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sinjin7 wrote:

ecNate wrote:Any guesses when it will sell out? Not knowing what original inventory was I would still guess within 12 hours, but if not then after 12 hours likely just 2-4 options left. It would be REALLY nice if at some point they update what's available for those who come late to the party.

One would think these will sell out quickly given the very reasonable prices Jackson is selling these for. Given that you get at most a 10% overrun from the USPCC, there should only be a few hundred of each deck. For example, the Moriarty v.2 indicates a print run of 2750 decks (if the deck seal is accurate), so there can only be at most 275 extra decks, and probably far less than that due to post KS sales on his site and the possibility there wasn't a full 10% overrun.

What has me curious is why aren't these decks be wrapped in cellophane? I get why they may not have a deck seal, but I can't see why these wouldn't be wrapped in cellophane. Maybe he's differentiating the overrun decks from the regular decks by removing the cellophane. Blowing out his excess inventory in this manner can potentially undercut the value of his decks, so maybe removing the cellophane wrap is one way he's trying to preserve the value of his regular decks.

I would guess its to keep his numbered decks value. If he sold 12 decks for less than $5 a deck, wrapped in cellophane, what would stop someone from selling them for 3,4, or more times that price. Cellophane was probably removed by kings wild.

Kudos to Jackson for doing this, under $4.50 per deck is a great price. Unfortunately the international shipping killed it for me, $40 for a brick won't fly when I'm trying to cut down on the deck expenses. You guys with the $11 shipping option should be happy it wasn't four times as much!

Cbkimble wrote:

sinjin7 wrote:

ecNate wrote:Any guesses when it will sell out? Not knowing what original inventory was I would still guess within 12 hours, but if not then after 12 hours likely just 2-4 options left. It would be REALLY nice if at some point they update what's available for those who come late to the party.

One would think these will sell out quickly given the very reasonable prices Jackson is selling these for. Given that you get at most a 10% overrun from the USPCC, there should only be a few hundred of each deck. For example, the Moriarty v.2 indicates a print run of 2750 decks (if the deck seal is accurate), so there can only be at most 275 extra decks, and probably far less than that due to post KS sales on his site and the possibility there wasn't a full 10% overrun.

What has me curious is why aren't these decks be wrapped in cellophane? I get why they may not have a deck seal, but I can't see why these wouldn't be wrapped in cellophane. Maybe he's differentiating the overrun decks from the regular decks by removing the cellophane. Blowing out his excess inventory in this manner can potentially undercut the value of his decks, so maybe removing the cellophane wrap is one way he's trying to preserve the value of his regular decks.

I would guess its to keep his numbered decks value. If he sold 12 decks for less than $5 a deck, wrapped in cellophane, what would stop someone from selling them for 3,4, or more times that price. Cellophane was probably removed by kings wild.

I missed the Federal 52 Part 1 & 2 on Kickstarter, but really liked the cards. I bought 8 unbranded decks (2 of Fed.52, Gold, Silver and White Reserve) in January when Kings Wild had their $20 each sale. The Black Reserve wasn't discounted, so I didn't get any. None were wrapped in cellophane and only the Silver Certificate and the White Reserve had numbered seals with them.

They were sold out earlier but JR just posted to Facebook that 50 more bricks have been added to inventory.

Mike Ratledge wrote:

vasta41 wrote:I never usually buy bricks or half bricks... Is $11 shipping within the US for 6 decks a normal price? Doesn't seem like it to me and that was my deal breaker on this otherwise awesome sale.

i'm pulling this out from between my cheeks, but I'm pretty certain it said "Priority Mail" (for $11) to ship a brick. That's a VERY reasonable price for 2- or 3-day delivery from the date it is posted.

If I'm reading this thread correctly, they charged $11 to ship a brick? AND to ship 6 decks?? That doesn't make any sense. $11 seems reasonable for a brick but why is it the same price to ship 6 decks?

@Mike- I might think differently than most but I would never pay more money for speed. I could care less when they arrive in the mail.

vasta41 wrote:

Mike Ratledge wrote:

vasta41 wrote:I never usually buy bricks or half bricks... Is $11 shipping within the US for 6 decks a normal price? Doesn't seem like it to me and that was my deal breaker on this otherwise awesome sale.

i'm pulling this out from between my cheeks, but I'm pretty certain it said "Priority Mail" (for $11) to ship a brick. That's a VERY reasonable price for 2- or 3-day delivery from the date it is posted.

If I'm reading this thread correctly, they charged $11 to ship a brick? AND to ship 6 decks?? That doesn't make any sense. $11 seems reasonable for a brick but why is it the same price to ship 6 decks?

@Mike- I might think differently than most but I would never pay more money for speed. I could care less when they arrive in the mail.

They may be shipped in a flat rate box, IIRC a medium flat rate priority box is somewhere around $11. You can fit 6 decks in a small flat rate box w/ packing materials but medium is large enough for 12 if not more since they may not come in a brick box even.

The brick comes with a brick box.

I ended up getting a brick because it made way more financial sense. It's still crazy to me that shipping for 6 and 12 decks is the same. Brick price per deck (incl. shipping): a little less than $5.10, 6 deck price per deck: a little less than $6.85.

Sher wrote:The brick comes with a brick box.

That's right, forgot that they come with the original fed 52 custom brick box. Now I'll have something proper to put my Fed series in, sweet.

I jumped on this but now that I think of it... with this sale combined with the Touch of Modern sale... isn't this really going to devalue KW decks?

@Stag - you tell me... has KW decks lost any value in your eyes. What value did KW decks have before that they no longer have?

StanKindLee wrote:@Stag - you tell me... has KW decks lost any value in your eyes. What value did KW decks have before that they no longer have?

The fact that there appears to be more inventory than originally thought, the fact that you can now buy Fed52 decks for far less than before. Before, demand outstripped supply. It now appears there is far more supply than originally thought so prices have come down.

Demand was there because the original design was quite unique and really well done. However, Jackson has now done many more decks with similar look so the art is probably not as unique and more available in variations for people to purchase.

Strag wrote:

StanKindLee wrote:@Stag - you tell me... has KW decks lost any value in your eyes. What value did KW decks have before that they no longer have?

The fact that there appears to be more inventory than originally thought, the fact that you can now buy Fed52 decks for far less than before. Before, demand outstripped supply. It now appears there is far more supply than originally thought so prices have come down.

Demand was there because the original design was quite unique and really well done. However, Jackson has now done many more decks with similar look so the art is probably not as unique and more available in variations for people to purchase.

Cards rarely hold their value.

TGunitedcardists wrote:

Strag wrote:

StanKindLee wrote:@Stag - you tell me... has KW decks lost any value in your eyes. What value did KW decks have before that they no longer have?

The fact that there appears to be more inventory than originally thought, the fact that you can now buy Fed52 decks for far less than before. Before, demand outstripped supply. It now appears there is far more supply than originally thought so prices have come down.

Demand was there because the original design was quite unique and really well done. However, Jackson has now done many more decks with similar look so the art is probably not as unique and more available in variations for people to purchase.

Cards rarely hold their value.

Sad to say, thats absolutely untrue. Most decks increase with value rather than decrease. If they kept dropping, my collection would be much larger than it is now.

TGunitedcardists wrote:

Strag wrote:

StanKindLee wrote:@Stag - you tell me... has KW decks lost any value in your eyes. What value did KW decks have before that they no longer have?

The fact that there appears to be more inventory than originally thought, the fact that you can now buy Fed52 decks for far less than before. Before, demand outstripped supply. It now appears there is far more supply than originally thought so prices have come down.

Demand was there because the original design was quite unique and really well done. However, Jackson has now done many more decks with similar look so the art is probably not as unique and more available in variations for people to purchase.

Cards rarely hold their value.

I'm really curious as to what you base that statement on? Can you provide data or point to examples? The only cards I'm aware of dropping in value are the Vanda cards (because David apparently has sold them out at <$4 to wholesalers) and a few others such as Handlordz who have also blown out cards at below original prices. That's why I'm worried about what's happening with KW, as these prices are really really low.

Strag wrote:I jumped on this but now that I think of it... with this sale combined with the Touch of Modern sale... isn't this really going to devalue KW decks?

My guess would be - the sales have gone down (maybe zero) on those decks at the premium price so he down valued or marked them by removing the cellophanes&added a sticker on them.You know decks sitting on the shelfs is dead money....
Same applies to the ToM sale - too many decks that are not generating enough money in short time...release sales are done and then the sales start to flow down rapidly.
The next "big" deck is always around the corner and older decks are often forgotton faster then you think.

It´s not a unusual business strategy to sell overstock at a lower price in bulks to re-sellers just to make room for new stuff and get some money in
short time.

cosmicsecret wrote:

Strag wrote:I jumped on this but now that I think of it... with this sale combined with the Touch of Modern sale... isn't this really going to devalue KW decks?

My guess would be - the sales have gone down (maybe zero) on those decks at the premium price so he down valued or marked them by removing the cellophanes&added a sticker on them.You know decks sitting on the shelfs is dead money....
Same applies to the ToM sale - too many decks that are not generating enough money in short time...release sales are done and then the sales start to flow down rapidly.
The next "big" deck is always around the corner and older decks are often forgotton faster then you think.

It´s not a unusual business strategy to sell overstock at a lower price in bulks to re-sellers just to make room for new stuff and get some money in
short time.

It's not an unusual strategy in a purely commodity business, but it's a fact of playing card collecting that there is a certain amount of scaricty and increase in value that drives the collectibility. In addition there is also the fact that he is selling stock far below Kickstarter prices (although in slightly different condition). Bascially this sale has the potential to further dilute the market which will in turn drive down prices of existing collectibles. It also creates a certain amount of customer dis-satisfaction. How many people who bought a Hive pair are happy they are available for much less now?

Well, i did not purchased any of the Hive decks because i thought that they were overpriced - people who grabbed them at the inital release price were OK with that price else they didnt jumped the gun and bought them at that price.
Will this sale decrease the value of the decks which are on sale? Maybe...maybe not who knows? Time will tell.
I really care less. I collect not for the value rather more for the art/design and the story behind a deck of cards.

I belive in selling the stuff as long as its fresh from the oven - once its cold you will be sitting on it for a long time.
Selling in bulks with a smaller cut for yourself, having the cash right now and look forward
or
sit on your stuff and sell a deck once in a few weeks and have a extra $2 in this SINGLE sale....

Do the math yourself. I tried selling a complete Sherlock Holmes Set at Ebay for a price under the "market value"....guess what no taker within 4 months now.

I think this all boils down to your view on a deck, as a collector, magician, cardist or speculator.

Is an "Original" sealed Federal 52 from the campaign the same as an unwrapped, re-stickered vesion? The answer to that question will determine if your happy or not with your original purchase as opposed to the ToM sale..........I'm happier with my original and its cool I don't have to pony up the full price to get a deck to open, use, photograph and admire.

Everyones going to be different and there is no wrong answer.

I think you have to make an attempt at protecting your brand equity. Jackson fancies himself as this purveyor of elite, high-end playing cards, and certainly prices them as such. I know for the Halloween sale he only sold overrun decks and they were differentiated from the original decks by removing the cellophane and having a sticker placed on them in an attempt to protect Jackson's brand equity. But I think he definitely runs the risk of alienating loyal supporters when he sells to them at a high premium, but then later blows out excess inventory to retailers like ToM, who turn around and flip the decks at much lower prices than the premium paid by his supporters (see my post on the Hive thread).

Speaking of the Hive deck, if I bought the Hive deck at $18.00 (which I didn't because that is an absurd price), and then see ToM selling the exact same deck for $12.50, I don't think I'd be too happy right now for paying about 45% more than what other people are paying. If Jackson's going to price his decks at the high-end scale, then he shouldn't be de-valuing and diluting his product later by liquidating them out at a bargain rate just so he can make a quick buck. For ToM to be selling Hives at $12.50, I'm estimating that they bought them from Jackson for around $6.00 - $8.00, and Jackson knew full well ToM would be undercutting his own pricing, because that is what ToM is known for. That's not really doing justice for his supporters.

If Jackson is going to keep on doing this, pretty soon nobody (except the most loyal of drooling fan boys/girls) are going to pay the premium prices Jackson charges because we know he'll just liquidate them out sooner or later and we can get the same decks at fraction of the cost Jackson sells them for. Again, this is no way to protect your brand equity, and no way to reward supports for their loyalty.

FYI....there is an error on the ToM sale, Federal 52s are NOT part of the sale....it should have read Silver Certificate. ToM will be correcting the error.

I agree. if jackson does this liquidation one more time, he'll have hell funding his projects in the future. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

This thread is an example of what's wrong with this forum. Complaining about the bubble and prices are too high, and you won't $upport him. JR has a $uper $ale, with reasonable prices and really nice cards, and voila, complaints about how it's too low.

TGunitedcardists wrote:This thread is an example of what's wrong with this forum. Complaining about the bubble and prices are too high, and you won't $upport him. JR has a $uper $ale, with reasonable prices and really nice cards, and voila, complaints about how it's too low.

Well my comments arent specifically with this sale, rather its a combination of this sale, and the TOM sale, and the TOM sale is by far the greater offender. If the halloween sale was the only sale, i doubt you will see these "complains".

For a person who didnt buy any of the decks like Hive and Civil War LE, the sale was super for me.

But when i went back to think about things, the decks were released about 2 months ago, hyped to be the super limited decks that everyone needed. But when the Hive didnt sell out (im guessing just marked as sold out, it sat at about 100 decks for the last month or so.), and perhaps the CW LE didnt get that rousing demand JR expected, he decided to offload them to TOM at a fraction of the price. How would the initial supporters feel, so soon after they have just made their purchase? They really wouldnt be too happy, would you if you were in their shoes? Surely its not too difficult holding on to those just released decks for at least half a year right?

I don't have a problem with this sale. The cello and seals were off, so the originals that were bought at higher prices still retain their value. The decks in this sale were meant to be opened because what made them collectible (cello and numbered seal) were removed.

Sher wrote:I don't have a problem with this sale. The cello and seals were off, so the originals that were bought at higher prices still retain their value. The decks in this sale were meant to be opened because what made them collectible (cello and numbered seal) were removed.

I would say that even if the cello and seal remained in this sale, i wouldnt have any problem with this, these decks have been out a long time, you can have a sale once in awhile. Similar to the clearout by CARC just a little while back, but a better deal.

Guys, I think there's been a misunderstanding: I'm not having any kind of sale. And stop capitalizing the M in my name, it looks weird.

TGunitedcardists wrote:This thread is an example of what's wrong with this forum. Complaining about the bubble and prices are too high, and you won't $upport him. JR has a $uper $ale, with reasonable prices and really nice cards, and voila, complaints about how it's too low.

I completely agree with you. Part of the reason I visit less frequently and just ignore post from certain people. My reaction to both the Halloween Sale and the ToM sale having already had everything already excluding the civil war premium deck was "Cool" Do I feel like I paid too much for the cards that I already have? Not at all.

I collect for the art and design. I'm never selling any of my cards so I could care less about value. Also the same reason why I don't buy decks by the brick. What the hell am i going to do with 12 of the same deck? I need that room for new decks that are coming down the line.

Sher wrote:I don't have a problem with this sale. The cello and seals were off, so the originals that were bought at higher prices still retain their value. The decks in this sale were meant to be opened because what made them collectible (cello and numbered seal) were removed.

Would you have a problem if they were wrapped up and had the original seals?

TGunitedcardists wrote:This thread is an example of what's wrong with this forum. Complaining about the bubble and prices are too high, and you won't $upport him. JR has a $uper $ale, with reasonable prices and really nice cards, and voila, complaints about how it's too low.

Maybe I didn't read all the threads but I didn't really see many say they wouldn't buy them just not buy them at premium release prices. Why would you if 2-3 mo this later you could purchase them at a fraction of the cost.