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Cardians wrote:Don't mind Justin O., he seems to be an avid critic when it comes to EVERYTHING! As he said earlier, "this might be an issue for some". What it sounds like it's just "an issue" for him. He's just one of 739 backers screaming from the peanut gallery!!

don't be an ass. I have said time and time again that this is my favorite of S17's designs. The one point of criticism I've made being 'this is an issue for some'? Wow, the rapier sharp criticism I strike with!! How will an established and loved designer with a half dozen wildly successful designs under his belt ever survive my might.

Justin ....
Like this ....
Don't be a COMPLETE ASS ....

Bruno wrote:Wrong Justin ....
Like this ....
Don't be COMPLETE ASS ....

???

Not you lad.
I don't understand where he got all that from either.
Projection.

Look fantastic!
Don't mind the double seal, I have had the same issue with some USPCC decks (the one I recall now is Grid 2.0) so it is not a big deal!

Justin O. wrote:I am likely the minority, but production issues like this are an issue for me.

Is that not you on the KS update page?

What really is the big deal? Is your life going to be put on hold because of a dbl tuck seal. I made my comment about you because I wonder why you would even need to make a such a displeasure comment to Lorenzo, the backers or the followers on UC. You should consider keeping your displeasure to yourself. Did you expect Lorenzo to send the finished decks back or have the ship turn around and fix the issue?

oooooOOOooo .....
bit fussed yerslf aincher, deary ?

Bruno wrote:oooooOOOooo .....
bit fussed yerslf aincher, deary ?

LOL Your broken English is a bit messed.

Tzzzzz .....
Justins quoted line encompassed all he wanted to infer, but ol' mate Cardians 'don't wanna perceive'.

Cardians wrote:

Justin O. wrote:I am likely the minority, but production issues like this are an issue for me.

Is that not you on the KS update page?
What really is the big deal? Is your life going to be put on hold because of a dbl tuck seal. I made my comment about you because I wonder why you would even need to make a such a displeasure comment to Lorenzo, the backers or the followers on UC. You should consider keeping your displeasure to yourself. Did you expect Lorenzo to send the finished decks back or have the ship turn around and fix the issue?

I don't feel like my comment was that out of hand. I didn't accuse him of making a mistake or screwing up, I didn't say anything rude or out of hand. I didn't say it made me like the deck less or ask for a refund. I never said it made the deck less valuable, I didn't even criticize the factory for making a mistake, I just asked if they were going to do anything about it, expressed that productions errors like this are an issue to me, without speaking for anyone but me, and when I did on the forum I even expressed that that group was a minority, and asked if in his experience he had had any luck in removing the second sticker. I feel like my reaction was reasonable.

Justin O. wrote:

Cardians wrote:What really is the big deal? Is your life going to be put on hold because of a dbl tuck seal. I made my comment about you because I wonder why you would even need to make a such a displeasure comment to Lorenzo, the backers or the followers on UC. You should consider keeping your displeasure to yourself. Did you expect Lorenzo to send the finished decks back or have the ship turn around and fix the issue?

I don't feel like my comment was that out of hand. I didn't accuse him of making a mistake or screwing up, I didn't say anything rude or out of hand. I didn't say it made me like the deck less or ask for a refund. I never said it made the deck less valuable, I didn't even criticize the factory for making a mistake, I just asked if they were going to do anything about it, expressed that productions errors like this are an issue to me, without speaking for anyone but me, and when I did on the forum I even expressed that that group was a minority, and asked if in his experience he had had any luck in removing the second sticker. I feel like my reaction was reasonable.

No one is probably displeased more about the double seals than Lorenzo himself, so I'm sure he's going to understand if there may be some others who are displeased as well. Whether you agree with Justin O or not, he's entitled to his displeasure, and a candid place like UC is a perfectly appropriate place to voice your opinion (as long as its not done offensively, and Justin O clearly wasn't). I'm going to wait and hold judgement on these seals until I get my decks and see them for myself. If the second seal is squarely on top of the first, then I won't have any problems with it. But if the top seal is really offset from the bottom and it's very obvious, then I'll probably be "displeased" myself because this deck is so awesome that I want it to be as perfect as possible.

I'm starting to be pretty concerned about EPCC/LPCC's ability to produce error-free tucks. If a designer uses premium stock and incorporates all the bells and whistles, then the tuck is the single most expensive element in the production of a custom deck of cards. But more and more frequently I'm seeing issues with tucks not sized correctly and being too tight, or tuck flaps that flake and fray, and now incorrectly applied deck seals. And, they don't seem to be too cooperative in fixing the issues, either.

sinjin7 wrote:I'm starting to be pretty concerned about EPCC/LPCC's ability to produce error-free tucks. If a designer uses premium stock and incorporates all the bells and whistles, then the tuck is the single most expensive element in the production of a custom deck of cards. But more and more frequently I'm seeing issues with tucks not sized correctly and being too tight, or tuck flaps that flake and fray, and now incorrectly applied deck seals. And, they don't seem to be too cooperative in fixing the issues, either.

Do they print their tucks in house?
I know some printers outsource tucks to other companies but can't think of any examples right now.

Justin O. wrote:

sinjin7 wrote:I'm starting to be pretty concerned about EPCC/LPCC's ability to produce error-free tucks. If a designer uses premium stock and incorporates all the bells and whistles, then the tuck is the single most expensive element in the production of a custom deck of cards. But more and more frequently I'm seeing issues with tucks not sized correctly and being too tight, or tuck flaps that flake and fray, and now incorrectly applied deck seals. And, they don't seem to be too cooperative in fixing the issues, either.

Do they print their tucks in house?
I know some printers outsource tucks to other companies but can't think of any examples right now.

Actually, unless it's the very simple ones (no embossing, no foil, etc) USPCC outsources the printing of all tucks for their custom decks division, meaning basically all of the decks that we see (Kickstarter, etc) decks are using tucks printed by someone other than USPCC.

There's a definite problem right now with timing / coordination of having the tucks ready at the right time to match up with the decks themselves being printed and ready to assemble into the final product, and has been for more than a year - at least, now. They do print the basic tucks themselves, but otherwise - it's done "outside the house", which means about 90% of custom decks are done that way.

Mike Ratledge wrote: Actually, unless it's the very simple ones (no embossing, no foil, etc) USPCC outsources the printing of all tucks for their custom decks division, meaning basically all of the decks that we see (Kickstarter, etc) decks are using tucks printed by someone other than USPCC.
There's a definite problem right now with timing / coordination of having the tucks ready at the right time to match up with the decks themselves being printed and ready to assemble into the final product, and has been for more than a year - at least, now. They do print the basic tucks themselves, but otherwise - it's done "outside the house", which means about 90% of custom decks are done that way.

That's great information, thanks! What about the other big guys?

Justin O. wrote:

Mike Ratledge wrote: Actually, unless it's the very simple ones (no embossing, no foil, etc) USPCC outsources the printing of all tucks for their custom decks division, meaning basically all of the decks that we see (Kickstarter, etc) decks are using tucks printed by someone other than USPCC.
There's a definite problem right now with timing / coordination of having the tucks ready at the right time to match up with the decks themselves being printed and ready to assemble into the final product, and has been for more than a year - at least, now. They do print the basic tucks themselves, but otherwise - it's done "outside the house", which means about 90% of custom decks are done that way.

That's great information, thanks! What about the other big guys?

AFAIK, everybody else has all their tucks done by someone other than "in house", but I could be very wrong about that as far as Expert & Legends PCCs go. Bill? I _know_ that MPC does their own tucks, albeit all pretty similar and simple by nature, and would not be the least bit surprised if they used someone 'close' (i.e. another part of their own enterprise - MakePlayingCards.com is owned by QPP of Taiwain - the "Quality Production" later "Printing Press" as I remember, though that could easily be a fake memory - it _is_ something close to that. I think they prefer "QP Group" now, although QPP.COM is still the website address for the over-arching enterprise that owns all of those.

My best guess is that Expert / Legends uses there own tuck production that's either done by themselves or a group inside the firm itself.

I am pleased to say that my decks arrived today and I had to look very hard to notice the double labels even though to me it really wasn't a problem at all if they were obvious.
Good job as always, Lorenzo!

A red cat showed up today. The tuck is wonderful plus I really like the red foiled eyes on each card back.

Bikefanatic wrote:A red cat showed up today. The tuck is wonderful plus I really like the red foiled eyes on each card back.

Here as well, the tuck is the sturdiest one for a standard design I've seen. Super rigid and strong, yet very useable and not overly tight. The foil on the tuck and the back is also really impressive and fun to look at from different angles. Nice die cut feature, a numbered serial that ISN'T a stupid messy seal. The only thing missing is interior printing. The cards of course are great as well. Superb job! Certainly a top contender for deck of the year 2016, I would say the best delivered so far anyhow!

thanx guys! glad that you like them
I agree with ecNate about the inner graphics... better with those, but the foil on the back was so expensive that I had to decline :-/

Well, fulfillment started. I hope to solve the issue with the half-brick boxes soon. Today or tomorrow I should get an answer by EPCC.
thanx for the patience
Lorenzo

Just posted a review this morning
https://youtu.be/F55rtdyQax8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My decks arrived yesterday. Very beautiful and classy! I love the combination of red and black foil on the tuck: a subtle but important detail.
I LOVE the double seal. It adds mystery to the cat deck

Congrats, Lorenzo!

thank you Mr. Lotrek
too bad that I had a lot of issues with the production and 100+ backers are waiting for their rewards.
The double seal is a "touch" of the taiwanese factory. They gave me the dumbest explanation ever.
cheers

She'll be right, matey ! !

This gets said heaps in Oz, mostly in extreme optimism.
(Just sayin' yeh .... being one of them per centers)

Guess what came in the mail today! BEAUTIFUL!

nice! I hope you like it
the lasercut is not super-perfect in some points. But that´s on all the decks.
Thank you for backing

Stunning, absolutely incredible! Cannot wait to get mine

O, o yair, yehyehyeh, oh boy yeh.
How Incroyamentablè, plùs, plùs Supèrbe.

[quote=I had writ]
O, o yair, yehyehyeh, oh boy yeh.
How Incroyamentablè, plùs, plùs Supèrbe.[/quote]

Expectations so greatly surpassed .... !
(and your half brick boxes are terrific ! You need to repeat on these ....)
Thank you so much Lorenzo .... So very good !

Guys,
just for the record, there is a Le Chat Rouge leftover (coins and decks) I am selling on my website.
FREE SHIPPING worldwide
check it out if interested

http://www.stockholm17.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That wood library shelf... ZOMG