Legal Tender - By Jackson Robinson

[flashcards]

Here are the last two updates:

May 11 2017
Legal Tender is at Gambler's Warehouse!
Legal Tender has arrived at Gambler's Warehouse! Since this is the first time Gambler's has fulfilled one of our projects, we have to go through some standard procedures before fulfillment begins. However, fulfillment will begin soon. You should have received a 48 hour reminder from Backerkit to finalize your address if it has changed. Thank you guys for your support throughout this project.

May 18 2017
Hey guys! We're finishing up the last details for shipping and fulfillment should begin next week. We'll give you more details on fulfillment process once we begin. Thank you for your patience.

I don't what the average turn around time is for Gambler's but I was under the impression that it was pretty quick. Perhaps someone in the know could enlighten us. I don't remember getting a Backerkit notice either.

[pablo]

I got a backerkit a long time ago, didnt do anything sice i had my pledge refynded by jackson when it turned out there would be no holographic foil on the cards. But hes communicating a lot better lately, just not in this forum for, sort of, obvious reasons

Enviado desde mi Aquaris_M4.5 mediante Tapatalk

[ecNate]

Here are the last two updates:

May 11 2017
Legal Tender is at Gambler's Warehouse!
Legal Tender has arrived at Gambler's Warehouse! Since this is the first time Gambler's has fulfilled one of our projects, we have to go through some standard procedures before fulfillment begins. However, fulfillment will begin soon. You should have received a 48 hour reminder from Backerkit to finalize your address if it has changed. Thank you guys for your support throughout this project.

May 18 2017
Hey guys! We're finishing up the last details for shipping and fulfillment should begin next week. We'll give you more details on fulfillment process once we begin. Thank you for your patience.

I don't what the average turn around time is for Gambler's but I was under the impression that it was pretty quick. Perhaps someone in the know could enlighten us. I don't remember getting a Backerkit notice either.

So that should have meant the week of the 22nd, but a week after on the 29th this was Jackson's comment "Shipping will start this coming week". Which to me means the week of June 5th, 3-4 weeks after arriving and 2 weeks after they said it would start. Transparency is what is needed, because this just reeks of something I just don't know what.

[vasta41]

Transparency is what is needed, because this just reeks of something I just don't know what.

I'll tell you what it reeks of- Jackson Robinson no longer giving a shit about anything but profit. His work has gotten lazy as indicated by all the misspellings and mistakes riddled throughout almost every single one of his recent campaigns. He hasn't been doing his homework as indicated by the many things (special features, add-ons, etc.) promised during a campaign but not delivered afterward. Even though we're just a small percentile of backers his absence here over the past 6 months or so indicate that he doesn't care about his customers anymore. Otherwise he'd be taking our feedback and listening to constructive criticism or at the least, facing his critics. Instead he has a "take it or leave it" attitude which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's not a good thing IMO. But whether you agree with that or not another more obvious indication he doesn't care about his customers is the crap updates he sends regarding shipping and progress. This project is now 6 months overdue and at one point he even had the nerve to act as though being overdue was no big deal, as indicated by sinjin here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8609&start=240#p113320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In summation I feel as though success really got to JR but I sure hope after all this he got knocked back down a few pegs and he reverts back to what he once was.

[ecNate]

Playingcards.net and Gamblers Warehouse has sent you a package

Just got that email and based on my lower level of pledges and what's outstanding that can only mean they actually are shipping now. GW Fulfillment should really take the added step of including in the email what is being sent, even if it's just generic 'from the Kickstarter x campaign'.

[Cbkimble]

Playingcards.net and Gamblers Warehouse has sent you a package

Just got that email and based on my lower level of pledges and what's outstanding that can only mean they actually are shipping now. GW Fulfillment should really take the added step of including in the email what is being sent, even if it's just generic 'from the Kickstarter x campaign'.

I completely agree. I doubt it would add that much coding to the email to include what is being shipped.

[flashcards]

Like Nate, I got a tracking number from GW today as well. Figures. I assume it is the Legal Tender decks, but as Nate said, it would be nice if they would let you know. I was concerned more about the quality of the cards than the lack of holographic foil. It will be interesting to see how they turned out.

[sinjin7]

I just got my mixed brick of Legal Tender decks, and this is the most disappointed I've ever been with a deck produced by Jackson. It's even worse than the whole Moriarty v.1 debacle. We already know about the whole holographic foil screw up and the tardiness in which Jackson informed us about no holo foil (or any foil), but I'm discovering so many new issues I almost don't know where to begin.

The most unforgivable aspect of this deck is that it fans like utter crap. I'm talking way worse than even Global Titans, which were, up until this point, the worst deck from EPCC/LPCC. I'm talking way way worse than any deck with foiling, and these infamously don't have any foil. I'm not exaggerating when I say I have some novelty decks that I've bought for less than a dollar that fan better than these decks. Both the U.S. and China currency versions are equally bad. I'm actually offended that Jackson charged us $16.00 per deck shipped for this unacceptable low level of quality.

The tuck boxes feel very flimsy, the stock feels thin and the tucks have some sort of coating that's somewhere between glossy and matte that feels cheap. The embossing is poor on the US version. The simpler outline of embossing doesn't match well with the detail of the printing, and there's a minor error in the embossing on the back of the tuck where there's embossing for the date banner that's found on the front of the tuck, but not present on the back design, yet the embossing is there despite the lack of the date banner on the back. Again, while its a minor embossing error, it lends to the feeling that something isn't quite right with the overall embossing of the whole deck. In the KS renders, both tucks showed fancy deck seals, especially for the Chinese version, but none of the decks have any deck seals. Now I've been on record in saying I really don't care for deck seals, but in this instance, it just makes me wonder where all the money went in producing this overpriced deck? We didn't get foiling (holo or otherwise), these were printed in a cheaper overseas factory (China?), and now they don't even have seals. So exactly what the #@%$ were we charged $16.00 per deck for? Apparently for the privilege funding his damn YouTube videos...

The background color on the face cards are different for each suit. Noticeably different. So noticeably different that I have fears these decks may possibly be rendered unplayable. The Spades are purple, the Hearts are green, the Diamonds are pink, and the Clubs are beige. Thankfully when the cards are face down and you push/spread a stack slightly to one side, all the colors are the same. But if you have a stack face up and push/spread the stack slightly to one side, it is very obvious what the suits are by the colors you see. Again, I'll have to play with these on a poker night to see if the cards can be flashed in any way during normal play where the suits of the cards may be revealed or not. The Chinese deck has obvious colored faces by suit as well.

The Ace of Spades for both the US deck and Chinese deck are pretty bad. The large center spades are just empty, which badly clashes with the ornate design all around them. The spades as they are just look out of place. I can only guess that the large center spades were supposed to receive some type of (holo) foil treatment, but since Jackson failed to incorporate the foil, this is what we were left with, a void in the center spades.

The bottom of the tucks indicate these were made in Taipei. In his updates, it certainly sounded like the cards were made in China, but when I asked him in the comment section if he would confirm these are printed in China, he never answered me. At this point I don't know if I would believe anything Jackson tells me about the Legal Tender decks anyway. If these were in fact printed in China, then mystery solved as to the exceptionally poor quality of the handling of the cards. They fan like China produced novelty decks. But if these were in fact printed in Taiwan, then I don't know if I can trust EPCC/LPCC decks anymore, even if they were printed in Taiwan.

Are there any positives to this deck? Well, the art is good on the court cards and backs for both the US and Chinese versions, and there is a little bit of foil on the tucks and a little bit of interior tuck printing, but precious little else to justify the cost we paid and the length of time we had to wait before being disappointed with the actual decks. If I walked into a shop and saw these decks and handled them, I wouldn't even pay $8.00 per deck for this quality, and we all paid double that for broken promises of ground-breaking bells and whistles. I mean, I figured we were screwed over already by not getting holo foiling, but I didn't expect to be let down to this massive degree.

I can almost hear Jackson's smug voice telling me to return them for a refund if I don't like them. Screw you, Jackson, these pieces of crap aren't worth my trouble of repacking all the decks and making a trip out to the post office to return them. I was inconvenienced enough having to wait all these months to get the decks in the first place, I refuse to be put out any further by these decks. I don't know if I'll ever back a Kickstarter project by Jackson ever again.

[flashcards]

I received my decks today but haven't opened them. As I've stated here and on the campaign page, I didn't care so much about the foiling as about the feel of the cards. Jackson did say that they would be made in China and that concerned me. It seems my worst fears have come to pass. I bought two of each, which really stretched my budget. I did this based on Jackson's track record and reputation. After this, I think I'm done with JR projects. Thanks to sinjin for that honest review.

BTW, I had sent him a PM on KS saying that only wanted 1 of each and a refund for the other two. I never got a reply so I decided to let it go in the hopes that the cards wouldn't be as bad as I was afraid they would be. Live and learn, I guess.

[vasta41]

I can almost hear Jackson's smug voice telling me to return them for a refund if I don't like them.

Yup- that's Jackson's MO. "Take it or leave it, your opinion doesn't matter." But you won't hear his smug voice on this forum The truth hurts I guess.

[LouCipherr]

I have to agree with every point sinjin made on this deck. I've never been disappointed with a JR deck until this one. The fanning is horrible, the different color background for each suit raises all kinds of issues, the cards have an almost 'plastic' feel to them (to me, at least)... very annoyed with how much we paid for these vs what we received as the final product.

[pablo]

That's a scathing review sinjin, glad I got my refund!

Enviado desde mi Aquaris_M4.5 mediante Tapatalk

[Conturbia]

is it that bad? I'm not a backer, but.. I just want to understand that. EPCC / LPCC can't play with their reputation at this level....

[Conturbia]

I just would like to say that as creators we review hard proofs, but not entire decks. We (Jackson too, I guess) have a trust bond with our printer, but we need to trust them too...

[jerichoholic]

Sounds like he printed in China, probably so he could put more money in his wallet. I'm kind of glad he refunded me on this one even though it wasn't by choice. Time will tell if he still sends me them as promised.

I said it for a long time that Jackson only cared about the money, especially when he starts charging like $35-40 a deck!

[PrincessTrouble]

I got my decks yesterday, but didn't open them. Now I don't want to.

I distinctly remember him saying these would be made in the EPCC China factory, which I will now steer clear of decks produced there. Hopefully other decks from there will not say made in Taipei.

[sinjin7]

The Chinese EPCC/LPCC factory is capable of producing decent quality decks, the Legends decks were printed in China and they handle and fan semi-decently. But the Legal Tender are a train wreck. If these were in fact printed in China, then I think the biggest red flag is the fact that the tucks say these are printed in Taiwan. Not only is it blatantly misleading false advertising, but it may even run afoul of laws governing the merchantability of products sold here in the U.S. If Jackson can do this, what's to stop other people from saving money by using cheaper printers and labeling the tuck as cards printed in Taiwan, or even the U.S. in an attempt to hide the inferior quality and avoid backlash? Many collectors never open their decks so they'll never know, and when the few that open and use the crappy cards call out the designer on the poor quality, the designer will probably shrug and say it may have been a bad batch or throw the printer under the bus.

[Gareth]

Well... that's put a real dampener on finally receiving a shipping notice.

I probably won't see my decks for more than a month, but I trust no opinion more wrt the quality and handling of a deck than sinjin7s.

It's just Sad. (my package, this project, JR's rep.... all of it).

[pablo]

Jackons reputation is robust, other projects with issues have shown that. He will have no problem getting another campaign to fund well above its initial goal. I'm far more surprised that EPCC/LPCC would risk their own reputation as a manufacturer knowing that printing a project by JR can give them a significant boost in the market. Unless they can point to Jackson and say this is the quality he asked and paid for, this is pretty much on them.

Enviado desde mi Aquaris_M4.5 mediante Tapatalk

[RichK]

Still waiting on my decks, probably tomorrow.

Anyway, saw this on his IG account. Fuzzy print says Shanghai then EPCC so I think we better beware unless you spend lots to get the 50+ letterpress deck.

[vasta41]

1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 (as depicted on the bottom of the tuck):
"and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody."
If Jackson wants to lead a quiet life and win the respect of outsiders he should be more interested in the constructive criticism of his supporters and less concerned with how to make an extra buck by sparing every expense to keep his profit margins ridiculously high.

[Conturbia]

I'd like to buy a couple of legal tenders, if you want to sell..

[flashcards]

Somebody on Ebay already has a set for sale at $79. I guess I know what I'll be doing first thing in the morning...

[Conturbia]

Somebody on Ebay already has a set for sale at $79. I guess I know what I'll be doing first thing in the morning...

Ahem, no thanks.

[guru]

I know tempers are running high and this may appear going off on a tangent, but I think I need to give my take on this. Though this doesn't appear to be the usual work done by Expert but calling the decks printed in China to be of substandard quality is unfair. Jackson hasn't responded yet to anyone on what happened with the stock or tuck quality or why the tuckbox says Printed in Taipei rather than PRC, we might be missing some part of the story for sure. That said, we, still, shouldn't brand all decks printed in China of low quality with the only reason of getting decks printed there is lower cost than available elsewhere even when compared with Taiwan.

I'm getting my decks printed from China and it affects my market. I didn't go there due to lower cost of printing. Taiwan printer refused to work directly due to the reason a no. of you know already, and it made me look for alternate options. This deck may be an outlier and I'm sure other decks like Jody's TITANS Robber Baron will change your perception soon but any such comments in a public forum can make people skeptical of anything coming from China where new creators like myself are more affected than some established creators. WIth hand on heart, I can vouch that I've always tried to give a better deal to buyers because of getting the advantage of working directly with a printer rather than going through an intermediary.

Anyone who has got an iota of doubt towards cost of printing in China vs Taiwan can make an enquiry with Expert or Legends and I'm sure they are going to find out that the cost of the decks on comparable stock is same. You get the benefits only when you are working with the printer directly.

[Mike Ratledge]

I know tempers are running high...

Sunish,I suppose that conventional wisdom here in the states is that Chinese goods are inferior is a long standing feeling that goes back to the world wars and other problems with the government, but I have to agree that dismissing any item "Made in China" out of hand without inspection is a true oversight at this point.

[RichK]

I know tempers are running high...

Sunish,I suppose that conventional wisdom here in the states is that Chinese goods are inferior is a long standing feeling that goes back to the world wars and other problems with the government, but I have to agree that dismissing any item "Made in China" out of hand without inspection is a true oversight at this point.

Mike,
You make a valid point here but I'm sure you read John's long description of how they handled. I feel it's up to every creator to know what they want to do with their cards and see if the manufacturer can deliver before they make statements of what the cards will have. Maybe Jackson knew only China could try to do the holographic foil so he went that route only to find it failed. I don't know.

As for Sunish, I've never known a creator to do such investigation to worldwide printers to see what they can do according to his specifications. His Divine Art deck is something amazing that came out of China but he put in the time to find his printer. I feel like Jackson didn't and assumed they'd be just as good as Taiwan but they aren't.
I don't know what bells and whistles he's thinking about with Intaglio besides the 50+ letterpress decks but inferior handling cards will hurt his reputation as a designer if people would take time to handle his deck and not just say "Oh, JR project, back it." which has happened. I"m guilty as one of those "Gotta back it" and now I'm screwed out of the exclusive limited Camelot deck because he caved in to those begging for the display deck. I get a signed key card...whoop-de-freaking-do and he gets thousands of extra dollars.

[Mike Ratledge]

I know tempers are running high...

Sunish,I suppose that conventional wisdom here in the states is that Chinese goods are inferior is a long standing feeling that goes back to the world wars and other problems with the government, but I have to agree that dismissing any item "Made in China" out of hand without inspection is a true oversight at this point.

Mike,
You make a valid point here but I'm sure you read John's long description of how they handled. I feel it's up to every creator to know what they want to do with their cards and see if the manufacturer can deliver before they make statements of what the cards will have. Maybe Jackson knew only China could try to do the holographic foil so he went that route only to find it failed. I don't know.

As for Sunish, I've never known a creator to do such investigation to worldwide printers to see what they can do according to his specifications. His Divine Art deck is something amazing that came out of China but he put in the time to find his printer. I feel like Jackson didn't and assumed they'd be just as good as Taiwan but they aren't.
I don't know what bells and whistles he's thinking about with Intaglio besides the 50+ letterpress decks but inferior handling cards will hurt his reputation as a designer if people would take time to handle his deck and not just say "Oh, JR project, back it." which has happened. I"m guilty as one of those "Gotta back it" and now I'm screwed out of the exclusive limited Camelot deck because he caved in to those begging for the display deck. I get a signed key card...whoop-de-freaking-do and he gets thousands of extra dollars.

Can't argue anything you observed at all, Rich. I also totally agree that it's likely JR "just assumed", which he seems to be doing a lot lately - and at least in this case - got caught with his pants down.

As many of us have noted before, and I think it goes without saying "If you don't do your homework"... (you're going to end up shooting yourself in the foot, to paraphrase?)

[vasta41]

Mike, I don't think your signature is long enough.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I have to chime in here.

First, admittedly, I am a huge JR fan. I have every deck he's ever designed (aside from Civil War and Liberty Red/Blue).

Secondly, after seeing many of the posts since delivery, I was beginning to be preemptively disappointed before even receiving my decks today.

I have to almost entirely disagree with the criticisms of these decks. I've only observed a few problems:

1. The cellophane is weak. Comes apart at the seams easily. Not happy about that.
2. No deck seals. I'm not a "seals are necessary" type of guy but I was expecting them here.
3. The US deck tuck just doesn't feel right. For some reason the China one feels appropriate.

I am honestly very appreciative of all artwork for both decks, both front and back. I like the different colored backgrounds for different suits. He designed a different background pattern for EACH suit of EACH deck and they are extremely detailed. I also have no problems with the handling of the cards in any manner. They actually dribble better than most decks fresh out of the box.

I honestly think that the frustration of many by the 6-month delay may be clouding judgment here. I'm disappointed by the lack of foil, no seals, and extended wait, too, but I feel like I was delivered a more-than-fair product for what I paid. I was/am very critical of the Crazy 8's decks. I'm trying to be as objective as I can. I'm glad I backed this project and these are decks I will be glad to play poker/euchre/etc with.