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Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:04 pm
by double_left
Evilgamer wrote:
I had some asked me on reddit why you were pricing that deck at $85 (I just didnt respond because I dont have a good answer).
omar has answered this many times evilgamer

his time as being a 3rd party broker to produce playing cards comes with fees supposedly

his r&d, outsourcing and overall planning comes with fees as well

his non-stop passion for this community comes at a luxury price tag/tax to us all


the All-In Package for $345 + $30 shipping gets me:

12 decks +
a fancy brick box to house them in
+ a green dynastinea + “highly limited” prism (LOL) + Gold Legacy Limited

where does min 16 decks come in? at 900% for a Magic Bundle edition? plus undisclosed extras which are?? not coins or uncut are included so can you elaborate

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:15 pm
by Evilgamer
Im not going to get into all that because my goal is not to give Omar a hard time by any means.
A lot of that however is project cost, not deck cost, and it would be spread out over all 10,000-20,000+ decks

What am I trying to do? I dunno at this point, point out any stumbling blocks or pain points for backers?, be nicer about them than most people on the internet will so that they can be avoided or at least anticipated if they happen?

Im in it for $225 as of today, and Im willing to go more if I need to I think that makes this my most expensive campaign for the campaign decks so far (which is to say not including not some addon/old decks available as part of it). I have at least deck from every campaign hes made so far and Im in for goldsmith, I intend to support every TGW campaign, even the ones that I like less than this one....and I like this one a lot.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:28 pm
by TheGentlemanWake
double_left wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:04 pm
Evilgamer wrote:
I had some asked me on reddit why you were pricing that deck at $85 (I just didnt respond because I dont have a good answer).
omar has answered this many times evilgamer

his time as being a 3rd party broker to produce playing cards comes with fees supposedly

his r&d, outsourcing and overall planning comes with fees as well

his non-stop passion for this community comes at a luxury price tag/tax to us all


the All-In Package for $345 + $30 shipping gets me:

12 decks +
a fancy brick box to house them in
+ a green dynastinea + “highly limited” prism (LOL) + Gold Legacy Limited

where does min 16 decks come in? at 900% for a Magic Bundle edition? plus undisclosed extras which are?? not coins or uncut are included so can you elaborate
12 decks in the brick box
1 Blue
1 Red
1 Black
1 Green
1 Purple
1 Gold (likely unlocked)
1 Marked Magician deck (if unlocked)

Just in case you have a hard time counting those I'm going to go ahead and do it for you. 19 decks. That's about $19 a deck AFTER shipping. I'd say that's actually great value. If you read the description of the tier (i can tell reading AND math are difficult for you) you will see that the $11 coin IS in fact also included. Additionally, I don't know what's funny about the 'highly limited'. Last I checkd 500 units wasn't exactly MASS produced.

You are a very unpleasant person... and for some reason you've always aimed to turn your unpleasantness against me. I'm tired of you and I'm tired of explaining things to you so that even the most dim-witted could understand it. I'll be blocking you after this reply.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:29 pm
by TheGentlemanWake
Evilgamer wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:15 pm Im not going to get into all that because my goal is not to give Omar a hard time by any means.
A lot of that however is project cost, not deck cost, and it would be spread out over all 10,000-20,000+ decks

What am I trying to do? I dunno at this point, point out any stumbling blocks or pain points for backers?, be nicer about them than most people on the internet will so that they can be avoided or at least anticipated if they happen?

Im in it for $225 as of today, and Im willing to go more if I need to I think that makes this my most expensive campaign for the campaign decks so far (which is to say not including not some addon/old decks available as part of it). I have at least deck from every campaign hes made so far and Im in for goldsmith, I intend to support every TGW campaign, even the ones that I like less than this one....and I like this one a lot.
Thank you for your support! Your feedback and pain points ARE always welcome and appreciated. You help me make the projects better.

FYI Double_left is a troll of the highest order.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:45 pm
by kevork
Keep in mind that if you turned left twice, you would have turned yourself around.

I'm just sticking to one of each deck. I appreciate being given the option to do that and I intend to take full advantage. My heart and wallet are more content as a result, even if I'm fully aware a completionist tier would give me more value per deck. The sum total would be higher and that's my main concern at the end of the day.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:16 pm
by Disenchanted_11
I am fascinated by the completionist backers, their support is incredible. What is not comforting at this point is that we depend on more of those pledges coming in (and getting retained) to reach the 500% marker.

I'm hoping when get to the end and 500% didn't happen, at least make the black borders a reality. Surely the consideration for that marker is mostly due to the added production cost of legacy editions. Some black inks wouldn't cost that much, right?

Call me a pessimist, but I'd rather be one right now and be wrong later; than be an optimist now and be wrong later.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:24 pm
by Evilgamer
500% will happen we only need $8700 in 15 days. That would be ludicrously low. Once we hit and unlock the gold deck that I don't really see too much defection from the higher tiers..some sure..but at this point with the prism decks sold out for all practical purposes the only way to get one is to go completionist/prototype so those tiers are becoming more on the asset than liability side of the ledger.

500% unlocks a new deck which will push us towards 600%. I think we CAN get there but my magic 8 ball is coming up fuzzy on the gold deck interest level. Past that point I dunno, unless Omar pivots and moves the marked deck lower there are only 2 rabbits that I know of that he can pull for significant funding.

1. uncut sheets, this probably happens but again...not sure the interest level
2. prototypes...which will cheese off some percentage of people in the absolute ultimate tier since that deck is currently locked to it, I'd buy one but I don't see Omar doing this.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:33 pm
by Honeybee
Evilgamer wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:25 pm

I dont think most people, myself included have any idea of the business side of making cards. They just see the prices go $20, $20 $26 $85 $35 $36 and say either in a nice way "one of these things are not like the others" or probably more in the traditional internet style "youre gouging us!!11111". I had some asked me on reddit why you were pricing that deck at $85 (I just didnt respond because I dont have a good answer). But at the end of the day either youre willing to pay the asking price for the thing or you aren't based on whatever your person feelings or criteria are.

Certainly the cost of scale applies to why a run of 500 costs more than a run of 1500 or 5000 but as we say at my office "perception is reality" when it comes to how people will decide why they think things costs what they do.
We certainly don't. I wanted to understand Prismatic Foiling and found this Designers Guide to Foil Stamping and Embossing.

https://www.kluge.biz/wp-content/upload ... ing-US.pdf

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:49 pm
by Adamthinks
double_left wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:04 pm ...
where does min 16 decks come in? at 900% for a Magic Bundle edition? plus undisclosed extras which are?? not coins or uncut are included so can you elaborate
Is being a curmudgeon your favorite thing? It sure seems like it.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:00 pm
by PiazzaDelivery
I so wish I could swear, not to direct anything at double_left, but to express support for that penned bitchslap.

Guys, trolling 101 is if you get the reaction you want out of your mark, you win. There are two time-tested solutions: ridicule and the silent treatment. Pick one, stick to it.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:47 pm
by TheGentlemanWake
PiazzaDelivery wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:00 pm I so wish I could swear, not to direct anything at double_left, but to express support for that penned bitchslap.

Guys, trolling 101 is if you get the reaction you want out of your mark, you win. There are two time-tested solutions: ridicule and the silent treatment. Pick one, stick to it.
Indeed, I only entertained his post because he had some GLARING inaccuracies that I wanted to correct for other forum members who might stumble across his babbling post.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:16 am
by TheGentlemanWake
Disenchanted_11 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:16 pm I am fascinated by the completionist backers, their support is incredible. What is not comforting at this point is that we depend on more of those pledges coming in (and getting retained) to reach the 500% marker.

I'm hoping when get to the end and 500% didn't happen, at least make the black borders a reality. Surely the consideration for that marker is mostly due to the added production cost of legacy editions. Some black inks wouldn't cost that much, right?

Call me a pessimist, but I'd rather be one right now and be wrong later; than be an optimist now and be wrong later.
I appreciate your participation in this thread Disenchanted... but I must say you have been a rather pessimistic voice, so to that end you are being successful at your goals! LOL.

I think 500% is likely at this point. I was caught by surprise by the demand for the loose Prism deck and I'm contemplating opening up 50 more (from my reserve of 70) to the add-ons. If those sell out we'd be looking at an additional 4.5k more or less. We still need to close the gap to 112.5k but we'd be close.

Regarding the black borders and their expense... let me try to be as illuminating as I can. So there are many factors that affect pricing when it comes to Cartamundi (or any printer for that matter). Edition size is the first obvious one. More decks = lower per unit cost. Inversely less decks is HIGH cost per unit. This is in part due to the set-up costs associated with a print run. Any 1 deck can have as many as 4 or 6 print cycles associated with it. You have to look at printing prices as a PER SIDE of the card thing. Each SIDE of the deck is a different price. The combined total is the price per deck cost of the print run.

For example the paper will go through the press once for CMYK printing, then again for Pantone or spot inks and a final time for Foil (not necessarily in that order--sometimes you want ink on the foil other times you want foil over ink). Those THREE Passes is PER SIDE of the card. 3 passes on the faces. 3 on the backs. Which is why decks with pantones and foils are more expensive than those without those features.

So as it stands right now the Black deck (which for all intents is the same as the Legacy) will SHARE the setup (and setup costs) associated with the Dynastinae and the Prism. That means that if I plan on printing 2500 black decks, 1500 legacy, 777 green decks, and 500 prisms that Cartamundi will set up and run DIFFERENT Cmyk, pantone and foil passes for the backs by default (3 passes each) and then the faces will ALL get the same CMYK, Pantone and Foils. So that means the 5277 black/gold/green/purple faces can all be printed at once--one setup for all PER feature (i.e. INk/pantone/foil). And because the edition size for the FACES is effectively 5277 it's much cheaper. What the stretch goals do is unlock specific changes to the faces of those decks. The prestige/legacy decks get black borders which now effective means that the dynastinae/prism faces are a NEW set up. And a new setup for a run of only 1277 decks (green and purple combined) means a MUCH higher price per unit. Compound that by the fact that if Prism gets the holofoiled faces that is now an ADDITIONAL setup with the Foil pass being different from Dynastinae to Prism with a very low run of 777 and 500 respectively. (The cymk and pantone setups would remain shared among the dynastinae/prism as they'd be the same still. Only the foil changes. The gilding on the legacy is no big deal because Cartamundi would just shave off the 1500 legacy decks and gild those leaving the remainder for the prestige. The tuck boxes are printed separately and are a marginal cost because the plates are shared. Requiring only new drums of foil for each pass (and then only on two of the three foil layers on the tuck--there's a shared gold layer both the black and gold tucks have). But the price per unit can be drastically affected by the cost of these setups and calibrations. Cartamundi isn't just changing the ink color or foil color theres a lengthy registration and calibaration process that takes place that assures foil lines up with the ink on the card perfectly, aside from adjusting plates or inks. SO a run of 50000 decks might only cost a few dollars a deck (which is how Theory 11 can price their decks so cheaply) and a run of 500 might be twenty times as expensive before even getting to gilding costs, tuck case pricing, fulfillment and any additional costs like the initial design itself.

So although I would LOVE nothing more than to add the black borders to the prestige and legacy decks, the stretch goals are strategically calculated to help pay for the additional costs involved in unlocking those very same features. They are not arbitrary markers. The $22,500 difference between 400 and 500 percent allows for the costs of running a new batch of gold tucks with new foils, gilding the prestige decks to become legacy, and adding the black borders to the prestige/legacy decks. Same goes for the prism upgrade. The magic bundle upgrade is a bit further away because now we are talking about Widakk's time to implement the marking system into the back design (which we've only just theoretically designed), the printing of said deck (another 2 set up pass for the backs) and tucks, the printing of the gaff pack cards and tucks, PLUS the design and printing of sleeves to hold both the deck and gaff pack together.

I hope this helps show why stretch goals are a thing and why features that seem obvious (like pantone inks, inner tuck box patterns or holo foil faces on the prism) are not so cut and dry. Just adding pantone inks is in effect adding an extra pass which doesn't double the price but perhaps adds 30-40%. CMYK after all is actually 4 passes IN and OF itself (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black) which all need to be perfectly registered.
Evilgamer wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:24 pm 500% will happen we only need $8700 in 15 days. That would be ludicrously low. Once we hit and unlock the gold deck that I don't really see too much defection from the higher tiers..some sure..but at this point with the prism decks sold out for all practical purposes the only way to get one is to go completionist/prototype so those tiers are becoming more on the asset than liability side of the ledger.

500% unlocks a new deck which will push us towards 600%. I think we CAN get there but my magic 8 ball is coming up fuzzy on the gold deck interest level. Past that point I dunno, unless Omar pivots and moves the marked deck lower there are only 2 rabbits that I know of that he can pull for significant funding.

1. uncut sheets, this probably happens but again...not sure the interest level
2. prototypes...which will cheese off some percentage of people in the absolute ultimate tier since that deck is currently locked to it, I'd buy one but I don't see Omar doing this.
The uncut sheets will be made available in the next few days. We usually sell a few. But not enough to move the needle to sizeably. The prototypes will never be offered for sale outside of prototype tiers. Only a small handful might trickle out as SPECIAL giveaways. I'm basically using all of the disposable units for the campaign.

My explanation above shows why moving the marked deck up is unlikely.

Ultimately what will get us to where we all want to go (600% and beyond) will be NEW backers. 540 is LOW even by my campaign standards. Part of this is my absence on Youtube. I have plans to release at least 2 if not 3 reviews during the last 15 days of the campaign that will hopefully garner new attention. Wyrmwood is also going to do another round of promotion for Beetlebacks that should bring in some new folks hopefully.

IF ANYONE has any ideas on how to spread the word I'm all ears. Happy to listen to them even if I've already thought of them and/or am doing them.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:29 am
by kevork
Omar, what are the benefits of using Pantone inks for the cards rather than CMYK? Is it solely just for accuracy?

I don't usually hear this feature being marketed from other producers.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:34 am
by TheGentlemanWake
kevork wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:29 am Omar, what are the benefits of using Pantone inks for the cards rather than CMYK? Is it solely just for accuracy?

I don't usually hear this feature being marketed from other producers.
Precise color matching and accuracy for one. Making sure the tucks and the cards match for instance. We did it with successor. Especially on the green backs of the dynastinae and it was a really good match. Many people still mark the difference in the tempest dynastinae tuck and the paper stock used on the cards as one of the few critiques of the deck.

The second reason, and the one I use it for most often is Metallic inks. Pantone metallics have literal metal flakes in the ink that offer a wonderful sheen. We used metallics on not just the gold ink on successor but on the metallic purple and green used on the prism and dynastinae backs respectively. It's a noticeable upgrade. Golds look gold rather than yellow which what happens with inks. Gold is just shades of orange and yellow when created with CMYK

Finally vibrancy. Pantones are VIBRANT pure tones created from specific pigments. CMYK can be muddy at times which makes sense when what it is you are doing is just combining a bunch of inks together through passes on the press.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:15 am
by laitostarr777
Take examples from MOST of TWI decks, Kevork!
They all using Pantone Metallic, and look how SHINY they are compared to just ordinary metallic ink. Monolith White should serve you that sample~

Pantone is always the go-to for printing accuracy! No hassle in “it gets darker after print”

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:00 am
by Harvonsgard
Great printing insights you shared there Omar.

In hindsight, I'd say you should've revived your channel way prior to this campaign. I'd say one part of Parlour, in regards to backer numbers specifically, having a great success, was that - at least to me - it felt you were on the peak of TGW youtube back then. Correct me if I'm wrong there.
I guess with the campaign running, there isn't really more you can do, than being active across the known social media places. I'm not active in regards to card instagram but I guess the known folks share your project in their stories and stuff? Like @madaboutcards and the other usual suspects?
I'll keep my fingers crossed 🤞🏿.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:21 am
by double_left
my bad, 900% was a metal card not 800%

my sincere apologies Omar for not reading YOUR campaign properly

nowhere on your campaign page does this tier have a breakdown like mentioned below


TheGentlemanWake wrote: 12 decks in the brick box
1 Blue
1 Red
1 Black
1 Green
1 Purple
1 Gold (likely unlocked)
1 Marked Magician deck (if unlocked)

instead it displays fancy wording like this:

"A powerful show of support and an incredible value! Perfect for the set-it-and-forget-it crowd. Pledging this limited tier will guarantee at least one of each of the most unique and rare decks available as stretch goals throughout the campaign without the stress of coordinated launch times and limited add-on windows. As the stretch goals unlock they will be automatically added at no additional cost including the Legacy Limited Edition, the Highly Limited Prism Edition & More! It will Include at LEAST sixteen Beetle Backs decks total, plus undisclosed extras!"

what undisclosed extras? a sticker? a coaster? not coins/uncuts or WW display boxes for $115,$130,$190 respectfully

funding goal set at 22,500$ with a 800% funding goal puts this campaign in the ~180k range

im not shocked this campaign was scheduled the way it was=gonna be a good xmas dec 22nd 2weeks after champaign and chinese new years kicks in

btw, i am a contributor to your past 3 campaigns

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:54 am
by CourtCurator
double_left wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:21 am
IMG_7477.gif
IMG_7477.gif (3.04 MiB) Viewed 59173 times

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:55 am
by Evilgamer
Thank you for the rundown Omar I think that flowchart of if/then=cost would give me a headache. Not to mention then figuring out how to structure the campaign as a result. Curious how you keep It straight.

I wish I did have any ideas, you've gotten decks in a few YouTube hands, any more you can pull off would be a positive, but you already knew that. WW sending out email again (or somehow fitting it into wyrmlife which hasn't happened yet) could help, you've already posted on reddit a few times, KS put it on their page (didnt help at all it seemed).

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:01 am
by TheGentlemanWake
Evilgamer wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:55 am Thank you for the rundown Omar I think that flowchart of if/then=cost would give me a headache. Not to mention then figuring out how to structure the campaign as a result. Curious how you keep It straight.
Oh it even goes deeper than that. For instance does the deck in question need tucks printed by Cartamundi or not? If outside printer is handling the tucks then Cartamundi must receive and package them. Whatabout a sleeve? All of this handling time adds additional cost. Which is why the Successor Prism was the single MOST expensive deck I’ve ever produced.

How do I keep everything in check? Mostly just having learned tough lessons over the years of making mistakes. Thankfully it’s pretty ingrained in my thought process now. But it is a bit of jigsaw puzzle. But staggering the improvements and spinning decks off of each other in the way to make them as unique as they can be is important.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:11 pm
by Timmargh
double_left wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:21 am [...]

nowhere on your campaign page does this tier have a breakdown like mentioned below


TheGentlemanWake wrote: 12 decks in the brick box
1 Blue
1 Red
1 Black
1 Green
1 Purple
1 Gold (likely unlocked)
1 Marked Magician deck (if unlocked)

instead it displays fancy wording like this:

"A powerful show of support and an incredible value! Perfect for the set-it-and-forget-it crowd. Pledging this limited tier will guarantee at least one of each of the most unique and rare decks available as stretch goals throughout the campaign without the stress of coordinated launch times and limited add-on windows. As the stretch goals unlock they will be automatically added at no additional cost including the Legacy Limited Edition, the Highly Limited Prism Edition & More! It will Include at LEAST sixteen Beetle Backs decks total, plus undisclosed extras!"

what undisclosed extras? a sticker? a coaster? not coins/uncuts or WW display boxes for $115,$130,$190 respectfully

funding goal set at 22,500$ with a 800% funding goal puts this campaign in the ~180k range

im not shocked this campaign was scheduled the way it was=gonna be a good xmas dec 22nd 2weeks after champaign and chinese new years kicks in

btw, i am a contributor to your past 3 campaigns



In the Rewards section of the desktop site:

Image




And in the reward selection screen of the iOS app:

Image




And the thing about "undisclosed extras" is that they're … undisclosed.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:18 pm
by Bradius
One thing I do regret is not buying a freaking gross of the Tale of the Tempest Wylenti decks for $6 each when you could add them without limit. I only got six. What was I thinking?

My two Parlour brick sets are a big highlight. Somehow I managed the lottery and got bricks #002 and #009. Yeah baby!

I doubt anyone will regret picking up either the Completionist or the Prototype sets. If I could do it, I would just go for it and get the Prototype set. Yeah, it would be nice to be "all in".

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:32 pm
by hsbc
The Wylenti decks were $9 but the point stands :D

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:45 pm
by TheGentlemanWake
Btw I have updated the campaign with uncut sheets addons. I’ll write an update for it tomorrow. But if anyone wants one they are there.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:48 pm
by Evilgamer
no shots of the sheets!?!?!

Image

but seriously(cant take pictures of things you dont have on hand), glad to see it, do you think you'll ever do a deck where the uncut sheet (or at least suits) is a large single image? (and therefore the deck as well)

Maybe a new project with Lorenzo after the one you've talked about :)

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:58 pm
by TheGentlemanWake
Evilgamer wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:48 pm no shots of the sheets!?!?!

Image

but seriously(cant take pictures of things you dont have on hand), glad to see it, do you think you'll ever do a deck where the uncut sheet (or at least suits) is a large single image? (and therefore the deck as well)

Maybe a new project with Lorenzo after the one you've talked about :)
No plan la for that now. But you never know

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:45 pm
by Disenchanted_11
TheGentlemanWake wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:16 am
Disenchanted_11 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:16 pm I am fascinated by the completionist backers, their support is incredible. What is not comforting at this point is that we depend on more of those pledges coming in (and getting retained) to reach the 500% marker.

I'm hoping when get to the end and 500% didn't happen, at least make the black borders a reality. Surely the consideration for that marker is mostly due to the added production cost of legacy editions. Some black inks wouldn't cost that much, right?

Call me a pessimist, but I'd rather be one right now and be wrong later; than be an optimist now and be wrong later.
I appreciate your participation in this thread Disenchanted... but I must say you have been a rather pessimistic voice, so to that end you are being successful at your goals! LOL.
Thank you for the elaborate explanation of how card printing works, that's too much information some might say it's trade secret. :lol:

I think the main problem for me is that I like the black edition, with black borders, and I backed for it. But now I have to wait and depend on having enough people to pledge for the high tiers. Which, based on your explanation, those several editions cost too much to produce and that's why a stretch-goal is needed to make the black borders. I think it's in itself is a paradox. It wouldn't have been that way if for say you make 1 luxury edition with black borders upfront. Surely keep the green Dynastinae going, I think those are cool.

But this 7 or so deck edition format looks like forced at this point, and from what we're seeing, the fanbase has become less people pledging for more, rather than more people pledging for less. (Based on number of backers since the first project)

I ordered the Goldsmith. It's really nice for me. Pure luxury.
I backed luxury Groundskeeper and the coin set. Really nice.
I skipped Corrupted, for obvious reasons.
I backed luxury Beetlebacks. Really nice with black borders.
I will back Sanctuary.
I will likely back Villa Beluno, despite it not being part of the series.

You see the pattern. I like the luxury, it's what you do. It's great. I don't need the 7 different deck colors.
And this preference shouldn't be dependent of one another like what's happening on this campaign.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:26 pm
by kevork
That's exactly how I feel about a Prism edition for The Grave Witness, for example. Feels forced and unnecessary. But it looks like people's wallets are doing the speaking.

Less backers forking more per pledge from a business standpoint I suppose doesn't matter if looking at the gross total, but from a growth perspective, doesn't necessarily bode well.

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:31 pm
by Honeybee
I like the luxury, it's what you do. It's great. I don't need the 7 different deck colors.
And this preference shouldn't be dependent of one another like what's happening on this campaign.
I am thinking that the luxury are always going to be available on the after-market but this is the designer trying to maximize funding on Kickstarter

What about those who prefer the Prestige without the black borders - will they still be an option if the 500% is achieved?

Re: TGW presents The Beetlebacks designed by Widakk

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:42 pm
by GandalfPC
Bradius wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:18 pm One thing I do regret is not buying a freaking gross of the Tale of the Tempest Wylenti decks for $6 each when you could add them without limit. I only got six. What was I thinking?
I was also foolish enough to only stock away six of those acorns…. With winter approaching I now see the err of my ways, alas too late… Opportunity being unforgiving.