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Not going to change the color scheme ... just to entertain

Another ugly sketch

[EDIT: IMG removed by me]

montenzi wrote: Another beautiful sketch

Fixed it for you!

This is a tremendous work Montenzi.

The back is not to intricate nor detailed, but somehow it catchs the eye in a good way.
The courts are turning amazingly, I would only try to incorporate the flowers from the back somehow in the courts also, maybe in the clothes or something, orther than that it is perfect. Can't wait to see them in full color (or cold foil!!!)

The back is starting to grow on me. The courts are just .

I know you're just messing around, but this new color scheme also works quite nicely. Just saying.

Just to echo others, extremely excited for this!

Frankly speaking I don't know

Probably not. Tricky. ...much easier to use standard courts - all you need is to design a back/box and then recolor and launch 100 limited edition campaigns

It's still a sketch! And I am not sure. Will try a different style.

edit #1: image updated:
edit #2: countur added
[EDIT: IMAGE REMOVED]

That's a start!! Not bad entirely.

I personally prefer the upper version better. This because you incorporated the pattern of the back in some of the detail on the front, and that a big plus. Though it doesn't work with the rest of the colors, it seems out-of-place. In that sense the bottom version feels more uniform, though less appealing to me.

Also, the face lines are too thick!

Still, I believe this one will be great. Probabily better than NEO:WAVE Ultra (which is no easy task).

EDIT: Way better the new updated image. The pattern seems to fit better with the rest of the court card.

sms69x wrote:That's a start!! Not bad entirely.

I personally prefer the upper version better. This because you incorporated the pattern of the back in some of the detail on the front, and that a big plus. Though it doesn't work with the rest of the colors, it seems out-of-place. In that sense the bottom version feels more uniform, though less appealing to me.

Also, the face lines are too thick!

Still, I believe this one will be great. Probabily better than NEO:WAVE Ultra (which is no easy task).

I would also prefer the burgundy backed deck. The teal/green one is, well too green...

I am guessing we may be looking at two color tones. So, pick your preference I guess. I too am leaning toward the burgundy version. I am fine with the differing thicknesses of the lines. It seems to work in this style for me. I do like how you vary the colors. They are going to look amazing with cold foil.

I want both color schemes. Can I just pre-order three of each, now? I don't care when fulfillment will be, just take my money.

I also like the way the courts are shaping up. Incorporating the pattern from the back design is a really nice touch.

Both color schemes, each with a bordered and non-bordered version. Three of each = a full brick. Sign me up.

rousselle wrote:Both color schemes, each with a bordered and non-bordered version. Three of each = a full brick. Sign me up.

montenzi wrote::p.s. please don't ask to show a full bleed back

This is a type of back pattern that would look good as a full bleed back. I like the white/silver bordered backs as well (although would prefer a bit thinner borders). If there are going to be two back colors, and a bordered and full bleed version, and they're all going to be cold pressed foil on both sides, then I would almost have to get a brick, or at least 8 decks. That's a lot of foiled decks. I think I see my wallet running off my desk trying to make a break for it, which is surprising because I thought Lotrek's 2nd mystery deck already beat it unconscious.

There is a fundamental problem with my current sketches I want this deck to be more classic...

But for me the "standard English pattern" is not "classic". At least I am happy to accept this

I cannot understand standard courts There is NO STYLE at all. Just 12 different styleless cards within a sute!!! One simple example. Look at QoS. It MUST BE QoD but not QoS! Found diamonds on QoS? ok. QoD should be QoS. JoH should be JoD. and so on. 100% mess. English pattern is the worst I have ever seen...sorry. Have to say this

I'll just show some TESTS made using standard courts and some other sketched with a different lineart.

p.s. a borderless back is out of question

Like this (different proportions and geometry vs first sketches):

*** EDIT: IMG removed

[quote="montenzi"]There is a fundamental problem with my current sketches I want this deck to be more classic...

But for me the "standard English pattern" is not "classic". At least I am happy to accept this

I cannot understand standard courts There is NO STYLE at all. Just 12 different styleless cards within a sute!!! One simple example. Look at QoS. It MUST BE QoD but not QoS! Found diamonds on QoS? ok. QoD should be QoS. JoH should be JoD. and so on. 100% mess. English pattern is the worst I have ever seen...sorry. Have to say this

I'll just show some TESTS made using standard courts and some sketched with a different lineart.

p.s. a borderless back is out of question

Classic QoS and exadurated JoS (maybe a good idea):
[/

Thanks Montenzi. I cannot agree more with your take on classic courts. There are very few decks with standard courts that I like and your alternative take on the courts both in your Neo decks and above is very refreshing. While your interpretation of the classics above is nice, I would definitely prefer your other, “ugly” sketches.

It is also a shame that full bleed backs are not an option as I agree with Rousselle that a borderless deck would look fantastic.

Magic Tapp wrote:It is also a shame that full bleed backs are not an option as I agree with Rousselle that a botderless deck would look fantastic.

I understand and I'll probably think about it. Got some quotes from Cartamundi so have some ideas Also you should understand that launching 2-3 expensive decks in one campaign is not a good idea. In this case a borderless back is only possible if court cards are the same. It allows to print a couple of different backs within one print run with same faces to lower the costs.

Montenzi,

Can I make a suggestion? I wanted to mention this to Guru as well. You should take pre-orders on your websites, take a look at this company: http://www.gmtgames.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and look at their P500 program. They have a system that basically determines their production runs based on customer orders. I've "backed" several games on the P500, understanding that it may be more than a year before it gets printed. It works, and they have die-hard fans/repeat customers/reliable consumer base for their products.

That way there's far less risk to YOU as the producer, and you can still produce multiple decks that have the features that make them more costly to produce. Not to mention, you don't have to deal with the limitations of Kickstarter.

I can only speak for myself, but if I know I will get a deck eventually, and it's going to be rad then I don't mind waiting a little for it's production. That way, you can know what your demand is and produce to that.

Just a thought. Since it seems your limitations/reservations are more around production and costs, this is a way to defray that.

P.S. I also kind of like the modified standard courts you show in that picture, too. But, I like your originals a lot.

@ICantShuffle, thanks! I'll look at it. But Kickstarter itself is a great preorder platform. I understand that P500 is different.

Ok. I confirm that old sketches will be moved to a digital trash (it's my usual design process ) They helped me to find the style I'd like to see in this deck. Wiith this style I can use colors more aggressively.

Goodbye Queen! Hello King! Any comments?

To compare old/new style:

EDIT: image removed

ICantShuffle wrote:Montenzi,

Can I make a suggestion? I wanted to mention this to Guru as well. You should take pre-orders on your websites, take a look at this company: http://www.gmtgames.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and look at their P500 program. They have a system that basically determines their production runs based on customer orders. I've "backed" several games on the P500, understanding that it may be more than a year before it gets printed. It works, and they have die-hard fans/repeat customers/reliable consumer base for their products.

@ICantShuffle - This is interesting. Need to understand it thoroughly and I might contact these guys, just in case of any question. Thanks for sharing.

How about this? Like the style. I'll explain why. The first QoS color sketch was too girly. And with the first lineart it was impossible for me to create other cards in the same style. I tried.

Still need to work on colors and details.

montenzi wrote:How about this? Like the style. I'll explain why. The first QoS color sketch was too girly. And with the first lineart it was impossible for me to create other cards in the same style. I tried.

Still need to work on colors and details.

Should be ok in foil

UC_237a.jpg

Now THIS looks great!

Still really liking these. I'm definitely interested in at least one of each.

I don’t like that the faces don’t have any color...just doesn’t look right

shermjack wrote:I don’t like that the faces don’t have any color...just doesn’t look right

The card is 50% finished It's a sketch. Faces should be different for all K/Q/J

I think the strength of your earlier sketches was the apparent three-dimensionality you had accomplished with the faces looking in different directions. It appears now that you're going to have them all facing forward?

I know this has been your preference for some other decks as well, but I'd really like to see what you can do with having the faces looking in different directions rather then always facing forward. Your initial sketches absolutely knocked them out of the park, and not only made for exciting courts, but added something that hasn't been seen much at all in playing card design. I'd love to see you try to get back to that. If earlier sketches of other characters didn't quite break through the way the ones you showed us did, then, well, please try again? Take as many tries as you need. The effort, I believe, will be worth it.

rousselle wrote:It appears now that you're going to have them all facing forward?

FWIW montenzi did say that the faces should be different for each court. I assume he just used the same posing angle for each king so that he could reuse the face for rendering purposes.

Personally I like the new style 1000x better. The heavier line weight is much more engaging.

Oh, I *totally* favor the heavier line weight.

It's the "always facing forward" thing I'm not as big a fan of. Changing hats isn't enough; let's change the faces, where they are looking, and their expressions, too.

Merlebird wrote:I assume he just used the same posing angle for each king so that he could reuse the face for rendering purposes.

Yes, exactly! But everything is possible.

rousselle wrote:I think the strength of your earlier sketches was the apparent three-dimensionality you had accomplished with the faces looking in different directions. It appears now that you're going to have them all facing forward?

I am trying. I should love the artwork in order to create a good deck of card . Want to sleep well after a release BTW could you please explain why KoD/JoH/JoS are one eyed. Why they are looking to different directions. It does not make ANY sense for me. Really. I am trying to understand and find a pattern but I cannot.

rousselle wrote: I know this has been your preference for some other decks as well, but I'd really like to see what you can do with having the faces looking in different directions rather then always facing forward. Your initial sketches absolutely knocked them out of the park, and not only made for exciting courts, but added something that hasn't been seen much at all in playing card design. I'd love to see you try to get back to that. If earlier sketches of other characters didn't quite break through the way the ones you showed us did, then, well, please try again? Take as many tries as you need. The effort, I believe, will be worth it.

I'll explain. First of all I'll keep working on lines thickness and details during the process. 3D feel is not only a face expression but everything includig background and textures/gradients. The last KoD is almost flat as it's a color sketch. I'll probably add some gradients later. But it should not be too similar to the Color Queen I posted before. Need a more classic feel of the art ...and more space as cards are too small.

But the main reason - I just cannot create a consistent deck using the first style. If I try it will be yet another standard English pattern mess ...

Of course I'll try everything to be happy with the art but I cannot make everyone happy

Montenzi,

I really liked what you had done with the eyes in the first sketches of the courts, will you be keeping that look? That's the one big change I noticed with the newer sketches. I really liked them and would be sad to see that feature go away.

I also like having the courts facing different directions, I liked your initial interpretations, and I think they looked anything but "standard" or "English."

What I mean is this image:

ICantShuffle wrote:I also like having the courts facing different directions, I liked your initial interpretations, and I think they looked anything but "standard" or "English."

Yes, I'll try everything.

But could anyone explain WHY we have this:

3 left Q and 1 right Q
2 right J, 2 left J, 2 one eye J
1 one eye K, 3 left K and 1 right K


Any sense? Why should I use this in a custom deck?