Bicycle "The White Rabbit" Deck - Kickstarter Complete

[volantangel]

Max decks/person is 2, you can't be serious.

Yupp, and they are implying that there will be no add-ons, i have a feeling this isnt gonna make it..

Correct me if im wrong, but it does not take $8 + US shipping ($2??) to ship a single deck out to the world right?!?

This deck is absolutely going to make it... I would say in the next few hours... it's already at 28%.

They had one of the most successful KS deck campaigns ever.. and they can lean on those 2200+ backers from the last campaign to make purchase.. which they are.

CBJ

Ah well didnt take that into account, but this ks feels like quite a letdown compared to Cthulhu.

[MagikFingerz]

[Strag]

I really have a feeling this is going to change. First, when they pre-announced this on their other KS, they said there would be two decks (Black deck - Looking Glass, White deck - Rabbit Hole). Right now they are only showing one. Also not allowing add-ons will make this a MUCH smaller KS than before, smaller than I think they realize.

Basically last time they did so many add-ons it got out of hand and took them forever to sync with all the suppliers and ship on time. Obviously they want to lessen the shipping load or maybe even farm it out which is why shipping costs are so much higher.

That said, these rates for international are WAY too high. I really really want to see this deck funded (for reasons I will be more specific about later) so hopefully the changes do get made.

[albinodragon]

Hey guys,
Sorry to hear how disappointed some of you are. I spent the past 40 days straight doing fulfillment from the last one so I'm trying not to make some of the same mistakes (instead I get to make new ones!). We got hosed on a lot of shipping last time so we're being very conservative about avoiding that again. For instance, many backers that put in $12 for shipping ended up running $17-24 to ship. What we charged CBJ was the only way we could cover the difference.

[BMPokerworld]

Hey guys,
Sorry to hear how disappointed some of you are. I spent the past 40 days straight doing fulfillment from the last one so I'm trying not to make some of the same mistakes (instead I get to make new ones!). We got hosed on a lot of shipping last time so we're being very conservative about avoiding that again. For instance, many backers that put in $12 for shipping ended up running $17-24 to ship. What we charged CBJ was the only way we could cover the difference.

Shipping can be expensive when you start shipping larger items. People who only want a deck, probably shouldn't be subsidizing people who are buying larger items. For larger items, which I don't see at the moment, you should figure the correct shipping cost for those items before you launch your Kickstarter campaign.

Thanks!

[Collector]

Risks and challenges:

"The biggest issue we had with fulfillment previously was not charging enough for shipping costs. We ended up spending a lot of our profits to cover additional shipping, specifically international which became much more costly when we allowed backers to add items to their pledges. We've compensated for that on this project by making very specific pledge levels in which the shipping costs are fixed."

Please, can someone explain me this part of the sentence in other words. I have some understanding of it but as a backer of this project but not of Call of Cthulhu deck I hope that I understand it in wrong way. Thanks for your help.

[MagikFingerz]

I want to pledge for this, but the pricing is just too high. I realize they made some mistakes on shipping costs last time, but it seems like they're overcompensating on this one

[Strag]

Risks and challenges:

"The biggest issue we had with fulfillment previously was not charging enough for shipping costs. We ended up spending a lot of our profits to cover additional shipping, specifically international which became much more costly when we allowed backers to add items to their pledges. We've compensated for that on this project by making very specific pledge levels in which the shipping costs are fixed."

Please, can someone explain me this part of the sentence in other words. I have some understanding of it but as a backer of this project but not of Call of Cthulhu deck I hope that I understand it in wrong way. Thanks for your help.

They are saying that with the other project, they didn't charge enough for shipping because they kept letting people add to their pledge level other items. This time they are (so far) not allowing people to add any extra items so that the shipping will not be too expensive for them. Unfortunately it looks like they have gone too far and are charging perhaps too much.

[CBJ]

FUNDED!

Congrats!

[Evan]

Well that didn't take long. Congrats!

[walrus]

Obviously a lot of people did not mind the prices. I like the cards (a lot) but will probably pass due to the price. The way kickstarter is you can easily pass on a deck as you know 27 are soon to follow.

[darkinertia]

i love albinodragons decks so much, the cthulhu deck is probably my favorite of last year, so i dont mind spending the money on this deck. the only real problem i have is how long the deck is going to take, june :/ since its already funded, i might just wait until the deck actually comes out, since it only cost me 12 bucks to get the green cthulhu deck

[Sinsandman]

Congrats on getting funded, and having to fulfill a shit ton of 2 deck orders to achieve it. I understand the pricing and shipping and all that...but 2 deck max? Wtf is your thinking there?

[elcyciB]

That is a fantastic looking tuck box. I love the brightness of it and especially the ghost cheshire grin near the top.

[Fluffykitten]

Cards are now more expensive and shipping prices for internationals are raised too.
$21 for one deck shipped to Germany. Pretty expensive!

I think that's because they lost so much money on international shipping. Which is very expensive!

Obviously a lot of people did not mind the prices. I like the cards (a lot) but will probably pass due to the price. The way kickstarter is you can easily pass on a deck as you know 27 are soon to follow.

The price is far less than I told them they should charge. I suggested $12. Per deck. Reason, the quality and detail. As well as the innovation.

Congrats on getting funded, and having to fulfill a shit ton of 2 deck orders to achieve it. I understand the pricing and shipping and all that...but 2 deck max? Wtf is your thinking there?

Yea that's fing bleep bleep.

Hey guys,
Sorry to hear how disappointed some of you are. I spent the past 40 days straight doing fulfillment from the last one so I'm trying not to make some of the same mistakes (instead I get to make new ones!). We got hosed on a lot of shipping last time so we're being very conservative about avoiding that again. For instance, many backers that put in $12 for shipping ended up running $17-24 to ship. What we charged CBJ was the only way we could cover the difference.

I know it's more work but I think without add ons the shipping might not be as high as you estimate. But I think if we got the black deck along with rthis one it would calm make happy many of the disappointments.

The other thing is that rather than limiting all orders to two decks (extremely insane if you ask, limit the number of backers per level and add other levels for later delivery. This way you can stagger fulfillment.

[darkinertia]

Obviously a lot of people did not mind the prices. I like the cards (a lot) but will probably pass due to the price. The way kickstarter is you can easily pass on a deck as you know 27 are soon to follow.

The price is far less than I told them they should charge. I suggested $12. Per deck. Reason, the quality and detail. As well as the innovation.

dont get me wrong i like the deck as much as the next guy, but what are you talking about? the quality is going to be the same as any other magic finish bike deck, since its made by USPCC, and what exactly do you mean innovation? or are you just using words? its a custom deck sure, but its based on alice in wonderland, and again magic finish is pretty much a standard in premium cards which are well below the 12$ mark, not sure why youre getting defensive for him lol

i dont know, someone that actually has done business with USPCC making decks correct me if im wrong, but 11 bucks for one deck shipped is pretty expensive right? seems like KS after KS end up with these huge glaring problems with their campaigns...i understand not wanting to go in the red, but theres gotta be other ways of going about it

[MagikFingerz]

Obviously a lot of people did not mind the prices. I like the cards (a lot) but will probably pass due to the price. The way kickstarter is you can easily pass on a deck as you know 27 are soon to follow.

The price is far less than I told them they should charge. I suggested $12. Per deck. Reason, the quality and detail. As well as the innovation.

I just don't get how anyone in the collecting community can condone such high prices. Detail doesn't cost extra to print, and you can't really put a price tag on innovation. For all we know, a really well-designed deck could have been finished within 2 weeks, while a poorly designed one could have been on the drawing board for several months.

If people start saying higher prices are ok, then prices WILL become higher. Be careful what you wish for.

[Fluffykitten]

Obviously a lot of people did not mind the prices. I like the cards (a lot) but will probably pass due to the price. The way kickstarter is you can easily pass on a deck as you know 27 are soon to follow.

The price is far less than I told them they should charge. I suggested $12. Per deck. Reason, the quality and detail. As well as the innovation.

dont get me wrong i like the deck as much as the next guy, but what are you talking about? the quality is going to be the same as any other magic finish bike deck, since its made by USPCC, and what exactly do you mean innovation? or are you just using words? its a custom deck sure, but its based on alice in wonderland, and again magic finish is pretty much a standard in premium cards which are well below the 12$ mark, not sure why youre getting defensive for him lol

i dont know, someone that actually has done business with USPCC making decks correct me if im wrong, but 11 bucks for one deck shipped is pretty expensive right? seems like KS after KS end up with these huge glaring problems with their campaigns...i understand not wanting to go in the red, but theres gotta be other ways of going about it

I'm talking about my opinion. I'm talking about the amount of work that they put into the work. Not all custom decks are worth the same. And certainly, if folks will happy pay $30 for their decks, I think it's not unreasonable for them to not loose money making and shipping the decks.

I'm talking about value vs price. If the deck isn't worth $12 or $10 to you, don't pay it. But if its worth $12 to enough people why should they sell and ship them for less? They can, and they have, but it's not out of hand. And certainly more worth it than other decks. Again not to everyone, but to enough people. Having said that, when I made that suggestion I thought there would be a light and dark set, if its only the light without the dark it's not worth as much to me, but if the dark deck does materialize than I would be fine paying $24 for the set. But again they are not charging that much.

I'm not sure whose "fault" it is but in my experience all uspcc decks are not created equal. Some really are better than others. I think it's a mix of stock and finish as well as ink and color choices or lack there of. But I have some uspcc decks that feel terrible. And some decks are just poor quality art and stock or both harley davidson is also the standard stock and coating but it feels awful. It is just terrible. Other decks are made for looking or else they chip and fall apart. But the CoC deck was made for using and the combination of their choices of stock, finish and so on works really well.

[Fluffykitten]

Obviously a lot of people did not mind the prices. I like the cards (a lot) but will probably pass due to the price. The way kickstarter is you can easily pass on a deck as you know 27 are soon to follow.

The price is far less than I told them they should charge. I suggested $12. Per deck. Reason, the quality and detail. As well as the innovation.

I just don't get how anyone in the collecting community can condone such high prices. Detail doesn't cost extra to print, and you can't really put a price tag on innovation. For all we know, a really well-designed deck could have been finished within 2 weeks, while a poorly designed one could have been on the drawing board for several months.

If people start saying higher prices are ok, then prices WILL become higher. Be careful what you wish for.

Not all decks are worth $12 the vast majority are not.

But business is business. It costs about the same to make most sunglasses, but it's crazy to charge $10 when the market will bare $500. I'm not saying that every deck is with $12 but some are and have been for years. As buyer I want every deck to be $2.99 w free shipping. But as a business person that's crazy talk. I was recommending $12 from a business pov not a buyers.

ETA: markets (and buyers) can and do put a price tag on innovation. The trick is always finding the perfect price that the market will bare.

[Strag]

Back on topic for the deck, here is the card that was completed in the Google hangout last night;



Replay of the Google hangout from where it was drawn;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIwosSwtGKw&feature=plcp[/youtube]

I really like how they do these hangouts and you get to see how the art is made. I think it's one of the reasons why they are so successful.

[badpete69]

Obviously a lot of people did not mind the prices. I like the cards (a lot) but will probably pass due to the price. The way kickstarter is you can easily pass on a deck as you know 27 are soon to follow.

The price is far less than I told them they should charge. I suggested $12. Per deck. Reason, the quality and detail. As well as the innovation.

I just don't get how anyone in the collecting community can condone such high prices. Detail doesn't cost extra to print, and you can't really put a price tag on innovation. For all we know, a really well-designed deck could have been finished within 2 weeks, while a poorly designed one could have been on the drawing board for several months.

If people start saying higher prices are ok, then prices WILL become higher. Be careful what you wish for.

Magik

You have to understand that for us in the United States this deck is not high price but the same price as any other decks. I have said it many times, buy a $6.95 deck from Theory 11 or D&D Ellusionist it will cost you at least $10 including shipping if not $12 or more. So for me $10 for 1 deck or 2 deck for $20 is a very good deal. Since most funders are probably from the US we see no issue. I have to say that for international shipping the price structure could be better for sure but what can you do. If you can't afford it or think it's too high don't buy it but I for one will continue to pay $10 a deck with free shipping, it's a better deal than Theory 11 and other stores

[MagikFingerz]

Magik

You have to understand that for us in the United States this deck is not high price but the same price as any other decks. I have said it many times, buy a $6.95 deck from Theory 11 or D&D Ellusionist it will cost you at least $10 including shipping if not $12 or more. So for me $10 for 1 deck or 2 deck for $20 is a very good deal. Since most funders are probably from the US we see no issue. I have to say that for international shipping the price structure could be better for sure but what can you do. If you can't afford it or think it's too high don't buy it but I for one will continue to pay $10 a deck with free shipping, it's a better deal than Theory 11 and other stores

My post was in response to the $12 per deck suggestion, not the pricing of this deck. $10 per deck shipped is fine, but like you say - international shipping for this deck "could be better". Which is an understatement to say the least

[Fluffykitten]

Magik

You have to understand that for us in the United States this deck is not high price but the same price as any other decks. I have said it many times, buy a $6.95 deck from Theory 11 or D&D Ellusionist it will cost you at least $10 including shipping if not $12 or more. So for me $10 for 1 deck or 2 deck for $20 is a very good deal. Since most funders are probably from the US we see no issue. I have to say that for international shipping the price structure could be better for sure but what can you do. If you can't afford it or think it's too high don't buy it but I for one will continue to pay $10 a deck with free shipping, it's a better deal than Theory 11 and other stores

My post was in response to the $12 per deck suggestion, not the pricing of this deck. $10 per deck shipped is fine, but like you say - international shipping for this deck "could be better". Which is an understatement to say the least

12$ with free shipping.

If you buy in the USA one deck as others have said you end up paying at least $2-4 shipping for a mass produced 6.95 deck. I don't think 2$ is too much to pay a two person team that works day and night to get things right.

We know its not because other decks have made money charging that and more.

[MagikFingerz]

Magik

You have to understand that for us in the United States this deck is not high price but the same price as any other decks. I have said it many times, buy a $6.95 deck from Theory 11 or D&D Ellusionist it will cost you at least $10 including shipping if not $12 or more. So for me $10 for 1 deck or 2 deck for $20 is a very good deal. Since most funders are probably from the US we see no issue. I have to say that for international shipping the price structure could be better for sure but what can you do. If you can't afford it or think it's too high don't buy it but I for one will continue to pay $10 a deck with free shipping, it's a better deal than Theory 11 and other stores

My post was in response to the $12 per deck suggestion, not the pricing of this deck. $10 per deck shipped is fine, but like you say - international shipping for this deck "could be better". Which is an understatement to say the least

12$ with free shipping.

If you buy in the USA one deck as others have said you end up paying at least $2-4 shipping for a mass produced 6.95 deck. I don't think 2$ is too much to pay a two person team that works day and night to get things right.

We know its not because other decks have made money charging that and more.

A. Not everyone is in the USA.
B. The size of the team doesn't make any difference. Neither does their time schedule.
C. Not every mass produced deck cost $6.95.
D. "other decks have made money charging that and more" - Yes, Pedale made tons from selling for $15 per deck, which is an insane price. Just because a deck was successful doesn't mean it wasn't overpriced.

None of this matters though, in the case of this deck free US shipping and $8 to ship 1 deck internationally speaks for itself.

[badpete69]

There is definitively something not quite right with international shipping. I think it should at least be split in many regions. I sell worldwide and the prices are as follows

To Canada shipping for one deck is about $3.50 first class. so let's assume you add $1 for the bubble envelope and 50 cents for w/e you could say $5 shipping is more than enough to ship to Canada. But if we assume there is already a small price of the shipping included in the $10 initial price as we do here in the US, then the $8 for shipping is indeed starting to be painful.

To Norway the price of shipping one deck is $5.50 add price of envelope and you are getting close to shipping being $7. So $8 is not that far off but again you are paying $10 for the deck

Japan is same as Norway

Bottom line if he had sold the deck $8 without including shipping and charged the $7 it does cost to ship to europe or asia, the deck would end up being $15. He is asking $18 not that big of a deal

I think Canada is getting the short end of the stick in this deal

[Encarded]

Something that might be part of the equation here is that the USPS is going to be adjusting their prices on January 27th. For the US, little has changed but International is HUGELY different. Most every class of international mail is going to rise a lot in price, 60% higher in many cases.

I will have to adjust all of my shipping rates at the end of the month as well. According to this spreadsheet I got form USPS it looks like a first-class package that have cost me $6.12 to send yesterday will be $8.55-12.75 in a few weeks depending on the destination.

That could explain their international pricing. And even if that's not the reason they did it, all international buyers better get ready to see some nasty price increases.

[cosmicsecret]

this will mean a lot less international sales,as far as i have read the prices to ship to Canada will be increased on 105%!!!

[Fluffykitten]

A. Not everyone is in the USA.
B. The size of the team doesn't make any difference. Neither does their time schedule.
C. Not every mass produced deck cost $6.95.
D. "other decks have made money charging that and more" - Yes, Pedale made tons from selling for $15 per deck, which is an insane price. Just because a deck was successful doesn't mean it wasn't overpriced.

None of this matters though, in the case of this deck free US shipping and $8 to ship 1 deck internationally speaks for itself.

Of course the size of the team matters. A one person production is a different animal than a multimillion dollar company. It's insane to say it makes no difference

And as always if the price is not worth it to you, don't buy.

I have seen decks from $1 to $125 that aren't worth it to me and many in the same range that are. It's all about choice. If I think a deck is over charging I don't buy.

this will mean a lot less international sales,as far as i have read the prices to ship to Canada will be increased on 105%!!!

International shipping is no joke. I shipped 7 ounces to Australia once and it was well over $8. That the weight of two decks. Not including the extra time and customs problems

Something that might be part of the equation here is that the USPS is going to be adjusting their prices on January 27th. For the US, little has changed but International is HUGELY different. Most every class of international mail is going to rise a lot in price, 60% higher in many cases.

I will have to adjust all of my shipping rates at the end of the month as well. According to this spreadsheet I got form USPS it looks like a first-class package that have cost me $6.12 to send yesterday will be $8.55-12.75 in a few weeks depending on the destination.

That could explain their international pricing. And even if that's not the reason they did it, all international buyers better get ready to see some nasty price increases.

I know I have been doing free shipping to Canada and 4$ worldwide (always at a loss) but that's going to change.

[albinodragon]

Hey Guys,
Sorry for the delay in replying to this post, I've been pretty busy working on the project as well as tying up loose ends from the Call of Cthulhu project. I've typed up a blog post about the new pricing structure which you can find here: http://albinodragon.com/blog/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll type up a more specific one regarding shipping in the future.

[sway]

The deck and the artwork sure are lovely, but I'm so disappointed by the fact they are charging $25 to ship 6 decks internationally.

Sadly, 2 decks will have to suffice for me.