JacksonRobinson wrote:
I See, but also to Sinjin7's point how do print runs of uncuts pollute the number of decks unless you have an army of workers with paper cutters and somehow you magically found a ton of empty tucks to make new decks out of them.
Does that mean you don't want to tell us how many uncuts there are?
(Why do I feel like I'm poking a hungry bear? )
No it's fine. I have 80 Red Hive Uncuts and 80 Blue Hive Uncuts I have 70 of each available on the site and 10 saved for damages or misshaps. No hungry bear, just confused at some peoples remarks sometimes and how if I don't give them my children's social security numbers and blood type they jump to the conclusion that I'm hiding something.
Also Uncuts are not counted in with main print run of a deck, If you don't order them you will not get them. In regards to the Black Reserve Notes I order a metric ton of those as even I the great and powerful Jack$on couldn't get past the 2500 minimum with USPCC. I order a little over the 1000 as USPCC request for over unders and then took it in the teeth buy the rest in uncuts. Why do you think they are $20 now? They most likely will go down even further.
Appreciate the info, Jackson. You know, I always thought that only getting a few uncuts and selling them at a premium seemed strange when you could easily get a lot more and sell them for a reasonable price. Sure, the market is much smaller than with the decks, but I think a lot more collectors would be willling to get uncuts of decks they like if they were priced at $20 or less. No way of knowing, but I suspect the ones in USPCC's webstore sold pretty darn well.
MagikFingerz wrote:Appreciate the info, Jackson. You know, I always thought that only getting a few uncuts and selling them at a premium seemed strange when you could easily get a lot more and sell them for a reasonable price. Sure, the market is much smaller than with the decks, but I think a lot more collectors would be willling to get uncuts of decks they like if they were priced at $20 or less. No way of knowing, but I suspect the ones in USPCC's webstore sold pretty darn well.
I agree too, as well now looking back at the past year or so. That is why we priced the HIVE uncuts the way they are. I would have priced the independence uncuts around $20 as well
but I had already commited to the "premium" price during the KS and didn't want to jab all of the backers post KS. I don't see myself charging more than $20 for uncuts going forward as honestly they just don't sell as much. I don't think I have sold more than 150 Uncuts of any one design. If anything they just take up to much storage space and are to awkward to transport.
I think uncuts are pretty cool. But at the current asking prices on Kickstarter, and the shoe box I live in, it's the dumbest thing I could purchase. Bad enough with the boxes of decks I have all over the place. :lol
But yeah $20 is a refreshing price for a change! You don't see that often. And Lorenzo's 2 for 1 Heretics was pretty awesome as well.
We totally have some new stuff in the works. Brendan is an incredibly talented artist and he is super easy to work with. We are planning some really exciting stuff for the near future for sure.
Uncut sheets are an interesting issue. I find it fascinating they are more expensive then a decks of cards, but of course you know why shipping. USPCC has a minimum of 25. It seems tubes are part of a Kickstarter project.... Ah I lost my train of thought...
sinjin7 wrote:Black edition Reserve Note uncut sheets are $20.00 as well.
So allegedly only 1000 Hives in each color were ever printed and only 800 of each color sold. Now we're seeing uncut sheets available (without any mention of quantity, of course). I wonder how this figures in the "limited" print run? If people would only learn that full transparency is always the best policy. At least the pricing for these uncuts aren't ridiculous, so kudos for that.
What more transparency are you looking for? I reserved 200 sets for a few of my historically solid wholesalers and I sold the rest on my site. Do I need to supply you with my POs and tell you everything about my business dealings so that you don't gripe.
With this bunch Jackson, I think you could do all of that and the griping would continue.
To <sinjin7>'s point - could be referring to the unknown number of uncuts as polluting the actual print run numbers of the decks. I always assumed the uncuts came from the print overage of the run (which always happens)... I never hear any complaints about the extra 10% of decks USPC always delivers to customers over what was specified - do folks really think those extra 250 decks are just chucked in the trash?
I See, but also to Sinjin7's point how do print runs of uncuts pollute the number of decks unless you have an army of workers with paper cutters and somehow you magically found a ton of empty tucks to make new decks out of them.
JacksonRobinson wrote:No it's fine. I have 80 Red Hive Uncuts and 80 Blue Hive Uncuts I have 70 of each available on the site and 10 saved for damages or misshaps. No hungry bear, just confused at some peoples remarks sometimes and how if I don't give them my children's social security numbers and blood type they jump to the conclusion that I'm hiding something.
Also Uncuts are not counted in with main print run of a deck, If you don't order them you will not get them. In regards to the Black Reserve Notes I order a metric ton of those as even I the great and powerful Jack$on couldn't get past the 2500 minimum with USPCC. I order a little over the 1000 as USPCC request for over unders and then took it in the teeth buy the rest in uncuts. Why do you think they are $20 now? They most likely will go down even further.
You need to calm down, Jackson. Why don't you re-read my post again? When did I ever say anything about uncuts "polluting" anything? I appreciate StanKindLee's attempt to explain my post, but "pollute" was his words, not mine. All I wanted to know was how the uncuts factored into your print run, whether it was part of the 1000 deck order or if you had extra printed. My comment about transparency was directed at you not releasing the number of uncuts (and you didn't until MagikFingerz asked), and that if you were up front with the numbers we wouldn't have any questions, that's all. And then I actually commended you on your pricing of the uncuts! Again, re-read my post. I wasn't accusing you of any hidden conspiracies, you jumped to those unjustified conclusions all on your own. Then you got all pissy in typical Jackson style with the un-needed comments about your children's social security numbers and blood types.
You have such a negative attitude towards UC that it seems you're always in defensive mode here. Your sarcasm doesn't reflect well on you professionally and only serve to incite flaming, which in this case is self-inflicted. I felt all these issues were hashed out amicably between you and I in the Thunderdome, but evidently they weren't.
@sinjin7 - Does it really matter? The question is will uncut sheet go up in value? How long has uncut sheets been available? How many uncuts were made per deck. Is anybody logging this stuff in? Will this information be available in a hundred years? It should be...
@JacksonRobinson - Now that USPCC is doing 1000 deck runs, how will this effect the future of LE decks? You have to have known before anyone else including me. Tells us your thoughts...
I hope Brendan's future decks will be printed in larger runs so the price can be substantially lowered. I know there are interested parties that can make it happen, and as much as I appreciate Jackson's work those prices aren't made for anyone who want to pick up any decks to actually use on a regular basis. Plus, works of art like this should be spread to as many people as possible.
(And here's to hoping future decks will be printed by USPCC, I just can't become friends with the EPCC decks.)
Yes, I might be the guy you remember from that thing at that place way back when.
Marcus wrote:I hope Brendan's future decks will be printed in larger runs so the price can be substantially lowered. I know there are interested parties that can make it happen, and as much as I appreciate Jackson's work those prices aren't made for anyone who want to pick up any decks to actually use on a regular basis. Plus, works of art like this should be spread to as many people as possible.
i wholeheartedly agree, its such a shame the hive deck was printed in such a small run and priced so high.
JacksonRobinson wrote:We totally have some new stuff in the works. Brendan is an incredibly talented artist and he is super easy to work with. We are planning some really exciting stuff for the near future for sure.
This is great news. I bought 3 sets. They are my favorite decks I've bought this year. I love everything about them.
sinjin7 wrote:Black edition Reserve Note uncut sheets are $20.00 as well.
So allegedly only 1000 Hives in each color were ever printed and only 800 of each color sold. Now we're seeing uncut sheets available (without any mention of quantity, of course). I wonder how this figures in the "limited" print run? If people would only learn that full transparency is always the best policy. At least the pricing for these uncuts aren't ridiculous, so kudos for that.
Face palm. I'm not really sure how you wanted me to take "If people would only learn that full transparency is always the best policy" and it is also possible for me to respond to multiple people in one response not just you.
I sincerely can't see why the moment I get defensive and try to stand up for myself you accuse me of having a bad attitude.
JacksonRobinson wrote:I sincerely can't see why the moment I get defensive and try to stand up for myself you accuse me of having a bad attitude.
Think of it like customer service. If a customer walks into a store with all sorts of questions about an item, even if it's unreasonable or in a tone that is not appreciated, the salesperson is forced to smile and answer questions as politely as possible. People don't expect customer service to say things like, "Do I need to explain everything to you so that you don't gripe?" People just expect customer service to answer the question. That's just the professional way. Customer service is a difficult job because no matter how you're feeling, you have the treat the customer with respect and answer politely*, or it's considered bad customer service.
No one ever said you couldn't stand up for yourself. You just have to do it in a way that doesn't disrespect/antagonize the customer. I'm pretty sure comments such as, "... and how if I don't give them my children's social security numbers and blood type they jump to the conclusion that I'm hiding something" is a statement that would antagonize. If it's something you wouldn't dare say to a superior or to your mother, then there's a good chance it's disrespectful/"bad attitude." Customer service is difficult to do in person, because you'd have to maintain your composure in front of the customer. However, online, people have time to gather their composure and compose a calm, reasonable, and polite response.
To be clear, I'm not picking a side. I'm just trying to clarify something for Jackson.
* This is assuming the customer hasn't said any racist or demeaning remarks, which sinjin has not done.
Your absolutely right, and I totally see your point. I should responded to Sinjin7 with "What more info are you looking for me disclose" and that be it.
JacksonRobinson wrote:I sincerely can't see why the moment I get defensive and try to stand up for myself you accuse me of having a bad attitude.
Think of it like customer service. If a customer walks into a store with all sorts of questions about an item, even if it's unreasonable or in a tone that is not appreciated, the salesperson is forced to smile and answer questions as politely as possible. People don't expect customer service to say things like, "Do I need to explain everything to you so that you don't gripe?" People just expect customer service to answer the question. That's just the professional way. Customer service is a difficult job because no matter how you're feeling, you have the treat the customer with respect and answer politely*, or it's considered bad customer service.
No one ever said you couldn't stand up for yourself. You just have to do it in a way that doesn't disrespect/antagonize the customer. I'm pretty sure comments such as, "... and how if I don't give them my children's social security numbers and blood type they jump to the conclusion that I'm hiding something" is a statement that would antagonize. If it's something you wouldn't dare say to a superior or to your mother, then there's a good chance it's disrespectful/"bad attitude." Customer service is difficult to do in person, because you'd have to maintain your composure in front of the customer. However, online, people have time to gather their composure and compose a calm, reasonable, and polite response.
To be clear, I'm not picking a side. I'm just trying to clarify something for Jackson.
* This is assuming the customer hasn't said any racist or demeaning remarks, which sinjin has not done.
Very well put Sher. I work in customer service and can say you hit the proverbial nail on the head. I fix computers for a living and have been doing it for a couple decades. I can proudly say I am among the best at what I do but I have had customers say rude or blunt things on occasion. I have had my skills AND integrity questioned but through it all I have to smile and remain professional.
@Jackson... What helps me deal with people is trying to remember that I have the respect of my peers and the vast majority of my customers. That helps me to see these people for what they are. Frustrated customers who simply don't understand what I am trying to explain.
UC is not Jackson's storefront. KS and his website are the places he does business. UC is a forum. Jackson is under no obligation to participate here. And if he chooses not to participate, this forum will be worse-off for it.
/bamabenz
'Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet you can't win.'
UC is not Jackson's storefront. KS and his website are the places he does business. UC is a forum. Jackson is under no obligation to participate here. And if he chooses not to participate, this forum will be worse-off for it.
/bamabenz
True, but words and actions still carry over regardless. Because he is the head of his company no matter where he goes his actions reflect upon him and his businesses. Part of having a high profile.
UC is not Jackson's storefront. KS and his website are the places he does business. UC is a forum. Jackson is under no obligation to participate here. And if he chooses not to participate, this forum will be worse-off for it.
/bamabenz
Like chach said, that is an invalid argument (*must resist posting one of countless memes*). If Bill Gates went on facebook or twitter posting hot-headed responses to his customers, he would get just as much flak for it and his company would suffer because of it.
It's kinda weird though, you seem to be implying that Jackson would get offended by Sher's post. In reality, any post that says "you shouldn't have that attitude towards your customers" to a company official is actually just helping them. Being silent and letting them carry on the same way would be much worse, wouldn't it?
Maybe it was a bad example. I didn't mean to imply that meant full disclosure of his business model. I was only trying to explain what some perceive as "attitude."
Sinjin asked about the print run, made a comment about being transparent (regarding print run, I don't think he said anything about about disclosing business models... Those were Jackson's words), and Jackson responded, "Do I have to disclose POs... Etc... So you don't have to gripe?" (a response which was perceived as attitude)
When this has to do with limited quantities, asking if the uncuts were part of the run is a valid question especially when one of the selling points of the hive deck is it's 1k run.
And nowhere did sinjin ask for full disclosure of costing and business model.
UC is not Jackson's storefront. KS and his website are the places he does business. UC is a forum. Jackson is under no obligation to participate here. And if he chooses not to participate, this forum will be worse-off for it.
/bamabenz
True, but words and actions still carry over regardless. Because he is the head of his company no matter where he goes his actions reflect upon him and his businesses. Part of having a high profile.
Exactly. It is for this same reason a person wearing a company uniform can be fired for their actions, regardless of whether or not they are actually on company time. When you are representing your company it doesn't matter where you are.
@bamabenz... Your comments about Jackson participating here are nonsense. Plain and simple. For starters. Packing up and taking ones ball home because of the comments of a few is a disservice to the whole community, not to mention unprofessional. Saying the forum will suffer for his loss is childish and also unprofessional. We are the customers. Jackson need us, not the other way around. 10% or not. Ask Apple, GM or any other corporation if they are willing to throw away 10% of their customer base.
Sher took the time out of her day to post helpful and good advice and this is your way of repaying that kindness? I have stayed largely quiet in these arguments but this was too much.
EDIT FOR CLARITY: The above comment is directed at bamabenz... NOT Jackson.
Like many people already mentioned, Sher was spot on with her comments, and even Jackson agreed with her. I think a lot of misunderstandings could be avoided if people took just a little more time to read posts a bit more carefully and not put words in other people's mouths or posts. Because its the internet, sometimes its hard to get a good read on someone's intent by just reading words, and its hard to discern if someone is trying to be sarcastic or funny and things could be taken the wrong way. All I wanted to know was what was the correlation between a limited print run and uncut sheets, and pointed out that if he gives full disclosure about the print run of the uncuts, then we wouldn't have any questions or wrong ideas about it. That was it. Maybe due to the way I worded my post, or because of our history, Jackson may have taken it the wrong way, I don't know.
I think Jackson is a passionate guy when it comes to his craft. I actually think he's a pretty funny dude (at times) as well. He's definitely talented, which is why any of us care what he says or does. Its pretty boring when a company is too buttoned up and PC, so I don't mind seeing a little spirit and actual honesty. But you can't go too far the other way and speak your mind too bluntly to the point of being unprofessional, either. Its a tough balance to find and Jackson is a new company and he's still trying to find that balance, I think. At the end of the day, I appreciate the fact that he still comes here to UC to take the heat and face the music like he's done in this thread and in the Thunderdome.
Here are my thoughts. If this is supposed to be a community of individuals who converse about the playing card world then let that be what it is. Some here took it personally or started bad mouthing me that I took a leave of absence for a while. Who cares if I'm representing Kings Wild or myself the etiquette of respectfulness still applies to all. The biggest reason I left for a bit is because individuals who didn't necessarily represent a company but only themselves thought it was fair play to be sarcastic and say what ever they like with no fear of someone questioning your professionalism. Professionalism transfer to an individual in the form of respect. However the moment a the "company man" comes in and gives a little push back sarcastic or not, then I become an unprofessional business man who needs to take the Michael Scott's School of Costumer Service (said with a sarcastic tone) If you want people like me and others who are "company men" to be a part of the little boys club (said sarcastically) then I should be able to converse as an individual and or a "company man"
Sinji7, are you really going to write a response about sarcasm and online tone when you wrote the Campion of all Panjama Keyboard Hero novels (said very sarcastically) when you pinned your "Cricket" thesis about my shady business practices.
The only reason I would "take my ball and bat and go home" is if you guys don't let me play the game just like you guys. Forums like this are great when actual constructive conversations happen. But when they become a constant battle of me having to walk on eggshells. When a productive forum becomes the "10%" is when you guys continuously jump down my throat for doing nothing different than anyone else. If you want to label me a "company man" then a place like this is bad for business because more often than not it serves not constructive purpose when its a boys club and not a community forum.
Berating: to scold or criticize someone *angrily.*
To be clear, I wasn't berating you. I was simply trying my best to explain something you said you "sincerely can't see." So I apologize if you had to read through what seems like a lesson on customer service, but hey, I was trying to be helpful. I posted it merely to try and give you a better understanding of some people's perspectives, not to tell you what to do.
Lol. I guess this is blowing out of proportion. Definitely escalated pretty quickly. It went from asking about print runs to business models and then social security numbers. Jackson, you pretty much put words into sinjin's mouth and then played the victim card. Lol btw, sinjin is only one person. Everyone else's comments isn't even berating. Everyone else simply posted to offer clarification *to help make things easier to understand. *
Berating: to scold or criticize someone *angrily.*
To be clear, I wasn't berating you. I was simply trying my best to explain something you said you "sincerely can't see." So I apologize if you had to read through what seems like a lesson on customer service, but hey, I was trying to be helpful. I posted it merely to try and give you a better understanding of some people's perspectives, not to tell you what to do.
Lol. I guess this is blowing out of proportion. Definitely escalated pretty quickly. It went from asking about print runs to business models and then social security numbers. Jackson, you pretty much put words into sinjin's mouth and then played the victim card. Lol btw, sinjin is only one person. Everyone else's comments isn't even berating. Everyone else simply posted to offer clarification *to help make things easier to understand. *
You're all good Sher, and no apology needed, your responses are always constructive. LoL why am I still typing....
JacksonRobinson wrote:Here are my thoughts. If this is supposed to be a community of individuals who converse about the playing card world then let that be what it is. Some here took it personally or started bad mouthing me that I took a leave of absence for a while. Who cares if I'm representing Kings Wild or myself the etiquette of respectfulness still applies to all. The biggest reason I left for a bit is because individuals who didn't necessarily represent a company but only themselves thought it was fair play to be sarcastic and say what ever they like with no fear of someone questioning your professionalism. Professionalism transfer to an individual in the form of respect. However the moment a the "company man" comes in and gives a little push back sarcastic or not, then I become an unprofessional business man who needs to take the Michael Scott's School of Costumer Service (said with a sarcastic tone) If you want people like me and others who are "company men" to be a part of the little boys club (said sarcastically) then I should be able to converse as an individual and or a "company man"
Sinji7, are you really going to write a response about sarcasm and online tone when you wrote the Campion of all Panjama Keyboard Hero novels (said very sarcastically) when you pinned your "Cricket" thesis about my shady business practices.
The only reason I would "take my ball and bat and go home" is if you guys don't let me play the game just like you guys. Forums like this are great when actual constructive conversations happen. But when they become a constant battle of me having to walk on eggshells. When a productive forum becomes the "10%" is when you guys continuously jump down my throat for doing nothing different than anyone else. If you want to label me a "company man" then a place like this is bad for business because more often than not it serves not constructive purpose when its a boys club and not a community forum.
Que Berating...
Sorry, but it doesn't really work that way. You ARE held to a higher standard. If you don't want to be, then create an anonymous account and join in as a user. You own a business and with that comes certain expectations of professionalism. You can decide to ignore those expectations at your own peril. I love your cards and your art. Your packaging is fantastic. I really appreciated the Fed52 tuck you threw in with my Independence order. I don't particularly care for your tone or lack of professionalism all the time. It all factors in as to whether or not I remain a customer (remember, I'm a customer who has spent north of $1K with you... my input should be worth something).
You are nowhere near as bad as some others I have seen, there is a reason I haven't spent a penny with Theory 11 or D&D in the past year. I hope you continue to participate and try to grow a very thick skin, I'm afraid you'll need it.
Strag is spot on. Jackson, as the head of your company you WILL be scrutinized more than the average user here (don't blame us - blame human psychology). Perhaps especially by people who have invested money in your products. But think of it this way; with the amount of comments that occurred when you had a leave of absence from this place, I'd say it's pretty clear that most of us WANT you here. And anyone who critiques you (constructively, and more things may be constructive than you'd think) usually do so because they want you to (continue to) succeed. There will be those that are never happy, and those that are simply in a bad mood and takes it out on you, but those people are everywhere.
1st and foremost, Sher, my comment wasn't really directed specificly at you. It was more a general response to the customer service angle that was being used, so my apologies.
I try and stay clear of these discussions for many reasons, I'm all for constructive critisism and a good conversation. But these discussions seem to just go around in a circle, it just keeps starting and stopping at the same spot.
I don't care who the designer is, their participation on any forum is 1st to stoke interest in their project. Now it's great when they become part of the group and have an equal voice, but is that really possible? I know, speaking from Kardify's perspective, it's very difficult to get any designer to really let their guard down. We say we want them to be themselves when they are here, but they really can't. We all know they have a business to run and products to move, and yes, even money to make. But as the "Regular" part of the forum can fire off in any way they feel, correct, incorrect, factual or opinion, a designer....a business owner, can't.
I'm not defending Jackson, I'm just saying that I see forums, groups and blogs wanting to invite designers into the fold as equals, but I really don't know if that's possible if the questions are always about the validity or structure of what they are doing and why.
I know someone said, and I'm sorry, I'm no going to roll back to quote, this was a simple question concerning if sheets were a part of the print run. A simple enough question, but if I'm used to having everything I do or say be negatively presented in conversation, there will be a knee jerk reaction. Now I'm not saying that's a good thing or the right response, but it almost always opens the floodgate to go on the offensive.....whether it be from one member or many.
I guess maybe I don't understand, when we launched Aquila we set a print run, and I would have never thought of describing that print run as 2530 because there were 30 uncut sheets, I don't think I've ever seen anyone who had uncut sheets do that, regardless of the print run. We advertised a 2500 "Deck" run, which is factual, we weren't trying to hide the additional sheets from the numbers, but they aren't decks.
Anyway, just adding my 2 cents when it seems appropriate, but I don't think everything is as black and white as we all want to make it at times.
)
couldn't get past the 2500 minimum with USPCC. I order a little over the 1000 as USPCC request for over unders and then took it in the teeth buy the rest in uncuts. Why do you think they are $20 now? They most likely will go down even further.
