Draplin Design Co. "Thick Lines Edition" - from Deckstarter

[sinjin7]

I just keep wondering why people still expect anything different from the typical pretentious, over-priced, over-hyped products from D$D. To charge $30 for a deck they were literally giving away by the thousands is ballsy even for them. Like Mike said, the concept of Deckstarter is flawed from the start. Its not a crowdfunding platform, its just another online storefront for D$D/Art of Play trying to ride the coattails of Kickstarter.

These guys used to be about magic and cardistry - revolutionary pioneers, really. Now its all ridiculous hand lotions, grossly over-priced nail clippers, failed TV pilots, and artsy fartsy fluff.

[Eoghann]

Wait, so these decks have already been printed and given away, and the remaining 750 are being veiled as a separate run? What the ffffuu...

And according to that pictures, the type decks are already good to go as well?

Why aren't they just flat out selling them instead of going through the funding period?

[wwpierce]

Wait, so these decks have already been printed and given away, and the remaining 750 are being veiled as a separate run? What the ffffuu...

And according to that pictures, the type decks are already good to go as well?

Why aren't they just flat out selling them instead of going through the funding period?

Not only are decks printed, but look at the rolls of uncut sheets there as well! It is not 4 uncuts..there are huge amount of them if you scroll through the images. Take a look...

http://deckstarter.com/how-design-live/ ... fe5bd173f6

[badpete69]

They added new pledge levels. 3 decks for $65 plus shipping and 6 decks for $120

[wwpierce]

This is from the Kardify Q&A with Dan Buck back in April. Check out the underlined/bold sentence..

Q: That is a very good concept. So, how does Deckstarter work?

A: Deckstarter is a crowd-funding platform for playing cards. We hand pick the best projects that get sent to us and if we think they are a good fit, we feature them on the website. People make pledges on the decks of cards they like and if the funding goal is met, production begins. What really makes Deckstarter unique is the behind the scenes. For the deck lover it's pretty much the same but for the artist it is a much more simple process.

So....goal is met and then production begins... guess they reverse engineered these..

And by the way.. did they just cut and paste HTML code from Kickstarter...some subtle differences but very close..

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

yea, if they printed these already and just want to break even, why not "SELL" them on artofplay and D&D for $25 and just "ship" them to whomever buys them?

Because what happens if they don't make their goal? They're stuck with the remainder of the decks and nobody gets them? That doesn't make sense.....

or does it? Maybe I'm stupid.....

[badpete69]

I agree magic. This is such a stupid concept right now and so poorly deployed. they should have had 2 real funding projects with these 2 decks as perks for the pledgers. basically that way you would draw a crowd to your new site, understand how this is really supposed to work and you would get a free deck for pledging on the new projects. Right this is just a presale store of 2 already printed decks. They are still going to sell those decks if they do not "fund"

[wwpierce]

One last thing.. I promise..maybe..

At the very bottom of both pledge pages is the following sentence..

"These cards are in stock and ready to ship. Pledge now and we’ll send you yours as soon as the funding goal is met. "

What a ridiculous statement!! As mentioned before by many others...What is the point then?

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

ha ha, isn't my incentive as a buyer now to hope that they DON'T fund? - THAT way, the price comes down? Hey I am a HUGE D&D fanboy, I usually foam at the mouth for all of their stuff... but this... is super confusing.

[Mike Ratledge]

ha ha, isn't my incentive as a buyer now to hope that they DON'T fund? - THAT way, the price comes down? Hey I am a HUGE D&D fanboy, I usually foam at the mouth for all of their stuff... but this... is super confusing.

David, this is just a good idea gone bad, frankly. They could have done it right, and they could have done it smart. As it is they did it stupid and dirty, and the end result is the mess that you see: a website without a cause (cue the James Dean music).

Why? Who benefits other than D$D? What does anyone in the card collecting community benefit from this? It's absurdly expensive, doesn't even include shipping in the basic $25 price for the deck. Total of 103 decks sold as of this point - out of 1000 (or 750 - depends on which part of their BS you believe - there are two different claims in two different places with two different numbers in typical D$D style: there's no way to know what to believe, because if things don't work like they want, they change it, even in mid-stream).

I wish there was something positive I could say here, but I keep coming up empty-handed.

The other problem is that they even say: "To over 3,000 people in attendance, we gifted limited edition decks of playing cards designed by Aaron Draplin and Debbie Millman, an incredible effort to say the least." which means that they already gave away 6000 of these first "rare decks" (I have a high tolerance for the use of 'rarity' these days, but if you handed out 6000 decks for free, the damned things aren't rare - at all!), so how the heck are these decks EVER going to be worth anything, certainly never worth a dime more than the $30 it costs you to have one deck delivered to your home, and the way I do math you're paying them $25 to boost their profits because the reality of the whole thing is that each deck MIGHT be actually worth $5 - and that's a BIG maybe!

[nECr0MaNCeD]

From the Deckstarter website.....
.....as well as contributing to the development of a collectors market for custom designed playing cards.

I take offense to this. I may be new to the card collecting world but I know it existed in a big way long before the Buck brothers were born and I can't think of a single thing they've doe to "develop" the hobby. There was also a comment about "pioneering" Cardistry. While I will admit they've done a good deal to raise it's popularity but Pioneers? Correct me if I am wrong but weren't there many card artists before these guys?

[Gareth]

... the end result is the mess that you see: a website without a cause ....

Love it. Yes, a pledge-before-we-make website selling decks they've already made, and now hoping to get some pledges to keep the whole facade standing.

As a matter of co-incidence (or not...) the Buck$ decided to 'invite' me along to DeckStarter today - months after many/most here got invitations. Looks like they are scrounging around for any interest...

[Mike Ratledge]

They are grasping for straws. At this point the other ("Millman") deck has still only sold a few more than 30. I know that they will do anything and everything they can, so I expect to see them both mysteriously funded on the last day - likely by some "Anonymous" funder. I wonder who that might be? It's odd enough that the deck has 10% of the funding already directly attributed to the Buck brothers including Justin who runs ArtOfPlay for them, but why the heck would they show the dollar amount that each person has pledged? To me that is invasion of privacy and I don't remember anywhere them saying that by signing up you were giving up any rights to your financial information.

Oh, well. IANAL. I'll shut up and watch it burn...

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Showing what each backer pledged can only be a shallow attempt to create competition based on envy. "So and so pledged xxx dollars, I can't let him beat Me". I find it tacky at best, invasive at worst.

As for the name Deckstarter, why would you put part of another company's name in your "original" company name when you are trying to improve upon the original company's idea? This reminds me of the hordes of "Iproducts" that have sprung up over the last few years to ride Apple's coat tails. If you want to do something BETTER than the original, you don't "knock off" the originals name. Just my two cents....

[Godzillian]

These guys keep sending me reminders to fund their decks. It's almost like spam at this point :\ I realize I signed up for their newsletter... but I didn't sign up for their constant nagging.

[Mike Ratledge]

These guys keep sending me reminders to fund their decks. It's almost like spam at this point :\ I realize I signed up for their newsletter... but I didn't sign up for their constant nagging.

Heck, as well as it's going (NOT!), expect to get one every day for the next 7 or 8 days at least...

[PDXPLAYINGCARDS]

Hey UnitedCardists,

Longtime lurker. I've been following this deck and just wanted to share my opinion on this deck and the artist. I've been a long time fan of Aaron Draplin and because of this I was really interested in this deck.

Yes, it's not the most creative deck but it is very Draplin-ish. He has been using thick lines in his work for a long time and I was happy to see he carried this over to the court cards. I like the look of it quite a bit. I saw on user say...

They say "you can throw them" (seriously!). This is an epic fail, and I forgot to mention that they said that you can play poker or build a house of cards. I wish that I was kidding, but not...

This may seem lame, but this is actually a common thing Aaron does with his products. If you ever pick up a field notes notebook you'll see he lists uses at the back just like on this deck.

Besides the stuff said about Aaron, I would 100% agree with you. Seeing Aaron working with the Buck Twins made me sick. I was stoked to see one of my favorite designers create a deck (something I never thought would happen), but disgusted that the Buck Twins were behind it. Overall, DeckStarter seems terrible. As a long time collector seeing what D&D have done to the card community is disheartening.

I don't mean any disrespect to anybody and their opinion, just wanted to share my thoughts and experience with the designer. All the best

[th4mo]

Hey UnitedCardists,

Longtime lurker. I've been following this deck and just wanted to share my opinion on this deck and the artist. I've been a long time fan of Aaron Draplin and because of this I was really interested in this deck.

Yes, it's not the most creative deck but it is very Draplin-ish. He has been using thick lines in his work for a long time and I was happy to see he carried this over to the court cards. I like the look of it quite a bit. I saw on user say...

They say "you can throw them" (seriously!). This is an epic fail, and I forgot to mention that they said that you can play poker or build a house of cards. I wish that I was kidding, but not...

This may seem lame, but this is actually a common thing Aaron does with his products. If you ever pick up a field notes notebook you'll see he lists uses at the back just like on this deck.

Besides the stuff said about Aaron, I would 100% agree with you. Seeing Aaron working with the Buck Twins made me sick. I was stoked to see one of my favorite designers create a deck (something I never thought would happen), but disgusted that the Buck Twins were behind it. Overall, DeckStarter seems terrible. As a long time collector seeing what D&D have done to the card community is disheartening.

I don't mean any disrespect to anybody and their opinion, just wanted to share my thoughts and experience with the designer. All the best

Hey PDX, welcome to UC and thanks for your insights. Glad you broke out from behind the lurker curtain. Great to have another oregonian around here!
You might like to tell us more about yourself on the "Introduce yourself" thread...

[Sher]

Welcome, PDXPlayingCards! (Are you from Portland, by the way?)

I think it's great to have different opinions on the forum so we can consider all perspectives. I don't think any of us are particularly well acquainted with Drapin's work, so it's definitely good to hear from someone who is. Thanks for giving us insight into his artistic style.

[PDXPLAYINGCARDS]

Thanks Sher! Yup, good ol' Portland, OR.

I'm glad to be here. I've been an active member on forums in the past so it's good to be back chatting with fellow enthusiasts.

[rjtomlinson1977]

Thanks Sher! Yup, good ol' Portland, OR.

I'm glad to be here. I've been an active member on forums in the past so it's good to be back chatting with fellow enthusiasts.

It's nice here, now that they lost all the bullies.

[decibelhz]

I put up some money to get this deck because I like it and that's the only reason I need to have. I could care less about D&D and haven't been collecting cards long enough to understand why the card community as a whole seems to despise these guys with a passion. In fact, the deck that got me interested in the hobby is a D&D deck (Ultimate Deck) that was given to me as a gift and it is still one of my favs. A far as I can tell, it's because they charge loads of money for things and people think they are just straight up d-bags.

As for Aaron, after watching his Ted talk and field note inspiration video and reading some interviews, I just like the guy and his passion. I actually went out and started checking out field notes because I think they're f'ing awesome and wouldn't mind having my own collection of them. The guys is living his life, doing whatever the hell he wants, makes a decent living doing what he loves and could give two shits about what anyone else has to say. That's someone I can get behind.

I hope his deck gets funded cause I want to support the guy and I'd like to have his deck in my collection. I could give a shit about the other deck on there right now but I'm not going to go and make multiple posts about how these two designers are elitist chumps and idiots who don't know what they hell they are doing and have no business making playing cards. Seriously, who's being elitist now?

On another note, Deckstarter, if they continue to operate after this, needs to just blow up their site and start from scratch because it is very poorly designed.

[rjtomlinson1977]

On another note, Deckstarter, if they continue to operate after this, needs to just blow up their site and start from scratch because it is very poorly designed.

I agree... their site doesn't seem profesionally designed.

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

I could care less about D&D and haven't been collecting cards long enough to understand why the card community as a whole seems to despise these guys with a passion.

wow is that really true?

That's not true for me.

Dan & Dave had some of the very first collector decks I ever bought - not to mention that they were "2" of the original "theory 11." Personally I think all the "big houses" try to push the realm of magic and deck collecting into new arenas and not every idea is genius. At least D&D tried something new and tried to shake things up. Not everything they do is targeted at me, I am not a card juggler, nor a sleight purist - so whatever, but I realize there is an audience for that & it serves those people and I move on.

I'm not backing the D-starter decks because:
a) I hate the drawer pull box
b) I hate the price point
c) I don't understand the premise of deckstarter

But it doesn't make me "despise" the Buck twins.

In fact, I harbor no ill feelings towards any of the magic houses. They are all trying to do new things, generate a following and make money - somewhere in all of that I have to find what works for me and to let the rest of it go. Some of it makes me laugh, some of it makes me shake my head... and some of it... makes me whip out my wallet. Sure some of it frustrates me, but that's part of the deal of any hobby. The fact that it frustrates me - confirms that it's my passion - but that doesn't make me walk away from a brand or bad mouth it. If anything it strengthens my relationship with the brand as we "work through it."

D&D puts out some of my favorite decks! Denim Smoke & Mirrors... oh man. And I love the new Magic Con deck! The fanback and steamboat reprints are some of the most beautiful tuck cases in my collection - oh and Fulton's Clip Joint....

[Mirror]

I could care less about D&D and haven't been collecting cards long enough to understand why the card community as a whole seems to despise these guys with a passion.

wow is that really true?

That's not true for me.

Dan & Dave had some of the very first collector decks I ever bought - not to mention that they were "2" of the original "theory 11." Personally I think all the "big houses" try to push the realm of magic and deck collecting into new arenas and not every idea is genius. At least D&D tried something new and tried to shake things up. Not everything they do is targeted at me, I am not a card juggler, nor a sleight purist - so whatever, but I realize there is an audience for that & it serves those people and I move on.

I'm not backing the D-starter decks because:
a) I hate the drawer pull box
b) I hate the price point
c) I don't understand the premise of deckstarter

But it doesn't make me "despise" the Buck twins.

In fact, I harbor no ill feelings towards any of the magic houses. They are all trying to do new things, generate a following and make money - somewhere in all of that I have to find what works for me and to let the rest of it go. Some of it makes me laugh, some of it makes me shake my head... and some of it... makes me whip out my wallet. Sure some of it frustrates me, but that's part of the deal of any hobby. The fact that it frustrates me - confirms that it's my passion - but that doesn't make me walk away from a brand or bad mouth it. If anything it strengthens my relationship with the brand as we "work through it."

D&D puts out some of my favorite decks! Denim Smoke & Mirrors... oh man. And I love the new Magic Con deck! The fanback and steamboat reprints are some of the most beautiful tuck cases in my collection - oh and Fulton's Clip Joint....

What you said reflects my opinion perfectly.

[Mike Ratledge]

Limit of 750 decks...? Who's manufacturing these?

Thats D$D trying to create an artificial rarity. Obviously 5000 of each were printed if they already gave out 3000+ copies.

The problem is that they will never be rare, especially if there were 3000 given away for nothing. Just stupid business plan!

[Sher]

I could care less about D&D and haven't been collecting cards long enough to understand why the card community as a whole seems to despise these guys with a passion.

wow is that really true?

That's not true for me.

Dan & Dave had some of the very first collector decks I ever bought - not to mention that they were "2" of the original "theory 11." Personally I think all the "big houses" try to push the realm of magic and deck collecting into new arenas and not every idea is genius. At least D&D tried something new and tried to shake things up. Not everything they do is targeted at me, I am not a card juggler, nor a sleight purist - so whatever, but I realize there is an audience for that & it serves those people and I move on.

I'm not backing the D-starter decks because:
a) I hate the drawer pull box
b) I hate the price point
c) I don't understand the premise of deckstarter

But it doesn't make me "despise" the Buck twins.

In fact, I harbor no ill feelings towards any of the magic houses. They are all trying to do new things, generate a following and make money - somewhere in all of that I have to find what works for me and to let the rest of it go. Some of it makes me laugh, some of it makes me shake my head... and some of it... makes me whip out my wallet. Sure some of it frustrates me, but that's part of the deal of any hobby. The fact that it frustrates me - confirms that it's my passion - but that doesn't make me walk away from a brand or bad mouth it. If anything it strengthens my relationship with the brand as we "work through it."

D&D puts out some of my favorite decks! Denim Smoke & Mirrors... oh man. And I love the new Magic Con deck! The fanback and steamboat reprints are some of the most beautiful tuck cases in my collection - oh and Fulton's Clip Joint....

Yup. +1 to this.

Also, the two designers featured on deckstarter have impressive resumes, so I'm sure they know a lot about design. However, Like Paul said, designing playing cards can be quite different from designing logos or ads for big companies. Although they are very competent in their field, it doesn't mean they're necessarily good at designing a deck of cards. Of course, whether the design on a deck of cards is "good" is a matter of opinion, but at the same time this can be gauged by how successful it is at getting people to support it.

Limit of 750 decks...? Who's manufacturing these?

Thats D$D trying to create an artificial rarity. Obviously 5000 of each were printed if they already gave out 3000+ copies.

The problem is that they will never be rare, especially if there were 3000 given away for nothing. Just stupid business plan!

I don't like how misleading their statement is. Some people may be motivated to pledge simply because they believe the deck is somewhat rare (yes, I know that this shouldn't be the sole motivator for buying a deck, but it is a factor and it's sometimes the only factor to some people), when there are probably more than twice or three times as many as they thought.

[volantangel]

I dont despise D$D, i simply dont like the way they conduct their business.

This is based on the following points:
1. The constant recolours (S&M + their 10000 reprints anyone? Dont worry E is up there on this point)
2. The broken promises (End of S&M series with the V7, then comes S&M Gold, ok you are gonna say these were not sold, buts its S&M no?)
3. The disappointments (October & HMNIM deck with their repeated courts)
4. The lack of originality (Based on points 1 & 3)
5. The looking down on the industry (The nerve they had to give out 3000 of these decks and charge collectors $25 a deck and pose it as a Rare Edition, and the NERVE they had to call the Millman deck a masterpiece)
6. The dishonesty (Deckstarter is not a crowdfunding project, and they are simply doing this to jump on the bandwagon)

Ok after typing everything, maybe i do despise them a little, maybe a little more than a little

But thats just my opinion, you can love them, ill still love you

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

[Firthetic]

I'm actually a fan of Draplin/DDC and own some of his merchandise, but I will hate myself for supporting D&D's Deckstarter bullshittery. In any case, 3000 decks were given out, so maybe I'll find one in the wild.