Oath Mystery deck #2: DAMASK

[Thedissident001]

There is going to be an absolute and strict limit of 1 deck per person. Only Damask Red backers will be personally notified by email, not a newsletter and this will be when I'll be getting back to Greece. Meanwhile, make sure not to spend all of your money to Giovanni and Jackson's Kickstarters.

Well on principle alone, I for one will not be partaking in the purchase of any blue variant. You stated explicitly there would only be one and that was untrue. You can’t call it a mistake, or say it was an expensive print run, to justify this - if you were just curious about how they would have looked in turquoise and black, you’d have just printed a handful of decks for yourself and never sold them. As it is, you will sell off 140 decks @ ~$100 apiece - this is a commercial choice and little else, call it what it actually is.

The silly part in all of this was that you were never under any obligation to commit to people that there would only be one version of this deck. You did so voluntarily and wilfully - People purchased in good faith under these terms. How can people not be disappointed by this blatant breach of trust?

In my own honest opinion Lotrek, you create the very best playing cards available on the market. Trust is everything in this game, however, and when collectors are spending many hundreds of dollars a year on your offerings you can show a little more respect than patronising their entirely valid complaints when you have very clearly done the wrong thing by said backers.

[Bradius]

First dibs on thedissident001’s Blue Damask deck. Yeah me!

[Mike Ratledge]

"Fuel on the fire, fuel on the fire"...

Oh, yeah (got it) I am taking my exclusive one of a kind Damask with RatMan's fingerprints and running.

[Lotrek]

Well on principle alone, I for one will not be partaking in the purchase of any blue variant. You stated explicitly there would only be one and that was untrue. You can’t call it a mistake

"The silly part in all of this was that you were never under any obligation to commit to people that there would only be one version of this deck."

-Absolutely true. And this is why it wasn't intentional. I want to believe that if I were to deceive anyone I would be capable of much more elaborate tricks. This one is for high school kids.

"People purchased in good faith under these terms. How can people not be disappointed by this blatant breach of trust?"

Again I agree but I also believe that people mainly bought because they knew that the deck will be beautiful and worth its money. I don't think I fooled anyone by putting out some crappy lazy work.

"In my own honest opinion Lotrek, you create the very best playing cards available on the market. Trust is everything in this game, however, and when collectors are spending many hundreds of dollars a year on your offerings you can show a little more respect than patronising their entirely valid complaints when you have very clearly done the wrong thing by said backers."

Well, I don't think that I'm patronizing anyone. Does my reply to PipChick's post look like patronizing? On the contrary, I admit that your complaints are perfectly valid no matter what was my intention. Meanwhile, I'm getting all the time emails from people who express their fear that they may not be able to get a blue deck. So my main problem now should be if the blue ones are actually enough and so I could say: "just ignore them, they're the minority and even if they complain, at least half of them will try to get it in ebay". BUT, the truth is that you guys are right. It was a wrong decision but what is done, is done and cannot be fixed...

And regarding trust, how possible do you think it is for me to do such thing again? I'm not that stupid!

This conversation has seriously derailed. Can we get back to our topic now -which is cereals?

[ICantShuffle]

I think Lotrek has made his point. And, he acknowledges that ours is valid. Anything more is kind of just beleaguering the point and detracts from the discussion at hand-- the grace of our lord Steven Tyler and his oatmeal is the true oatmeal.

Lotrek: I get it, you work on something you're passionate about as a creator, this thought creeps into your head like "oh, I want to do this." So, you do it, honestly probably not thinking about a comment that you made on a web forum. Admittedly, I was caught off guard by it, but in retrospect I really don't want to discourage someone creating something they want and enjoy creating.

I think it's cool that you had anticipated what this might do and have at least put a priority on getting what you created into the hands of people who want it. It's fair and I can't really feel too raw about it, now.

As far as wanting things you created:

YOU. SHOW. CARD. BLUE.

GIVE. BLUE. CARD. ME.

[theCapraAegagrus]

As someone as hypercritical and unforgiving as I am, we need to give Lotrek a break, now. He certainly has not been patronizing in this thread. He can't go back in time to undo this mistake. It seems like he's genuinely apologetic and aware of his misdoings. We can't just keep beating him up once he's acknowledged all of our feedback. That won't do us, or him, any good. If you agree or disagree with any sentiment shared here, please do so, but don't 'lay the hammer down' on Lotrek and/or his mistake any further.

A mistake was made. He has apologized. He seems sincere and understanding of how to prevent this kind of response again. Kudos, Lotrek, for taking it like a champ and continuing to be a part of this conversation. If this type of thing never happens again, then it will be a small bad mark on an otherwise tremendous portfolio (it already kinda is rather "small").

[Lotrek]

As someone as hypercritical and unforgiving as I am, we need to give Lotrek a break, now.

TwoPiece, everything OK over there? Do we need to call a doctor or something???

[theCapraAegagrus]

As someone as hypercritical and unforgiving as I am, we need to give Lotrek a break, now.

TwoPiece, everything OK over there? Do we need to call a doctor or something???

I just want to be best friends when I, hopefully, get to meet you at next year's convention.

[Bikefanatic]

Tomorrow's the last day of the convention, I'll like to know how many red and blue decks will be available.

Will the leftover red decks be for public to buy and the blue deck leftovers for public after the pre-order people?

[Bradius]

Sorry, no more red and blue decks. I bought them all. I can post photos though. [MURRAY]

[Lotrek]

Tomorrow's the last day of the convention, I'll like to know how many red and blue decks will be available.

Will the leftover red decks be for public to buy and the blue deck leftovers for public after the pre-order people?

There should be like 40-50 decks left? Didn't really count them and seems I got too many with me. Those red decks will be available to anyone and since they're here I'll probably hand them to Gamblers Warehouse for fulfillment. The blue are only for those who pre-ordered the Red deck and if there's anything left (I doubt) it will also be available to the public.

[Adonael]

this is a commercial choice and little else, call it what it actually is.

Ugh, I hate it when people say this. It's so dumb. Seriously so dumb, and shows a strong lack of critical thinking. There was a post on facebook a while ago about flour sacks during one of the world wars, the company noticed that poor families clothed their children with the sacks after they were used, so the company started printing pleasant patterns on the sacks so they wouldn't be so ugly or boring. They clearly didn't have to, it cost them money, but they wanted to. In comes in the commenter who says 'this was just a business decision to make more more people buy their flour'. As if anything in life is black and white. If they did do it for those families, and in turn more people wanted their flour, that doesn't make it a business decision.

Creating something that people want, or for yourself and then find that other people do too, or for others, for a good reason, is not a business decision even if it benefits you commercially. If you really feel like everything that ends with an exchange of money is a commercial decision, then I suggest you become a hermit on a mountain. Lotrek clearly saw the opportunity to create something beautiful, something he wanted to share with his supporters, and couldn't resist doing so. It may have been a mistake, but it is passion, and you should take a long look at yourself and your life if you don't know what that is.

[Eric Lee]

Just my twocents, reading through all this. Lotrek, this could have been avoided if you have just posted/ mass emailed all the Damask backers informing us that due to a sudden surge of inspiration, you've decided to create a Blue Foil version.

Not sure if you remembered at the time that you had pledged to only have 1 Damask version. I don't think anyone would have cared as you had forewarned us that we will be expecting another version despite your initial pledge. Especially since you're promising the backers 1st dibs.

For an even more important point, as this was not mentioned at all here (I may have missed it) but how much are the blue foils going for? I'm really scared for my bank account since Lotrek mentioned it was really expensive. Will it be safe to assume it'll be at $100 ?

Also, not sure how you will release the blues, but don't forget us on the eastern side of the world! (Really glad you and JR have started to stagger your releases.)

Now, as for real penance for this unforgiveable breach of trust, sell the blue at the initial mystery price for us! (nah, I'm not one to begrudge artists their need to make a decent living. Still, 1 can dream and I'll keep dreaming as I wait patiently for the email )

[PipChick]

holy sh*t, I took the evening off away from the all this and to distract myself from the suddenly unexpected personal financial stresses of another Lotrek deck to spend Friday night doing... well, Friday night stuff... and now, there's like 3 whole pages added to this thread!!! lol Anyways, since it seems that most of the concerns that I might of had, have already been constructively expressed by other members here, I'll try to keep my own to the point.

First off, having been a pretty loud voice in this whole matter when it first came to light, allow me express my thanks & appreciation for Lotrek taking the time to address the raised concerns/issues regarding the blue deck and, doing so so graciously, which is not always an easy feat for anyone. I think this shows a real sense of sincerity in not just his understanding of where our dissatisfaction lies, but also in his efforts to make it right within his means.

Now, I do also have to mirror similar sentiments with what Merlebird stated earlier, and, having picked up 2 decks myself (and largely having decided to do so based on your word), I feel that I'm left in a similar predicament:

As far as cards go: if I had my druthers I'd've gotten just the blue version, if I'd bought one at all. As it stands I don't know if I'll keep the red one; I knew when I ordered that I was taking a gamble on whether or not the courts would be "custom enough" for me, and while I agree that foil is shiny, and that five foils is very shiny, I don't know if I'm magpie enough to keep something just because it's shiny. But knowing that the blue variant will only be offered to Damask Red buyers, I feel like I'm leaving money on the table if I don't pick one up.

I don't know. I never wanted to get into deck reselling or speculation - I resent opportunists trying to make a buck as much as the next hobbyist - but it feels like that's the behavior that's being encouraged, and it doesn't sit well with me.

Personally, I really stretched the budget - the budget I carefully planned out and diligently saved up for for far longer than I care to admit - to get two decks because that was what I could afford, not only at the time of pre-order, but in general. I am by no means a rich person with limitless disposable income despite my own spending habits in this hobbie that might, from an outsider, suggest otherwise. Now, with this blue variant, I fear that I'll be missing out because I, regrettably, made the poor decision ended up ordering the maximum I was able to afford of the one red variant I was explicitly told would be the only deck of it's kind to ever exist without considering the possibility that you'd go back on your word and produce a variant. And as misterharmanko pointed out, I'm sure I'm not alone in having made such big (or at least big for me) financial decisions based on your word and now find myself looking back with great regret at how I could have planned & saved differently. Perhaps I wouldn't have spent the time and money in travel/hotel expenses to attend the IPCS convention just 2 weeks ago, for example, or reconsidered other unnecessarily extraneous, yet avoidable purchases/expenses had I known of the sudden opportunity to purchase this deck was so imminent. Now granted, I'm sure it won't be difficult for me to find someone that would be more than willing to flip me the cash to order one on their behalf, but personally, I probably won't be able to add this blue variant to my own collection because of just not having the funds to do so at this time and that gives me a strong case of the sadz... understandable, no?

Anyways, I absolutely did not get into this hobby to resell - I have never done so and have very rarely ever even considered doing so based on principle - but now I'm kinda in a financial bind and feel absolutely sick to my stomach to be placed in such a predicament that has me seriously considering going against those principles and resell one of the decks... and, not only to just resell, but to do so almost immediately after receiving my order in a last ditch effort to recoup funds to be able to afford to get this damn blue variant which, btw, I could have very easily used the months of anticipation for this reveal/release to plan for in advance for and/or somehow figured out a way to afford had I known...

So, that's where I'm currently at... also, I hate the prospect of the stress & hassle involved in shipping - ugh. But anyways, if anyone around here is looking for yet another red edition (unlikely), let me know.... *god, I feel like such an effin' scumbag* where's the puke emoji when I need it...

Also, this all probably only further supports why I absolutely shouldn't/couldn't ever become a lawyer nor a diplomat despite my good speak skillz lol; I might be dead inside, but I still gotta live with myself besides, as a diplomat - or in pretty much any position dealing with politics - I would find it incredibly irritating to have to talk incessantly without ever actually saying anything lmao I'm clearly waaaayy too strongly opinionated for that shit lol

And now back to the important issue; cereal - it is my life and, if it wasn't deemed an adult obligated to make healthier, more responsible dietary choices, I would literally - morning, noon & night - eat nothing else. Also, while I agree you can't go wrong following 2pc's rule in regards to 'crunch' - a rule I also semi-strictly follow myself, there are so many many wonderful variants of cereal, and fortunately, all of which I can afford

[caniveski]

I am surprised that grape nuts havent yet got a mention. They stay crunchy in milk for ages. Great to add to muesli bases. I also believe they are an American brand which is easily available in UK

[Bikefanatic]

I think I said this about the Arabesque decks. If people knew it'll be 2 versions from the start, they would've got one of each or made better purchases then everyone would be happy.

At least I have a good chance of getting a red deck. For the blue, you gotta eat that high cost if you really want it. I'm not into profit resell but I understand.

[Mike Ratledge]

As someone as hypercritical and unforgiving as I am, we need to give Lotrek a break, now.

TwoPiece, everything OK over there? Do we need to call a doctor or something???

I just want to be best friends when I, hopefully, get to meet you at next year's convention.

16 blue were sold in about 5 minutes, along with maybe 22-25 red? I wasn't collecting the money, so not sure about the red ones. I still have 8 or 9 red decks here.

The remainder of the blue decks will be sold on oathplayingcards@gmail.com with a preference for those who have preoredered red unseen. We have not discussed it yet, but maybe able to substitute one blue if you ordered more than one red? I can't commit to that, but it seems reasonable to me. Nobody got more than one blue deck, he just didn't have many.

[PipChick]

We have not discussed it yet, but maybe able to substitute one blue if you ordered more than one red? I can't commit to that, but it seems reasonable to me. Nobody got more than one blue deck, he just didn't have many.

Even just the serious consideration would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

[JacksandJokers]

We have not discussed it yet, but maybe able to substitute one blue if you ordered more than one red?

How is this possible - I thought the Red decks had shipped from Greece already

I'd like to let you know though that the decks have already been sent from Greece about 2 days ago, full of Hellenic Post stamps etc.

[ICantShuffle]

So, should I be checking my email for the BLUE. CARD. GIB. or do I need to camp oathplayingcards with a refresh macro?

[Bradius]

I think we should let Lotrek get home and recover a little from jet lag.

[Mike Ratledge]

So, should I be checking my email for the BLUE. CARD. GIB. or do I need to camp oathplayingcards with a refresh macro?

Yeah I forgot that he had left packages on time delay so they could not ship until yesterday. My bad.

I am 99% certain that they will only be offered to buyers for the pre-sale (sight unseen, "Mystery Deck#2") and in my mind, likely to be basically none left after that.

[Bikefanatic]

Well I'm ready to get my red deck. Funny how there's no pics of it in this thread besides the front tuck. On ebay the blue deck is going for over $200!

[vedus]

Yeah. I'd be quite happy to get some more pics in this thread. That would be super.

[RichK]

FB pics...

[ICantShuffle]

I am 99% certain that they will only be offered to buyers for the pre-sale (sight unseen, "Mystery Deck#2") and in my mind, likely to be basically none left after that.

Understood, I was just wondering about when/how that would happen. Would hate to miss out on the opportunity for a blue deck (as a participant in the presale for the red deck) because I didn't get the email or missed the link post, etc.

[rousselle]

I am 99% certain that they will only be offered to buyers for the pre-sale (sight unseen, "Mystery Deck#2") and in my mind, likely to be basically none left after that.

Understood, I was just wondering about when/how that would happen. Would hate to miss out on the opportunity for a blue deck (as a participant in the presale for the red deck) because I didn't get the email or missed the link post, etc.

I'm sure we'll all start posting here when we get our e-mails, so you'll know when they're starting to get out there.

[Bradius]

Again, I will be happy with just the red edition. This looks to be another great mystery deck. I almost feel sorry for Lotrek in trying to best this one. However, given the hit to my bank account, I don't feel too sorry for Lotrek.

[Lotrek]

Hi again, all! Back from Cleveland where I had an amazing reception, far beyond my expectations!

So, now that I' a bit more relaxed here are a few thoughts.
First of all, @PipChick who took the time to write such a long post: All your points are perfectly valid and understood. This was an unfortunate situation due to a wrong decision. I can guarantee that next time I'll leave you in complete darkness regarding the Mystery decks But if I ever say "Only one version", there will be only one version. Period.

Regarding the remaining Red decks: To be honest I'm not sure how many are left in total. I have some left in Greece that I don't remember how many they are and about 40 decks with me in NY that will be sent to Gambler's Warehouse for fulfillment of the next wave that will be made available on Saturday 20 October at 10:00 AM. through http://www.oathplayingcards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The blue decks as I said will be sold after personally contacting each one of the "sight unseen" backers and the limit will be strictly 1 deck/person.

Thank you RichK for posting the pictures!

[JacksonRobinson]

Hi again, all! Back from Cleveland where I had an amazing reception, far beyond my expectations!

So, now that I' a bit more relaxed here are a few thoughts.
First of all, @PipChick who took the time to write such a long post: All your points are perfectly valid and understood. This was an unfortunate situation due to a wrong decision. I can guarantee that next time I'll leave you in complete darkness regarding the Mystery decks But if I ever say "Only one version", there will be only one version. Period.

Regarding the remaining Red decks: To be honest I'm not sure how many are left in total. I have some left in Greece that I don't remember how many they are and about 40 decks with me in NY that will be sent to Gambler's Warehouse for fulfillment of the next wave that will be made available on Saturday 20 October at 10:00 AM. through http://www.oathplayingcards.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The blue decks as I said will be sold after personally contacting each one of the "sight unseen" backers and the limit will be strictly 1 deck/person.

Thank you RichK for posting the pictures!

Honestly after seeing how nice these decks are first hand you should just send the remaining 40 to me and I'll ship them out personally wrapped in gold plated diapers. To ensure they don't get a scratch or ding on them..