UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

BMPokerworld wrote:

th4mo wrote:Is this new imagined site supposed to cover just playing card KS projects, or ALL KS projects?

If it's all of KS, than you are talking about a huge undertaking that i believe is way beyond the capabilities of a few talented amateurs in their spare time...

If it's just cards projects, and you want to:

-discuss the merits of various newly -launched KS projects
-spread the word about disreputable creators
-highlight and praise successful creators

well, i can think of a few websites already in existence that already do this, although without a formal rating system.

Actually we can do those same things because they people who would actually research that information are probably the members here.

Thanks!

That was actually my point, Mike.
Thanks for picking up on it!

As I expected, my initial complaint was met with a "No Answer, We'll get back to you":
Pretty much what I expected to happen until Monday "business hours". After all, if you'd made $44 million + off kickstarter pledges, you'd likely take weekends off, too.

So, who do we put on our initial "hit-list"? I know of two myself, but I am certain that there are more.

MagikFingerz wrote:If the goal is objectivity, the only thing that matters is that the product matches what is promised by the creator. That should probably be covered in the "project reviews" section anyway.

Whilst I agree - I'd be more inclined to praise someone higher if they promise the world and deliver, over someone who promises a deck made from cereal packets and crayons and delivers.

There must be an objective way of doing it - even if that means ignoring aesthetics (VERY subjective) and looking at manufacturing quality and functional design (can be defined, to a reasonable degree, objectively).

Hmm, that is a good point. Should be doable if the site will only look at decks of cards for the time being, at least that is easily defined for us. Maybe if/when the site is expanded to all kickstarters it'll have a community that can define other products as easily.

OK, I think we've had a good discussion, and I'm still looking for someone that's zealous like I am to code it up. I'll keep everyone advised of my progress - or lack thereof.

Just to bring this back current, I'm thinking about adding a new "sticky" thread for "Kickstarter lowlife", maybe just "Kickstarter disappointments" or something not too terribly "poke them in the eye", although that's exactly what it's intended to do.

I have a list of 4 or 5, maybe 6 - anybody want to add on?

Core, Vortex, Founders - surely all belong, as do several others.

Suggestions for the "hit parade"?

"Hall of shame" as a counterpoint to the Hall of Fame?

montecarlojoe wrote:"Hall of shame" as a counterpoint to the Hall of Fame?

Works for me. I'll just take the "Funded" ones out of that thread and create a new "Kickstarter Hall of Shame". Actually, I like that, Joe!

I like that too. So we have "Active Kickstaters", "Funded and waiting for shipment Kickstarters", "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", "Hall of Fame Kickstarters", and "Hall of Shame Kickstarters" That's 5 threads which would be a lot of work. I'm willing to help ratledge. Unsuccessful Kickstarters is an option. I actually get some information on not what to do with theses guys.... What do think the time should be for the Hall of Shame should it be 6 months from funding date? I think 6 months is plenty of time to roll out the decks...

sprouts1115 wrote:I like that too. So we have "Active Kickstaters", "Funded and waiting for shipment Kickstarters", "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", "Hall of Fame Kickstarters", and "Hall of Shame Kickstarters" That's 5 threads which would be a lot of work. I'm willing to help ratledge. Unsuccessful Kickstarters is an option. I actually get some information on not what to do with theses guys.... What do think the time should be for the Hall of Shame should it be 6 months from funding date? I think 6 months is plenty of time to roll out the decks...

Sounds about right, but maybe we should give them a little slide-room: make it 3 months plus what they stated or in other words 3 months overdue?

Hmm, I could pledge $1 for every card Kickstarter. We have what 40 successful ones a year and a bazillion that don't make it. When It hits the mark of 3 months over due. I could post on the comment section that this Kickstarter is in the "Hall of Shame" at the UC. That would in turn bring people here and hopefully some future deck makers that won't make the same mistakes...

Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

BMPokerworld wrote:Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.

volantangel wrote:

BMPokerworld wrote:Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.

Does it really matter? People were still going there when he owned it and Don doesn't breathe without Alex's permission.

Thanks!

EDIT: Alex shouldn't even be allowed on the forum to voice his opinion after ripping so many people off, he should be banned. For the record, Don sent Jay an email and said I talked it over with Alex and we would like to bury the hatchet. So Don may own it on paper, but Alex still controls it.

Interpreting "talked it over" with "reported to" or "got orders from" is a bit presumptious, isn't it?

As long as Alex never makes another deck, I don't see any problem with burying the hatchet.

MagikFingerz wrote:Interpreting "talked it over" with "reported to" or "got orders from" is a bit presumptious, isn't it?

As long as Alex never makes another deck, I don't see any problem with burying the hatchet.

Unfortunately your position on this is exactly the problem with the hobby right now. We let known thieves participate.

Thanks!

EDIT: Do you think all those people he ripped off feel the same way?

sprouts1115 wrote:I like that too. So we have "Active Kickstaters", "Funded and waiting for shipment Kickstarters", "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", "Hall of Fame Kickstarters", and "Hall of Shame Kickstarters" That's 5 threads which would be a lot of work. I'm willing to help ratledge. Unsuccessful Kickstarters is an option. I actually get some information on not what to do with theses guys.... What do think the time should be for the Hall of Shame should it be 6 months from funding date? I think 6 months is plenty of time to roll out the decks...

Well, we can do that pretty easily in two steps: if you'll create one for "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", I'll sticky it, and then I'll figure out how to whittle the "Successfully Funded" message into two parts, I guess. At least take those we move to the "Hall of Shame" from the "Successful" column out.

Looks like we cooked up a good 'ol sh*t storm with the comments last night! I'll have to report on the good side of things that this week I've gotten my Federal 52 Part 2 stuff, Empire from Kenzii (Lee McK), Lotrek's Venexiana decks, Chris' Day of the Dead "Cavaleras" decks and a replacement for a hurt deck from UUSI

An interesting wrinkle - the Kickstarter UI now allows a backer to tick off a check-box when they get their rewards.

At the moment, this just looks like a book-keeping entry for backers. But this could be the start of a better feedback loop inside Kickstarter.

Brillig wrote:An interesting wrinkle - the Kickstarter UI now allows a backer to tick off a check-box when they get their rewards.

At the moment, this just looks like a book-keeping entry for backers. But this could be the start of a better feedback loop inside Kickstarter.

Oddly enough, I just found that today myself, and wondered if I had maybe never dug that deep...

It's definitely recent - very handy tool!

I wonder if there's an api that can pull a feed of those stats (much like sites like kicktraq does) ?

It would be invaluable to the the kickback site...

That feature, along with any stats extrapolated from it, would be better if it was a "Received - Not received" option. As it is now, everyone who doesn't find out about this feature (or is too lazy to bother with it) will be counted as "Not received".

Please don't judge

So I just went through and checked off all the projects That I have received rewards for.
here are a few things I learned.
1. I have spent way too much money on Kickstarter over the past 2 years
2. I have backed 190 projects
3. 114 of them have been fulfilled.
4. 40 of them have not reached their "Due" date yet.
5. of the 36 that are late about 12 of them have been communicating and showing their progress giving me faith that they will probably fulfill the pledge.
6. Of the remaining 24 that are late and do not communicate 19 of them are playing card projects.
7. my pledges run about 50% board games 35% playing cards and 20% other.
8. Unfulfilled playing card projects account for 10% of all my pledged projects.
9. I have backed 67 playing card projects with 28% late and unfulfilled.
10. I have backed I have backed 95 boardgame projects with <1% late and unfulfilled
11. I have backed 28 other projects with 10% late and unfulfilled
12. The largest amount of money "lost" towards late and unfulfilled projects is in playing cards.

It appears to me that in my pledging interests the most risky area to back is playing card projects.
I am not 100% certain why this is, could be due to the minimal amount of effort, comparatively, needed to put into a playing card project to make it look legit. Or a higher degree of unscrupulous people involved in the playing card market (playing cards are used for gambling after all which is a sin).
But I feel the evidence is pretty clear.

OK, I know that I have seen this before (somewhere), but I can't find the discussion. As a starter, name a few candidates for the "Hall of Shame".

Right now I have Core, Vortex & Founders in stone and Army Men in the questionable category, and I know there were at least a couple more we talked about, but as I recall it was in one of the KS deck threads.

Asylum - Cards Due Dec 2012 - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/213 ... ying-cards
Gangsters - Cards Due Jul 2013 - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jay ... ying-cards
1616 Silver - Cards Due Sept 2013 - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/344 ... le-playing
A Victorian Adventure - Card Due Sept 2013 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/344 ... rds-uspcc/


Was going to post This one. He has not posted a Update since Sept 9th. 4 months is a bit long for an update to his backers. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gol ... from-vanda But when I read one of the comments there is some hope if he has the shipping funds:


Heather Brent on Dec 4
Hey Guys! I sent an email to USPC because I was getting worried about David and this project. Tiffany replied back and I am quoting it below. I hope this helps others as much as it helped calm my nerves about this project.
Hi Heather,
The decks have been produced and will be shipping out to David shortly. I believe he’s been traveling. They look great, excited for you to get them! Thanks so much and have a great day!!

Tiffany
Business Development Manager
The United States Playing Card Company


This one may be another from Adam. It flew under the radar. Notice you see a lot of people in the comment section saying they didn't get their cards and don't know a lot of people saying they did. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/one ... ?ref=users
Notice the damage control.

don't forget ultra-violet ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/144 ... m-beta17-0 )
and possibly Ruse ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gamesalute/ruse-1 ) although really it is only fitting if these don't deliver.

Thanks, guys! I found an interesting link to an article on Reddit.com about "Beware fraudulent kickstarter projects" and it looks like it started out being about "Founders" and degenerated into a free-for-all talking about everything KS. Good read! http://www.reddit.com/r/kickstarter/com ... _projects/

UtterFool wrote:Please don't judge

So I just went through and checked off all the projects That I have received rewards for.
here are a few things I learned.
1. I have spent way too much money on Kickstarter over the past 2 years
2. I have backed 190 projects
3. 114 of them have been fulfilled.
4. 40 of them have not reached their "Due" date yet.
5. of the 36 that are late about 12 of them have been communicating and showing their progress giving me faith that they will probably fulfill the pledge.
6. Of the remaining 24 that are late and do not communicate 19 of them are playing card projects.
7. my pledges run about 50% board games 35% playing cards and 20% other.
8. Unfulfilled playing card projects account for 10% of all my pledged projects.
9. I have backed 67 playing card projects with 28% late and unfulfilled.
10. I have backed I have backed 95 boardgame projects with <1% late and unfulfilled
11. I have backed 28 other projects with 10% late and unfulfilled
12. The largest amount of money "lost" towards late and unfulfilled projects is in playing cards.

It appears to me that in my pledging interests the most risky area to back is playing card projects.
I am not 100% certain why this is, could be due to the minimal amount of effort, comparatively, needed to put into a playing card project to make it look legit. Or a higher degree of unscrupulous people involved in the playing card market (playing cards are used for gambling after all which is a sin).
But I feel the evidence is pretty clear.

It is more than likely caused by a minimal amount of effort. The games require a lot more time and energy.

Thanks!

BMPokerworld wrote:

UtterFool wrote:It appears to me that in my pledging interests the most risky area to back is playing card projects.
I am not 100% certain why this is, could be due to the minimal amount of effort, comparatively, needed to put into a playing card project to make it look legit. Or a higher degree of unscrupulous people involved in the playing card market (playing cards are used for gambling after all which is a sin).
But I feel the evidence is pretty clear.

It is more than likely caused by a minimal amount of effort. The games require a lot more time and energy.

Interestingly enough, we were discussing the amount of projects that fulfill late for playing cards on KS, and the fact is that for the projects that were run in 2011 & 2012, the top funded projects ended up with 57% of them delivering after the date initially given in the project. The other side of the coin is that the overall average for KS is 87% of them being late.

Ivan (the author of the Kardify Analytics) is doing some interesting stuff, and in a week or two I'll be asking for input to help me put together a guest writer appearance on his site talking about the "Kickstarter Hall of Shame" for playing cards. You guys already gave me enough ammunition to get him started in that direction with the links in the past few messages and the ones that I already had on my *hit list.

I love the idea of tracking delivery "on time" projects and "late" ones. I've run and delivered 5 Kickstarter projects to date (not playing cards - 4 games, and a kids book). All were delivered on-time or early. It's a huge point of pride for my small group as some projects NEVER deliver and a massive % are late. We once air-shipped product from China, totally destroying all our margin, to deliver on time. It was brutal, but I refused to be late.

There are reasonable reasons for being late (I always tell folks, I'm one bus hitting me away from being late), but it would be nice to have a public record. I'd even allow project creators to post their reason for being late.

The best part about a site like the one you are proposing is that it would encourage new project creators to learn enough before launching.

Lukeout wrote:I love the idea of tracking delivery "on time" projects and "late" ones. I've run and delivered 5 Kickstarter projects to date (not playing cards - 4 games, and a kids book). All were delivered on-time or early. It's a huge point of pride for my small group as some projects NEVER deliver and a massive % are late. We once air-shipped product from China, totally destroying all our margin, to deliver on time. It was brutal, but I refused to be late.

There are reasonable reasons for being late (I always tell folks, I'm one bus hitting me away from being late), but it would be nice to have a public record. I'd even allow project creators to post their reason for being late.

The best part about a site like the one you are proposing is that it would encourage new project creators to learn enough before launching.

Well, without giving anything away - I'm thinking that Mike's idea that we could host the "Kick Backer" project right here on UC. It sure sounds like a plan to me. Now, I still am going to need someone to do some of the fancy footwork (i.e. coding) in the background to turn the raw data into graphics and tables, etc.