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I was browsing Wil's website and saw the blog post about the Blue Cohorts by EG. I left a comment and I would suggest EG write a new article on his findings and correspondence from E. As the blog post still shows this blatantly deceptive picture and all the review and praise that goes with it.

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STLBluesNut wrote:I was browsing Wil's website and saw the blog post about the Blue Cohorts by EG. I left a comment and I would suggest EG write a new article on his findings and correspondence from E. As the blog post still shows this blatantly deceptive picture and all the review and praise that goes with it.

Earlier in this thread I wrote that I liked the E7 stock and the deck itself, and that I would be writing a positive review of it. That blog post (just published) is that very article.

I stand by what I wrote in the article, which is primarily about Cartamundi card stocks, not Ellusionist. It already states: "The product image from Ellusionist exaggerates the difference between the two decks, but even so it is thinner than a typical Bicycle deck with thin-crush stock." As the article mentions, the actual difference is around 6 cards: "When placed beside a deck of B9 card stock, you'll have to remove about six cards from the B9 deck to end up with a deck that is the same thickness as a complete E7 deck."

It's not the deck that I have an issue with, just the Ellusionist marketing (which I became more and more aware of after the article was written). The good news is that I found out yesterday from Ellusionist, in response to my further inquiries about their "exclusive", that they only had a 6 month exclusive on the E7 stock. That will expire soon, so in coming months we can expect Cartamundi to produce decks with the E7 stock for a variety of other creators and publishers. That's a positive thing, and I think a lot of people will really warm up to the E7 card stock as an alternative to Bicycle thin-crush stock.

STLBluesNut wrote: I would suggest EG write a new article on his findings and correspondence from E.

I've actually been working on a new article that does exactly this. Your comment has encouraged me to publish it. You'll find it here:

False Advertising: An exercise in exposing a misleading product picture

It's all good EG. I know you and Wil are stand up dudes. I just saw this picture on IG posted by PCD. I just would not like to see you or Wil be adversely affected by having this picture posted like you guys are semi endorsing it.

I agree it is the marketing and not the stock or the deck itself that is the problem.

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EndersGame wrote:

STLBluesNut wrote:I was browsing Wil's website and saw the blog post about the Blue Cohorts by EG. I left a comment and I would suggest EG write a new article on his findings and correspondence from E. As the blog post still shows this blatantly deceptive picture and all the review and praise that goes with it.

Earlier in this thread I wrote that I liked the E7 stock and the deck itself, and that I would be writing a positive review of it. That blog post (just published) is that very article.

I stand by what I wrote in the article, which is primarily about Cartamundi card stocks, not Ellusionist. It already states: "The product image from Ellusionist exaggerates the difference between the two decks, but even so it is thinner than a typical Bicycle deck with thin-crush stock." As the article mentions, the actual difference is around 6 cards: "When placed beside a deck of B9 card stock, you'll have to remove about six cards from the B9 deck to end up with a deck that is the same thickness as a complete E7 deck."

It's not the deck that I have an issue with, just the Ellusionist marketing (which I became more and more aware of after the article was written). The good news is that I found out yesterday from Ellusionist, in response to my further inquiries about their "exclusive", that they only had a 6 month exclusive on the E7 stock. That will expire soon, so in coming months we can expect Cartamundi to produce decks with the E7 stock for a variety of other creators and publishers. That's a positive thing, and I think a lot of people will really warm up to the E7 card stock as an alternative to Bicycle thin-crush stock.

I have to say that this makes me really happy. I remove 8 cards from my 310 to reach more or less the same thickness as a regular 52-card deck, being able to use all the cards will be awesome. B9 is my favorite finish so I'll enjoy having a thinner one.

Someone on youtube has made a 20 minute video discussing this issue. I have no connection with this youtuber, and didn't even know this was happening. But if you've been following this thread, you might enjoy checking this out. I think it's a very fair treatment of the issue, and everything that transpired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFtEoeUzsow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



My aim was not to bash Ellusionist, and in all honesty I do really like the new thin E7 stock of the Blue Cohorts deck. But I also like the truth. When you bend the truth that much in your advertising, and then add some poor customer service to the mix, you need to be called out and have other people know about it.

My initial posts on this issue gave Ellusionist every opportunity to correct things and make it right, so it has been their own choice to get entrenched in their truth-bending.

It was a good video. Inthink that the difference in the number of cards in each deck is a bit glossed over, somewhat dismissed. That is my biggest issue. Not the angles of the decks and photo to exaggerate the difference. The fact that 14 cards are missing from the blue deck is what makes it look so small, not the angle or the arrows on the picture.

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EndersGame created an international incident....Good Job!

I am quite pleased he used the Father Ted clip

PigCake Touched on this also in his recent livestream:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WtB046 ... bcastemail[/youtube]

I ordered E7 Cohorts and will replace this image as soon as I receive it.

But for now, crushed stock is 90% marketing anyway. Also, Cartamundi stock is not that thick.

On the photo: NEO (Crushed Bee stock), NEO:WAVE (Cartamundi), Bicycle Rider back.

Crushed USPCC vs Cartamundi = 4 cards
Crushed USPCC vs USPCC = 2 cards
Cartamundi vs USPCC = 2 cards

montenzi wrote:Cartamundi stock is not that thick.

... it is way too soft though .

I don't think that comparing stacks next to each other using the naked eye is a good enough measure and took a more scientific approach and used calipers ... these are the results I got...

New Cohorts - 0.26mm
Crushed Bee Stock - 0.28mm
Regular Bicycle Stock - 0.30mm
Cartamundi B9 Stock - 0.31mm

Crushed Bee Stock is definitely thin stock, but the new E7 stock is even thinner and has a much nicer snap, especially compared to the softness of the B9 stock

shermjack wrote:Crushed Bee Stock is definitely thin stock, but the new E7 stock is even thinner and has a much nicer snap...

Wait a sec. Better snap than chrushed bee stock? Seriously?

shiroo56 wrote:

shermjack wrote:Crushed Bee Stock is definitely thin stock, but the new E7 stock is even thinner and has a much nicer snap...

Wait a sec. Better snap than chrushed bee stock? Seriously?

Oops, sorry...though it is very snappy, I don't know if it is a better snap than the Bee Crushed Stock (as I am not a cardist), but it definitely has much more snap than the Knights with the B9 finish, which is more of what I was referring to

How much of the snap has to do with the finish?

Btw, Cartamundi does have an official name for the finish: B9 Slimline Finish.
E7 is just a made up name Ellusionist used to false-advertise the finish being exclusively made for them. I'd ditch the E7 name and go with B9 Slimline for a more correct and official term.

macstrat wrote:How much of the snap has to do with the finish?

I would say marginal to nothing. The paper stock is the most influential factor for card snap. Chrushed card stock is denser than non chrushed stock, therefore stiffer/snappier.

Decknowledgy wrote:Btw, Cartamundi does have an official name for the finish: B9 Slimline Finish.
E7 is just a made up name Ellusionist used to false-advertise the finish being exclusively made for them. I'd ditch the E7 name and go with B9 Slimline for a more correct and official term.

That is a bit off an over-exaggoration now! If you call that false advertising, then we would have to call out USPC and Cartamundi for terms like B9 true linen finish or the terms linoid finish and cambric finish aswell. Cartamundi confirmed that Ellusionist had the exclusive rights to use the stock/finish for 6 months and Ellusionist never claimed that they have the exclusive rights for eternity. At the time they advertised the stock/finish as their exclusive, it was and still is for now (June 28th).

E just released a V2 of the Read Cohorts "Printed on luxury E7 stock."
"These WILL be a continued staple for Ellusionist, but for right now Red Cohorts V2s are only available in a limited quantity. So don't hesitate."

Available here for $8 plus shipping: https://www.ellusionist.com/cohorts-red ... cards.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;