Bicycle Asylum

[BMPokerworld]

This is exactly why we don't pledge for Kickstarter projects. I don't want to deal with people who have no control of their money and not enough resources to run their businesses without spending trust fund money. More BS as usual. It seems like for every successful project on Kickstarter, there is one bad one.

Thanks!

[BMPokerworld]

Sorry for the double post, but shit like this really pisses me off. They can't have things both ways. They want to portray they are like IBM with a zillion people working for them and that is why they were "unaware" the funds were used for a so called "Other project". But then they want you to wait until they get more money. If they were that big they would have the money to replenish the missing money and if they are small, the money couldn't have been "Used" for another project.

What actually happened? Did Ed spend the money with his left hand and not tell the right hand he did? This is, I am sure, a one man operation. Just pathetic.

Thanks!

[Paul Middleton]

This is exactly why we don't pledge for Kickstarter projects. I don't want to deal with people who have no control of their money and not enough resources to run their businesses without spending trust fund money. More BS as usual. It seems like for every successful project on Kickstarter, there is one bad one.

Thanks!

Unfortunately it goes completely against the spirit of Kickstarter too. It's in their (KS) best interests to vet the projects better in my opinion. I know of a couple of people who were big-time backers of a lot of different projects (decks and otherwise) who are scaling down due to constant issues and poor communication.

There's nothing wrong with a one-man operation (i do 90% of the work myself) until you try and appear otherwise.

[BMPokerworld]

JPMiddleton wrote

There's nothing wrong with a one-man operation (i do 90% of the work myself) until you try and appear otherwise.

I 100% agree.

Thanks!

[Strag]

Pathetic and disgusting post.

As someone posted in the comments on KS:

"The Tennessee Attorney General's Office protects consumers and businesses from those who engage in unfair or deceptive business practices." http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/cpro/ ... sumer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tennessee BBB: http://nashville.bbb.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Altius Management
1102 17th Avenue South
Suite 303
Nashville, TN 37212
(615) 369-7725 Nashville
(646) 998-8095 NYC
(818) 478-2845 LA
FAX: (615) 369-8062

[BMPokerworld]

Pathetic and disgusting post.

As someone posted in the comments on KS:

"The Tennessee Attorney General's Office protects consumers and businesses from those who engage in unfair or deceptive business practices." http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/cpro/ ... sumer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Tennessee BBB: http://nashville.bbb.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Altius Management
1102 17th Avenue South
Suite 303
Nashville, TN 37212
(615) 369-7725 Nashville
(646) 998-8095 NYC
(818) 478-2845 LA
FAX: (615) 369-8062

Maybe if they didn't have to pay for all those phone numbers, they would have enough to pay for the project.

Thanks!

[badpete69]

A lot of us got this through email this morning...It was followed by a reply from an attorney with instructions

Greetings,
My name is Milan Colovic, and I'm designer of Asylum Cards.
I felt free to send personal mails to few of you guys/gals, because I want to hear your opinion, and I think you deserve the truth about Asylum project. Hope you don't mind I used your personal email addresses. I intentionally sent you group email, because I don't want any intrigues or collusions, feel free to conclude others in your reply mails to me, if that suites you. Most of you I chose by comments which you left after last Ed's update, and some of us were great support during the campaign. All of you seems like reasonable people, and I hope any of you won't use other people addresses in any inappropriate purpose. Thanks.
More than a year ago, in my head was born idea of "Asylum products". Cards should be just intro in line of weird product, and I decided to go with them first, as they were easiest for production. Kickstarter seemed like great opportunity for unknown artists, and practically only solution for gathering the funds.
However, since I was not eligible to start project myself, because I'm not USA citizen, and I don't have US social number, etc., I had to find partner who will be mediator in this project. Logical solution where to find him was Elance, because I worked through that website as freelancer for years. Adrian Maddock posted comment with link of my profile, and as you can see best way of my self-promotion and verification of my professionalism are reviews from former clients.
Be sure that entire Asylum project was completely designed, and carefully financially planned, before I even start to looking for partner. In July of last year, actually. I calculated prices of shipping, contacted USPCC, even some companies for handling and shipping. I just needed someone who would open the account and start the project. I've got several proposals on Elance, and however this sounds absurd right now, Ed's portfolio looked the most promising at the time.
After all promises, as soon we signed the contract, this guy starting to neglect me and project. He should do the marketing campaign, he didn't. He should design a website, he didn't do that. Week, after week past, and few similar KS projects appeared on KS (right before Halloween). I decided we should go without any website or appropriate pre-campaign marketing, because we simply wouldn't stand a chance with all that competition if we delay some more.
Ed didn't respect his part of the deal regards the marketing and campaign. He hasn't open facebook profile for first two weeks, even. My response wasn't indicator of my naivety, I simply tried to find understanding for his busyness. He presented himself to me as president of serious management firm with serious clients, and staff, who would successfully do the shipping and handling, which would lower the costs significantly. Of course, he mentioned his Hollywood connections, showed me few "very serious" clients, etc.. I supposed that this is very small project for him, and that's why he neglecting it a little bit.
As the campaign go on, it was harder to catch him. We lost a lot of money because he simply didn't find time to answer on questions of backers. But money is not important right now, we succeed to raise more than enough money to complete the project. After campaign ended, I set the art for chips with the guys who should produce them. I finished the custom art pieces, collectible cards, certificates (basically everything with my sign on it), and along with signed sketches sent him that material to Altius HQ, in November. He assured me that he is negotiations with USPCC (I set the art with USPCC month earlier, but he is the one who had to sign the contracts, because he owns bank account, and funds). After that he started to ignoring me, and I knew that something isn't all right. I couldn't catch him in a weeks. He ignored my emails, he never was logged in on Skype profile, etc.
Further on, I was informed as much as you guys... At least, from time to time he uploaded an update to you, but I was ignored all that time. I'm devastated. For years I worked on promoting my art, with bunch of great clients and wonderful people I've met, and then this guy started to screw with my name, nerves, and artwork. You can think how much effort and time I spent on creating this. I'm desperate.
Material which he showed on photos in update #19 is material which I sent him in November. It was paid from my pocket, my personal funds, and shipped to USA with my personal budget. Paper sheet with printed cards is just hard copy proof which USPCC sent to him as approval of colors and printing quality, before they start with printing. I don't know does they printed the cards and boxes. But I'm pretty skeptical about it. I set the art with USPCC, but then they started to negotiate with NASH, because he is the one who signing the contract and paying.
This should be easy-to-produce product, Nash just should place his sign on several documents, make few transactions, and collect his 50%.
I'm not paid for this, but that is not the matter, right now. He practically stole my art, and embezzled the funds. And what is the most devastating, he ignores me. That is the most irritating part. I would more appreciate straight "OK I scammed you, naive idiot" answer, but what really killing me is this non-existence of communication. For the God's sake, I created and designed all of this.
I'm ashamed by possibility that my name could be implicated and connected to any kind of scam, even if haven't participate in it. I'm living and paying the bills from freelancing, I don't need this kind of reputation. My name is on that tuck box, and my sign is on that artwork. I don't want this kind of "advertisement". I don't want my loyal clients to see this.
I'm not writing this to you, to be pathetic, and because I want compassion. Although, I appreciate you support. I just wanted to say -I have contract with this guy, but it's pretty formal, and practically my hands are tied, here across the ocean. Court responsible for the contract is located in USA (that is stated in contract itself), and you can think how expensive and complicated would be to start a law suit from the country, which even not in the Europe Union.
However, If any of you (or the group of you) USA citizens is willing to start a law suit against this guy, he would have my fully support. I'm not greedy idiot, I just want to see this project fulfilled, and my 50% royalties paid. I don't want to sue this guy's ass of, even he deserved it, for treating us this way. Just to get what is rightfully your, and what's rightfully mine. I'm even willing to share part of authorization of rights to my artwork with some of you, to settle this as it should be.
This is shame for the KS itself, afterall. Nash spoils the oportunity for many of us who have ideas, but not the money to bring them to life.
I hope you will understand why I wasn't go to public with this. I'm avoiding turbulence. And until I determine and consult with you what to do, I would appreciate to keep it that way. I hoped that this guy would come to common sense, after all these comments. Actually, I'm not in position to threat him publicly. For now I have the password to KS account, but he can easily change it, I won't have access to public message board. I don't want to be paranoid, but that way he could easily write rubbish, in my name. After all this, I have no doubts that he could do that.So, i would appreciate your discretion regards this.
I'm living from art, and for me bad marketing is the much worst scenario than unpaid fee.
However, I'm totally desperate by all comments, and how this turned out, I thought you deserve the truth.
Please excuse on my awful English, I'm pretty eloquent bastard on Serbian, but English is not my native language.
Sincerely,
Milan Colovic

[MagikFingerz]

Wow. Just wow. This is why kickstarter shouldn't be used as an online store for preorders. Preventive measures should be in place to avoid shit like this happening.

[Paul Middleton]

Wow. Just wow. This is why kickstarter shouldn't be used as an online store for preorders. Preventive measures should be in place to avoid shit like this happening.

I haven't really backed many projects to be honest, but isn't there a way of reporting this kind of thing?

[Atemus]

There is actually a major problem with international creators going through intermediaries to use kickstarter. Which I feel shouldn't be allowed, it's just finding a loophole around a rules that is there to protect backers.

[walrus]

Wow, if all that is true which appears to be the case I feel bad for this guy. I may give up KS for good this time. KS appears to have a hands off attitude in scam projects.

[Oswin]

Due to many projects who I'm be fooled same as a sh**t... I've cancel all my backed projetc who's run actually !

It's a shame to see Asylum, Army, MD-Pen, Core and Ultraviolet and the last sh**t of Galaxy Cards, enough is enough !

[walrus]

Due to many projects who I'm be fooled same as a sh**t... I've cancel all my backed projetc who's run actually !

It's a shame to see Asylum, Army, MD-Pen, Core and Ultraviolet and the last sh**t of Galaxy Cards, enough is enough !

I agree, it is a shame those projects ruin it for the honest ones. On a positive note Bmpokerworld usually has all the completed KS decks.

[volantangel]

OKKKK THIS IS DAMN SCREWED UP IF THIS IS TRUE

[badpete69]

There has been about another 6 emails since mostly from the attorney. What a saga hehehe. I better kiss my big fat $8 good bye

[volantangel]

There has been about another 6 emails since mostly from the attorney. What a saga hehehe. I better kiss my big fat $8 good bye

Makes for some pretty good drama i must say, thankfully im not a backer even though i was reallyyy tempted at that point of time, do keep us updated!

[badpete69]

And the sage continues. Got about 20 emails today from different people on this

Just posted now

Backers,

Again, we know you're upset with the timetable. Like every project on Kickstarter, your investment requires a degree of blind faith. We can assure you, with the only thing we have - our word, that you are not the victim of fraud or any illegal activity. To support our earlier message, and put to rest some of your concerns, please consider the following bullet points:

- There are many costs associated with this project. Some were unforeseen, and cash flow problems occurred. We apologize for this. We will not get into specifics about this so please do not continue to ask for detailed business operations information.

- The artwork was ordered and the playing cards have been created. Funding for the release of these is one of the issues we are dealing with. Please do not make assumptions about how the funding of the kickstarter project and the timetable do not line up. We understand they don't. The specifics of those problems are an internal issue of our firm.

- Neither the artist NOR Altius Management has profited from this projected yet, so please refrain from assuming any business arrangements such as ownership or rights of the art.

- My personal information is just that. Personal. I have been doing business under the name Ed Nash for over 15 years, and that is not exclusive to this project. But it's important you remember that Altius Management is a firm, and I represent that firm. The firm does not represent me. I ask you to separate the professional and personal. – Ed Nash

- We are currently in the process of working out a deal which will hopefully enable us to ship you some degree of the project. This may include a single deck of cards and/or some digital artwork. This is a gesture of good faith towards our loyal backers and because we want you to know that this project will be completed and has not been abandoned in any way.

- Inquiries for specific details, copies of contracts, etc. will not be honored, as these are confidential documents crucial to our business.

- Please keep things in perspective. We realize this project has been unacceptable and we expect a certain degree of dissatisfaction. But let's not blow things out of proportion. If the accusations of "scam" and "fraud" were accurate, you would not be hearing from us at all. This communication only serves one purpose to us - to inform you of our good intentions and to humbly ask your patience and forgiveness for a job poorly executed.

[BMPokerworld]

And the sage continues. Got about 20 emails today from different people on this

Just posted now

Backers,

Again, we know you're upset with the timetable. Like every project on Kickstarter, your investment requires a degree of blind faith. We can assure you, with the only thing we have - our word, that you are not the victim of fraud or any illegal activity. To support our earlier message, and put to rest some of your concerns, please consider the following bullet points:

- There are many costs associated with this project. Some were unforeseen, and cash flow problems occurred. We apologize for this. We will not get into specifics about this so please do not continue to ask for detailed business operations information.

- The artwork was ordered and the playing cards have been created. Funding for the release of these is one of the issues we are dealing with. Please do not make assumptions about how the funding of the kickstarter project and the timetable do not line up. We understand they don't. The specifics of those problems are an internal issue of our firm.

- Neither the artist NOR Altius Management has profited from this projected yet, so please refrain from assuming any business arrangements such as ownership or rights of the art.

- My personal information is just that. Personal. I have been doing business under the name Ed Nash for over 15 years, and that is not exclusive to this project. But it's important you remember that Altius Management is a firm, and I represent that firm. The firm does not represent me. I ask you to separate the professional and personal. – Ed Nash

- We are currently in the process of working out a deal which will hopefully enable us to ship you some degree of the project. This may include a single deck of cards and/or some digital artwork. This is a gesture of good faith towards our loyal backers and because we want you to know that this project will be completed and has not been abandoned in any way.

- Inquiries for specific details, copies of contracts, etc. will not be honored, as these are confidential documents crucial to our business.

- Please keep things in perspective. We realize this project has been unacceptable and we expect a certain degree of dissatisfaction. But let's not blow things out of proportion. If the accusations of "scam" and "fraud" were accurate, you would not be hearing from us at all. This communication only serves one purpose to us - to inform you of our good intentions and to humbly ask your patience and forgiveness for a job poorly executed.

Funny how he has seemed to change his tune now that a lawyer is getting involved.

" and cash flow problems occurred." Translation: He spent the money for this project on something else.

Thanks!

[badpete69]

Well said Mike...By the way this is for all that have not received any of the emails on Kickstarter. yes the emails are true and legit. Jesse Fowler stop doubting I meant $9 pledge not 8 that was a typo hehehe

Latest notes from Milan

Good thing:

I still haven't been cut off the project (not directly, at least) - Ed haven't changed the password, yet.
Bad things:

Ed still didn't tried to contact me at all. Another update in which he said nothing.
Lawrence got material for prosecution - and no, I haven't made agreement with "Ed Nash" personally, as he said. In first line of contract as "party who is receiving right to use licensed property" was stated "Altius Management". And he signed it as "Ed nash, president". So, it's another lie.

Along with the contract between Altius and me, I uploaded email copies and PDF proofs that art production was created on time, and arranged with production firms on time. Ed just had to sign contracts with them and put his signature on contracts. After payment, production would start immediately. I haven't seen any of these signed contracts. Don't know if they exist, at all.
I've just have drafts which I arranged with USPCC.
Thanks everyone for support through the comments.
What's your opinion regards this? Should I risk the possession of password, and place comments directly on public board, asking for explanation from Ed, so all backers could see it? Asking him why I'm ignored at first place?
Should we send invitations to the "base camp" to all of backers?
Lawrence, you are probably the most competent regards this "tactics"...
Thanks,
Milan




and

Well, yesterday I sent mail with explanation, only to the 34 people who left comments on KS board, that morning...
I think that others maybe deserve to know what's happening

[DukeBoy]

So even though they say they are 7+ months out from delivery they are asking for survays and only requesting address info??

[Fluffykitten]

Due to many projects who I'm be fooled same as a sh**t... I've cancel all my backed projetc who's run actually !

It's a shame to see Asylum, Army, MD-Pen, Core and Ultraviolet and the last sh**t of Galaxy Cards, enough is enough !

I agree, it is a shame those projects ruin it for the honest ones. On a positive note Bmpokerworld usually has all the completed KS decks.

Is that the only retailer that carries post kickstarter decks? I think post army men I will stick to those that have done at least 3 projects and delivered. So I figure i'll have a list of 3-5 retailers to buy these decks from.

It's also no just not delivering some projects have delivered but everything I read says the quality is poor that sucks too.

[badpete69]

So even though they say they are 7+ months out from delivery they are asking for survays and only requesting address info??

Yeah i saw that today..My guess is that they will send 1 deck to some people and try to say it was in good faith

[vmagic]

the1eyedjack.com also sells some kickstarter decks

[BMPokerworld]

So even though they say they are 7+ months out from delivery they are asking for survays and only requesting address info??

Yeah i saw that today..My guess is that they will send 1 deck to some people and try to say it was in good faith

It doesn't make sense to only send one deck. Why not send them all? It isn't like you can print just one deck.

Thanks!

[badpete69]

Yeah I agree Mike...I was just quoting from his post

We are currently in the process of working out a deal which will hopefully enable us to ship you some degree of the project. This may include a single deck of cards and/or some digital artwork. This is a gesture of good faith towards our loyal backers and because we want you to know that this project will be completed and has not been abandoned in any way.

[BMPokerworld]

Yeah I agree Mike...I was just quoting from his post

We are currently in the process of working out a deal which will hopefully enable us to ship you some degree of the project. This may include a single deck of cards and/or some digital artwork. This is a gesture of good faith towards our loyal backers and because we want you to know that this project will be completed and has not been abandoned in any way.

The problems is if they are only shipping a single deck to each person, then they might not end up being made by USPCC or they may really have less money than we thought, if they can't pay for shipping everything out.

Thanks!

[badpete69]

Latest Update on KS

Update on Asylum Playing Card Project

Update #24 - For backers only · Jul 13, 2013 · 8 comments
To the Asylum Playing Card backers,

As posted multiple times before, this severely delayed project WILL be fulfilled in its entirety. Regardless of the updates that we post, there are several backers who constantly feel the need to incite others and make public accusations of fraud or theft, none of which are true.

The playing cards have been printed by Bicycle and we are getting closer to being able to fully fulfill this project. The complaints to the Better Business Bureau and complaints filed against us in regards to this project are only delaying us further, as we then have to take the time to respond to each of these that is received.

To the backers who have reached out and have expressed understanding and patience, we appreciate that very much. We look forward to fulfilling this project as much as you look forward to receiving the rewards.

Sincerely,

[BMPokerworld]

Latest Update on KS

Update on Asylum Playing Card Project

Update #24 - For backers only · Jul 13, 2013 · 8 comments
To the Asylum Playing Card backers,

As posted multiple times before, this severely delayed project WILL be fulfilled in its entirety. Regardless of the updates that we post, there are several backers who constantly feel the need to incite others and make public accusations of fraud or theft, none of which are true.

The playing cards have been printed by Bicycle and we are getting closer to being able to fully fulfill this project. The complaints to the Better Business Bureau and complaints filed against us in regards to this project are only delaying us further, as we then have to take the time to respond to each of these that is received.

To the backers who have reached out and have expressed understanding and patience, we appreciate that very much. We look forward to fulfilling this project as much as you look forward to receiving the rewards.

Sincerely,

Well if the cards were actually printed and he is waiting for them, answering all the complaints from the better business bureau and others, really can't be slowing down the project since he isn't actually doing anything at this point anyway, right?

Thanks!

[Strag]

Just wanted to resurrect this thread with a major bit of news. The State of Washington attorney general has filed suit against Ed Nash!

http://atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id ... 2OgazdW5LM

[volantangel]

Now when are they going to do this for the founders scam