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Apart from the greed and appetite for backers' blood, another reason for having Prism and Dynastinae editions grouped with other decks is the fact that it's the only way to avoid overselling. Running a campaign with 300 backers, it's easier to do it manually and tell people "Stop, it's sold out" but with 1K + things get much much more complicated. If KS allowed backers to select multiple tiers, we wouldn't be discussing now...

Ice_Panda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:55 pm
I also think if you are upset with the way stuff is handled you can easily say that in a few lines of one post. at this point these two just look like 14 year olds who just got dumped and are WAY bitter.

I have expressed my opinion in a few lines on one post. So I assume (hope) you're not talking about me. And for the record I also stated that the "one-of-each" tier that I currently have (which is actually just a measly little three deck tier now) is all I want. So I really don't even have a horse in this "why do I have to spend more money to get exclusive decks or whatever this is all about" race.

MagikFingerz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:36 am But, Omar was clear from the beginning about how many decks there were going to be

Maybe he was, but I certainly don't recall. So maybe it's my fault but I disagree on the level of clarity you speak of. 17 pages into this thread I'm more confused than on the 1st post. Not Omar's fault, I know, but it also wasn't too clear to me on the project page either.

Ragzzz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:48 am I mean...what ever happened to the good old Standard Ed & Ltd Edition only projects

AMEN.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:33 pm

Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:16 pm This might be a redundant question; but since money is tight; will the most elaborate edition be available as a single?
Still not a fan of the overbranding but Lotrék's courts and foil wizardry might win me over to get the most premium edition.
Tuck box front is a bit empty for my liking.

In all honesty, not sure that I can answer that right now... but probably not. The "Tempest in a Bottle" edition will only have about 200-250 edition size due to the complexity. That's if we get through enough stretch goals to make it happen. Other editions will still be elaborate but also with limitations.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:18 pm

Bradius wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:51 pm Somehow I missed that top tier. Maybe it was added since I first looked. That tier alone would bring in $41k alone with just 100 backers....I mean, I don't know what you have planned, but one of each and you are talking about 15+ decks and other stuff and for the price of nearly 3 mixed bricks.... or over a pound of silver.

I am afraid I am going to have to pass on that one just like I did on a brick of Jody's Umbra gilded decks. I guess I am going to have to cage the squirrel for awhile.

I have a feeling those will be filled in as we show off what those three extra decks will be. I’m gonna talk about our plans on the prelaunch livestream at 11am. First up is a gilded “treasure” edition. Lotrek’s Dynastinae edition. And the Tempest in a bottle edition. Also will prob have whatever extras we end up producing. The gaff pack, coin, etc.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:03 pm Okay so editions are (FOR UC EYES ONLY! )

Ocean - Tuck is navy blue, teal foil, gold foil. Cards are teal with gold accented on navy field
Dusk - Tuck is Deep Purple/Burgundy, purple foil, copper foil. Cards are burgundy red with gold accents on dark purple field
Midnight - Tuck is black, gun metal silver foil, gold foil. Cards are gun metal COLD FOIL, with GOLD cold foil accents AND BORDERS (as on black Parlour) over black field.
Treasure (Locked stretch for now) - Tuck is gold paper, with gold foil. Cards are Gold cold foil with 2nd gold tone accents on Gold metallic field. GOlD ON GOLD. GILDED!
Dynastinae (locked) LOTREK SPECIAL EDITION - SECRET alternate tuck case. Dark green and gold will feature
Tempest in a Bottle (locked) ultra limited - Black and White alternate tuck case. Deck inside a SEALED glass bottle with wax seal. NUmbered. Only 200. Bottled by impossiblebottle

2 days before the campaign launched, the different editions were specified in detail, including the size of the print run of the most limited one.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:20 pm Now because the new decks are limited there is a bit if a timing issue. People should make the plan to be there on release. In that respect it’s no different then any other deck release. The good news is that if you were lucky enough to be a part if the Complete Tempest you are locked in and need not worry. You are getting your limited items. No need to change anything.

Finally the entire process will be repeated for the dynastinae and/or Black Fridays release. Still figuring this all out. But again Complete tempest reward tier backers need not worry. Everyone else will be vying to change their pledge to newly open limited tiers.

On launch day, premium tier backers are told that they are guaranteed all editions.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:51 pm I can tell you that getting the limited decks will require moving into limited tiers at different price points.

Here is what i think so far they will likely look like (note that numbers might add up to MORE than limited runs in number only -- because they will be adjusted as new tiers open and close--for instance if 100 people move from the quad to the five set the quad sets disappear. They are not filled again. The cut off is 1000, 777, 200 for the treasured, dynastinae, bottle or whatever this ends up being)

Tempest Quad Set (Dusk, Ocean, Midnight, Treassured) Limited to 250
Tempest Five deck set (Dusk, Ocean, Midnight, Treassured, Dynastinae) Limited to 250
Tempest Six deck set (dusk, ocean, midnight, treassured, dyanastinae, bottle) Limited to 50
Tempest Brick + treasured edition (Limited to 200)
Tempest Brick + Treasured + Dynastinae (Limited to 200)
Tempest Brick + Treasured + Dynastinae + Bottle (limited to 50)

If at the end of the campaign any of the three limited decks remain unsold we will sell them 1 to a backer through backerkit.

The other option of course is simply opening up more premium tiers if there's enough demand. Those numbers would obviously cut into the numbers above.

This is where I suppose some people could have got their hopes up that they might be able to "add-on" the more limited editions without being on the higher tiers of pledge levels. But it's never stated that they will, all of it was stated as still being worked out at that point.

Ragzzz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:48 am I had to pull out of this project - despite having the plenty of income to purchase top tier

However- One thing I avoid in collecting things in the past (obsessive nature) is the constant roll out of another edition of such and such thing...

I really don’t need a huge amount of spare decks in my collection because I’m not going through the effort of trying to sell them

I mean...what ever happened to the good old Standard Ed & Ltd Edition only projects

Now there’s a shadow edition, light edition, moon edition, sun, wind, snow, chicken, bacon, vegan, gluten-free edition being released on most dang KS projects

Happened with comic books

Happened with action figure collectibles

Now playing cards

It’s frankly ridiculous

Totally agree with that statement. A couple of versions is more than enough, some projects get needlessly excessive with all the versions. It gets too a point where it stretches backers funds too far for one project.

jerichoholic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:54 pm

Ragzzz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:48 am I had to pull out of this project - despite having the plenty of income to purchase top tier

However- One thing I avoid in collecting things in the past (obsessive nature) is the constant roll out of another edition of such and such thing...

I really don’t need a huge amount of spare decks in my collection because I’m not going through the effort of trying to sell them

I mean...what ever happened to the good old Standard Ed & Ltd Edition only projects

Now there’s a shadow edition, light edition, moon edition, sun, wind, snow, chicken, bacon, vegan, gluten-free edition being released on most dang KS projects

Happened with comic books

Happened with action figure collectibles

Now playing cards

It’s frankly ridiculous

Totally agree with that statement. A couple of versions is more than enough, some projects get needlessly excessive with all the versions. It gets too a point where it stretches backers funds too far for one project.

I'm happy with multiple versions. Nobody is stretching your funds. Get this, you can buy 1-2 versions and call it a day! That's the beauty of Kickstarter. There are tiers for collectors who want a few simple decks, and there are tiers with more expensive decks for collectors who want to splurge and get super rare and fancy decks.

bdawg923 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:00 pm

jerichoholic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:54 pm

Ragzzz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:48 am I had to pull out of this project - despite having the plenty of income to purchase top tier

However- One thing I avoid in collecting things in the past (obsessive nature) is the constant roll out of another edition of such and such thing...

I really don’t need a huge amount of spare decks in my collection because I’m not going through the effort of trying to sell them

I mean...what ever happened to the good old Standard Ed & Ltd Edition only projects

Now there’s a shadow edition, light edition, moon edition, sun, wind, snow, chicken, bacon, vegan, gluten-free edition being released on most dang KS projects

Happened with comic books

Happened with action figure collectibles

Now playing cards

It’s frankly ridiculous

Totally agree with that statement. A couple of versions is more than enough, some projects get needlessly excessive with all the versions. It gets too a point where it stretches backers funds too far for one project.

I'm happy with multiple versions. Nobody is stretching your funds. Get this, you can buy 1-2 versions and call it a day! That's the beauty of Kickstarter. There are tiers for collectors who want a few simple decks, and there are tiers with more expensive decks for collectors who want to splurge and get super rare and fancy decks.

I agree but many collectors like to be able to get the whole set not just the standard editions. I've never been a fan of the whole buy a brick, or two, and get a super limited edition deck. It always comes across as creators simply trying to upsell standard decks. Sure give those backers a free bonus but allow others the opportunity to get the deck. And I understand there's only 200 of the Prism but nobody is ever forced to produce such limited quantities especially if they know there will be demand for it.

Ah, this reminds me of the good old days when everyone called Jackson R. “Jack$on” and repeatedly said all he cared about was money. Growing pains of being successful.

My hope, Omar, is that you can sort through the vitriol and find the legitimate criticisms that will help you improve your offerings and communication moving forward.

Lotrek wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:46 am Apart from the greed and appetite for backers' blood, another reason for having Prism and Dynastinae editions grouped with other decks is the fact that it's the only way to avoid overselling. Running a campaign with 300 backers, it's easier to do it manually and tell people "Stop, it's sold out" but with 1K + things get much much more complicated. If KS allowed backers to select multiple tiers, we wouldn't be discussing now...

I don’t pretend to understand the business strategies around producing plating cards - especially exclusives

For me a producer can conduct their business how they see fit as they know what’s best

I’m just not a fan of this particular process on this particular project

Parlour was the campaign that I bought my first brick from and I love the series

Even if I don’t agree with a lot of the opinions on here I appreciate them. I make a note of the things I want to improve for next time. If unfortunate because had I done this the way I probably should have I wouldn’t have been able to share any work-in-progress details with this forum and community and so many choices were colored and influenced by constructive comments made here. But an equal amount of confusion seems to have also been sowed. I’ve no one to blame for that but myself.

Years ago when Jackson and I would talk regarding his UC departure I never really understood. “But so many people love you over there!” But he found that the toxicity levels were too much to make this a comfortable place to come and talk about his projects. I know he comes around every once and a while but he’s been more inaccessible generally than he was before. I would like not to find my self in the same position.

Ultimately I believe there is a very vocal but perhaps small contingent of dissatisfied backers or former backers. The campaign has lost 20-30 backers since my announcement on Friday of tomorrow’s impeding tier release. However we have more backers today total than we did on Friday. And my hope is that once the dust settles Monday’s releases will be a success. If they are not we will learn the necessary lessons and even if they are I promise you this will never go down the same way again.

I don’t think I should have to defend the new editons. The tuck cases for these are very different. In fact I wish they had been completed ahead of time and that we had been able to show them off. Because I think these decks are not just recolors. The difference between a Lotrek deck and a mass produced deck perhaps cannot be explained to anyone who hasn’t held one of Alex’s masterpieces in their hands. I’ve reas some people feeling like they can’t justify the value given in the top tier. The aftermarket will gauge this I suppose. I have confidence the prism edition will likely only go up in value at the very least.

vasta41 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:38 am

Ice_Panda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:55 pm
I also think if you are upset with the way stuff is handled you can easily say that in a few lines of one post. at this point these two just look like 14 year olds who just got dumped and are WAY bitter.

I have expressed my opinion in a few lines on one post. So I assume (hope) you're not talking about me. And for the record I also stated that the "one-of-each" tier that I currently have (which is actually just a measly little three deck tier now) is all I want. So I really don't even have a horse in this "why do I have to spend more money to get exclusive decks or whatever this is all about" race.

sorry I should have been more clear in my post. (I thought about that after I read it) When I said these two, I wasn't talking about you at all. I only quoted you for the first part about being up front with the versions. I shouldn't have talked about Azahn and Jeri(whatever is screen name is) while quoting you. I can see how that looks like I was coming after ya, but that wasn't my intention. I just respectfully disagreed with the point about the creators launching everything at once.

bdawg923 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:00 pm

jerichoholic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:54 pm

Ragzzz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:48 am I had to pull out of this project - despite having the plenty of income to purchase top tier

However- One thing I avoid in collecting things in the past (obsessive nature) is the constant roll out of another edition of such and such thing...

I really don’t need a huge amount of spare decks in my collection because I’m not going through the effort of trying to sell them

I mean...what ever happened to the good old Standard Ed & Ltd Edition only projects

Now there’s a shadow edition, light edition, moon edition, sun, wind, snow, chicken, bacon, vegan, gluten-free edition being released on most dang KS projects

Happened with comic books

Happened with action figure collectibles

Now playing cards

It’s frankly ridiculous

Totally agree with that statement. A couple of versions is more than enough, some projects get needlessly excessive with all the versions. It gets too a point where it stretches backers funds too far for one project.

I'm happy with multiple versions. Nobody is stretching your funds. Get this, you can buy 1-2 versions and call it a day! That's the beauty of Kickstarter. There are tiers for collectors who want a few simple decks, and there are tiers with more expensive decks for collectors who want to splurge and get super rare and fancy decks.

I totally agree with this statement. Multiple versions is more than enough, I like when some projects have needlessly excessive versions. It gets to the point where it stretches my funds and gives me more value on the project

Excellent views, opinions, statements etc. Really liked Lotrek's wisdom about difference between "need" and "want" which I have heard before and aptly applies to me at least. I love the midnight edition, dusk edition (the purple color is beautiful), dynastinae, and prism. I need (and kinda want) midnight and dusk 100%, I can stretch my wallet a bit for the "Tempest Five deck set (Dusk, Ocean, Midnight, Treassured, Dynastinae) ", but.... do I need that tier just for (at least) dynastine? Not really. I fell really happy with the midnight and dusk edition.

Plus - save funds for the other (I need type of decks) black friday playing card sales (KWP, BlackInk, Stockholm for the rising spades, balck17 (even though he does not do BF sales) =)

Has anyone seen the deck highlight on Kier Gomes' YouTube channel?

Man those standard decks look really sweet. I'm certain all will be happy when they get them in hand even if they didn't go for the expensive ones.

GandalfTheWhite wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:15 pm Excellent views, opinions, statements etc. Really liked Lotrek's wisdom about difference between "need" and "want" which I have heard before and aptly applies to me at least. I love the midnight edition, dusk edition (the purple color is beautiful), dynastinae, and prism. I need (and kinda want) midnight and dusk 100%, I can stretch my wallet a bit for the "Tempest Five deck set (Dusk, Ocean, Midnight, Treassured, Dynastinae) ", but.... do I need that tier just for (at least) dynastine? Not really. I fell really happy with the midnight and dusk edition.

Plus - save funds for the other (I need type of decks) black friday playing card sales (KWP, BlackInk, Stockholm for the rising spades, balck17 (even though he does not do BF sales) =)

With that token does anyone here actually really "need" any of those decks. Most people here just "want" them. So it's kind of a moot point.

I'll ask again: is there anyone in here pledging only the basic decks that isn't planning on upgrading come Monday? Would love to work something out.

Lotrek just added to the confusion a bit with his e-mail

The decks will become available as add-ons to existing pledges which means that if you aren't a backer yet you can only get them combined with the standard decks of the campaign, selecting one of the new tiers that will open tomorrow.

masagin303 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:33 pm Lotrek just added to the confusion a bit with his e-mail

The decks will become available as add-ons to existing pledges which means that if you aren't a backer yet you can only get them combined with the standard decks of the campaign, selecting one of the new tiers that will open tomorrow.

I'm good at it...
What do you mean though?

Lotrek wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:54 pm I'm good at it...
What do you mean though?

Well those decks won't be available as add-ons but as a part of complete tiers, right? There's some common understanding of what Kickstarter add-ons are and this is not it.

Chalk it up to language barrier. The tiers will be unfurled as they were announced.

Here’s an updated render of the Dynastinae tucks

jerichoholic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:45 pm

GandalfTheWhite wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:15 pm Excellent views, opinions, statements etc. Really liked Lotrek's wisdom about difference between "need" and "want" which I have heard before and aptly applies to me at least. I love the midnight edition, dusk edition (the purple color is beautiful), dynastinae, and prism. I need (and kinda want) midnight and dusk 100%, I can stretch my wallet a bit for the "Tempest Five deck set (Dusk, Ocean, Midnight, Treassured, Dynastinae) ", but.... do I need that tier just for (at least) dynastine? Not really. I fell really happy with the midnight and dusk edition.

Plus - save funds for the other (I need type of decks) black friday playing card sales (KWP, BlackInk, Stockholm for the rising spades, balck17 (even though he does not do BF sales) =)

With that token does anyone here actually really "need" any of those decks. Most people here just "want" them. So it's kind of a moot point.

Well, in my case -- I needed the midnight and dusk edition (whatever reason you'd want to assume. Maybe the FOMO in me, or maybe when I watch your review on YT, I don't get go "darn.. I could have backed and satisfied my need".) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Think it is a classic case of cognitive overload in terms of comms, options & asking the backers to change pledges or select a tier. Any new action tends to act as a friction point. Fear of missing out & exclusivity is also resulting into some anguish. We've seen project creators coming up with multiple versions of a deck concept (e.g. Kevin Yu's Luna Moon etc.) but no one has asked them why these many decks are being done based on the same tuck design (and we know they still sell because of that special tuckbox). Even though TGW has tried to clarify multiple times but considering the number of backers, it will always be a challenge to bring each backer on the same page & have alignment. Given the number of enquiries and questions being asked by backers, I think one other collaborator just focusing on your comments section and updates, might help you with sharing the load.

Hope TGW/Lotrek takes some learnings out of this, and I am sure they would have already.

On the matter of value, Lotrek has always provided great value, and TGW/Omar brings additional value on the table making the whole multiply manifold. Can easily be seen in terms of backer numbers and funding reached.

PS: Lotrek - Your comment (kickstarter comments section) made yesterday cracked me up. Good on you having fun.
TGW - If you do a collab with Kevin Yu/Card Mafia in future while utilizing his special tuck design, I think it will knock every other project out of the park

This has been a fantastic learning experience. For one thing my next campaign will be organized a bit differently. Additionally I will have all of the finished prototypes well in advance. Curious to see how noon rolls around.

Ice_Panda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:17 pm

PiazzaDelivery wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:57 pm Serious question: Is anyone in here already locked into a tier with the Treasured and NOT planning on upgrading come Monday?

I'm moving up to a Dynastinae tier and I want a second one. If the situation above describes you, please hit me up, would love to work something out.

Just create a second KS account. Thats what I did. I need two prism/dynastinae decks

Thanks for the advice, that's what I ended up doing. Going to have an extra Ocean, Dusk, Midninght and Treasured, but worth for that second Dynastinae.

Manage to score your 2 Prisms?

My wallet is giving me the side-eye right now. But I still upped my pledge. That Dynastinae.... **chef kissing fingers motion**

Was going to get the five pack, but at just $37 extra for another set of the standards I saw no reason not to go for the half-brick+1+1.

Any chance of that custom brick box becoming an add-on? Perhaps on backerkit? Or just make a half-brick box too

Have there been pictures/renders of that yet btw?

MagikFingerz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:01 pm Was going to get the five pack, but at just $37 extra for another set of the standards I saw no reason not to go for the half-brick+1+1.

Any chance of that custom brick box becoming an add-on? Perhaps on backerkit? Or just make a half-brick box too

Have there been pictures/renders of that yet btw?

No pictures yet. It’s coming. Trying to know one thing out at a time. I’ve got Lotrek working fingers to the nubs

PiazzaDelivery wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:25 pm

Ice_Panda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:17 pm

PiazzaDelivery wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:57 pm Serious question: Is anyone in here already locked into a tier with the Treasured and NOT planning on upgrading come Monday?

I'm moving up to a Dynastinae tier and I want a second one. If the situation above describes you, please hit me up, would love to work something out.

Just create a second KS account. Thats what I did. I need two prism/dynastinae decks

Thanks for the advice, that's what I ended up doing. Going to have an extra Ocean, Dusk, Midninght and Treasured, but worth for that second Dynastinae.

Manage to score your 2 Prisms?

yep, Im in for two premier tiers one reg and the lite. Worth it for me personally super happy I'll get two of each of those (prism/dynastinae)

Ice_Panda wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:14 pm yep, Im in for two premier tiers one reg and the lite. Worth it for me personally super happy I'll get two of each of those (prism/dynastinae)

Yeah me too! I was able to snatch the last reg slot on Saturday using my main, then I snagged the last lite slot this afternoon using my work email I really want to be able to appreciate the cards on the Prism deck and as a rule, I don’t open decks unless I have two of them.

I am similar want to open one and keep one

I got my Premium Lite, now I'm alright. No more stress, now I can rest.