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I went the opposite way, until Cartamundi proves themselves with delivered high quality decks again, Im 100% onboard the WJPC wagon.

And I know Omar has other projects he would like to get posted, funded and in production that waiting on a deck to be printed "eventually" is counter to. At this point Cartamundi is just a big black hole of hopes, dreams and past performance.

If anything Goldsmith should be one of the first decks getting printed, while that sounds good, it also makes it one of the decks that likely will be used to finalize the process or even potentially sadly prove what isnt up to standards yet/shouldnt be used for a deck of this calibre.

Evilgamer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:27 pm I went the opposite way, until Cartamundi proves themselves with delivered high quality decks again, Im 100% onboard the WJPC wagon.

And I know Omar has other projects he would like to get posted, funded and in production that waiting on a deck to be printed "eventually" is counter to. At this point Cartamundi is just a big black hole of hopes, dreams and past performance.

If anything Goldsmith should be one of the first decks getting printed, while that sounds good, it also makes it one of the decks that likely will be used to finalize the process or even potentially sadly prove what isnt up to standards yet/shouldnt be used for a deck of this calibre.

Jocu has said they are first in line and won't be experiencing as much of a delay as everyone else and frankly I'm confused at their confidence in that. Especially considering Cartamundi's track record with communication over the past year.

You all know I'm huge fan of Cartamundi. I'm not trying to throw them under the bus. BUT, they told me in December that the new samples would be shipping to me imminently. It's now the day before February. It's IMPOSSIBLE to predict when things will be ready BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW when they will be ready. Maybe Jocu has other information. I'm getting mine from Ann Folders,

My last email regarding the gilding said the following:

Please note however, that we are not ready yet to offer gilding with this (new) finish. We are still working on getting this set, and expect to be able to do so in a reasonable timeframe, but at the moment We can’t confirm and can’t quote for that, as testing is still ongoing.

EDITED for clarity. I don't want to confuse folks with conversations re other finishes/varnish.

For the sake of voting, I voted with what's true to my heart (such cliche lol), and wait further.

A keypoint on the email, Cartamundi will not rush an inferior product. Regarding the change in stock and feel, maybe it will be an upgrade from B9 that we all love. Otherwise, the WJPC alternative wouldn't be the same as intended anyway.

What I'm saying is we don't have all the cards on the table yet ( )

I understand that business-wise, the change is most optimal (as Wyrmwood demonstrated from the get-go). But I know as card collectors we all have that little bit of hope and patience, for the sake of quality that we love.

Thankfully we get to vote and honor whatever the results be.

Hol up b9 slimline is completely gone now? That’s kind of a big deal

Honestly I expect "wait" to win. I just think a good number may rethink that the longer this goes on.

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:31 pm

Evilgamer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:27 pm I went the opposite way, until Cartamundi proves themselves with delivered high quality decks again, Im 100% onboard the WJPC wagon.

And I know Omar has other projects he would like to get posted, funded and in production that waiting on a deck to be printed "eventually" is counter to. At this point Cartamundi is just a big black hole of hopes, dreams and past performance.

If anything Goldsmith should be one of the first decks getting printed, while that sounds good, it also makes it one of the decks that likely will be used to finalize the process or even potentially sadly prove what isnt up to standards yet/shouldnt be used for a deck of this calibre.

Jocu has said they are first in line and won't be experiencing as much of a delay as everyone else and frankly I'm confused at their confidence in that. Especially considering Cartamundi's track record with communication over the past year.

When I say first in line, I presume that means lumped in with anyone else who had files accepted and sent to prepress before the shutdown, which could well include Goldsmith. I don't expect to be given any precedent over others from the same period, it's just first come first serve as they stopped accepting files in June or July last year so anyone without confirmed files in the factory's hands then will be still waiting to go through that crucial first stage.

I'm not sure what communication issues others have had with Cartamundi. I just pick up the phone and talk to them when I need to... nothing they've said to me has been contradicted at any point so I have no reason to worry.

We have enough things to to worry about when it comes to business - taxes, shipping delays, lost packages and so on - that I don't feel the need to add Cartamundi to my list for now.

I think every situation is different. For us, it's imperative that ONDA V2 be the same printer as ONDA V1 for consistency, so all other options are a moot point - that project must be printed with Cartamundi and is already in processing.

For a new project? I can totally understand people researching alternative options.

crazy_lazy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:30 pm Hol up b9 slimline is completely gone now? That’s kind of a big deal

Where did you hear that? Finish may have been tweaked but stock hasn't changed to my knowledge.

I was told it was a new board as well.

Jocu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:30 am

I'm not sure what communication issues others have had with Cartamundi. I just pick up the phone and talk to them when I need to... nothing they've said to me has been contradicted at any point so I have no reason to worry.

We have enough things to to worry about when it comes to business - taxes, shipping delays, lost packages and so on - that I don't feel the need to add Cartamundi to my list for now.

Well I mean, outside of anything else, the factory shutdown and relocation happened with little to no notice to anyone. I'd call that a pretty huge communication breakdown.

To Adam’s point they relied on producers to disseminate the info rather release a press release.

I dunno, pretty much every producer except Jocu seems frustrated with their communication and shifting dates, that seems like a trend.

Jocu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:30 am

crazy_lazy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:30 pm Hol up b9 slimline is completely gone now? That’s kind of a big deal

Where did you hear that? Finish may have been tweaked but stock hasn't changed to my knowledge.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:17 pm
I will say that as of now the Cartamundi decks are NO LONGER b9 slimline. Both the varnish (b9) and the paper (slimline) are NO longer as they were. Its an entire new board and varnish/finish.

Seems like this is all unclear. I guess we'll have to wait for Cartamundi to give an official statement when they figure things out

crazy_lazy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:27 pm

Jocu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:30 am

crazy_lazy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:30 pm Hol up b9 slimline is completely gone now? That’s kind of a big deal

Where did you hear that? Finish may have been tweaked but stock hasn't changed to my knowledge.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:17 pm
I will say that as of now the Cartamundi decks are NO LONGER b9 slimline. Both the varnish (b9) and the paper (slimline) are NO longer as they were. Its an entire new board and varnish/finish.

Seems like this is all unclear. I guess we'll have to wait for Cartamundi to give an official statement when they figure things out

I can tell you that my conversation was pretty detailed. We discussed it because I was concerned the new board would be too thick for my pre-existing tuck boxes (that have already been designed and had plates made for). I was assured that the overall deck thickness was comparable to slimline. If it WAS slimline there would have been no need for this conversation.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:16 pm I can tell you that my conversation was pretty detailed. We discussed it because I was concerned the new board would be too thick for my pre-existing tuck boxes (that have already been designed and had plates made for). I was assured that the overall deck thickness was comparable to slimline. If it WAS slimline there would have been no need for this conversation.

It's at least a good thing that Cartamundi is keeping their stock thin and not regressing back to thicker stock like the superlux cards. Now I'm curious to see if the handling, gilding, etc is any good compared to WJPC. It's really hard to decide between the two printers without knowing really anything about Cartamundi's latest stock

Does Cartamundi have any samples they can send out to producers? Or are they still fiddling with the varnish and stock?

I think based on Omar's statements, looks like they're doing another round of prototypes, and that is delayed due to gilding.

I voted to wait. The option without gilding and $10 credit made me feel like I'd be getting even less for my buck, so that was my least favorite option. WJPC was my second choice. I'm still not a huge fan of the way their cards feel.

Jocu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:30 am I think every situation is different. For us, it's imperative that ONDA V2 be the same printer as ONDA V1 for consistency, so all other options are a moot point - that project must be printed with Cartamundi and is already in processing.

Are you going to get consistency from a new factory with a new board and a new varnish?

Honeybee wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:28 pm

Jocu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:30 am I think every situation is different. For us, it's imperative that ONDA V2 be the same printer as ONDA V1 for consistency, so all other options are a moot point - that project must be printed with Cartamundi and is already in processing.

Are you going to get consistency from a new factory with a new board and a new varnish?

More than we'd get from a completely different supplier yes.

Anyway, this isn't about Jocu projects so I'll happily continue any discussion on our own threads. The Goldsmith is a very different beast from ONDA, far more complex a print and it's like comparing apples and oranges.

I have received the sample Cartamundi decks. I can confirm that the stock, finish AND linen deboss are all different. It's not terrible although not as good as slimline b9 imo. The deck in my possession bows a bit and has developed a click. The overall thickness of the deck is the same. I have not seen a cold foil sample, only CMYK. And as mentioned NO GILDING. I will be making a video on my channel this week to go over this.

that doesnt sound promising, I will be looking forward to the complete thoughts video.

Sad news.

I wonder why no one else is talking about this as much. Maybe when the public gets their hand on it?

As for Goldsmith and Beetlebacks, I think going for the proven best foiling (WJPC) out there is the only option now. It's gonna take some pain with prototyping again, but oh well...
Waiting for the reaction video, and then a new round of surveys maybe?

obviously opinions will be had when the new cards are distributed, at this point the whole topic (other than the delays) is between Cartamundi and their card producing customers, some of which either doggedly want to stick to cartamundi no matter what that means for being able to print a sold run or post a new campaign, others have some degree of sunk cost to use them (tuck boxes for example, jocu has said to fit in with an existing series).

Me? I just want good cards I dont really care who prints them. And I dont like uncertainty.

S17 just said he was told they could only gild in silver or gold but was going to try something with another gilder. (hes been waiting for months to KS EOTO2 because he already cut plates for the tucks)

Cartamundi is not out of the woods... for the next 6 months, it's a gray area and afterward it's still nebulous, because they will have several unforeseen adjustments! For me, WJPC has proven itself in terms of quality. Their reliability has been demonstrated.

On the other hand, the price which was requested from the supporters of this project with Cartamundi must be revised downwards if WJPC is chosen.

The Gentleman Wake (Omar Chavez Jr.) is a professional and has proven his commitment to attentive customer service. I have confidence in his decision, because he knows the overall situation better than me. If he choose Cartamundi, I will follow, but I could probably be very satisfied with the quality of the WJPC production.

I'm still looking to know his final decision for the production of this project...

There's a survey that will let the customers decide. It's not entirely up to Omar, for now.

TOnight on episode 4 of deal me in we interview Russ Gray and talk about Cartamundi's new playing cards stock: Heraclio.
8:30 pm eastern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx9nyvvUhs

The results are in... and thankfully they coincide with the distressing new reports out of cartamundi.

I can confirm from a phone chat with Ann Folders at cartamundi that there is yet another lengthy delay in custom cards production pushing the first available decks to september 2024. This would be unacceptable and thankfully the decision is out of my hands. An overwhelming 64% of customers have shown preference for WJPC printing. I've already begun conversations to get things going there!

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:52 pm An overwhelming 64% of customers have shown preference for WJPC printing.

Hey Omar, I know you must be telling the truth and this is unintentional, but could you please show some graphic when you announce these kinds of things? It's been the same with the giveaway winners, and we're all like "Okay, I guess that's it?"

I know you're busy and all but it's just starting to look weird at this point.

p.s. I would vote wjpc if the survey is redone with all the new information

Here you go. Although I would have no reason to lie or not present the facts. SO I think the implication of 'looking weird' is definitely uncalled for.

And as far as announcing winners you can ask Kevork who liked your post above about whether or not he received his prize.

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:56 pm SO I think the implication of 'looking weird' is definitely uncalled for.

Thank you. I guess it's just the way these results are announced that not every participant is getting visibility, that's all.