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I've been looking into it a bit. There is at least one other reproduction of this deck other than the Waddigtons one. With a different box, see: http://www.spielkartenonline-shop.de/de ... 14560.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It says 80€, but I got one from eBay over the weekend for 13€ I'll put up pictures when it arrives. It's unclear who printed these, Fournier keeps appearing in descriptions, but I think VASS (Vereinigte Altenburger und Stralsunder Spielkartenfabriken) is more likely. Also they were printed 1975 apparently, same time the waddingtons came out.

To add to the discussion on his deck I'll translate part of what Peter Endebrock writes on his site:
(http://www.endebrock.de/coll/pages-de/d1128.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

"[...]
[Dondorf GmbH] was at the time no longer independent, it had been taken over by Flemming-Wiskott in Glogau and these in turn were taken over by the Vereinigten Altenburger und Stralsunder Spielkartenfabriken.
The set was uncommonly painstakinly made using chromolithography[...] In the accompanying booklet it is described as 'A new german set - not only from its provenance, but also from its craft and art'. The figures appearing in the background of the court cards are explained in the booklet. On the back of the cards, the Watburg is pictured in the background.
[...]
There are new editions of this set since 1975. They are different from the original in the printing (offset printing), the backs, the black color of the text in the four of hearts and a six -pointed star in the color-mark in the center of the ace of hearts. Some reprints have the Indices AKQJ [for the courts] instead of AKDB"

Interesting that it was reprinted two different places at almost the same time. The tuck that is shown is a generic one, and this version has the strange two color backs (one red & gold tone, the other blue & gold tone) which makes little sense, especially because the original backs are a twelve color - in my opinion beautiful - design.

Also curious about the price for them. I suspect that it's just been hiked up as the supply gets low, because the Waddington version - which is identical except for the tuck - sells for about $15-$20 used and I found one unopened for $30 a few years ago. (actually blue back deck is sealed, red one is opened)

The other thing is that every example I have seen has those same washed out colors instead of the brilliant colors of the original. Not much care was taken as far as truly representing the true colors, which again is odd because these are the only example that I know of with 16 color faces. I am sure there likely are other decks that way, because I have several other German made decks with 12 color faces. One example is a salesmen's sample made by Dr Zander which has a truly unremarkable two color tuck, and only by examination of the inside (I. E. cards) do you see the quality and 12 color faces.

In any case, these will be the only true restoration ever done, since the others all have the plain backs. In my mind it looks like someone took scans of the faces and didn't have the OG back? Not sure, but that might explain why it has those relatively ugly backs and were named "Royal Gothic".

Watch this space. I will be making an announcement within the next few days.

There will be a 3-day pre-sale for members only on UCdecksales before we launch the KS campaign. A total of 250 decks of the Dondorf #1000 Centennial Jubilee restoration project will be available there, except for the up to 100 pre-sale.

The $105 price includes the player's deck, but you will need to add $10 for shipping. On KS it will be $130 total. Limit one set for the pre-sale and two on KS.

Specifics and more details will be posted in a few days, no more than a week, now.

Mike Ratledge wrote:Watch this space. I will be making an announcement within the next few days.

There will be a 3-day pre-sale for members only on UCdecksales before we launch the KS campaign. A total of 250 decks of the Dondorf #1000 Centennial Jubilee restoration project will be available there, except for the up to 100 pre-sale.

The & 180 price includes the player's deck, but you will need to add $10 for shipping. On KS it will be $130 total. Limit one set for the pre-sale and two on KS.

Specifics and more details will be posted in a few days, no more than a week, now.

Mike, don't you mean $100? I know shipping is $10.

Thanks.

Mike Ratledge wrote:

TwoPieceFeed wrote:Mike - Will you clarify something for me, please?

Initially I was under the impression that if you spent $120 during this pre-sale that you would receive a total of 4 decks:

X1 Restoration Green Back Gilded
X1 Restoration Orange Back Gilded
X1 "Gothic" Green Back Players
X1 "Gothic" Orange Back Players

Re-reading last night it seems like the $120 (including shipping) will include 2 decks total:

X1 Restoration Green Back Gilded
X1 "Gothic" Orange Back Players

(I may have the colors mixed up here.) Can you clarify the total amount of different decks being produced here?

For those on the edge of supporting this printing and with a budget to allocate, like myself, this could make a big difference.

Thank you in advance!

Well, I might have posted confusing things, but there has never been more than two varieties, originally it was only the gold-bordered back version (now the "fully restored" one), limited to 250 copies. I manged to talk Cartamundi into letting me do up to 250 more with the orange-tone back border but they want me only to sell that player's deck with the main restoration version. It won't be gilded, it will have a plain tuck, not faux leather with the gold "buckle" device. Note that the pictures I have shown makes it look like real leather and a gold emblem in the original, but it is fake leather with an embossed gold symbol stamped onto the box, not actually a separate buckle. I will attach a pix of the OG box.

2017-01-19 02.05.29.jpg

I think it was a combination of starting the thread prior to all details being ironed out (not a criticism - I like being informed about projects prior to the pre-order or release date) and hope. I was hoping/thinking it was both decks remastered and gilded.

Unfortunately I'll have to pass, as I'm not into restorations, and despite being one of Lotrek's biggest fans. Some other lucky person will reap these rewards! Possibly THE best restoration project and with one of the best card artists. Great collaboration, Mike.

RichK wrote:

Mike Ratledge wrote:The & 180 price includes the player's deck, but you will need to add $10 for shipping. On KS it will be $130 total. Limit one set for the pre-sale and two on KS.

Specifics and more details will be posted in a few days, no more than a week, now.

Mike, don't you mean $100? I know shipping is $10.

Thanks.

Shipping is $5 for the pre-sale. Go figure that I got everything right but that. It should be $105 - fixed...

I never really expected it to be for everyone, no doubt.

OK, I went ahead and put 85 sets in stock on UCdecksales. They can be backed until 10PM Eastern/NYC time the day before we launch the Kickstarter campaign. I expect to see the launch on Saturday April 15th, though it might slip to the 22nd.

Remember - this is a CrowdFunded deck, and I have not figured out what the expected delivery date is yet, but just to be safe here I will say October. I hope to beat that date, but I don't want you expecting it earlier.

In exchange for the votes of confidence, you will get serial numbers 11 and up in the order received. It is as noted above $105 including worldwide shipping for the complete set.including two decks, the full restoration and the ungilded player's deck.

They will be $130 from Kickstarter. I can only sell one per member at that price.

Mike Ratledge wrote:OK, I went ahead and put 85 sets in stock on UCdecksales. They can be backed until 10PM Eastern/NYC time the day before we launch the Kickstarter campaign. I expect to see the launch on Saturday April 15th, though it might slip to the 22nd.

Do you have a direct link to them cause I'm not seeing them. Or am I confused and they're not up just yet?

Mike Ratledge wrote:OK, I went ahead and put 85 sets in stock on UCdecksales. They can be backed until 10PM Eastern/NYC time the day before we launch the Kickstarter campaign. I expect to see the launch on Saturday April 15th, though it might slip to the 22nd.

Remember - this is a CrowdFunded deck, and I have not figured out what the expected delivery date is yet, but just to be safe here I will say October. I hope to beat that date, but I don't want you expecting it earlier.

In exchange for the votes of confidence, you will get serial numbers 11 and up in the order received. It is as noted above $105 including worldwide shipping for the complete set.including two decks, the full restoration and the ungilded player's deck.

They will be $130 from Kickstarter. I can only sell one per member at that price.

OK. I've decided. I passed on a few Kickstarter projects to justify this one. I'm dropping the $105 including worldwide shipping. However, I looked on UCdecksales and I don't see the deck listed. Will be watching this space for more information.

I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.

dcmcalirep wrote:I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.

Thanks. That did it!

1x Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration for $105.00 each

Me too, how come they are being pre-sold so suddenly?

Enviado desde mi Aquaris_M4.5 mediante Tapatalk

Thank you to those who already backed this project! You will be receiving Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration sets with numbers in the low "teens", and I am humbled by your faith in this endeavor.

I knew this would come up, so let me explain how we arrived at the price: we have to have $100 per set to even break even, and the fact is that I want to keep a little bit in the tank to help jump start future restoration projects. Using PayPal, Shopify payments (and Stripe on KS) we get about 90-95% of the actual amount pledged. For Shopify & PayPal outside KS it amounts to $101.65 after they take their discount for domestic / US backers and only $100.08 if you are overseas. Once we get to Kickstarter, out of $130 we get about $117. That alone was reason enough to push the price up $13. Now, KS isn't exactly that, I am sure someone will point out, but if you only get the main deck there we get $99 for US backers and about $98 overseas. I am not making a bunch of money here.

We have not nailed down anything specific, but I am looking at decks like the original Orient Express and "Four Seasons" - both of which have the old style 3/4 perspective courts. Two distinct avenues exist, one with other beautiful Dondorf decks made for the Danish market in the early 1900's like the Saks & Co deck, Le Hombre, Luxeskarte, etc. The other I already mentioned, and would involve trying to get licenses from other companies. I would love to hear suggestions, but realize that some of them might be impossible to get the rights to do.

Working on the last few remaining details, I figured out a possible way for both decks to be gilded, although the Player's deck would be the "flash" method where they heat copper-aluminum foil and instantly blast it onto the edges of the decks. It might even end up with a slightly different gilded look, but anyone who has seen a Congress #606 deck made since the 1930's knows that they look to be gilded with real gold. I can't promise that yet, but I do see a potential way to get there. That second deck would still be a "whole other animal" when compared to the restoration. We're looking at 330gsm German made casino quality black core paper bond/stock, and likely both decks will use similar paper.

I will detail more as the Kickstarter campaign launch gets closer.

Mike Ratledge wrote:Thank you to those who already backed this project! You will be receiving Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration sets with numbers in the low "teens", and I am humbled by your faith in this endeavor.

I knew this would come up, so let me explain how we arrived at the price: we have to have $100 per set to even break even, and the fact is that I want to keep a little bit in the tank to help jump start future restoration projects. Using PayPal, Shopify payments (and Stripe on KS) we get about 90-95% of the actual amount pledged. For Shopify & PayPal outside KS it amounts to $101.65 after they take their discount for domestic / US backers and only $100.08 if you are overseas. Once we get to Kickstarter, out of $130 we get about $117. That alone was reason enough to push the price up $13. Now, KS isn't exactly that, I am sure someone will point out, but if you only get the main deck there we get $99 for US backers and about $98 overseas. I am not making a bunch of money here.

We have not nailed down anything specific, but I am looking at decks like the original Orient Express and "Four Seasons" - both of which have the old style 3/4 perspective courts. Two distinct avenues exist, one with other beautiful Dondorf decks made for the Danish market in the early 1900's like the Saks & Co deck, Le Hombre, Luxeskarte, etc. The other I already mentioned, and would involve trying to get licenses from other companies. I would love to hear suggestions, but realize that some of them might be impossible to get the rights to do.

It's my hope there could be some really, really plain & cheap display decks along with the Cadillac version. Perhaps the 250 print run is a tad too small.

What I don't understand is the license fees. Aren't really old decks out of copyright?

TGunitedcardists wrote:It's my hope there could be some really, really plain & cheap display decks along with the Cadillac version. Perhaps the 250 print run is a tad too small.

What I don't understand is the license fees. Aren't really old decks out of copyright?

You know that I had hoped to be able to do them less expensively and sell them outside of the main project without the fancy restoration deck, let's say for around $10 anyway.

I had to agree to baby steps this time. No matter what I claim or show the marketing people for - in this case Cartamundi - they want to see me walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

We absolutely WILL do exactly that, and hopefully we can get less restricted terms in the future, but for now originally I only got permission to do 250 decks total, and only by showing my cards I was able to convince them to let me add 250 Player's decks.

That number of decks just isn't enough to get the price down to a reasonable amount. I expect that the Player's decks will cost $8 without gilding. That's not a lot of leeway when I only have 250 to work with. It also doesn't include anything else, licensing or other fees, which I am trying to bury in the main 250 decks.

We'll see, moving forward, but the absolute best thing that can happen for the future success of this outstanding first attempt is for it to sell out and have people wanting more - way more. That's why I am so picky about how it is done, and hopefully it will get us to that next level. I can't possibly predict exactly where this will go, but my hopes are that I can do more in the near future. If it's truly successful I hope to be able to make at least 500 of future restoration decks. I have to be careful, if they become commodities instead of true novelties, they could end up being unworthy or unwanted. Maybe we can get to 1000? That's the upper limit in my mind, at least for the true restoration decks.

Mike Ratledge wrote: You know that I had hoped to be able to do them less expensively and sell them outside of the main project without the fancy restoration deck, let's say for around $10 anyway.

I had to agree to baby steps this time. No matter what I claim or show the marketing people for - in this case Cartamundi - they want to see me walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

We absolutely WILL do exactly that, and hopefully we can get less restricted terms in the future, but for now originally I only got permission to do 250 decks total, and only by showing my cards I was able to convince them to let me add 250 Player's decks.

That number of decks just isn't enough to get the price down to a reasonable amount. I expect that the Player's decks will cost $8 without gilding. That's not a lot of leeway when I only have 250 to work with. It also doesn't include anything else, licensing or other fees, which I am trying to bury in the main 250 decks.

We'll see, moving forward, but the absolute best thing that can happen for the future success of this outstanding first attempt is for it to sell out and have people wanting more - way more. That's why I am so picky about how it is done, and hopefully it will get us to that next level. I can't possibly predict exactly where this will go, but my hopes are that I can do more in the near future. If it's truly successful I hope to be able to make at least 500 of future restoration decks. I have to be careful, if they become commodities instead of true novelties, they could end up being unworthy or unwanted. Maybe we can get to 1000? That's the upper limit in my mind, at least for the true restoration decks.

This is excellent news and information. I love old decks. The cheaper prices for the non-fancy versions are most welcome. Good news on the horizon. Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.

Lead the ship!

dcmcalirep wrote:I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.

"Dondorf" works, also.

I want to keep this for UC members, so I didn't link it to the Decks for Sale group - yet:

https://ucdecksales.com/products/dondor ... estoration

It must be not too hard to find, because the "teens" are taken, except for one, I think.

Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.

Got one. Thanks Mike!

Great Lakes Cards wrote:Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.

If ever there was a deck with a story, this is it. I detailed it partially in the first couple of posts. I am looking for the booklet (likely only in German?) that came with these or maybe with the German reprint. I want to complete the picture, and include it with the restoration set. I have found most of the small things included in the OG set, but I don't have that.

Mike Ratledge wrote:

Great Lakes Cards wrote:Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.

If ever there was a sec with a story, this is it. I detailed it partially in the first couple of posts. I am looking for the booklet (likely only in German?) that came with these or maybe with the German reprint. I want to complete the picture, and include it with the restoration set. I have found most of the small things included in the OG set, but I don't have that.

I'm getting the German reprint soon, so I'll let you know. I'll also look into it on the web.

Enviado desde mi Aquaris_M4.5 mediante Tapatalk

I won't repeat it because it is in my signature block, but Kickstarter launch has been determined. Almost 25% of the UC member pre-sale are already sold within less than 24 hours of me unlocking the inventory of 85 (serial numbers 11-95) sets that are available to you for $25 less than the Kickstarter campaign price. Both decks, full restoration and "Player's Deck", worldwide shipping included.

Nice to see this project on track. I just recieved a German replica of the decks, unfortunately without a booklet. The cards are very nice and handle well, thy even have metallic gold ink on the borders, courts and backs (which are good looking as well, even if they aren't the originals).

Each deck, red and blue, came with three identical jokers.

Apparently B.Dondorf did a lot of decks using chromolithography, but this was their most luxurious. They also printed banknotes, business cards, luxury papers, etc. They started printing playing cards in 1840. 1872 Bernhard Dondorf passed on the business to the next generation. During the first World War and the hyperinflation period the German card industry boomed. It suffered severly in the following years and 1929 the Grandson of B. Dondorf was forced to sell the company. The 100 year Dondorf palying cards mark the pinnacle of chromolithography playig cards as these started to be substituted by offsetprinting.

I've seen on a site that the deck came with one card explaining the rules of a game (it was a scanned picture but the card was unreadable), does anybody own an original to confirm this?

One of the few concessions that I made is to print two slightly different Jokers, since certain contemporary games require they are distinct. It won't be much, maybe a little red on one that's easily noticed. The card you are talking about is likely the other concession (not in the restoration), a card with the point scores for bridge in German. I have one, let me see if I have a pix. (didn't find on my phone, likely to be on the laptop)

Something happened when I started using tapatalk, is it posssible to merge the pablo and pablo 19 usernames?

I've searched for some of the people that appear on the cards, here is my not very comprehensive and not 100% correct (some should be clearly correct while others involved some guessing) all characters are somehow related to Thüringen and the Wartburg:

-Queen of clubs on the left: Maria Pavlovna of Russia

-Jack of diamonds ont he left: konrad von thüringen, or ludwig I von thüringen

-Jack of diamonds center: Wolfgang von Eschenbach or Walter von der Vogelweide

-Queen of hearts left: Wolfgang von Eschenbach or Walter von der Vogelweide

-King of spades right: Martin luther

-Queen of diamonds left: Elisabeth of hungary

-Queen of spades left: Ludwig der springer (i.e. Louis the jumper)

-Card back & Jack of clubs center: Ludwig der eiserne (i.e. Louis of iron)

-King of spades: Friedrich ludwig jahn

-Jack of spades left and right: Heinrich III (meissen) and on the left the boy with the horse as depicted in codex manesse.

I'll update the list when I have some more time.

Ref: merging two user posts, not really do-able, although I suppose with a great deal of effort you can change ownership for individual messages. Unfortunately there are already 19 for this secondary account.

What happened?

I haven't been able to locate the booklet, but a part of it is contained in "Die Dondorf'schen Luxus-Spielkarten" by Detlef Hoffmann and Margot Dietrich, proving that I did get some of the characters right.
Maybe it would be possible to conctact the authors to supplement the KS page or a booklet (if budget allows) for these cards, using their text and/or the text from the booklet?

Here is a brief preview/translation of text from the accompanying booklet, I'll post a complete translation soon:
"[The artist] had, after all, adorned the back of the cards with the illustration of the Wartburg and anchored the theme of this deck in the heart of German landscapes; there, were more than one german figure would arise to great heights, whether we think of Saint Elisabeth or Martin Luther, Walther von der Vogelweide and Wolfram von Eschenbach or the artwork of Richard Wagner [...]"

A couple more fully restored cards:

Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!