UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Hey Guys,

I know it's been a few days since I've posted anything. I just wanted to give a quick update. I've been doing a lot of research into shipping and I think I've found a way to keep the costs a lot lower than my initial expectations. You'd be surprised how much a bubble mailer can cost. I'm still looking into some options but I'm pretty confident that I can keep the price low enough to keep just about everyone happy.

As far as additional backer rewards go, I've designed a few posters to go along with the set. I'll be getting them printed locally so I'll be able to keep the cost on these low as well. Still working out the final pricing on these though.

What do you think of these? I had some test prints done on heavy glossy paper and they turned out pretty nice. I'm getting a few done on matte and satin stock as well to compare.


I'm still looking into other backer rewards, but like I've said from the beginning I really want to keep this campaign straightforward to avoid any complications. I'll get a little crazier with the next one I do.

Also, I have a couple sample decks arriving this afternoon. Once I get a chance to take some pictures I'll post them here.

Thanks again for the feedback everyone. It really is appreciated!

OtsegoDoom wrote:Hey Guys,


As far as additional backer rewards go, I've designed a few posters to go along with the set. I'll be getting them printed locally so I'll be able to keep the cost on these low as well. Still working out the final pricing on these though.

What do you think of these? I had some test prints done on heavy glossy paper and they turned out pretty nice. I'm getting a few done on matte and satin stock as well to compare.


I'm still looking into other backer rewards, but like I've said from the beginning I really want to keep this campaign straightforward to avoid any complications. I'll get a little crazier with the next one I do.

Also, I have a couple sample decks arriving this afternoon. Once I get a chance to take some pictures I'll post them here.

Thanks again for the feedback everyone. It really is appreciated!

Make sure you check into the pricing for the posters, Albino Dragon failed to check this on their 1st campain and they had to come back the the backers and ask for $4 from all of us to get the posters shipped out.

DukeBoy wrote: Make sure you check into the pricing for the posters, Albino Dragon failed to check this on their 1st campain and they had to come back the the backers and ask for $4 from all of us to get the posters shipped out.

Thanks for the head's up. The last thing I want to do is come back to everyone after they've already backed the project and ask for more money. I'd sooner eat the extra cost than do that. That being said, I've been doing a lot of research into costs and shipping methods. I've managed to source some extremely cheap (cost, not quality) shipping materials so that should help keep the shipping costs down quite a bit.

So, I decided to get a couple sample decks printed from http://www.makeplayingcards.com. I'm still heavily leaning towards having the decks printed by USPCC, but I wanted to have a printed copy of the deck just to see how it would look and feel. Having been a digital artist for the last 15 years, I've gotta say it's pretty awesome to hold a physical copy of something I designed.

Here's how the decks turned out:

*The pictures aren't the greatest. My camera is starting to show its age.*

300gsm (Smooth)

The cheapest material option. These ones actually had the best colour reproduction and didn't have any of the scratches or missing ink that the other materials had.

A close-up showing the smooth finish of these cards.

310gsm (Linen)

The next step up in materials (according to price). These cards are slightly thicker and have a cloth-like finish. The colours came out a little darker on these ones.

A close-up showing the cloth-like finish of these cards. If you look really closely you can see some discolouration around the edges.

100% Plastic

The 100% plastic cards. These cards are much thicker than the others and have an extremely smooth finish. The colours on these were kinda washed out compared to the others.

A close-up showing the smooth finish of these cards as well as scratches and missing ink. I'm not sure if all plastic cards are prone to this, but some cards had significant amounts of ink scratched off them right out of the box.

Overall I think it was a pretty good experiment, but I was kinda disappointed with the quality. Considering I only had 3 decks printed, there were a lot of issues (more than I expected at least). Are plastic cards prone to losing their ink, or were these ones just poorly made?

Anyway, I just thought I'd share these samples with you guys and see what you think. I'm still finalizing some of the details of the campaign and hope to have it go live in the next couple of weeks!

As always, feedback is appreciated!

That's quite interesting and also very informative.

As far as I know, MPC prints samples digitally. When you order 1000 or more they switch to offset printing. I know a guy who is currently sampling with several printers including MPC. What's interesting is that his deck is black cards as well and he said the MPC deck looks fantastic. I'll see if he can send me some pics. Of all the alternate printers he's tried so far, he's said MPC is currently on the lead.

I actually have two prototype MPC decks an artist gifted me and they look fantastic. Granted theyre not completely black but the printing is great back and front.
So I've got two designers saying MPC is great and one showing its not so much. Point to USPCC for consistency I suppose.

The indexes on the 10s look like they are either too close to the left or too far down.

I've been looking into it and I think I'm going to offer coins as a stretch goal for the campaign. I'm working on a couple of designs at the moment and should have something to show later tonight.

Free time has been hard to come by lately, so it's taking me a little longer to get this campaign off the ground than I had hoped. It should be going live very soon though!

I put together a mock-up of what the uncut sheets that will be offered during the campaign will look like:


After seeing the whole deck together I started thinking that maybe the design on the back of the cards was a little heavy compared to the front. I put together an alternate version that uses similar line weights and spacing compared to the court cards.

What do you think of the alternate version of the card back compared to the old version?

I for one actually enjoy the simplicity of this deck including the court cards. Looks good to me. Good luck.

I think both back designs are fine, and I would be happy with either.

The alternate version looks nicer as a fan, but rather than the first version looking heavier, I think the second one does. However, it still works for me. Something about the new version seems more clever and intricate, whereas the original version seems simpler and cleaner.

Truly, I think either one is fine.

I agree with what rousselle said, but I do like to fan so my vote goes to the new one. I also like it slightly better because it is the actual logo, and not just lines from it.

Thanks for the feedback guys! I appreciate it. I think I'm going to go with the new design for the card backs, since I've gotten a lot of positive feedback about it.

I've just got a few more last minute details to sort out, and then I should be submitting the campaign for Kickstarter to review. It's taken a lot of work to get to this point, and I couldn't be happier with how things are turning out!

OtsegoDoom wrote:So, I decided to get a couple sample decks printed from http://www.makeplayingcards.com. I'm still heavily leaning towards having the decks printed by USPCC, but I wanted to have a printed copy of the deck just to see how it would look and feel. Having been a digital artist for the last 15 years, I've gotta say it's pretty awesome to hold a physical copy of something I designed.

how long did it take for the decks to be shipped to you? I ordered prototype decks myself and I recieved an e-mail 4 weeks ago telling me that my decks were shipped. I haven't got them yet, though.

Mirror wrote: how long did it take for the decks to be shipped to you? I ordered prototype decks myself and I recieved an e-mail 4 weeks ago telling me that my decks were shipped. I haven't got them yet, though.

I think the whole process only took about 3 weeks from the time I placed the order until they arrived on my doorstep. I paid for express shipping so I could get things sooner, but there was a delay in printing my cards so by the time I actually got them it would have been the same if they shipped on time with regular (i.e. much cheaper) shipping. Since they're coming from China though, there's a good chance they can get held up in customs. Did you get a tracking number with your order?

Hey Everyone,

Here's a preview of the coin I've been designing to go along with this deck.


Being a poker player, this coin is definitely casino inspired. I haven't quite settled on a final material for it yet either. I'm debating between high luster pewter, or an antique bronzey sort of finish.

I'll put together a fancier render when I'm ready to call the design finished. I just wanted to get some feedback from you guys first to see what you think.

Now live
Updated first post

This is interesting. Will star it for now.

I feel bad for international people. 6 bucks to ship I am skipping this one. I think If I was international I would pass up on a lot more decks coming from the US.

I would really like to see this project succeed, and I have pledged for three decks, but yes, the international rates to ship to the US is... yikes. If the project doesn't succeed, I suspect a second attempt will be more likely to work out if there's a US distribution, bypassing the international shipping fees for US backers, a la Venexiana and Empire. (Hey, Mike Lambert, how far away is Vaughan from Seattle? )

Well, obviously to all the U.S. folk experiencing sticker shock at $6/deck shipping... Welcome to our world.

And $9 for 2 decks or $12 for 3 decks is downright cheap compared to what many U.S. projects charge.

Does anyone know if USPCC would be willing to drop-ship some significant portion of a print run to a U.S. distribution site in such a case?

80% -> U.S., 20% -> Canada or whatever?

Casual Pixels wrote:Well, obviously to all the U.S. folk experiencing sticker shock at $6/deck shipping... Welcome to our world.

And $9 for 2 decks or $12 for 3 decks is downright cheap compared to what many U.S. projects charge.

Does anyone know if USPCC would be willing to drop-ship some significant portion of a print run to a U.S. distribution site in such a case?

80% -> U.S., 20% -> Canada or whatever?

As I stated I feel bad for you guys outside of the US. I am just spoiled with free shipping....

I have seen campaigns fail if outside of the US as a large portion of the backers are from the states.

I miss the days when shipping to Canada was almost the same as shipping within the US.

S

6 $ is an instant deal for me as I have to pay around 12 (at least) for every deck I'm ordering :/

Tricky wrote:6 $ is an instant deal for me as I have to pay around 12 (at least) for every deck I'm ordering :/

Just the postage for 1 deck, shipped USPS international first class, is about $12. And you still need an envelope, bubble wrap, label…

True, but realising this doesn't make customers' life easier.

Btw waiting for my Aurum bundle to arrive

Hi Everyone,

Out of respect for the forum owner, I haven't posted since the forum rules changed a while back. Out of respect for all of you who have follwed my project and given feedback or even backed it, I feel I should at least address your questions.

First, I really appreciate the feedback. Shipping costs have been a big concern for me from day one, so I've put a lot of time and consideration into them. I just wanted to explain a bit of my thought process so you can see where I'm coming from.

There's two parts to shipping a package, the postage and the shipping materials. Sometimes the cost of the shipping materials is higher than the cost of postage itself. I've gone to half a dozen different manufacturers to try and get the lowest priced shipping materials. Note I said lowest priced, rather than cheap. There's no point in saving a few bucks through buying cheap, flimsy shipping materials if it's not going to protect the package. That being said, the materials I've gone with will cost a fair bit less than what most people would pay because I'm getting them straight from the source. It pays to know people in manufacturing I've also registered a business name so that I could apply for a bulk business mail discount through the Canadian Postal Service. Those two things combined have allowed me to knock off a lot from the overall shipping cost. Now that being said, there's only so much I can do to reduce costs.

I just backed two very successful card campaigns. With one campaign a single deck cost $24 USD, and another campaign a single deck cost $23 USD both included international shipping. Compared to my campaign it's less than $18 USD (after the CAD exchange rate) for a single deck with international shipping. The only difference is that a large portion of my backers will be considered international, since they're from the US. When it comes to international shipping costs, Kickstarter isn't very flexible. It only allows me to have one shipping rate for everything outside of Canada. That makes it a tricky balance between affordable shipping for people in the US, and not losing too much money on shipping overseas. As is, I'll be losing money on most overseas shipping, but I'm not too concerned about that since most of my backers are coming from the US.

I've looked into having the shipment from USPCC broken up into two locations but there's a pretty hefty extra cost for that. I made the decision that trying to raise the extra funds to cover that extra cost would hurt the campaign, rather than benefit it. Since this is my first campaign I really want to get a feel for the whole process, including shipping. That way the next time I will know why I'm paying someone to distribute my cards

Anyway, I just wanted to explain my thought process on this shipping costs for my campaign. I completely understand if the extra cost puts off some potential backers. I hope that those who are on the fence about backing will give the project some consideration.

I'm also working on some stretch goals which include a custom deck seal, upgraded tuck case, upgraded card finish, and even an alternate version of the NOX deck, titled LUX. I'll have previews of those coming up in the next couple of days. This however, will probably be my last post on the forum unless the rules change.

If you want to follow updates on my campaign you can either check out the campaign page itself, or follow me on Facebook or Twitter.
Thank you to everyone who has supported my deck so far! Your support is truly appreciated!

Mike.

I get it your from Canada and you want to give a discount on international shipping. So international shipping should be 1)USA 2) Anywhere in the world 3) Australia. It's that simple....

sprouts1115 wrote:I get it your from Canada and you want to give a discount on international shipping. So international shipping should be 1)USA 2) Anywhere in the world 3) Australia. It's that simple....

It might be cause I haven't slept much in the last couple of days but I'm having trouble understanding your reply. Can you elaborate more on what you mean please?

I know there have been US kickstarter projects with different shipping rates for Canada and the rest of the world, no idea on the specifics tho.

OtsegoDoom wrote:

sprouts1115 wrote:I get it your from Canada and you want to give a discount on international shipping. So international shipping should be 1)USA 2) Anywhere in the world 3) Australia. It's that simple....

It might be cause I haven't slept much in the last couple of days but I'm having trouble understanding your reply. Can you elaborate more on what you mean please?

Don't worry, it's not due to your lack of sleep. I can't figure out what is meant above... but then I appear to be from somehere that isn't 'anywhere in the world'...