UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Eoghann wrote:It's absolutely an honest mistake. Shit happens. I can relate, I work in a sign company and we work for huge corporations like Yankees and Mets who swamp us with jobs. We have the design team and production team required to proofread all jobs, yet sometimes catch the error after everything has been installed or the customer points it out. Whoops.

Having brokered much printing over my career I can attest that nothing tastes worse to the palate than eating bad printing.

I'll keep mine, no refund necessary. The deck looks killer and there is a bit of uniqueness to the errors, not that I want all my decks that way.

Looks like there will be a possible reprint. It doesn't make the first version any less rare (since there are still 2500 of them), but I would like the error one only because it's v1 and would be a unique one to add to my collection. I don't care about the potential value; I usually buy decks just for myself with no intention for resale (though I certainly don't fault those who do buy them for resale). I didn't pledge for the Moriarty decks but I had intended to complete my collection eventually by purchasing the rest on Jackson's site, so I hope the error deck will be up for sale.

I know it was an honest mistake, but its a huge one! The different font on the Ace of Spades is no big deal, most decks make the AoS different and more elaborate anyway, but mis-identifying the characters on the banners is pretty major. Does this mean there are two cards that say Moriarty in the same deck? At the end of the day, I'm not such a hard-core Holmes fan to be bothered enough about it to cancel my pledge, though.

In the collecting hobby, misprints and errors generally could make the item more valuable (such as coins, stamps, etc..), but this is not the case in the playing card collecting as of yet (unless you count the fabricated artificial "rareness" of the Monarchs "misprint" from T11 - and I don't count it), so I don't anticipate this error to be significantly any more valuable, even if a corrected second edition is printed, due to there being 2000+ of these error decks out there, and that's a big number.

I hope that he doesn't reprint them, frankly. I am just fine with it like they are. Heck, if he had not pointed it out, I would not know it, ever.

The facts are it's an honest mistake, he offered to let people "get out of jail free" (sorry, awful analogy) and that's it. If it was something that made them useless I would understand some of the comments, but it's still just a very few vocal people making all the noise.

If he reprints them he's only bowing to pressure from a select few, not even a handful. He didn't find it, bury it and wait for someone to scream. He was 100% up front about it, honest to a fault as always and he still catches hell from that select few...

Agree Mike! By offering refunds anyone who feels "damaged" can get their money back plain and simple. From a legal and customer service standpoint that's all you can ask. I see no need for a reprint.

How about someone who planned to give these as gifts to Sherlock fans. "These are fantastic decks! Don't read the names cause they're screwed up..."

And now imagine you're the estate of Conan Doyle and you give a five year exclusive to a company that didn't get the names right ... would you want to resell the Watson decks in museum gift shops?

I'm not at all surprised that Jackson may have reversed himself upon further review.

The Estate is not selling any of my decks. The only place you will be able to buy them is on my website. Also the cards went through an entire proofing process with the Conan Doyle Estate and their legal team so the mistakes made it past a lot of eyeballs.

And what did I "reverse" myself on? I'm not sure what you are referring too.

Ok, so I did say may have, and I've proven that reading is not my strong suit. But I thought that you made a reference to a Holmes exhibition during the Sherlock campaign -- where the decks may be offered for sale? I can't find it now on KS . but there's this from Mike on UC, so I'm not totally crazy:

"Correct... All three decks are limited in that they will never be reprinted as I recall, but specific maximum quantities were "what he needs", and I'm sure he needs a bunch for the traveling exhibition gig. "

I've gone to many traveling exhibitions in various museums, so I assumed that this was the case -- and that there would be decks available in the shop. Guess I got that wrong.

As far as the reprint, you stated on KS:

"I wish I would have caught the mistake before printing but it was already to late. And a complete reprint would cost around $15,000 including new seals, plates and finishing. The reprint cost is not financially possible for me at this time, but offering refunds, I feel is the fair resolution if you want it."

And then today:

"Possible Moriarty Edition Reprint

I have already been suggested, by a hand full of backers, to possibly do a small followup Kickstarter specifically for the reprint of the Moriarty Edition. If I do this it would be a short 15 day project most likely soon after the close of my Independence project. Please comment below if this is something you would be interested in backing."

So I'm interpreting that as a bit of a reversal, one that I applauded in the comments to your update.

My apologies if you took offense to any of that. Not my intention.

The quote from me is about several months old now, and at the time that was the plan. From what I understand there either isn't going to be any "traveling exhibition gig" or if there is from what he says Jackson isn't planning to go.

There is a traveling exhibition but they failed to express interest before I made the production order so I didn't print extra decks to offer to them.

As for the "reversal" I can totally see what you mean. But I meant that I couldn't PERSONALLY pay for a reprint at this time and the subsequent update about the possible reprint had to do with a new Kickstater. Enough people have PMd me about doing a new reprint KS that it maid sense to get an official response from people via an update.

sorry for the confusion.

Agree Mike! By offering refunds anyone who feels "damaged" can get their money back plain and simple. From a legal and customer service standpoint that's all you can ask. I see no need for a reprint.

agreed with all of the designers who completely bail on projects - isn't it refreshing to find a creator who is honest, a straight shooter and who takes the brunt of the problem on himself?

If anyone feels sleighed they can get a refund and "pretend" that deck hasn't been released yet - and then use their money towards the new improved "M" deck when it is released.

or....

They can hold on to the misprint deck - sell it - and then use the money to buy 2 "M" decks when the new KS is released.

WIN WIN

#Iseenodownside

Magic_Orthodoxy wrote:

Agree Mike! By offering refunds anyone who feels "damaged" can get their money back plain and simple. From a legal and customer service standpoint that's all you can ask. I see no need for a reprint.

agreed with all of the designers who completely bail on projects - isn't it refreshing to find a creator who is honest, a straight shooter and who takes the brunt of the problem on himself?

If anyone feels sleighed they can get a refund and "pretend" that deck hasn't been released yet - and then use their money towards the new improved "M" deck when it is released.

or....

They can hold on to the misprint deck - sell it - and then use the money to buy 2 "M" decks when the new KS is released.

WIN WIN

#Iseenodownside

David thats a very one sided and simplistic view of the error.

1. I honestly dont think we will see a reprint, there have been so far, 61 comments on the update (ok lets add 50 to that number from the other update). A hundred or two hundred people wont fund the project, everyone knows that. Jackson might try, but its not likely to succeed. So far i have not seen anyone post that they would like a refund, im sure there are but the numbers are not likely to be big.

2. Honestly, what makes you think this "error" will allow you to buy 2 decks of the new "M" deck if its even funded, if this reprint is indeed funded (well people who missed out on the first time will get a second shot at it), there will be twice the amount of "M" decks out there error or no error. And the "M" decks are not the most popular deck in the series, perhaps theres a chance if this was bakerstreet or hounds, with the "M" deck not likely at all. A reprint will simply make all the "M" decks go down in value, simple economics, the two decks are not so different that people make a stark distinction.

3. Some people will see this deck as more valuable due to the error, and some will see it as less valuable, i belong to the latter with others im sure. An error is an error, like others have said I dont really want others to point out that my deck has the wrong names on the cards. Im sure nobody can dispute that having the wrong names is a bad thing. The deck isnt more rare because there an error (not like currency misprints), it simply is an error.

#Iseenoupside (ok we got an extra sticker because of it, but yea..)

No upside for us, nor for jackson (im sure this is giving him a headache)

I doubt there will be a complete reprint of the series in the next couple of years, Jackson simply has too many awesome projects in the pipeline to revisit this.

JacksonRobinson wrote:There is a traveling exhibition but they failed to express interest before I made the production order so I didn't print extra decks to offer to them.

As for the "reversal" I can totally see what you mean. But I meant that I couldn't PERSONALLY pay for a reprint at this time and the subsequent update about the possible reprint had to do with a new Kickstater. Enough people have PMd me about doing a new reprint KS that it maid sense to get an official response from people via an update.

sorry for the confusion.

Ah, too bad. I think you would have sold a ton of them.
G'luck with the next KS -- I hope the timing works out so that decks get delivered before Christmas.
I'll be in for a half-brick.

When people are involved, confusion usually follows!

/bama

Magic_Orthodoxy wrote:agreed with all of the designers who completely bail on projects - isn't it refreshing to find a creator who is honest, a straight shooter and who takes the brunt of the problem on himself?

This!

Sure there's a screw-up in the Moriarty deck (well... actually three), but the way Jackson has handled it is a credit to him. Compare this to some of the other card producers (*cough* Altruism *cough*).

Gareth wrote:

Magic_Orthodoxy wrote:agreed with all of the designers who completely bail on projects - isn't it refreshing to find a creator who is honest, a straight shooter and who takes the brunt of the problem on himself?

This!

Sure there's a screw-up in the Moriarty deck (well... actually three), but the way Jackson has handled it is a credit to him. Compare this to some of the other card producers (*cough* Altruism *cough*).

Altruism gave each buyer the correct Queen in a little envelope, so in effect you got 1 additional queen for free. I had no problem with that. If they had simply sold it as is, doubles of 1 queen and missing another, that would have been a worthless deck for actual use.

samurai007 wrote:

Gareth wrote:

Magic_Orthodoxy wrote:agreed with all of the designers who completely bail on projects - isn't it refreshing to find a creator who is honest, a straight shooter and who takes the brunt of the problem on himself?

This!

Sure there's a screw-up in the Moriarty deck (well... actually three), but the way Jackson has handled it is a credit to him. Compare this to some of the other card producers (*cough* Altruism *cough*).

Altruism gave each buyer the correct Queen in a little envelope, so in effect you got 1 additional queen for free. I had no problem with that. If they had simply sold it as is, doubles of 1 queen and missing another, that would have been a worthless deck for actual use.

The problem with the Altruism fudge-up was that they never made it public. Had they been up front about it (like Jackson has been) it wouldn't be an issue, but they didn't even put it on the product page until long after people got their decks and complained about it.

Sweet Mary Mother of God!!! These look amazing!!!!

Update from Jackson:

"This morning I got a envelope from USPCC with samples of the Sherlock Tuck cases, and HOLY SMOKES!!! These turned out exponetially better than I could have hoped. They look absolutley amazing and the picture DO NOT do the tucks justice.

USPCC is hand applying all of the numbered seal this week, and we should be very close to delivery of the decks to me. MAN I CAN'T WAIT to have these in my hands!!!

Enjoy."







Bakerstreet Edition


















Limited Edition Bakerstreet















Holmes Edition












Moriarty Edition















Hound of the Baskervilles Edition












WOW WOW WOW!



CBJ

CBJ wrote: WOW WOW WOW!
CBJ

you forget one thing.... WOW

These look incredible! The embossing is the crowning touch. Kudos to Jackson.

ETA- oh, and that foil!

Damn, those boxes are so nice no one will notice or care about the minor printing mistakes on the Moriarty deck! These tucks are so stunning, and these will challenge T11 for best tuck boxes. Hell, the printing and the foiling inside the tucks probably take these above and beyond T11.

Jackson has notified backers of this project today that the decks are in and shipping has begun. Backers whose pledges include the Moriarty deck will be later in the shipping queue while the Kings Wild team finalizes plans to make up for the errors that appear on a couple of cards in those decks (discussed earlier in this thread). He also noted that if backers placed more than one order/ordered with more than one account, the shipments are being handled separately rather than being consolidated, in the interests of expediting the process.

As others have similarly noted here, I remain impressed with how Jackson runs his campaigns, and I am very much looking forward to getting my hands on these cards. If the pictures are any indication, this project is really going to be raising the bar!

rousselle wrote:Jackson has notified backers of this project today that the decks are in and shipping has begun. Backers whose pledges include the Moriarty deck will be later in the shipping queue while the Kings Wild team finalizes plans to make up for the errors that appear on a couple of cards in those decks (discussed earlier in this thread). He also noted that if backers placed more than one order/ordered with more than one account, the shipments are being handled separately rather than being consolidated, in the interests of expediting the process.

As others have similarly noted here, I remain impressed with how Jackson runs his campaigns, and I am very much looking forward to getting my hands on these cards. If the pictures are any indication, this project is really going to be raising the bar!

Very cool! That means that one of my orders will ship immediately and one of them will wait, which works for me. I know Jackson is a perfectionist, but I really don't see how that mistake makes those decks any less than impressive, especially the tuck for the Moriarty edition. All in all those are some sweet darned tucks!

Seriously - how many people will ever open the decks (10%?) and how many of those would ever know that there are two cards mislabeled even of that 10% if he hadn't already pointed it out? I'm going to go out on a limb and say "nobody" unless there is someone that is a true Sherlock Holmes expert and a non-collector.

I have to say, I've been critical of some of Jackson's decisions in the past but he's definitely learned from the issues that have arisen and has become a great businessman in addition to a phenomenal artist. Really looking forward to this deck and all his future projects.

chach wrote:I have to say, I've been critical of some of Jackson's decisions in the past but he's definitely learned from the issues that have arisen and has become a great businessman in addition to a phenomenal artist. Really looking forward to this deck and all his future projects.

Trudat Chach!

I just noticed something. The drawing of Moriarty as a court for the Moriarty Edition on the main Kickstarter page is different from the one in Update#46. On the main page, Moriarty is the Suicide King of Hearts but on Update#46 Moriarty is the King of Spades (the Jack of Spades is supposed to Col. Moran but mislabeled Moriarty):





As far as I know the courts for both the Holmes and Moriarty Edition are the same, just recolored. Have the courts for the Moriarty Edition changed? Just curious. The Morstan court card for the Holmes Edition is also different from the Moriarty Edition:



However, the Hudson court card for the Holmes Edition is the same as the Moriarty Edition (albeit mislabeled as "Morstan" in the Moriarty Edition):



I quickly scanned all the Sherlock updates (yes, all 50 of them. lol) and didn't see any mention of this change. But then again I could be wrong, I didn't fully read everything in each update after all. Jackson could have also changed his mind about he courts and redrew them.

At the very end of the campaign I announced that I was going to make an unreached stretch goal of making the Moriarty Edition have a whole new unique court set available even though we didn't meet the stretch goal. That is why the courts look different because I made a whole new set of court cards for the Moriarty Edition. The Moriarty edition features all of villains from the Conan Doyle Story and the queens are the "damsels in distress" Even some of the same characters I made completely new illustrations for the separate decks, as I wanted to use many different likenesses of different actors and actresses who have plaid the different characters over the years.

Here you go:
NOTE: These are photographs of the V1 Moriarty Edition cards but with the errors photoshopped out.











Mod edit: made the images fit into the page, click on it for full size

Oh, awesome! I guess I just missed it But this is a really nice surprise (at least to me, since I missed it, haha). Thanks for clearing that up, Jackson! Really liking these courts.

I missed out on the kickstarter. Don't ask me how!!!
Is there a way for me to get my hands on a set of these? They look amazing and I'm a huge fan of Sherlock.
Hopefully I haven't missed out.

Wilko wrote:I missed out on the kickstarter. Don't ask me how!!!
Is there a way for me to get my hands on a set of these? They look amazing and I'm a huge fan of Sherlock.
Hopefully I haven't missed out.

Jackson will be releasing the excess on kingswild, dont expect to have the LEs there tho.

volantangel wrote:

Wilko wrote:I missed out on the kickstarter. Don't ask me how!!!
Is there a way for me to get my hands on a set of these? They look amazing and I'm a huge fan of Sherlock.
Hopefully I haven't missed out.

Jackson will be releasing the excess on kingswild, dont expect to have the LEs there tho.

The Bakerstreet LE deck will be on sale because Jackson has some left over. It's the batch that he was supposed to gild, but didn't.