldn't be allowed to do so. I vote with my wallet instead and encourage others to do so as well. Regardless of your profession, if you found a way to make more money (legally, of course) through some promotion or advertising at your work, no one here would tolerate being told they couldn't do that anymore, or they don't have the right to make more money for themselves and their families, or be told how to do their job "the right way".

The fact of the matter is that deck producers have the highest margins of profit from "limited" editions. Often times they're merely the identical cards put in fancier packaging and made available in artificially limited quantities. Why do you think someone like Jackson makes Legacy Editions? It's because 1) he makes a much higher percentage of profit from such "limited" decks, 2) these "limited" decks help drive interest, attention, and sales of the regular decks, and 3) Jackson knows he can sell the "limited" decks at very high price points because he knows collectors who buy them will be able to re-sell at even higher prices, which is why collectors are so eager to buy them in the first place. Yeah, yeah, I know there are some of you saying there are fanboys out there who slurp up everything an artist puts out solely because they're so enamored purely with the intrinsic beauty and art only, blah blah blah. These people are far outnumbered by the speculators. But with very few exceptions, when producers put out an expensive "limited" edition, it is implicitly for resale in the secondary market, and so far the markets bear the price of the resale prices. So why wouldn't Asad sell them as such?

We can piss and moan all we want, and think these practices are deplorable, but the likes of E, T11, D&D, and all these KS producers couldn't care less as long as the money keeps rolling in. As for this project in particular, what Asad is doing is brilliant. . .for him. He's making plenty of money with the sales of his regular decks, and the sales of his "limited" deck (which he makes even more profit on) is so damn high they're no longer even "limited". So what does he do? He comes out with an even more "limited" deck specifically for resale value (which we should all know by now is the implicit purpose of such uber "limited" decks). Are we really going to tell Asad, "Hey Asad, what you're doing hurts my feelings, stop making so much money!"? If you don't like it, just vote with your wallets. If we're a little more responsible as collectors, this heavily saturated and bloated bubble will collapse and the market will correct itself and a lot of the predatory speculators and vultures out there will get burned out of business then.

Well, obviously products exist and sell to receive profit... The problem isn't selling a product for profit, the problem is advertising an alleged product, specifically for resale value. What's the point?

I also cannot disagree more with your assertion that all LE decks are created for resale value, because they just aren't. Some losers will buy a legacy deck for resale value, but as far as I can tell, the majority of buyers get them for collecting, displaying, and playing.

Why doesn't he just print a bond that says, "this ticket is worth $50", and sell them for $25? He's tarnishing, for me, a great campaign with a completely garbage tactic.

With 4500 backers and almost 300K$ I don't think he really cares about your feelings two pieces hehehe. tell me though why do you care so much? Every collector wants his collection to be worth some kind of money in the future as it is secretly the essence of every collector be it stamps, comic books, sport cards, there are always those special item you display and love that they are worth $$$. he is just poking at that emotion and frankly he did not need to as it seems he has a major following

I just dont get why we should care.. big effin deal Just ignore the campaign and move on seems it will save you lots of aggravation

badpete69 wrote:With 4500 backers and almost 300K$ I don't think he really cares about your feelings two pieces hehehe. tell me though why do you care so much? Every collector wants his collection to be worth some kind of money in the future as it is secretly the essence of every collector be it stamps, comic books, sport cards, there are always those special item you display and love that they are worth $$$. he is just poking at that emotion and frankly he did not need to as it seems he has a major following

I just dont get why we should care.. big effin deal Just ignore the campaign and move on seems it will save you lots of aggravation

Is it nice knowing that I have a lot of valuable decks in my collection? Yes. I didn't buy them for purposes of re-selling, though. We've discussed this kind of stuff here before.

I backed this campaign because I like the original LE deck, and the new one also looks very nice. Most of us seem to dislike the money-grabbers like Fontaines and "I call it a cardistry deck so give me money" decks. They don't do anything good for players OR collectors. Advertising a deck as "for those who want resale value to sell for hundreds of dollars on eBay" is equally as bad, If not worse, than previously mentioned decks. Like I said... Why not just print a voucher claiming that it's worth XX and sell it for X? You obviously don't care about the actual deck (unlike the LEs actually designed for the campaign).

I'm looking at it from the perspective of a player and a collector, and it pisses both of them off.

Edit: It also panders to, and perpetuates, people who buy Lotrek decks just to re-sell them on eBay. I don't think any of us want that to continue. This type of advertisement acknowledges and condones the actions of those types of people that make it more difficult for real players and collectors to get into, or stay into, playing and collecting nice custom playing card decks.

good answer.... In the end I lost interest in this campaign, dropped my producer pledge level and sold my remaining first edition decks which paid for my first class airplane ticket for my second Vegas trip this year upcoming in October. Time to play some more tournament poker

badpete69 wrote:good answer.... In the end I lost interest in this campaign, dropped my producer pledge level and sold my remaining first edition decks which paid for my first class airplane ticket for my second Vegas trip this year upcoming in October. Time to play some more tournament poker

Daaaaaaang. I haven't been to Vegas yet (still in my 20's). Hopefully someday soon.

I'm considering dropping my pledge, but the LEs do look very nice, and metallic inks have been mentioned for use on the back design. I think that I need to keep it, because I like the decks more than I hate the creator's mindset for the "Ultra Limited" deck. Similar to how I don't back JR's decks anymore, but I did have to pledge for the Olive Tally-Hos.

I did drop my support from a brick to 6 decks, though.

ooo You have to go to Vegas my friend... Great times always.. This is my 56th trip coming up and no I do not have a gambling problem.. I have a gambling hobby [MURRAY]

Over 300 000 dollars pleged now. Jesus...

Ultra limited deck released. Limited to one per person only available for first day backers atm. 26 dollars a piece.

Now quickly, add your $26 for a collectors edition with no renderings and a max print run of 3500.

His own words "If you are a Day One backer, then please add $26 to your current pledge to reserve your Foiled Frost Mint deck! Please do this as soon as possible in order to claim your deck before I open it up to all of the other backers."

What a joke this campaign has gotten, glad to see he's maximizing his profits ten-fold. Essentially he's looking to make another $91k if he sells out of this "collectors edition". Didn't know it costed that much to make foiled cards at such a high print run.

I don't think that is a bad price. Yeah, he will definitely sell out. I am in without hesitation. Not sure how you are supposed to confirm, so I just messaged him through Kickstarter.

Bradius wrote:I don't think that is a bad price. Yeah, he will definitely sell out. I am in without hesitation. Not sure how you are supposed to confirm, so I just messaged him through Kickstarter.

I just pledged. Do you think we need to message him?

I always send a message when I increase me pledge. Some creators want it some just write back and say to indicate where I want the extra funds to go in the survey or backerkit. I do it however not just for the creators but also as a reminder to myself. That way when the backerkit or survey does come I can look back at my message and see where I wanted the extra pledge money to go. I sometimes forget in my old age.