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chach wrote:Picked up this A.S.S. Deck, I have no info on it, but I would think it's early 20th century. Cards themselves are in very good condition, tuck is flimsy at the flap but holding together. Anyone able to fill in the details? *cough* Mike *cough*

Tough one, chach! I hate to guess or make any observations when I'm not certain, but "Altenburg" claims to have been founded in 1765 on their recent (A.S.S.) logo, but that's kind of a stretch. Most people agree it's 1832, when the Stralsund part (that was founded in 1765) merged with the Altenburger ("from Altenburg" - Germany) part.

I'm going to guess and say it's about 100 years old. The way the tuck looks, I'm guessing (and sheer guess here) it's a reprint of a deck done in 1822, so maybe 1922? I can't find anything on "#435" but I'll see what I can find. I have a contact that works in marketing for A.S.S. (a division of CartaMundi now) and he may well know.

Almost all of the decks that have the Judaic star are pre-1930 - for obvious reasons. I can't really read the Deutsch Reich stamp - does it say "Nr 2" at the bottom? That's a pretty reliable way to date German-made decks, and that would be between 1871-1918. That's why I want to go 100 years, but - can you post a clearer pix or just say? That's not 100% reliable, because I've seen Dondorf decks made in 1933 with "Deutsch Reich Nr 2" on them, obviously they hadn't had time to get new government tax stamps made, my best guess.

Again, not 100% sure but the "B" in the star is "Bergdorf" (as in Bergdorf-Harrl region/province), just like Bavaria and other pre-unification areas were semi or completely autonomous. The other clue is "53 Blatt" as in "Joker included" which didn't happen - for the most part - until the 1870's. European decks post 1920 usually had 3 jokers.

Oh man, I was watching that Rockwell deck but, I ended up being away at a convention for the holiday weekend and missed it. Glad you got it Eoghann!

I can't tell, what is the name of the skeleton deck?

Got my Ornates today!
no custom delays or fees thanks to the low value! Thanks guys!

BUT - the brick came wrapped up in bubble wrapper in a padded envelope.
This wasnt enough to protect some of the decks and the brick box was ripped.
I will not bother you guys to look at the pictures but for those of you who might wanna check that out
http://www.abload.de/gallery.php?key=o9DyXSGF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Welcome to the Family white ORNATES

DragonSoul wrote:Oh man, I was watching that Rockwell deck but, I ended up being away at a convention for the holiday weekend and missed it. Glad you got it Eoghann!

I can't tell, what is the name of the skeleton deck?

@DragonSoul - I was thinking the same thing. Eoghann what is the name of the skeleton deck? I see something I what to see a bit closer. Hard to read. Not a Bike, but has the ribbon and look of a Bike deck.

@Mike A hundred years old? I don't know it looks like some kind of reprint to me. Interesting the deck uses the 7oH for the signature and the AoH for a tax stamp. Old cards I've seen usually used the AoS for the tax stamp. What does this AoS look like?

I got my Ornates too. Very nice work on the deck by Randy, bad work on packaging by HOPC. All decks were severely hit and in bad condition, as a result of using just a padded envelope for 4 decks.

sorry DS! I couldn't decide whether to place a bid or just buy it now but didn't wanna risk losing it. So I ponied up full price. Priciest deck I've bought to date.

Sorry about the crappy pic guys. Here's a better one I just took. it's printed by USPCC.

Found it through their website but they have them on eBay as well.

sprouts1115 wrote: @Mike A hundred years old? I don't know it looks like some kind of reprint to me. Interesting the deck uses the 7oH for the signature and the AoH for a tax stamp. Old cards I've seen usually used the AoS for the tax stamp. What does this AoS look like?

Screenshot 2014-09-03 16.39.48.png

Sprouts, I'm with Mike, they're closer to 100 years old than being a mid century reprint. A stylized AoS was done more in England and her colonies as the tax levy. Before actual tax stamps or the deck saddles, English decks didn't have the AoS included and it was supposed to be unique and purchased separately to act as a tax. Penalties for forging AoS were quite harsh, which is one of the myths as to how it was deemed an unlucky card. However, French & Germanic countries would put the tax stamp on the AoH instead. Well AoH for French suited decks, 2oH for Germanic suited decks.

Any how, I'm not at home for a while so I can't provide a clearer picture of the tax stamp, but it is the older eagle (1878-1888) with large ribbons coming from the crown and it has No 90 below the eagle denoting it was stamped in the Altenburg region. Also Funfzig Pf for 50 pfennig tax since it was a deck containing more card than a skat deck. No other stamps on it, so it was sold after unification.

The "Gegründet 1822" simply translates to Founded 1822, so that's no more a statement of date of manufacture than when Bicycle prints "Trusted Since 1865"

Also, there were laws incorporated after WWII disallowing the use of wording and symbolism associated with the third reich. As such, I doubt that a company would reprint a tax stamp with a very un-PC Deutsches Reich term. Let alone there were many changes in tax stamps during the 30s and 40s that it would've been stamped with if it were sold during those time periods or later.

Not to mention, the look, feel and smell of the cards all carry an air of age with them. Though I'm not an expert and don't have the equipment to check for radionuclides, I'd place good money on them being 1920 or earlier.

Well, sprouts - re-read what I said: I think it could be a reprint of a 100th anniversary done in around 1920-1932 (can't be 1933 or later because Hitler would have squashed that Judaic star even if he had to rip that out of the deck, and he didn't). The third reich was 1933-1935. The "Hundertjarkkarte" (Dondorf #$1000 = "Centennial" or "Jubilee" in English) was done in 1933, had a "Deutsche Reich Nr 2" stamp on it, because - as I noted, they had to use the 2nd reich ("reich" = state 'government' for all practical purposes) tax stamp simply because they hasn't had time to make a new one - yet. German provinces were considered 'states', just like they are in the United States even today. They weren't independent after unification, obviously - they were nationalized.

You also have to figure that if it were later (i.e. 1945+) it wouldn't have had that six-pointed star either, it's just not done for obvious reasons, and even today it's just way too sensitive to be done - even now. Arguably you could say it would have to be to be a 100% authentic reproduction or reprint, but - that's just not done in practice.

As I also noted, with reprints or re-issued decks, it's very hard to be precise simply because they purposefully used the older style and designs. I asked my buddy that's the VP of Marketing for A.S.S. and we'll see what he has to say - tomorrow or by the weekend, hopefully. Just like I said up front, I hate to make generalizations of draw conclusions when I'm not certain or even sure what I'm talking about - just making an educated guess, as I also noted.

We'll see, but I'm going to be very surprised if it's not 1922, look at the first pix - dated "1822" or uses that date as the focal point. It's certainly not 200 years old, we do know that (or it wouldn't have indices).

OK, Gerd Mathes from A.S.S. division of CartaMundi responded overnight about the #435 deck: (and they are a bit older than even I thought)

Mike, the poker cards is a game from the 1897 at this time, the "Altenburger playing cards factory, Schneider & Co.", the company was 1897 were taken over by the "Vereinigte Stralsunder Spielkartenfabrik".

From the packaging is still printed as business name "Schneider & Co.". On the cards already, is new name "Vereinigten Stralsunder Spielkartenfabrik".

The star has to do with the company "brothers Bechstein". This company was founded in 1832 and acquired by "Schneider & Co.".

The cards image is a "Berliner Bild", which is still produced by our company in very different packaging.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Best regards
ASS Altenburger

Awesome, thanks for contacting him Mike. That's the exact kind of info I was looking for. So I guess I didn't do too bad.

Got my new Legend decks today from the Legends website!
Those are awesome - really - the foil on the box is very shiny and the backs of the cards do have metallic ink.
They are marked - do the riffle test to see the thumb cinema rolling!
Only one Joker and one blank face card are included. Standard Court cards are a bit lazy...but i get the idea of this being a magicians deck so that
you can use your standard gaffs (double facers etc).
No box reveal but a QR Code to scan.
For the price of 7€ (about 9.20USD) shipped a very good price.

Here are my pictures Enjoy!

Very nice pictures, now we can't wait to get ours

This came in a few days ago but not sure I ever ordered one...I wonder what happened

Whaaaaaat? How? When? Why?

Great photos of the new Legends EEs. More excited to get mine now haha.

Gorgeous pics, cosmicsecret!

badpete69 wrote:This came in a few days ago but not sure I ever ordered one...I wonder what happened

Someone out there must really like you











>

Glad you enjoy the pictures!
The markings of the value (Jack,9,7 etc) is in the same system like on the First Edition Legends.
Its actually easier to read the values on the Egyptians - however the suits are harder to read/spot.
They kept the subtle left corner one way marking but its too subtle for me. On the 1st Legends it was subtle but sooo easy to spot (when you know what to look for).
They removed the one way pips - it´s sad because i really like this feature for my card magic.

chach wrote:Awesome, thanks for contacting him Mike. That's the exact kind of info I was looking for. So I guess I didn't do too bad.

Nope, very nice, actually. Sprouts, the markings on Euro decks is inconsistent, sometimes 4 of Clubs, sometimes AoH. AoS is British & 'Merikuns.

The bottom line I got from Gerd's comments was it had to be in a very short time period when the new name was on the deck but old name still on the tuck box.

VSS/ASS/VASS are all varieties of the same company over time through mergers and buys.

Today I received a very lovely vintage deck, brought to you by Trans World Airlines. The retro courts are just amazing! The backs have metallic ink accents.

And next is a ludicrously adorable animal deck with creatures representing the animal kingdoms.

The TWA courts are charming. I may need to hunt me a deck as well.

Cool! Just be really careful though. They're the TWA Nu-Vue. There's a few going around that look exactly identical to the tuck I have except there's standard courts inside. And the similar one with the gold back has standard courts as well. There's a few sealed ones on eBay right now and I doubt there's any way of knowing what's inside. The only discernible difference I find between my deck and the ones on eBay is that mine has a partial tax stamp. Hope that helps!

Actually scratch what I just said. Just saw a gold one with custom courts. Just be careful I guess.

That's interesting. I actually saw these courts on another advertising deck (not TWA) but, I saw them literally with seconds left and missed placing a bid. I've been keeping an eye out to see if they got relisted but, nope. Now, I'll be looking to see if I can find TWA or maybe some other advertising deck with these courts. Thanks!

What is the animal deck?

It's the Animal Kingdom deck by The Nimbus Factory. Their site is currently down for maintenance though. Just went and checked.

http://thenimbusfactory.bigcartel.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eoghann wrote:Today I received a very lovely vintage deck, brought to you by Trans World Airlines. The retro courts are just amazing! The backs have metallic ink accents.

And next is a ludicrously adorable animal deck with creatures representing the animal kingdoms.

Another pair for the wants list...thanks Eoghann ,you always seem to get the goodies i want.

Eoghann wrote:Today I received a very lovely vintage deck, brought to you by Trans World Airlines. The retro courts are just amazing! The backs have metallic ink accents.

And next is a ludicrously adorable animal deck with creatures representing the animal kingdoms.

Nice, Eoghann!

I have a deck or two with the "Nu-View" courts, but I don't recall them being TWA decks (the publisher made many decks with those courts, apparently hoping that their "innovation" would catch on). Look for the words "Nu-View" on the side/end of the tuck.

I don't believe that I've ever seen those Animal courts before - sweet!

glad you like them guys!

Anyone know what's this germ proof by corobex it boasts on the side of the tuck or what exactly was behind the "eye saving" designs of the cards? First time I ever see such statements.

Eoghann wrote: glad you like them guys!

Anyone know what's this germ proof by corobex it boasts on the side of the tuck or what exactly was behind the "eye saving" designs of the cards? First time I ever see such statements.

Marketing nonsense, mostly. I seem to recall that "Cheer-Up" (the hospital-themed one of the "_____-Up" decks) also boasted of some sort of germ-resistant coating, hich made some sense as a marketing ploy, as the deck was sold in hospital gift shops and the like.

And the "new vue" decks weren't the only ones making "eye-saving" claims. There were also the "Past-L-Eze" decks with their unique, pastel-colored courts. I don't know that a lot of people complained of eye strain from playing with a standard deck, or if the "Nu Vue" and "Past-L-Eze" manufacturers simply invented a "problem" to which they had the solution, but my money is on the latter.

Here is a grid of a "Past-L-Eze" deck:
Note that Past-L-Eze decks, like "Nu Vue" decks, were published with various backs.

"Scientifically tinted NU-VUE effectively reduces eye fatigue" - by the Journal of the American Optometric Assn.

The above was mentioned in Nu-Vue advertising.
I believe Nu-Vue is simply the off-white greenish tint the cards have. It's subtle but Nu-Vue decks I have seen definitely have it. At some point they discovered that a particular shade of green is very restful for the eyes and started using it extensively in hospitals, so there's the link to the germ-proofing too.

As RS said Brown & Bigelow were just looking for a new angle to sell cards.