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Like I always say, having alternate tucks benefits everyone. If you don't like the deck or the price, don't buy it. People will spend whatever if they really want it whether they agree with price or not.

Bikefanatic wrote:Like I always say, having alternate tucks benefits everyone. If you don't like the deck or the price, don't buy it. People will spend whatever if they really want it whether they agree with price or not.

This is not entirely true, as you know there some fellows who need to get them all, and most of time this is not a rational decision is an impulse, and I believe that louizz targets these people.

Let me explain:

louizz wrote: [...] Tuck swaps are the same thing, and typically have more bells and whistles then the standards. [...]

This couldn't be more far from the truth, in the specific case of this creator, if you go back and check all his projects the only thing that those tuck swaps raised was the price.
Vikings:
Standard decks: Custon die-cut embossing - $12
Limited / special tuck swaps: downgrade, no embossing no die-cut - $15 and $18

Made:
Standard decks: Foil - $12
Special / Limited tuck swap: Embossind and foil (and a coin!) - $18
Different deck: recolored and some new faces(?) no embossing or foil - $15 (pretty good since there were just 2500 (1250+1250))

Feudal (I'm still waiting for my order so I'll have to believe in what's on KS page):
Standard decks: ... - $13
Limited / special tuck swaps: some band (?) arround the deck - $18

Fullmoon (Still waiting for my order):
Standard deck: nothing special - $13
Special edition tuck swap: lenticular lens - $17
Limited Edition tuck swap: lenticular lens, foil (?) and a band (?) - $20!!

So I don't see how this benefits anyone else other than the creator. Although I don't see any problem in doing this I also have the right to express my opinion and if I think that having multiple tuck swaps is a bad thing I'm free to express my feelings that way, if you get too touchy about this then maybe you should stop doing this, or at least stand your position with the true porpouse of doing this (making extra money without too much work, which is something acceptable for me) and not came here playing the poor guy that no one understands.

Sorry for bringing this up but I had to speak what I though, I was burned by the Viking King special edition and that may have been the spark that started this all!

I guess I am part of a minority but I like many (not all) of the tuck swaps. Great tucks are one of the reasons I like a deck. This deck is one of those. I love the standard tucks but the LE is stunning. In the end people, myself included, will buy what they see value in. You'd have a hard time selling gold for $2 a pound if people didn't see the value.


I also see no problem with a business seeing a market and catering to it. It's just smart business. I personally don't care for Apple computers and gear but I don't begrudge anyone who sees a value in them and spends their money on Apple. How many people jump to buy a new Iphone when it comes out even though their current Iphone is fine? These people are no more right or wrong than the people who don't jump at every new Iphone and Apple is just being a smart company catering to both.


Not liking tuck swaps is fine. No ones opinion holds more weight than anyone elses. Stating that opinion such as "I don't like tuck swaps and here's why...." is fine but accusations of greed and laziness are speculative and rude not just to the creator but also to those of us who like them.

Just my 2 cents.... YMMV

I think I'm in an even further minority but I couldn't care less about tuck swaps. If I like one, I'll buy it. If not, I won't. And I won't lose sleep over it either. I actually relate it to cars- if a car co. makes a good engine and puts it in a popular model, why can't the same engine go in other models?

It'll be easier just to say most creators are greedy. If so, you buy or not. End of story.

I'm one of those people that's OCD to need to have all decks. I hate it, but I still buy them.

At the end of the day, it's supply and demand. Don't hate the player, hate the game (I sometimes do).

sms69x wrote:

Bikefanatic wrote:Like I always say, having alternate tucks benefits everyone. If you don't like the deck or the price, don't buy it. People will spend whatever if they really want it whether they agree with price or not.

This is not entirely true, as you know there some fellows who need to get them all, and most of time this is not a rational decision is an impulse, and I believe that louizz targets these people.

Let me explain:

louizz wrote: [...] Tuck swaps are the same thing, and typically have more bells and whistles then the standards. [...]

This couldn't be more far from the truth, in the specific case of this creator, if you go back and check all his projects the only thing that those tuck swaps raised was the price.
Vikings:
Standard decks: Custon die-cut embossing - $12
Limited / special tuck swaps: downgrade, no embossing no die-cut - $15 and $18

Made:
Standard decks: Foil - $12
Special / Limited tuck swap: Embossind and foil (and a coin!) - $18
Different deck: recolored and some new faces(?) no embossing or foil - $15 (pretty good since there were just 2500 (1250+1250))

Feudal (I'm still waiting for my order so I'll have to believe in what's on KS page):
Standard decks: ... - $13
Limited / special tuck swaps: some band (?) arround the deck - $18

Fullmoon (Still waiting for my order):
Standard deck: nothing special - $13
Special edition tuck swap: lenticular lens - $17
Limited Edition tuck swap: lenticular lens, foil (?) and a band (?) - $20!!

So I don't see how this benefits anyone else other than the creator. Although I don't see any problem in doing this I also have the right to express my opinion and if I think that having multiple tuck swaps is a bad thing I'm free to express my feelings that way, if you get too touchy about this then maybe you should stop doing this, or at least stand your position with the true porpouse of doing this (making extra money without too much work, which is something acceptable for me) and not came here playing the poor guy that no one understands.

Sorry for bringing this up but I had to speak what I though, I was burned by the Viking King special edition and that may have been the spark that started this all!

I think any even bigger reason for tuck swaps is so that creators don't have to produce more decks and sell you double the decks at the same time. That way instead of selling 1000 out of 2500 on Kickstarter, they sell you 2000 and then they have less to sell later on. I don't see it being much different than when E or CARC have their buy 12 get 1 free deals, it's all about them getting rid of inventory however they can.

And it's ok to have a tuck swap from time to time but to do it with every single project and many times 2 tuck swaps for 1 deck, is a bit much. These are playing cards not comic books.

sms69x, I'm sorry you feel burned about the viking king deck. That's actually one of my favorite tuck box designs. You didn't really give specifics as to what you were expecting, other than that you were "burned by it", so I'm at a loss here. As for you not having received Feudal and Full Moon, Feudal has been done with fulfillment for a quite while now, and if you haven't received them, then something is wrong. I have not received any messages on KS from anyone about not receiving their order. I'm assuming you have not messaged us about it. Have you? Full Moon is recently completed, and I see that you're international, so it's possible that they are stuck in customs somewhere. Did you get a tracking number?

sms69x wrote:This couldn't be more far from the truth, in the specific case of this creator, if you go back and check all his projects the only thing that those tuck swaps raised was the price.

I'm not sure you have this right, and even listed things that DID in fact change, but you *ahem* left somethings out. I think you may be twisting/omitting things in an effort to try to prove your point.

Please, allow me to clarify correctly for you:

Viking:
Standard decks: embossed, diecut, standard seal
Limited and Special Editions: limited availability, hand signed, custom numbered seals

Made:
Standard decks: foil Stamped, no seal
Special Editions: limited availability, foil Stamped, embossed, custom numbered seal, and free numbered coin
Limited Editions: limited availability, new deck, custom numbered seal, and free numbered coin

Feudal:
Standard decks: no additions, standard seal
Limited editions: Crooked Kings belly band, hand signed, hand numbered, metal seal

Full Moon:
Standard decks: no additions, custom seal
Special Editions: limited, availability, lenticular lens tuck, custom seal
Limited Editions: limited availability, lenticular lens tuck, foil stamped, custom seal, Crooked Kings belly band, hand signed, hand numbered, metal seal

40 Years of Fear:
Standard Tuck: no addition, standard seal
Special Edition: limited availability, 360° diecut tuck

As you can see from the above breakdown, the special/limited editions do indeed come with more bells and whistles, so I'm not really sure what you were referring to by saying "this could not be further from the truth, in this creator's case".

sms69x wrote:This is not entirely true, as you know there some fellows who need to get them all, and most of time this is not a rational decision is an impulse, and I believe that louizz targets these people.

I'm not targeting anyone other then playing card collectors as a whole and maybe folks who like the theme I've invested my efforts into. Stating that I'm preying on folks with the pokemon mentality (gotta catch 'em all) is based on nothing, and very presumptuous on your part (especially since you don't know me personally). I have a few friends on here that I have relationships with, and if you took the time to potentially ask some of them, they'd tell you I'm actually a really good guy!

My point is, that you can't fault a casino that people might have gambling problems. They're open to provide folks a good time and entertainment. If someone feels compelled to spend all of their money at a casino, you can't shut down the casino and kill the employees. They provide a service to EVERYONE, not just the select few with an addiction. On that same note, yes- we are a business, and we need to function like one. This includes making money in order to sustain our company and our families. All KS projects are created in order to raise money. We provide a product that people can either buy or not buy. However, we don't create alternate tucks to be "lazy" or "cut corners" but yes, we do make money off of them. However, creating a special tuck typically requires more effort then a standard, AND costs substantially more to produce then the standard decks.

In full disclosure, we often use tuck swaps to attract folks that maybe on the fence because they like the cards but not the standard tuck. This gives us the opportunity to try and grab more backers by offering them an alternative to something the may only be somewhat interested in. Do people often up their pledges? Of course! However, we also see people drop off our projects or do nothing at all when they're released too. It's a catch 22, and you hope it ultimately works out in your favor, but it's never forced down anyone's throat.

We at CKC, love hearing feedback, but I don't like seeing inaccuracies based on assumptions or falsified information being put out there for everyone to consume. My post was not to play the "oh poor me role", but rather an effort to correct a few inaccurate posts. Perhaps this may serve to clarify a few things.

louizz wrote: I have a few friends on here that I have relationships with, and if you took the time to potentially ask some of them, they'd tell you I'm actually a really good guy!

Lies! He's an ass ! LOL


J/K


I really can't believe this conversation has taken over yet another thread.


It can not be any simpler than this statement... If you don't like the extra tucks, don't buy the extra tucks.



And.. why is it when Jackson does it he's a genius (every single Federal 52 deck had a tuckbox swap), but when certain other creators try it they get sh*t on.


Can we get this thread back on track please.


Jay

He seemed to be a pretty funny and down to earth guy. Not the devil in disguise and fulfillment has not been a problem at all.

Jay is 100% right. If you don't like tuck swaps, don't buy them. If you don't want to support a KS because you may possibly pick up a deck a bit cheaper later. So be it. Don't back Kickstarters, because that's always and option. It's always an option with any deck at any time. Things go on "Sale".

These decks are sound and they will either be to your taste or they won't. I like them myself, both decks actually. I think the blue has a unique look to it that will be fun while the red is more traditional and that's never a bad thing for my use. As far as Egyptian themed decks that we've seen recently, these are absolutely among the best designed. Both decks suit my taste just fine.

louizz wrote:sms69x, I'm sorry you feel burned about the viking king deck. That's actually one of my favorite tuck box designs. You didn't really give specifics as to what you were expecting, other than that you were "burned by it", so I'm at a loss here. As for you not having received Feudal and Full Moon, Feudal has been done with fulfillment for a quite while now, and if you haven't received them, then something is wrong. I have not received any messages on KS from anyone about not receiving their order. I'm assuming you have not messaged us about it. Have you? Full Moon is recently completed, and I see that you're international, so it's possible that they are stuck in customs somewhere. Did you get a tracking number?

Not wanting to drag this conversation out of the topic any longer, just want to clarify that I haven't received my Feudal order because my country customs have returned it the first time to the sender without explained me why, but people at CKC have resend it to me, but it got caught again at my customs country and I'm still waiting for it, I've alredy sent the documents they request but still nothing!

My Full moon order is also at my country customs I got the notification a few days ago, so I sent them the documents and now just need to wait, hopefuly I'll get it soon!

sms69x wrote:but people at CKC have resend it to me

So, one last thing here I'd like to point out. You were calling me/CKC greedy- but, we probably paid to ship that back out to you on our dime... I'm just saying.

To be fair Jackson hasn't done many tuck swaps recently, or many at all. I never really the whole idea of a different cheap tuck so that you can open a deck though.

Here it is.

I am eagerly awaiting a pledge level for the Ruby and Sapphire only. I really don't have any interest in the plain tuck boxes. Maybe if they use backerkit I can grab em on the back end by just doing the $2 pledge level. We'll see.

So here it is, without too many surprise, I guess most of us already knew what was comming. I still believe that another one is on the making, watch for it!

SBurk49 wrote:I am eagerly awaiting a pledge level for the Ruby and Sapphire only. I really don't have any interest in the plain tuck boxes. Maybe if they use backerkit I can grab em on the back end by just doing the $2 pledge level. We'll see.

I seriously doubt that you'll be able to get those without buy the standard version, as the creator explained a few posts back, this is his business model, so if you only like the "limited/special" tuck you have to buy them all.

Bikefanatic wrote:The all blue/Sapphire deck is coming next. . . .

Yup it was obvious. Hell, come out with an emerald, topaz and amethyst tuck if you want to. Create many tucks because at the end of the day, it's mostly about delivering what people paid for.

SBurk49 wrote:I am eagerly awaiting a pledge level for the Ruby and Sapphire only. I really don't have any interest in the plain tuck boxes. Maybe if they use backerkit I can grab em on the back end by just doing the $2 pledge level. We'll see.

I couldn't agree more. These tuck cases blow the original ones out of the water. $18 each is still pushing it in my book though.

Special limited decks now available



This awesome set comes with:

2 beautiful display boxes adorned in both Sapphire and Ruby colors
2 custom Crooked Kings hand numbered seals denoting their limited availability
And, both 1 Ruby deck and 1 Sapphire deck

I dropped a 2 deck pledge if anyone was looking for this. The project is ridiculous. Constant upselling.

joeblow wrote:I dropped a 2 deck pledge if anyone was looking for this. The project is ridiculous. Constant upselling.

Did the same myself. Every new version just makes the original decks look more boring. This apparent attempt at emulating Jackson just rubs the wrong way with me.

One could question why Jackson doesn't receive as much criticism. Is it because HIS limited items translate to virtual gold?

I've never been moved by either limited versions to be honest. I mean "a box, with a seal, wrapped in plastic, encased in a box, sealed with whatever". Kind of super overkill if you ask me.

At the very least we can leave the guy alone with his "limited" knick knacks. Everyone else is doing it. And there's obviously a market for it.

You like the design? Pledge for the deck only. You get off on paying for heavily priced Matryoshka decks? Ain't money out my pocket.

Eoghann wrote:One could question why Jackson doesn't receive as much criticism. Is it because HIS limited items translate to virtual gold?

If you go back all the way to the start, Jackson only did the first 4 tuck swaps because there was a request for it, if you recall he came here and asked for our opinion, and it was quite clear, "do it"! After the Federal series he didin't did any tuck swaps that you couldn't get separatelly on his campaigns, not like this where you have to buy the standard even if you're only interested in tuck swap editions...

And about this new Special Edition Collection, how original?!
(only one more deck missing on the campaign)

sms69x wrote: If you go back all the way to the start, Jackson only did the first 4 tuck swaps because there was a request for it.

Kind of my point. People request for these things. I don't care enough to scour the Internet for proof of someone asking CK for a billion tuck swaps in his projects. Maybe there isn't any. Nor should it matter if there is or isn't. What matters is that; original concept or not, people are willing to pay for it. Regardless of the project. He could print baby pjs and beer cozies with scarabs and SOMEONE will buy them!

Why should there be so many standards depending on the project creator?

- If Jackson, Lorenzo, Lotrek, Paul, Randy and UUSI do it..we're ALL over it.
- If a 'smaller' artist does it...he/she is vilified as a greedy, money whore.


I'm not here to defend CK or tuck swaps in general. Personally I'd rather have back those simpler times of standard decks and maybe one limited edition rather than several versions/revivals/revisions and part 2s. Or better yet: a single, all out, bells and whistles up the wazoo deck.

But those days are long gone.

I do agree, if you like it, pledge for it.

Just to explain my own rationale for dropping it though. I like the base deck and even the tuck but I'm also looking for value. The base deck has now dropped in value with all the add-ons. The strategy of limited then more limited add-ons seems to work to some degree but there is a cost that project designers need to be aware of and that's the alienation of the base supporters. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get the base decks in the after-market for a much lower price.

Eoghann wrote:

sms69x wrote: If you go back all the way to the start, Jackson only did the first 4 tuck swaps because there was a request for it.

Kind of my point. People request for these things. I don't care enough to scour the Internet for proof of someone asking CK for a billion tuck swaps in his projects. Maybe there isn't any. Nor should it matter if there is or isn't. What matters is that; original concept or not, people are willing to pay for it. Regardless of the project. He could print baby pjs and beer cozies with scarabs and SOMEONE will buy them!

Why should there be so many standards depending on the project creator?

- If Jackson, Lorenzo, Lotrek, UUSI, Paul do it..we're ALL over it.
- If a 'smaller' artist does it...he/she is vilified as a greedy, money whore.


I'm not here to defend CK or tuck swaps in general. Personally I'd rather have back those simpler times of standard decks and maybe one limited edition rather than several versions/revivals/revisions and part 2s. Or better yet, a single all out, bells and whistles up the wazoo single deck.

But those days are long gone.

Pretty much my thoughts as well.

I added on for both Ruby and Sapphire because they are beautiful decks. I skipped this latest add on because money is tight but truth be told this newest add on didn't do anything for me. It's nice and all but it just didn't turn on my "gotta have it" gene.

For me, each deck is a mini work of art that stands on it's own. That's why I pledge for them in the first place. The contention that the LE's make the originals look plain or bad just doesn't make sense. My Scarlett and Emerald Tally-Ho standard decks are every bit as beautiful as their respective LE's.

Eoghann is right. We all buy what we like and skip what we don't. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion but such negativity divides a community and serves no real purpose other than to justify one persons feelings or actions.

badpete69 wrote:Special limited decks now available



This awesome set comes with:

2 beautiful display boxes adorned in both Sapphire and Ruby colors
2 custom Crooked Kings hand numbered seals denoting their limited availability
And, both 1 Ruby deck and 1 Sapphire deck

Come on bro, atleast create your own fake 3D renderings of your boxes...

Holy crap! Nice catch, Jackson. You can actually see where your seal was Photoshopped.

Ooooooooooh!

HOLY SHI*T!

Jackson, I am TERRIBLY SORRY this happened. One of our folks made this graphic yesterday evening, and clearly, I did not vet this well enough!!!!!! Jesus, this is seriously embarrassing, and I will "handle" the situation with my team.

Again, I am terribly sorry this happened and it's not acceptable. I apologize to everyone here as well.

*BOMB EXPLODES*