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Sitting on the fence as afar as background goes; i think there could be something but it would need to be more subtle that the 2oS above;
Forgive the sucky PS, and perhaps a third colour wouldn't work, but you get the idea...

Looking great though!

I agree about the more subtle background. Makes happy both sides I think. I just wonder how it will be printed. It may become "muddy". As for the different color, I prefer to keep my basic elements limited. It's nice but it leads to a different direction. But I don't reject it. We'll see.

I like how people come with ideas and suggestions, usually I work in complete secrecy and I don't share anything before it's finished but the current project is kinda liberating for me. I don't hesitate to show unfinished stuff, sketches, mistakes etc. After all, I like watching other artists working, so why not others watch me working?

Thanks Joe!

Lotrek wrote:
I like how people come with ideas and suggestions, usually I work in complete secrecy and I don't share anything before it's finished but the current project is kinda liberating for me. I don't hesitate to show unfinished stuff, sketches, mistakes etc. After all, I like watching other artists working, so why not others watch me working?

Im glad this is working out well, we love to think we have had a hand in helping you with the design and thank you for the complement =D

Here we got quite a story... The KoH is drinking the poisoned wine from the QoH. He knows that it's poisoned but he wants to kill himself: He desperately loves his Queen while she hates him! He is holding his last letter to her.

I love that the cards contain these little stories in them.

Obviously the deck won't be funded in CL. Sad but true.

I'm considering all options to move with the deck and I'll let you know soon.

It's a shame - and no fault of the deck, but the super bumpy start with CL must have really dampened momentum.

As a whole CL needs a proper relaunch with a decent advertising campaign - obviously I wan't to see the deck a success, and that'll be your priority, but it'd be good to see CL a success too...

montecarlojoe wrote:It's a shame - and no fault of the deck, but the super bumpy start with CL must have really dampened momentum.

As a whole CL needs a proper relaunch with a decent advertising campaign - obviously I wan't to see the deck a success, and that'll be your priority, but it'd be good to see CL a success too...

+1. The deck is absolutely wonderful but unfortunately it's fallen victim to the rather lackluster launch and continuing issues of CardLauncher. I will follow your campaign anywhere you take it and I can only wish you and separately, CardLauncher, success in the future. Hopefully Mike et al figure out it's issues and get everything sorted with the diff payment processors before launching the next deck(s)

This deck (and the others on CL) will easily get funded on Kickstarter. Personally I think Kickstarter does a good job... they could use some improvement but not much. The fees KS charges I gladly pay unlike the postal fees (especially international) I pay. No matter what project I do... I always take a bath with postal rates. It makes me want to go postal!!
But back on topic, I really like all the decks on CL and they all deserve to be funded.

rjtomlinson1977 wrote:This deck (and the others on CL) will easily get funded on Kickstarter. Personally I think Kickstarter does a good job... they could use some improvement but not much. The fees KS charges I gladly pay unlike the postal fees (especially international) I pay. No matter what project I do... I always take a bath with postal rates. It makes me want to go postal!!
But back on topic, I really like all the decks on CL and they all deserve to be funded.

The biggest thing CL had going for it was Guaranteed Delivery. Unfortunately with all the launch problems, I think it's hard for supporters to believe in guaranteed delivery until there is a track record (catch-22). Not insinuating at all that Lotrek wouldn't have delivered, just talking about the USP that CL had over Kickstarter.

KS has a lot of other things going for it, including reach (their brand is already known) and depth (being able to cross-sell genres is a big advantage. I first heard about custom cards when backing a game). Their lack of responsiveness and refusal to police their marketplace is what I dislike. I now back much less than I used to so I can avoid getting ripped off. So far three projects have failed to delivery (two of them playing card projects) and to me that is just unconsionable.

I see Lee gave a shout out to this deck and CL in his latest update
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ki ... sts/994712

If a bunch of other projects would do the same there's a chance to get more people interested to make these happen, but it's a super long shot. Also, is there something buried in the KS terms that you can't advertise a potential KS competitor on their platform? If not, then it's too bad partnerships and cross promotion agreements weren't done a lot sooner.

ecNate wrote:I see Lee gave a shout out to this deck and CL in his latest update

If a bunch of other projects would do the same there's a chance to get more people interested to make these happen, but it's a super long shot. Also, is there something buried in the KS terms that you can't advertise a potential KS competitor on their platform? If not, then it's too bad partnerships and cross promotion agreements weren't done a lot sooner.

I think we're all beyond the point where it really matters for this cycle, Nate. If there is something in KS' ToS they have never enforced it, but - then again, who knows? Have you tried to read that thing? Nobody wants to see this work more than I did, and I suppose I spent a whole lot of time with my nose in too deep to see just how much crap would go down when we really tried.

Now - "Weekend Of Wonder" magic festival? That was a blast! I need to go update and finish out that thread and unsticky it.

Well it might have funded if all Kickstarter backers knew about it, don't think it was ever mentioned in an update that I am aware of.

Same with the Brimstones, never mentioned once by Gamblers anywhere so how could it fund? And there seemed to be a lack of updates from most CL creators except for maybe Phil.

jerichoholic wrote:Well it might have funded if all Kickstarter backers knew about it, don't think it was ever mentioned in an update that I am aware of.

Same with the Brimstones, never mentioned once by Gamblers anywhere so how could it fund? And there seemed to be a lack of updates from most CL creators except for maybe Phil.

Actually it was mentioned in at least five updates posted - on KS from Lotrek two or three times, on GW's mailing list to all and Lee McKenzie's recent update on Bloodlines.

Phil has done a great job, and Giovanni posted quite a few updates during his campaign as well. It's just oversaturation right now, too many decks, too few wallets. If there were half the number of people that expressed interest in CL actually there pledging for these decks, it wouldn't have been a problem. The fact is - there aren't/weren't.

I'm with Lotrek, Giovanni & GW regardless of how they handle things, and my thoughts are they would fund on KS or CL _if_ we had the traffic. Over to KS they go...

I disagree, promoting the decks wasn't the problem at all. Too many people were NOT willing to put their CC info directly onto a site that they didn't know/trust. If paypal or Amazon payments were offered, these decks would be funded twice by now.

I have pledged for both but I have to admit not using Paypal or Amazon is a pretty big deterrent. I'm confident that my money is safe but still.

Mike Ratledge wrote:
Phil has done a great job, and Giovanni posted quite a few updates during his campaign as well. It's just oversaturation right now, too many decks, too few wallets. If there were half the number of people that expressed interest in CL actually there pledging for these decks, it wouldn't have been a problem. The fact is - there aren't/weren't.

Mike, I hope you realize it was was WAY more than what I've coloured in above. If you do honestly believe that, you are doomed to make the same mistakes again. Myself and many others have given you sound, logical advice which you chose to ignore (obviously your right as the controlling owner in the business). I'm disappointed, only because I truly do want to see you succeed but the fact is you rushed your launch and have paid a price.

I 100% believe that Venexia Dark will fund on KS. Brimstone *might*. Good v Evil will do well as long as goals are kept low and timing is, of course, also going to be a key.

Strag wrote:

Mike Ratledge wrote:Phil has done a great job, and Giovanni posted quite a few updates during his campaign as well. It's just oversaturation right now, too many decks, too few wallets. If there were half the number of people that expressed interest in CL actually there pledging for these decks, it wouldn't have been a problem. The fact is - there aren't/weren't.

Mike, I hope you realize it was was WAY more than what I've coloured in above. If you do honestly believe that, you are doomed to make the same mistakes again. Myself and many others have given you sound, logical advice which you chose to ignore (obviously your right as the controlling owner in the business). I'm disappointed, only because I truly do want to see you succeed but the fact is you rushed your launch and have paid a price.

I 100% believe that Venexia Dark will fund on KS. Brimstone *might*. Good v Evil will do well as long as goals are kept low and timing is, of course, also going to be a key.

Nah, of course - I know better. The fact is that PayPal has changed their minds three times in the past six weeks, and now say "They don't support the crowd funding business model", as of the 18th. Amazon Payments isn't offered by any of the crowd funding vendors as far as I know (except of course KS) and they have enough pull to make it happen whereas the little guy - like me - doesn't. The fact of the matter is that it would have helped a lot if PayPal hadn't approved, disapproved, asked for more information and then stomped on it once again, no question at all. We tested with PayPal for more than 6 weeks using their own Crowd Funding Guidelines (which are still online at this time, even though they say "they don't support that business model"). So, what exactly would have happened if we didn't offer WePay? We would have gone through all the same hoops only to find out that nobody would take payments at all. AP was an option - if we wanted to pay $5000 to get it done, and that's a losing proposition when it takes $100,000 in funding to repay that one "upgrade". No amount of delays would have made a single bit of difference. We based out plans on PayPal and did precisely what they wanted, word for word, letter for letter, only for them to decide they weren't in the business of crowd funding.

Let's start a CL pains thread and keep out of the way of everything else.

Well, it is a fact that there are too many decks and too few wallets now, but the best decks will still thrive and get whatever is in those fewer wallets. I feel the Venexiana Dark is one of those decks that is so good that it should still do fine despite the oversaturation of decks. I already told Lotrek that I love this deck, but I was going to wait until all the kinks were worked out of CL before pledging. Now it seems like my support will be a moot point, unfortunately.

We can officially call this first round of funding a failure because none of the decks will achieve their funding goals (oh please, don't bring up Can-eh-Diana, we can all see though the ultra low funding goal and a whopping 30 backers). The second round of funding is going to be critical for Mike and his investors. He better view things realistically and put aside his hubris and take his time and do whatever it takes to insure success the second time around because CL will not be able to survive a failed second round and there will be no chance given for a third round at that point. Unfortunately, we're coming up on an extremely difficult time of the year with the holidays coming up where money's going to be tight because all the big boys (E, T11, etc...) are going to be releasing their holiday promotions soon.

I think there are enough positive aspects of CL that it could still succeed and find a needed place in the world of playing cards. Its going to require some serious PR damage control and marketing, and Mike is clearly not the one for that role. This is evident because we all saw his rambling, stream-of-thought way of communication in his CL emails with their grammar issues and endless run-on sentences. Mike needs to find a Public Relations professional and a copy editor to polish things up.

I supported this deck on CL, and I will support it on KS (on which funding should be quick and easy). About CL, if Paypal and Amazon Payments are out of the mix - can you say dead in the water.

I think that the CL failure at this point has to do with a mix of factors and market saturation is not in the mix. I'm 100% certain that most of my backers have chosen NOT to support Venexiana on CL. I had about 250 backers on CL and many of them were new names for me while I had informed at least 800 people about Venexiana. And I don't believe that all these people didn't have money to pledge even for 1 deck.

The deck will eventually go to KS a few days after the end of the CL campaign and I hope that we'll see the circle of Venexiana closing smoothly. It's great that Mike still shows his support. After all he's "passionate about playing cards"!

StanKindLee wrote:I supported this deck on CL, and I will support it on KS (on which funding should be quick and easy). About CL, if Paypal and Amazon Payments are out of the mix - can you say dead in the water.

Yep, I can. That's why I didn't respond to Strag. No amount of money thrown into advertising nor PR can repair the problem, although I have to wonder if anyone that doesn't want to hand out their card numbers to WePay have been to Target or Home Depot in the past 18 months? Water under the bridge at this point.

Let's get back to getting Lotrek's decks funded - on KS, obviously.

Lotrek wrote:I think that the CL failure at this point has to do with a mix of factors and market saturation is not in the mix. I'm 100% certain that most of my backers have chosen NOT to support Venexiana on CL. I had about 250 backers on CL and many of them were new names for me while I had informed at least 800 people about Venexiana. And I don't believe that all these people didn't have money to pledge even for 1 deck.

The deck will eventually go to KS a few days after the end of the CL campaign and I hope that we'll see the circle of Venexiana closing smoothly. It's great that Mike still shows his support. After all he's "passionate about playing cards"!

(from the Evil Deck and Good Deck thread)

Yashi wrote:Okay, I'll come clean. I didn't pledge for these or the Venexianas on CL. It's not that I didn't like the cards (I voted for the evil deck in PCF! and Lotrek's work is as amazing as ever). I was just too lazy to input my credit card details again. You'll have my support the next time around, I promise!

I think this was the case for a good sizeable chunk of people (including me, sorry Lotrek ).

Godzillian wrote:

Lotrek wrote:I think that the CL failure at this point has to do with a mix of factors and market saturation is not in the mix. I'm 100% certain that most of my backers have chosen NOT to support Venexiana on CL. I had about 250 backers on CL and many of them were new names for me while I had informed at least 800 people about Venexiana. And I don't believe that all these people didn't have money to pledge even for 1 deck.

The deck will eventually go to KS a few days after the end of the CL campaign and I hope that we'll see the circle of Venexiana closing smoothly. It's great that Mike still shows his support. After all he's "passionate about playing cards"!

(from the Evil Deck and Good Deck thread)

Yashi wrote:Okay, I'll come clean. I didn't pledge for these or the Venexianas on CL. It's not that I didn't like the cards (I voted for the evil deck in PCF! and Lotrek's work is as amazing as ever). I was just too lazy to input my credit card details again. You'll have my support the next time around, I promise!

I think this was the case for a good sizeable chunk of people (including me, sorry Lotrek ).

I understand. Myself I'm also too lazy sometimes to do simple things (like inputing my credit cards details) and this laziness is something that should never be underestimated when you're dealing with the internet. When you ask for people's support, you need to make things as easy as possible for them. CL suffered from paypal's ambiguous attitude. I hope that the site's comeback will be successful.

I have used my credit card so much, I have memorized the numbers, so I don't even have to pull it out of my wallet.

Mike Ratledge wrote:

StanKindLee wrote:No amount of money thrown into advertising nor PR can repair the problem, although I have to wonder if anyone that doesn't want to hand out their card numbers to WePay have been to Target or Home Depot in the past 18 months?

First of all.
I backed this deck on CL as well as the Good Deck and. Brimstone ( not the horrible Ca-meh-dian deck)
So I didn't suffer from the supposed laziness ( for once).
But I have to say after this deck didn't take off in the first couple weeks I am glad they didn't fund.
Nothing against CL, I just don't want this deck to get printed at the bare minimum ( which is the best it could hope for on CL)
This deck has the potential to be done beautifully, and it needs that funding or everyone will be disappointed with what they get (no matter how nice) because of what was missed.

Also
I have not shopped at Target since the announcement of the theft
I did go to Home Depot on Monday, but I paid with cash.
Nor have I been to Chic-Fil-A in over 3 years, but that is for other reasons than poor banking practices.

Sher wrote:I have used my credit card so much, I have memorized the numbers, so I don't even have to pull it out of my wallet.

Me too Sher, maybe it's a girl thing? Although being lazy is what made me memorize them. I got tired of having to go find my wallet whenever I was shopping online n the middle of the night.

Really sorry that CL hasn't worked out. I agree with most of the people on here that it's a combination of reasons, and I think a big one that I've only seen mentioned a few times is just the size of people ks reaches the CL just can't (at least at this point in time).

That said, I pledged for this deck on CL and will definitely follow it to ks and pledge again. Hopefully the LE will be a stretch goal, or the goal amount will just start off high enough for both decks to be printed. Not sure if the LE decks being before the standard edition caused any funding issues either, it seemed like that was a bit confusing to some of the backers though.

charlie

charlie81dbz wrote: Hopefully the LE will be a stretch goal, or the goal amount will just start off high enough for both decks to be printed. Not sure if the LE decks being before the standard edition caused any funding issues either, it seemed like that was a bit confusing to some of the backers though.

charlie

There will be some changes in the structure of the KS campaign. I don't think that the fact that I had the limited edition first played any significant role. Sure, it was kinda strange -just as night Venice is- but the fact remains that only 250 people were willing to pledge and I really don't believe this deck is that uninteresting!

The initial idea was to have the Limited Edition first, with all courts masked and then I would reveal the faces on the Original edition. But I thought that having a deck with all courts masked would be a bit boring and also having another deck without masks at all would lack mystery. So I'll probably have 6 masked -6 unmasked on each deck. The masked courts in the L.E. will be unmasked in the O.E. and vice versa.

I'm also working on something quite unique for the "Signature" edition. I mean, really unique!

Ooh. Will it be foiled to compliment Venexiana and Grotesque?

Lotrek wrote: The initial idea was to have the Limited Edition first, with all courts masked and then I would reveal the faces on the Original edition. But I thought that having a deck with all courts masked would be a bit boring and also having another deck without masks at all would lack mystery. So I'll probably have 6 masked -6 unmasked on each deck. The masked courts in the L.E. will be unmasked in the O.E. and vice versa.

This makes me sad. I LOVED the idea of an entire deck masked and another unmasked. That really played into the story line and made me want both decks. If both are mixed I would be more likely to just go with the first one.

If you end up doing the mixed masks, please make it work with the stories, I really enjoyed that aspect. You should even maybe write up the story on a double sided card that explains what is happening with a back story.