2018 'Deck of the Year' Awards: DISCUSSION

[montenzi]

I or NEO:Wave Ultra by Montenzi

My decks should be excluded (forever) from all DOTY contests. This year accidental votes should be voided or awarded to the Cartomancer deck by Alain Benoit ( https://www.cartomancercards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) Have never seen a better deck so far. I am voting for this deck in all nominations. Thanks

[Merlebird]

I'm of the opinion that "Best Pips" should remain. I may not have bought any decks specifically for their pip design, but pip layouts have attracted me to decks I otherwise might've passed over. (Eric Duan's Puppet & Kite are my go-to example for this.) I want to see more designers, of all levels of experience, encouraged to rethink and experiment with the standard pips and layouts, and I think closing this award category would be a step backwards in that regard.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm going to be donating something for the upcoming contest. I'm not sure what, yet, though. Could be a brick of rare decks, could be a Venexiana Gold deck, could be a box of cat poop...

[Merlebird]

I'm going to be donating something for the upcoming contest. I'm not sure what, yet, though. Could be a brick of rare decks, could be a Venexiana Gold deck, could be a box of cat poop...

Two questions: will Fred Armisen serve it to me, and will I get a big steak afterwards?

[Magic Tapp]

I'm going to be donating something for the upcoming contest. I'm not sure what, yet, though. Could be a brick of rare decks, could be a Venexiana Gold deck, could be a box of cat poop...

So - Schroedinger's Cat Poop paradox? Is it a bird, erm, brick? Is it a gold deck? No, it's cat poop from 2p...

By the by, that would be a great prize for the worst deck/Raspberry category...

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm going to be donating something for the upcoming contest. I'm not sure what, yet, though. Could be a brick of rare decks, could be a Venexiana Gold deck, could be a box of cat poop...

Two questions: will Fred Armisen serve it to me, and will I get a big steak afterwards?

If I choose the cat poop; no and maybe. It's up to the recipient to acquire and cook the steak.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm going to be donating something for the upcoming contest. I'm not sure what, yet, though. Could be a brick of rare decks, could be a Venexiana Gold deck, could be a box of cat poop...

So - Schroedinger's Cat Poop paradox? Is it a bird, erm, brick? Is it a gold deck? No, it's cat poop from 2p...

By the by, that would be a great prize for the worst deck/Raspberry category...

The decision will be made prior to voting. You won't be receiving a "Mystery Box". It might be a Tendril Ascendant Special Edition deck. It might be a set of Bicycle MetalLuxe Prototype decks. Idk. I might donate more than 1 prize because of all the excessive crap that I have here...

[wingedpotato]

I agree that there are quite a lot of categories and, having sooooo many decks to have been released this year, it's intimidating to even know where to start. But, if I had to eliminate, change, or merge any of them, this is how I would if it were up to me (ones in red are those categories I would eliminate altogether):

• Best Ace of Spades
• Best Back
• Best Courts
• Best Pips (don't get me wrong, I love me some nice pips just as much as the next guy, but, IMHO, I don't imagine many people are getting decks based solely on the amazing design of a custom pip so I don't see the point in voting for a deck based on that alone.)
• Best Jokers
• Best Gaff/Extra Card
• Best Use of Colours in a Deck (just seems excessive to me)
• Best Deck for Fanning & Flourishing
• Best Deck for Magic
• Best Uncut (I can't imagine many decks that would only win best uncut and not any of the other categories... just seems kinda redundant IMHO)
• Best Tuck
• Best Coin (only because I'd wanna keep this contest just about decks; otherwise, sooner or later, other add-ons would also have to be up for consideration as well and, let's face it, that's not why were all in this hobby to begin with, amiright?)
• Best Innovation
• Best Crowdfunding project (I just don't like this category; first off, because it's going to be quite subjective from person to person and there's a lot of other, unrelated factors that can play a role in choosing one over another and second, because if the deck design is great on it's own, it'll be a strong contender for any of the other categories anyways, so this just feels unnecessary)
• Best Rookie Deck
• Best Non-Poker Deck (if the deck is not best for poker, not best for magic and not best for fanning, than why not just rename this category "Best custom deck")
• Best Deck for Poker Play
• Best Overall

Now, this is all just how I would personally narrow down the number of categories from 19 to 13 (if we all even choose to make any changes and/or do so at all); some might think this is too much and others might think it's not enough, but it's just my own thoughts and brief rationale on the matter for why I would eliminate the categories in red

I would however suggest maybe considering to add the category of ‘Best Branded Deck’ – This would be where, for example, JR’s Tally Ho: Olive Edition or the Tally Ho: Cardistry Edition or any new Bicycle branded decks to have hit the market whether through KS projects or directly to retail would be contenders for recognition. I feel that these decks, considering that most of them (with the exception of JR's Legacy Edition) are typically designed with much more simple features, are not given quite the love they deserve despite often being some of the first decks people are exposed to from early on and the affordability and accessibility such mass produced branded decks provide to the market for collectors, magicians, cardists & game players alike. Plus, unlike many of the other categories, this would be one with such a defined parameter that a vast majority of decks released this past year just won’t qualify and make voting, IMHO, A LOT easier when having to select only from among the few that do. Also, I admit I gotta bit of a soft spot for the 'ol classics lol

I agree with PipChick's cut suggestions EXCEPT I would keep Best Pips and Best Use of Color. I think both of those achievements should be recognized. I like the idea of Best Branded Deck and wonder if there should be a Best Series/Continuation of a Series. Best Use of Foil would be a good category to just hand to Lotrek every year.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I think that we need to rid of "Best Coin" and "Best Crowdfunding Project".

[Smocito]

I would change Best Ace of Spades to Best Power Ace or simply Best Ace.

I don't know if this category already includes other aces...

[MagikFingerz]

Thoughts on Best Series: I'm not against recognizing a good series, but I don't like it due to practicality. First entry of the series released this year = whole series eligable? Or last entry? And what makes it a series, simply 2+ versions? Can a single project with 4 versions of a deck be considered a series, or do the versions need to be spread out over several releases/projects? Do color swap versions qualify as a series?

I honestly have no good answers here.

[JuFiN]

I would define a series as atleast 3 decks released in atleast two seperate batches. So the Helius decks and the Planets decks come to mind. It is tricky though as you said considering series span more than just one year, but I would say if it had a new edition this year it ought to be eligible. So virtuoso fontaine Noc would all be eligible. However I would add the caveat that we should judge based on the decks released this year and not the series as a whole otherwise there is the obvious issue of the same series winning every year.

I do think it could be a really good category to recognize some decks that may not individually win any category but as a series make up a fantastic set. The planets decks are the example that comes to mind for me where each individual deck might not be #1 in any category but as a set they make up a fantastic edition to any collection worthy of recognition.

Part of why the planets series might not win any other category is that its 8 decks that will be cannibalizing each other for votes in categories such as best courts, allowing a set to as a whole compete for an award off sets this inherent disadvantage that could lead to really nice decks going under the radar.

At first it might seem like a category without a lot of competition but looking around my collection I can think of quite a few series.

Nocs
Fontaine
Cherry Casino
Virtuoso
Planets
Bicycle Natural disaster
Bicycle constellations
The World tour series from Vanishing inc
Tally-Ho #13 (olive edition)
Helius
RAVN
HoneyBees
And if you allow for series that all were funded at once you could include a lot of Stockholm 17 and Thirdway Industries Releases.

[montenzi]

Set a limit to 200 voters min. Otherwise you'll get same 15 voters like last year. This contest is 100% joke for me. Don't waste your time even to discuss rules when only 15 out of 3000 UC members vote

[sinjin7]

Set a limit to 200 voters min. Otherwise you'll get same 15 voters like last year. This contest is 100% joke for me. Don't waste your time even to discuss rules when only 15 out of 3000 UC members vote

So instead of mocking the people here at UC for the hard work they put into this contest, maybe the better course of action is to try to be part of the solution to making the Deck of the Year Contest more successful. Otherwise just step out of the way.

[PipChick]

Set a limit to 200 voters min. Otherwise you'll get same 15 voters like last year. This contest is 100% joke for me. Don't waste your time even to discuss rules when only 15 out of 3000 UC members vote

I completely understand your frustrations about turn out last year and, I'll admit, that having joined up here at UC last year just short before the contest was scheduled to come to a close, I personally felt overwhelmed and intimidated to even try to vote and ended up not doing so to great regret seeing how the voting turned out - I think I even PM'ed ya at the time 'bout it because I shared many of your same sentiments & feelings and mentioned that I'd be sure to be keeping a track of what decks are released with this exact contest in mind for when it rolled around the next year. This time around, I will be sure to vote and, while I (nor anyone else) can force other members to vote - and it is pretty pathetic when such a vast majority choose not to since we all obviously want this contest to be successful and to actually mean something - I'm hoping that active engagement and early promotion will help encourage people to participate. Plus, if people feel like they're part of the process and have a say in how it's run from the get-go, it's a pretty good start to fostering excitement to actually vote when the time comes. Of course, there's always going to be room for improvement, but isn't it kinda cool that people are taking interest now to work together in finding ways to do so?

Btw, both projects of the NEO series had a really great year and I personally hope to see them get recognized for your amazing work on them; so let's try to keep this whole thing positive and leave our feelings about last year's turn out in the past and move forward with this year's contest

[Bradius]

Understand that we are looking at over 200 decks issued this year. Even trying to consider them all is a daunting task, especially for more than one or two categories. Anyway, I am going to vote this year as best I can.

There is absolutely no way we are going to get 200 people minimum to vote. To even suggest requiring it, renders this whole effort meaningless and further diminishes those that do make the effort to vote. Frankly, I think those that voted last year and in prior years did a great job.

[montenzi]

So instead of mocking the people here at UC for the hard work they put into this contest, maybe the better course of action is to try to be part of the solution to making the Deck of the Year Contest more successful. Otherwise just step out of the way.

Sure.

1. remove prizes for voters
2. lock all profiles for 2-4 weeks after voting deadline if they have not voted
3. dont allow to login and post comments 1 months before the deadline without voting. Vote first then post.

@PipChick no frustrations here. It's just all wrong. I told same last year.

And know what - I don't understand how some designers advertize their winning after receiving votes from just 15 members. This is what I call a joke.

p.s. I don't really care about results as my decks must be excluded anyway. But I'll vote.

[JuFiN]

1. remove prizes for voters
.

This guy wants more people to vote but wants to remove the main intensive to do so. [MURRAY]

[montenzi]

1. remove prizes for voters
.

This guy wants more people to vote but wants to remove the main intensive to do so. [MURRAY]

Main intensive is to say THANKS to designers who spent months to design their decks.

[Merlebird]

This guy wants more people to vote but wants to remove the main incentive to do so. [MURRAY]

I think I'm more concerned with his proposal to actively exclude and punish non-voting users by revoking their login access and posting privileges for two months. What point does it serve to increase the voting percentage of UC members if you chase off most of the user base doing it? If the experience you're offering is all stick and no carrot, why would anyone participate at all?

Main incentive is to say THANKS to designers who spent months to design their decks.

They already thanked the designers by buying their decks, dude. They don't owe them adulation in exchange for the privilege of access to a forum that the designers neither fund nor administer.

[montenzi]

They already thanked the designers by buying their decks, dude. They don't owe them adulation in exchange for the privilege of access to a forum that the designers neither fund nor administer.

So this contest is all about receiving awards for voring. LOL

ok. It's a PHPBB forum. You can install something like this https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2460191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are some mods for reminders and to make polls mandatory. If you want more users to vote just do it.

[Bradius]

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. However, we will have to disagree strongly on this. I do a lot of behavior changing stuff. It is not easy to motivate people that don't want to be motivated. The best is when they do it to participate as a group and through group encouragement and support. Other efforts, especially a stick work badly to not at all. The possible exception to this is a survival instinct when survival is at stake. Removing those that don't will just mean fewer members, which diminishes comments here even further, limiting the value this forum has for collectors, cardist and deck creators. I like prizes as possible rewards to those that do vote. I also like that more than a few of the prizes are from each other, and not creators. I do agree with you that this is a lot about us taking time to recognize deck artists for their hard work. It is one way that collectors and cardists can recognize them for exceptional work. I like that it is not a huge group. In which case, it would be more about the biggest selling decks and not those that really made exceptional decks.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm disappointed in you, Montenzi. The collaborators of the project, the generosity of those who donate prizes, and the efforts of members to support voting for great decks should not go unnoticed. As much as I'm sure we would all like to have a minimum of 200 voters, that's simply an unnecessary mandate. Some people do not have the time, and just aren't that interested, in voting comprehensively. I don't want members just throwing names into a hat and picking names at random for each category. That would be detrimental to the validity of the contest and its winners (for designers and users).

Suggesting to remove prizes would definitely decrease voting outcome. People are nice enough not only to donate prizes out of the 'kindness of their hearts', but a lot of GREAT prizes, too. The world needs more generosity like this. To deter not only this generosity, but the numeric outcome of the votes, is entirely contradicting to your own sentiment (of increasing votes).

Locking profiles? Are we fascist Germany? Why would anyone here be interested in punishing those who don't have time, or interest, in the contest? How does this garner additional future interest for the contest? I could tell you right now that I probably wouldn't come back to this site EVER again if I couldn't interact for 2-4 weeks. This is another contradictory idea to your suggested increase for voting.

Similar to the above, what does locking logins do for the contest and this community..? New decks are still being launched and released, decks are still being reviewed, sales are still being posted, magic is still being shared, etc etc etc. You want to kill UC for an entire month just to deliberate votes for 1 contest? This is absolutely asinine. Insane. Ricockulous.

You have a few decent decks out there, but I certainly won't be voting for them. I know that you said similar things last year, but you just don't make any sense here.

Regardless of how "few" voters turn out, it's still an honor for a community to bestow a title of greatness upon your decks. JR, Alex Chin, Lorenzo, etc have all deserved the designations that this community has imposed on their works of art. You should be ashamed for belittling our collected admiration for the works of your field of art.

[montenzi]

TwoPiece, I am probably not a part of this little get-together so it's harder to understand me. Locking profiles is too extreme but it's a discussion only!!! You are too sensitive IMHO. Of course I expect comments like this and I like them! Just make some little changes to the voting procedure/rules and don't allow trolls like me to hijack the topic. Or better lock me down as I'll keep saying that 15 voters out of 3000 forum members is a joke If you don't like this it's not my problem.

back to the topic:

1. I think you have too many categories.

My version:

Best Back
Best Courts
Best Jokers/Aces/Extra cards/Pips
Best Deck for Cardistry
Best Deck for Magic/Poker play
Best Tuck
Best Rookie Deck
Best Non-Poker Deck
Best Innovation
Best Of The Best (DOTY)

2. Set a reminder via PHPBB forum add-on. Allow forum members to skip voting and don't show a reminder.

3. Install a script to help users to vote.

[JacksandJokers]

Ok, Time to add my 2 cents to this topic.

Some of these I brought up last year but if we were to make changes I guess now would be a good time to reconsider them.

1) I don't think we should remove too many categories. Approx.15 would be ideal. This will give the voters something to think about and should ensure that all categories are not won by the same deck.

2) If we were to remove some categories I would choose Best pips, Best Uncut, Best Coin, Best Crowd Funding project & Best Deck for Poker Play.

We didn't vote for the best deck in a series last year which I think is the way forward. This category was always a little confusing, especially for newcomers.

3) I don't like the idea of having a best use of foil category. - Seriously how many ways can you possibly use foil in a deck of cards? And besides, We all know that Lotrek would win this category hands down every year.

4) If we were to add any categories I would like to see a Best Bicycle Deck Category.

5) I also propose that each voter is limited to how many categories they can vote in for a particular deck. Say the limit was 3 Categories, then Voters would have to choose other decks for the remaining categories.

Again, this will ensure that voters are really thinking about the votes they make, They will not list Lotrek for every single category (Sorry Lotrek), and they will not vote just for the most popular deck in the hopes of winning a prize.

With this in place there should be a wider spread across the number of decks voted for which makes the whole contest more interesting.

*I'm also planning on making a donation this year but still need to think about this*

**I'm also happy to help out in any way, shape or form if no-one else has the time to do so**

With regards to the number of voters - We need to remember that of the 3166 members showing there are probably only about 50 members who participate regularly.

[RichK]

Montezi,

I wanted to try to vote last year and asked for advice. Vasta responded and said it's a long, time consuming process to go through the decks of the one year. Sure I bet I can remove 75% of the decks so that leaves ~50 decks to examine. That's still a chunk of time I unfortunately don't have because of personal issues.

The threat of locking ACTIVE people out would result in fewer members or ballots with one topic filled in so the vote was filed.

[Bradius]

How about members nominate decks for consideration? That could significantly limit the number of decks to consider per category? Members maybe could still "write in" a deck if we want. I am just trying to find a way to improve the voting process so we may get more people voting. Again, I am all for reducing the number of categories. I know I like best Kickstarter campaign, but that appears to have little support. As such, I am fine with eliminating it. Again, I think we need to get the pruning sheers out on the categories. I also like combining Best Pip/Ace/Joker into one category.

[sinjin7]

At the end of the day, this is supposed to be a fun contest where we can all express our preferences and compare them with how others feel. I was always more interested in the vote distribution in any particular category rather than which deck actually won. But the number of decks to vote on in a given year has exploded, we have too many categories, and the excellence of the prizes have led to a few people to game their vote in hopes of winning an awesome prize as opposed to expressing their true preferences. All this has lead to voter suppression and people were too overwhelmed, or didn't have enough time, or were too disillusioned to vote.

Let's say out of 1000's of members, only about 50-60 are considered "active". Even if we have a 50% conversion rate (which is high) in getting "active" members to participate, that's still only about 25-30 participants. We need to promote this contest in advance on other sites like PlayingCardForum, Theory11, Ellusionist, and even Kickstarter to bring in new people. I think it's important to stress that you don't have to vote in every category, just the ones you feel comfortable with. I think we should only award one prize to the top voter with the most points, and then randomize all the rest of the prizes. We'll never eliminate those who try to game the contest just for prizes, but this way we can eliminate a lot of it and people won't be too pressured or incentivized to vote on what they think will be the popular vote, but rather what they truly feel.

I think we should reach out to the major sites like USPCC, T11, E, D&D, CARC, LPCC, as well as the bigger card designers (people like Jackson and Sunish have already stepped up bigtime) to donate prizes to increase buzz. It never hurts to ask, the worst is they say "no" and life goes on. I truly appreciate all the members who so generously have donated in the past, and will do so this year, but I would like to see the prize pool not be so member-generated. I know Mike R. is probably decompressing from the trip to Cleveland, but I hope he and the mods can take the reins and gear up for this year's contest to make it what it should be.

[Azazaaz]

I know I haven't been able to be really active these last months (Hey! Hi guys and girls!) because of personal events but I'm still lurking around. I'll try to make the best out of the time I have to vote this year. A comprehensive list would help a lot, this is what stopped me last year: I couldn't find a way to find out what decks were released in such a small amount of time. Having a pre-selection would help. Especially if some designers do not want to be nominated, included, affiliated in any way with this.

This could be something to add to Portfolio52.com: when a deck is added, register the date and make a search option for a period? Of course, some older decks will pop in the results, this is not perfect but it's better than nothing. I think everyone here would be able to exclude vintage or older decks that are added in the database from their votes.

Anyway, I have mad respect for Guru who kept track of everything in that neat excel file!

If the giveaway is kept (and I hope it will be), I'll be glad to donate a brick of whatever. I won't be doing this to thank someone who votes but because I like the idea of giving away a small present to a fellow card collector to celebrate the new year and our common hobby/passion. I just hope I won't have to send it to TwoPiece, he has difficult tastes, he'll just throw everthing I could send him in the fire and yell at me

[Merlebird]

I just hope I won't have to send it to TwoPiece, he has difficult tastes, he'll just throw everthing I could send him in the fire and yell at me

Daaaaamn, 2pc, that's cold. Why you gotta be like that?