"Delirium" (UC2015 Deck) - deck fulfillment shipped!

[Stockholm17]

backed!

[Mike Ratledge]

Thanks for your support, everyone. I know - especially one & two decks with international shipping is higher than it should be, that's always the worst case. Maybe we can figure out how to get Paul to stock them for Britain & Europe? Not sure.

We're listening and will adjust. Thanks for the constructive criticism! Uncuts pricing was adjusted down, and a few inconsistent things were fixed thanks to the eagle-eyes here.

Sorry we can't fix everything - pricing is always sensitive. If we knew we were printing 2500+ we could work on it now, but we don't. There are some good surprises ahead!

[sms69x]

The deck looks really nice, would love to back it, as I did with the previous UC decks, but this one is way too expensive, even at a 6 deck tier it would be $14 per deck, way too much... The prices just keeping going up...

Good luck anyway!

[Cbkimble]

The deck looks really nice, would love to back it, as I did with the previous UC decks, but this one is way too expensive, even at a 6 deck tier it would be $14 per deck, way too much... The prices just keeping going up...

Good luck anyway!

Are you shipping internationally b/c I don't see anything more than $12.50 a deck.

[cosmicsecret]

Just a quick question : i See no UC reference in the deck or did i missed something?

[chach]

Just a quick question : i See no UC reference in the deck or did i missed something?

Very small on the AoS. I nearly missed it too. No offense to the designer, it's an awesome looking deck (if a bit overpriced), but as a UC deck, it's a bit lacking.

[Thirdway Industries]

Just a quick question : i See no UC reference in the deck or did i missed something?

The tuck box will be customized too, take a look (some renderings was already updated):

The biggest reference, however, is the green color, and probably is one of the reasons it was chosen as UC 2015 deck.

[vasta41]

I don't have a problem with this being the 2015 UC deck at all. To me, there's enough references to make it so while also being unique. I just hope the UC2016 deck doesn't trend this way. Sinjin brought up some very good points in an earlier post. The deck should definitely promote UC by being cheaper for us members and also cheaper in general, more like the first deck. And even though I'm very happy with this one I'd love to see that for 2016.

[snsdmonkey]

I don't have a problem with this being the 2015 UC deck at all. To me, there's enough references to make it so while also being unique. I just hope the UC2016 deck doesn't trend this way. Sinjin brought up some very good points in an earlier post. The deck should definitely promote UC by being cheaper for us members and also cheaper in general, more like the first deck. And even though I'm very happy with this one I'd love to see that for 2016.

Agree on all points.

[Cbkimble]

I don't have a problem with this being the 2015 UC deck at all. To me, there's enough references to make it so while also being unique. I just hope the UC2016 deck doesn't trend this way. Sinjin brought up some very good points in an earlier post. The deck should definitely promote UC by being cheaper for us members and also cheaper in general, more like the first deck. And even though I'm very happy with this one I'd love to see that for 2016.

Agree as well

[sms69x]

The deck looks really nice, would love to back it, as I did with the previous UC decks, but this one is way too expensive, even at a 6 deck tier it would be $14 per deck, way too much... The prices just keeping going up...

Good luck anyway!

Are you shipping internationally b/c I don't see anything more than $12.50 a deck.

Yes I'm international.

[Sher]

I don't have a problem with this being the 2015 UC deck at all. To me, there's enough references to make it so while also being unique. I just hope the UC2016 deck doesn't trend this way. Sinjin brought up some very good points in an earlier post. The deck should definitely promote UC by being cheaper for us members and also cheaper in general, more like the first deck. And even though I'm very happy with this one I'd love to see that for 2016.

Maybe the price could be cheaper, but I hope no one is getting ideas that it can be as cheap as $5. I know that's how much it cost for UC members to buy the first deck, but even by printing with EPCC, pricing a deck with a small print run for $5 would probably cause the creator to lose money. Not to mention, there are additional costs incurred for shipping. Shipping one deck costs $3-4 domestically, and up to $12 internationally (I discovered this when I sent a package off to Europe; the deck was covered in bubble wrap and packed neatly into a small indestructo cardboard box that was small enough to fit just one deck).

Also remember that the first UC deck had a $7,000 goal and it barely made it (some anonymous backer had to pledge $2,600 to ensure its funding). How much does it cost to print a USPCC deck? I actually have no precise answer for this, but seeing a $7,000 goal for one print run usually concerns people. Mike F. was trusted, so of course the possibility of a scam or failure to fulfill were slim, but seriously, it never occurred to anyone that he may have incurred some of the costs himself just to complete the whole project? He ran a playing card business, so he was probably okay with putting up some money upfront to get the decks printed and shipped since he could recoup the costs as a reseller, but that's a huge risk for other artists, especially those new to the playing card market.

I'm NOT insinuating that anyone suggesting a cheaper price wants the artist to lose out. I'm just brining up some points that I think are worth considering. It can be cheaper, but not as cheap as $5.

[Mike Ratledge]

We're looking at member benefits, but I wasn't here during the first deck. How can it be different prices on KS?

[MagikFingerz]

We're looking at member benefits, but I wasn't here during the first deck. How can it be different prices on KS?

It can't. The first one had a pre-order here on the forum prior to the KS campaign.

[runit]

I really liked how the first deck was put up. Not because of price, but because I felt that UC members was priority one and UC members had the most benefit from it.

I can't recall any incentive as a UC member from the 2nd deck. For the third deck, might just pick up one just to have the series going.

Maybe it's just me, but I felt like the United Cardists branding on the decks as years passed are just mere letters written on the tuck. And I am looking forward to 2016 to get things changed.

I hope the deck gets on to the hands of most of the members, which was the main objective from the first deck. But with that price...

[vasta41]

We're looking at member benefits, but I wasn't here during the first deck. How can it be different prices on KS?

It can't. The first one had a pre-order here on the forum prior to the KS campaign.

Correct. Maybe instead of EBs, before it goes on KS, take pre-orders here similar to the way Gold Venexiana was handled (with less exclusivity, of course) offering an EB type price to UC members. Then by the time it hits KS, the funding goal can be a little lower due to all the support I'm sure it will get here first. It's obviously a year away but I'm just thinking out loud...

[sinjin7]

When I had discussions with Mike F on the original UC Deck, the primary purpose wasn't to make a profit, but to promote the site and have a unique deck that members could be proud of, and Mike F did put up a lot of his own money to get this created (but he did get all the excess decks for his BMPokerworld site as well). And Randy can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think he was paid a whole lot (if any) for his participation in the first deck. Mike F had a good rapport with Randy and he asked Randy, on very short notice, to come up with a design in his spare time for the UC Deck.

We tried to get this deck self-funded on UC at first, but with the USPCC 5000 deck minimum and the upgrades Mike F and Randy wanted (remember, at the time, the UC Deck was the first to have colored foil on the interior of the whole tuck), it just wasn't going to happen so Mike F used Kickstarter to supplement the remaining funding. The $7,000.00 funding goal was that low because of the UC pre-sale.

When I suggested that we make this into an annual deck series, for me it still was for the primary purpose of promoting the site and rewarding members. I'm not saying all the UC Annual Decks be $5.00 or the designers work for free, that would be ridiculous. And I'm not knocking Mike R or Giovanni for the 2015 deck, either. I understand there has to be a profit factor in order to encourage and incentivize great deck designers to become part of the UC Annual Deck series. But the higher pricing with the cheaper printer indicates that Mike R and Giovanni went a different direction for the 2015 deck, and even that is fine, too, because its their prerogative to do so for committing to the 2015 deck.

I'm still going to vigorously support the 2015 Delirium deck, but as other members have already mentioned, I'd like to see the direction of the 2016 deck return to the roots of the UC Annual Deck's purpose by seeing more United Cardists branding on the deck. I'd also like to see an exclusive UC member pre-sale for a limited amount of decks at a bit of a member discount, and then the KS campaign at regular pricing for UC members who want additional deck as well as decks for the general card collecting public.

[rousselle]

+1 Sinjin7.

[Mike Ratledge]

All makes perfect sense, and I agree. I don't set prices, and didn't last year, either. Both Lotrek and Giovanni basically picked up the mantel with little if any warning, and we're working on something that will be an exclusive member benefit. We need the funding for the KS side, too, though.

It's Giovanni's artwork, I never even suggest direction for artists, only commented on Lotrek's Grotesque decks last year. I am not capable of doing design work, as I have pointed out before - and it's a good thing for all (trust me on that!).

The suggestions for next year will be done, but we'll have to take some time and figure it out before as opposed to a retrofit. All great suggestions, and all - as I stated up top - make sense. I wish I had a way back portal - lots of this is news to me (specifics about how it was done the first year, pre-sales, etc).

We have an idea that I think everyone will like. Give us a day or two to work the kinks out.

[RandyButterfield]

When I had discussions with Mike F on the original UC Deck, the primary purpose wasn't to make a profit, but to promote the site and have a unique deck that members could be proud of, and Mike F did put up a lot of his own money to get this created (but he did get all the excess decks for his BMPokerworld site as well). And Randy can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think he was paid a whole lot (if any) for his participation in the first deck. Mike F had a good rapport with Randy and he asked Randy, on very short notice, to come up with a design in his spare time for the UC Deck.

We tried to get this deck self-funded on UC at first, but with the USPCC 5000 deck minimum and the upgrades Mike F and Randy wanted (remember, at the time, the UC Deck was the first to have colored foil on the interior of the whole tuck), it just wasn't going to happen so Mike F used Kickstarter to supplement the remaining funding. The $7,000.00 funding goal was that low because of the UC pre-sale.

When I suggested that we make this into an annual deck series, for me it still was for the primary purpose of promoting the site and rewarding members. I'm not saying all the UC Annual Decks be $5.00 or the designers work for free, that would be ridiculous. And I'm not knocking Mike R or Giovanni for the 2015 deck, either. I understand there has to be a profit factor in order to encourage and incentivize great deck designers to become part of the UC Annual Deck series. But the higher pricing with the cheaper printer indicates that Mike R and Giovanni went a different direction for the 2015 deck, and even that is fine, too, because its their prerogative to do so for committing to the 2015 deck.

I'm still going to vigorously support the 2015 Delirium deck, but as other members have already mentioned, I'd like to see the direction of the 2016 deck return to the roots of the UC Annual Deck's purpose by seeing more United Cardists branding on the deck. I'd also like to see an exclusive UC member pre-sale for a limited amount of decks at a bit of a member discount, and then the KS campaign at regular pricing for UC members who want additional deck as well as decks for the general card collecting public.

Back when we did the original UC Deck, I sent Mike a PM when there were rumblings of the idea to do a Deck. I needed a small break from the insane amount of work I was putting into the Imperial Deck! Plus, I'd had the Matrix-like design for the Back Card and Tuck box in my head for a long time (I like the challenge to create cool designs within a brand's guidelines - I need to do it every day for my day job - Absolut, Malibu, Jameson, Kahlua...). I volunteered to design the UC Deck completely Pro-Bono, as long as it was with re-colored standard Courts. I only had a couple weeks of time to work on it. My only payment was 6 Bricks that Mike sent after they were printed.

I think the original UC Deck had a hard time on Kickstarter because a lot of it's main customer base, UC Members, had already pre-ordered through Mike's site. To the casual Kickstarter Backer, it was just a branded Deck for a website they had never heard of!

If the 2016 UC Deck is more along the lines of the original Deck, I would guess it would have to have some other hook to lure in Backers beyond the UC users. The Grotesque and Delirium Decks definitely go beyond the UC crowd! I think the hard part would be the fine line of not enough / too much UC Branding.

My comments only concern the design aspects. I'm not touching the pricing debate for the UC Decks!

Thanks, Randy

[Thirdway Industries]

Hi guys,

a couple of points about the pricing.

My priorty is being sure to have enough funds to make all my backers more than happy without lose money, and the pricing structure is made keeping this in mind. I know it could had been cheaper, but as my first campaign on Kickstarter I thought it was more wise to charge a couple of dollars more than risk to be unsafe. If this kickstarter will go fine and I'll be more confident about everything, I may decide to go with lower prices - or a "everyone is an early bird" formula.

The "United Cardists" logo on my deck doesn't give me more additional budget or a better quote from the priting / fullfilment company. I have the same conditions of anyone else out there.

The only benefit I may have in putting UC logo on my deck is a little more promotion by United Cardists ...and in theory your support.

I know only few things about past UC decks (the only thing I know is the Grotesque is impressive). From my point of view, Delirium have a crazy design that can be interesting for every collector, and the name of this forum on it can increase the awareness of this community, and maybe expand it.

Hope this helps to understand the choices I make.

Anyways, I was planning from the start some extra benefits for United Cardists members... It's a Delirium Campaign, so they will come unexpected. Stay tuned

[StanKindLee]

... be interesting for every collector

I am looking forward to playing with these. I play with every deck I get (so far)... and have discovered that cool and pretty art does not directly correlate with a playable deck. Delirium looks fun and usable.

[Fes]

I don't see this deck as being all that much more than any other decks on KS lately. Because it is this years UC deck, I don't think comes into play with the pricing. It is a campaign that needs to be funded. We've all seen what happens when decks are priced lower without a whole lot of bells and whistles special editions being tossed around. They struggle to fund if they fund at all, especially by a first time KS campaigner.

I'm not going to complain about the price. (Even though I think international shipping is High.) I think this deck is loaded with glorious spectacle and fun. It's fantastic fun haha. Sure I wish I had gotten an EB brick, I didn't so oh well. That doesn't change much in my opinion. Every time I load up the campaign and have another look at the cards, I smile. They're going to be so much better when they're in my hands. I can hardly wait, Giovanni has done an absolutely wonderful job designing these. He's got my support for sure.

[Thirdway Industries]

... be interesting for every collector

I am looking forward to playing with these. I play with every deck I get (so far)... and have discovered that cool and pretty art does not directly correlate with a playable deck. Delirium looks fun and usable.

I did my best to make them usable, I'm happy you noticed it.
I wanted Delirium really different from Evil and Good Deck (playing with these is a challenge )

[Mike Ratledge]

I think one thing that has a lot of people wondering is the implied 'fact' that it's cheaper to do a deck with Expert/Legends than it is with USPCC. If you don't use the Bicycle logo (upcharge I think is $0.50 to $1 per deck depending on quantity, but I hate to put numbers out because they are out of date the next day), then it's actually about the same any more. It used to be - while they were trying to build the business (and especially if you went "wild to the right" with the tucks) better price-wise, but lately it's much closer. Just as an example, I know that Lotrek is expecting to pay more for Venexiana Dark than he did for Grotesque decks. Again - it remains to be seen, and I don't go posting actual prices because that's really none of my business and certainly not my place to post any other quotes, but - I think now that both are truly putting out much higher quality than they were even a year ago, it's just not what people - including myself - thought it was, at least not as far as being 'cheaper' to use Expert than USPCC. Maybe Lorenzo can make an observation about what Heretic decks cost (without being specific, just percentages) as opposed to what he paid for Requiem decks. Now, of course - every time an artist produces a new deck they "up their game", that's a given.

Of course that opens a whole new "can of worms" for debate, as in what's better and why and who prefers which, etc, but for now - back on topic, I'll open a new "Price wars" ("Cost wars"??) thread and we can get a good discussion going on there instead.

[vasta41]

I think what it comes down to is a balance between an artist making a paycheck (and as well they should) and promotion of UC. The 1st edition was obviously on the promotional side of the scale. This edition is pushing the boundaries of the other side of the scale. Still acceptable IMO but if the UC 2016 deck is inexplicably more expensive, and then I'll think a line has been crossed with regards to the original purpose of this deck.

But as of now, I'm pumped about this deck! And WHEN it funds, I'll be a happy camper

@Mike R.: I always assumed you've been here for a while but I guess I forget just how long..?

[Firthetic]

@Mike R.: I always assumed you've been here for a while but I guess I forget just how long..?

I think the first Ratman sighting was over a year ago, in the sales thread, when he offered to sell a Club 808 uncut sheet for $100.

[Mike Ratledge]

@Mike R.: I always assumed you've been here for a while but I guess I forget just how long..?

I think the first Ratman sighting was over a year ago, in the sales thread, when he offered to sell a Club 808 uncut sheet for $100.

True, it was only worth $80, apparently. It was the one uncut that they stated that they only made 100 copies. Just like a deck of cards, it's always worth precisely what someone will pay for it - no more - no less.

I think I was a lurker for a couple of months before I signed up, so that makes September 2013 about right. Maybe late August, so let's say about 14 months ago, give or take a few weeks. I'm thinking it was early September and I registered in November, or whatever it is it says over there on the left.

<===<<

[Firthetic]

@Mike R.: I always assumed you've been here for a while but I guess I forget just how long..?

I think the first Ratman sighting was over a year ago, in the sales thread, when he offered to sell a Club 808 uncut sheet for $100.

True, it was only worth $80, apparently. It was the one uncut that they stated that they only made 100 copies. Just like a deck of cards, it's always worth precisely what someone will pay for it - no more - no less.

I think I was a lurker for a couple of months before I signed up, so that makes September 2013 about right. Maybe late August, so let's say about 14 months ago, give or take a few weeks. I'm thinking it was early September and I registered in November, or whatever it is it says over there on the left.

<===<<

It's actually the first year anniversary of you officially joining the United Cardists forum (well at least in Singapore time)!

[Bikefanatic]

Got my EB pledge with the use of my cell phone.