UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Justin O. wrote:I'm frustrated to hear these are available through retailers before I have received my reward as a backer. I don't mind waiting ridiculous time-frames for the projects I back on kickstarter *cough*Tokaido*cough* but I would like to have my reward before someone that wasn't a part of the project who can buy one off JP etc... Kinda sucks...

Cbkimble wrote:I do think it's messed up but if that's how he's collecting the funds to ship the rest of the packages, it's better than having to pay for shipping again. Still piss poor fund management.

If this is the case, that is wrong. If Erik ran out of money to ship the cards, he should get a loan, ship the cards and pay back the bank in monthly installments and fund the loan repayment with card sales. Simple. Kickstarter gave him the money from us a long time ago. This is information, if true, should have been communicated directly and a long time before. If it isn't the case, again, more communication is necessary.

Kickstarter backers should be at the front of the line, not behind aftermarket shoppers. 100% disappointing.

TGunitedcardists wrote:Kickstarter backers should be at the front of the line, not behind aftermarket shoppers. 100% disappointing.

Amen!

I'm not defending Erik by any means, and no on will ever mistake me for Bruno. But we don't know for sure the reason for this horrific delay is because Erik ran out of funds and can't pay for shipping costs (although its easy to come to that conclusion given what has transpired), at least that is not among his excuses for this messed up situation. For now, he's placing the blame squarely on this allegedly incompetent fulfillment center (a convenient scapegoat for him).

Also, while it's frustrating to see retailers such as JP and Cartes Magie selling Sybil decks to the general public (which allows non-supporters to get Sybil decks before the majority of the backers of his KS campaign), that doesn't necessarily mean that Erik's liquidating excess stock to retailers to get some cash, presumably to complete fulfillment. It could just be that JP and Cartes Magie were backers as well and were one of the very few backers that got their orders from that first (and only, so far) tiny shipment of orders that have been fulfilled so far. There's no law that says retailers who were also backers have to wait until fulfillment for the entire campaign must be complete first before they start retailing their decks.

I'm sure the Sybil campaign is not a scam by Erik, I'll probably eventually get my decks. I just don't have much confidence it will be anytime soon. If Erik ever gets around to posting another update, it will probably be to tell us fulfillment will be even further delayed due to the fact that this has dragged on into the holidays. I sincerely hope he will prove me wrong, but I've long since stopped holding my breath for anything related to Erik.

I think bottom line is the lack of communication at THIS point is ridiculous and is what is leading to all this speculation. Dude needs to grow a pair and just update us along the way. Honestly, i'd pay for shipping again if he threw in another deck or two. I just don't understand why some people got theirs and some didn't. It's way over getting old at this point and I would never support this guy again. Also, why wouldn't you use a major distribution center with a campaign like this? Instead he used one that wasn't even remotely prepared or ready for something of this nature. Why not use Art of Play, or Kings wild, or gamblers, etc. You might not take as much home, but if you planned on doing another campaign at least you would know you would have supporters. Pretty hard to bounce back from this. Everyone has every right to be pissed.

Well the retailers are buying in bulk. As a retailer doesn't that mean he gives them priority?
Not to mention he prioritized everyone that could promote his cards at least those who were on his good side.

On a side note I'd like to know if Bruno got his cause he says so many positive incomprehensible things about this.

The argument about the dealers getting them first is an old one.
I can remember the old Mike weighing in pretty heavy on the side of the dealers (go figure).

I personally don't mind seeing decks for sale that I haven't received yet.
The Caveat to this is that I don't mind seeing it if I am pretty certain I am going to get my decks.

In instances like this where I don't think it is likely I will receive anything I would like the creator to be more up front with the fact or be so out there with stories and delays and "I'm not sure if" that I can be certain he won't.

Right now I doubt I will get anything. I want to know that while the sellers are still selling the cards at reasonable prices or at all.I have a fear of waiting for someone like this to not fulfill and seeing the retailers boost their prices and the ebay sails go through the roof and then when I am certain I am not getting the decks I pledged for , the prices being too high on the deck for me to purchase it.

Ridiculous but so is this campaign

I can completely understand that backers should be first and it's possible he decided to ship out some of the larger KS orders first. Some smaller orders may have been shipped, but the majority seems to be larger orders. Erik has made his bed and now he has to sleep on a bed of thorns. He's burnt any chance of doing another deck in the future, no matter how beautiful they are.

Well, I hope it's not true that I have decks & uncuts so I would vocally defend Erik. The post campaign process has been a mess! He could have & should have done better.

I saw them already available on eBay when I got mine, and put a dozen pairs of Sybil Gold and Platinum matched presentation sets available at about half the previous price. Am I taking advantage of the fact that I know that you can't get them yet? Yes, I am. Do I feel bad doing so? No, I don't. Am I ticked if it makes me look bad? Of course I am, but I am not going to change things.

If it's true that it took so long because he had to match up sets with same serial and then handled complex orders first I totally understand. However, now that they have been sent out shouldn't it be super simple and fast to get all the others out? Tick tock...

Mike Ratledge wrote:Well, I hope it's not true that I have decks & uncuts so I would vocally defend Erik. The post campaign process has been a mess! He could have & should have done better.

Mike I have the feeling that you thought I meant you when I mentioned "The Old Mike"

I was speaking of the Mike that used to own this site and BM Pokerworld.
I honestly can't remember his last name.

My post has nothing to do with you.
You (for the most part ) are not a reseller.
Selling your personal decks on ebay to make a buck wasn't the point of my post. It was about people running campaigns where they send out to resellers and not to the majority of the backers, and not knowing if you should buy from them when prices are reasonable or to try and wait for your decks.

I apologize if you took offense and thought I was speaking of you.

UtterFool wrote:I was speaking of the Mike that used to own this site and BM Pokerworld.
I honestly can't remember his last name.

Mike Ferante, I believe. (aka MikeF/BMPokerWorld).

MikeF did seriously defend resellers getting decks early, presumably as it helped his business. Thus became part of the uneasy operation of this forum with it's embedded conflicts of interest.

With the two previous owners of UC - Russell Kercheval and Mike Ferante - we can now appreciate the benevolent management of (new) Mike.

(On Topic; Mana v3 decks still MIA, but nothing new there. Here's hoping for January 2016 )

I think the big problem right now is that we do not know what is next. The comments from people saying that they will not back another one of his projects may be a little more aggressive than needed right now but may be seen as their way of trying to get the cards. Yes it sucks how long the decks have taken to ship and the little communication. It seems that Erik is trying to make corrections with BUSKERS. It will be interesting to see what happens with both of these projects and what one will arrive first.

tylergo wrote:The comments from people saying that they will not back another one of his projects may be a little more aggressive than needed right now but may be seen as their way of trying to get the cards.

I disagree with you 100%. I am one of those people that have said I will not back another one of his projects and it is not a threat to receive my cards. It's more of a "fool me once..." type of scenario. Two of his projects in a row are disgustingly past due so what reason would I have to take another chance on him? Talk is cheap... Not to mention that if I really did want another one of his decks, not only would I just buy it later from a 3rd party retailer but they'd also have them first anyway!

I've said it once and I'll say it again: I JUST WANT MY GODDAMN CARDS!!

vasta41 wrote:

tylergo wrote:The comments from people saying that they will not back another one of his projects may be a little more aggressive than needed right now but may be seen as their way of trying to get the cards.

I disagree with you 100%. I am one of those people that have said I will not back another one of his projects and it is not a threat to receive my cards. It's more of a "fool me once..." type of scenario. Two of his projects in a row are disgustingly past due so what reason would I have to take another chance on him? Talk is cheap... Not to mention that if I really did want another one of his decks, not only would I just buy it later from a 3rd party retailer but they'd also have them first anyway!

I've said it once and I'll say it again: I JUST WANT MY GODDAMN CARDS!!

+1

I hope Erik got money for Christmas so he can ship my GODDAMN CARDS.

Me too. The whole thing is a joke.
Still waiting. To be totally honest I've virtually written off any hope of getting these. Karma is a bitch. Im a strong believer in it. Do good things and good things happen. Do bad things...
It's. It really the fact that they haven't been delivered to backers yet but more the fact that there has been little explanation or corispondance throughout.
Merry Christmas!!

Erik has laid the blame for the delays squarely on his fulfillment company. We really have no way to verify whether this is the actual reason or not. So fine, it is what it is. On his Buskers campaign, he posted an update back on December 4 that he has finalized arrangements with a different fulfillment company to ship out the Buskers decks because the one fulfilling Sybil is so slow.

So why haven't the Buskers started shipping out by now? Different fulfillment company, simpler campaign with fewer decks, and only 423 orders. What can possibly be the excuse now? Surely we should have received tracking notices at least. If the fulfillment center was truly the problem, and he corrected that problem with Buskers, then at least the Buskers decks should be going out and being fulfilled by now, shouldn't they? In this instance, 2 + 2 does not seem to be adding up to 4.

I think vasta41 sums it up most eloquently:

vasta41 wrote:I've said it once and I'll say it again: I JUST WANT MY GODDAMN CARDS!!

I don't care how SLOW a fulfillment company is, no one is this SLOW and they don't pick and choose who to ship to. They definitely don't EVER ship biggest packages first.

I saw that they were for sale on Vanishing Inc. last night and wasn't too happy. I don't understand what the hell is going on. Does this dude go to conventions? I'd love to have a chat.

BUMP!

Waiting sucks. Silence sucks.

TGunitedcardists wrote:Waiting sucks. Silence sucks.

We've been waiting a freaking long time, but even then it's the silence that's the killer.

I keep coming back to thinking that Erik is (as far as I have been able to tell via previous dealings and others impressions) a good, honorable, guy. The problem I have is then I think, so seemed Russell Kercheval...

If Erik posted an update apologising and admitting he'd run out of funds (which I'm sure many of us are assuming), I could handle it - and might patiently wait longer or consider options of putting in some more money. We were getting apologies with seemingly little changing, but now even that seems a distant memory - it's just silence.

It's sad to say - especially with all the sunk costs on this project - but I'm starting to give up hope. The longer we have Erik incommunicado, the more this smells like dead fish to me.

At this point I am willing to pay for USPS Priority Mail shipping costs excluding any fulfillment fees.

Talisman wrote:At this point I am willing to pay for USPS Priority Mail shipping costs excluding any fulfillment fees.

I'm not. Based on the prices we paid for these decks, I'm pretty sure he had more than enough funds. If he is short funds, then he must have misspent the money on other things.

So when Erik sent out his first batch of decks, about 50 orders, we heard from a few reviewers getting their decks, and a few members here at UC posted they got their orders, and we see a few retailers selling these decks now. Then in his next update (way back on December 4) he said his fulfillment company "brought in a developer to help streamline their processing" just for his orders and that he's working on sending out his next batch of orders that's "much bigger than the first" and that he is "hoping their processing will be improved and quicker" (I am quoting Erik here, not making anything up).

If this second batch was that much bigger than the first, why haven't we heard or seen more people getting their orders? Surely at least some backers would post in the comment section of his KS page that they finally got their orders, or UC members posting here that they got their decks at last. It just defies logic.

According to Erik's November 15 update, his fulfillment company has had these decks since September 15, that makes it 4 months ago, or 120 days ago. That means they could have shipped out just 5.5 orders per day and they would be done by now. That's less than 6 packages a day! What kind of fulfillment company fails to handle such a low rate per day? You can only go on blaming your fulfillment company for only so long, but at some point people are going to realize even if Erik got a bad fulfillment company, no one can be this bad and this incompetent for this long.

Cbkimble wrote:I don't care how SLOW a fulfillment company is, no one is this SLOW and they don't pick and choose who to ship to. They definitely don't EVER ship biggest packages first.

Not trying to make excuses, but it is what they try to do, get the big easy orders out first, but the big complicated ones indeed always wait for last, almost always. (if you ordered a brick or two, you are likely amongst the first. If you ordered two bricks, an uncut a coin, a t-shirt and a grab ass, you are likely last in line) Ten or twelve simple, large packages could get you to 10% complete.

I got my pair of Buskers over the holidays, but I only ordered one of each. I wish I knew more, but Erik has been quiet with me, as well. I know that he is going through H with his son recently in the hospital for surgery, but at this point, I wish I knew more.

Mike Ratledge wrote: Not trying to make excuses, but it is what they try to do, get the big easy orders out first, but the big complicated ones indeed always wait for last, almost always. (if you ordered a brick or two, you are likely amongst the first. If you ordered two bricks, an uncut a coin, a t-shirt and a grab ass, you are likely last in line) Ten or twelve simple, large packages could get you to 10% complete.

I got my pair of Buskers over the holidays, but I only ordered one of each. I wish I knew more, but Erik has been quiet with me, as well. I know that he is going through H with his son recently in the hospital for surgery, but at this point, I wish I knew more.

It really sucks that even the resellers got these decks before the backer. I had zero add-ons (which would be an easy order) and still haven't seen anything.

Mike Ratledge wrote:

Cbkimble wrote:I don't care how SLOW a fulfillment company is, no one is this SLOW and they don't pick and choose who to ship to. They definitely don't EVER ship biggest packages first.

Not trying to make excuses, but it is what they try to do, get the big easy orders out first, but the big complicated ones indeed always wait for last, almost always. (if you ordered a brick or two, you are likely amongst the first. If you ordered two bricks, an uncut a coin, a t-shirt and a grab ass, you are likely last in line) Ten or twelve simple, large packages could get you to 10% complete.

I got my pair of Buskers over the holidays, but I only ordered one of each. I wish I knew more, but Erik has been quiet with me, as well. I know that he is going through H with his son recently in the hospital for surgery, but at this point, I wish I knew more.

How about just friggin 2 decks and still nothing.. I am so fed up of funding decks 2 years before i get them. I am so done with all this shit... yes I said shit

Mike Ratledge wrote:Not trying to make excuses, but it is what they try to do, get the big easy orders out first...

"First"? You say FIRST!? How about ONLY! That is the problem I have with this right now. Look, s#!t happens- delays are annoying but the effing decks are finally finished now and so far the only decks to go out are a small handful, in comparison. What the FU@K is taking so long with the others!? I feel like chopped liver seeing the decks I pledged my HARD-EARNED money for being sold all over the web for MONTHS without having my own. Everyday I don't have these is like a slap in the face... as if Erik is telling me, "sucks to be you, Paul! Hahahahha " Once again,

I JUST WANT MY GODDAMN CARDS!!

What I don't understand is why he decided to ship buskers before finishing this one. Does he really think this will convince us that it really is all the fufillment company's fault?