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You guys actually think he would drop the price especially based on what he's selling the Fed 52s for? Yeah right.

Especially if you do the math.
*CAUTION* Those are rough estimations based on what the USPCC charges for a 2500 custom deck run!
Look doing those LE Bakerstreet Decks cost him about $6 a deck -
thats $6000 of cost for the LE and $25000 he will gain makes = $19000 in the end.

Now what if you produce 2500 decks at this price. Metallic ink doesnt cost you much more as we all know so lets say $6.10 a deck -
$15250 will be the cost for that run and $62500 what he can make from that. Thats $47250 in the end.
Just from the LE decks.
Yeah Kickstarter Fees ,Amazon Fees and the IRS taxes will be taken from that but just to make clear why this option B comes to the table.

Thats how business is done - making the most of one design.
If you ask me, i would probably go the same route. Milking the cow as long as it gives milk.
Smart move Mr.Robinson!

My guess : The real limited edition (which will digg deeeep into your pockets...like $40-50) will be the Hound of Baskeville Deck

cosmicsecret wrote:Especially if you do the math.
*CAUTION* Those are rough estimations based on what the USPCC charges for a 2500 custom deck run!
Look doing those LE Bakerstreet Decks cost him about $6 a deck -
thats $6000 of cost for the LE and $25000 he will gain makes = $19000 in the end.

Now what if you produce 2500 decks at this price. Metallic ink doesnt cost you much more as we all know so lets say $6.10 a deck -
$15250 will be the cost for that run and $62500 what he can make from that. Thats $47250 in the end.
Just from the LE decks.
Yeah Kickstarter Fees ,Amazon Fees and the IRS taxes will be taken from that but just to make clear why this option B comes to the table.

Thats how business is done - making the most of one design.
If you ask me, i would probably go the same route. Milking the cow as long as it gives milk.
Smart move Mr.Robinson!

My guess : The real limited edition (which will digg deeeep into your pockets...like $40-50) will be the Hound of Baskeville Deck

goshh delete that last line, we all know hes doing so to milk the crap out of the design, but dont give him anymore ideas. I would hate to see option B come to fruitation.

Frankly, I'm getting disillusioned by the whole thing. I tried to look the other way during Fed 52 Part II with the whole $40 LE black tuck thing, but this is getting a bit too obvious and greedy. Kickstarter's supposed to fund projects - you're telling me all that money isn't going to cover the added cost of printing below the 2500-deck minimum? Pfft.

2,500 run after promising a 1,000 run is just wrong.

In case anyone's missed Jackson's recent comments, it looks like he's leaning towards having 2 versions of the Limited Edition run.

@Jim S GREAT IDEA!!! I could make two variations of the Limited edition tuck case and also make new tiers that offer the new limited edition version that represents the added 1500 or so.

NONE OF THE BELOW STATEMENT IS MY DECISION JUST ME THINKING OUTLOAD

Basically we would have two limited edition versions they would both have the same card design but two different tuck.
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 1 qty 1000 (this version will be reserved for all of the backers who initially pledged for the LE deck)
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 2 qty 1500 this version will have a different tuck case and also be limited.

Godzillian wrote:In case anyone's missed on Jackson's recent comments, it looks like he's leaning towards having 2 versions of the Limited Edition run.

@Jim S GREAT IDEA!!! I could make two variations of the Limited edition tuck case and also make new tiers that offer the new limited edition version that represents the added 1500 or so.

NONE OF THE BELOW STATEMENT IS MY DECISION JUST ME THINKING OUTLOAD

Basically we would have two limited edition versions they would both have the same card design but two different tuck.
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 1 qty 1000 (this version will be reserved for all of the backers who initially pledged for the LE deck)
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 2 qty 1500 this version will have a different tuck case and also be limited.

Why? What would adding another tuck-only LE accomplish (other than make him more money)?

MagikFingerz wrote:

Godzillian wrote:In case anyone's missed on Jackson's recent comments, it looks like he's leaning towards having 2 versions of the Limited Edition run.

@Jim S GREAT IDEA!!! I could make two variations of the Limited edition tuck case and also make new tiers that offer the new limited edition version that represents the added 1500 or so.

NONE OF THE BELOW STATEMENT IS MY DECISION JUST ME THINKING OUTLOAD

Basically we would have two limited edition versions they would both have the same card design but two different tuck.
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 1 qty 1000 (this version will be reserved for all of the backers who initially pledged for the LE deck)
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 2 qty 1500 this version will have a different tuck case and also be limited.

Why? What would adding another tuck-only LE accomplish (other than make him more money)?

I assume that this would NOT be a "tuck-only" situation...
No reason to bump the production up to 2500 unless he is printing a new deck design.

EDIT: Although, we would then have a unique "LE version" of the cards, now with two different varieties of tuck. So these two LE tucks themselves would be "tuck-only" changes...

MagikFingerz wrote:

Godzillian wrote:In case anyone's missed on Jackson's recent comments, it looks like he's leaning towards having 2 versions of the Limited Edition run.

@Jim S GREAT IDEA!!! I could make two variations of the Limited edition tuck case and also make new tiers that offer the new limited edition version that represents the added 1500 or so.

NONE OF THE BELOW STATEMENT IS MY DECISION JUST ME THINKING OUTLOAD

Basically we would have two limited edition versions they would both have the same card design but two different tuck.
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 1 qty 1000 (this version will be reserved for all of the backers who initially pledged for the LE deck)
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 2 qty 1500 this version will have a different tuck case and also be limited.

Why? What would adding another tuck-only LE accomplish (other than make him more money)?

Well, increase your regular Baker Street run over 1500 decks which gives you for sure a discount on the entire run and use this discount + some more money to buy 1500 different tucks.
You save a new print run and charge $25 per deck! Brilliant!

DukeBoy wrote:

Gareth wrote: I'm sure that most of the non-LE backers will vote 'B' (no reason not to), as well as a reasonable percentage of backers with LE deck tiers (who want the different back). Approximately half of the current backers are in LE tiers at the moment (579 out of 1109 backers), so I'm assuming 'B' will win.

I have not backed LE so will not vote

Same here... I stated my opinions in the thread (I like the new back design, and I'd buy it at $12, but not $25), but I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not getting an LE deck now, or even later if the price is $25, so it's not my place to decide the issue.

th4mo wrote:

MagikFingerz wrote:

Godzillian wrote:In case anyone's missed on Jackson's recent comments, it looks like he's leaning towards having 2 versions of the Limited Edition run.

@Jim S GREAT IDEA!!! I could make two variations of the Limited edition tuck case and also make new tiers that offer the new limited edition version that represents the added 1500 or so.

NONE OF THE BELOW STATEMENT IS MY DECISION JUST ME THINKING OUTLOAD

Basically we would have two limited edition versions they would both have the same card design but two different tuck.
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 1 qty 1000 (this version will be reserved for all of the backers who initially pledged for the LE deck)
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 2 qty 1500 this version will have a different tuck case and also be limited.

Why? What would adding another tuck-only LE accomplish (other than make him more money)?

I assume that this would NOT be a "tuck-only" situation...
No reason to bump the production up to 2500 unless he is printing a new deck design.

EDIT: Although, we would then have a unique "LE version" of the cards, now with two different varieties of tuck. So these two LE tucks themselves would be "tuck-only" changes...

I'm still a little bitter from when he posted his decks on his site for 50$. Now more and more I see his greed for more money. It's no longer about the love I feel, I may be wrong, shit I hope I'm wrong.

I know it's a business but it's getting a little ridiculous now. People are using kickstarter as a preorder storefront. I guess I don't mind because I'm getting all sorts of cool decks out of it. *end rant

sqratch wrote:People are using kickstarter as a preorder storefront.

I said this about a year ago. But yeah

I sincerely hope this is Jackson's last kickstarter, I highly doubt he needs the extra exposure at this point.

NONE OF THE BELOW STATEMENT IS MY DECISION JUST ME THINKING OUTLOAD

Basically we would have two limited edition versions they would both have the same card design but two different tuck.
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 1 qty 1000 (this version will be reserved for all of the backers who initially pledged for the LE deck)
Limited Edition Baker Street Version 2 qty 1500 this version will have a different tuck case and also be limited.

I assume that this would NOT be a "tuck-only" situation...
No reason to bump the production up to 2500 unless he is printing a new deck design.

EDIT: Although, we would then have a unique "LE version" of the cards, now with two different varieties of tuck. So these two LE tucks themselves would be "tuck-only" changes...

I'm still a little bitter from when he posted his decks on his site for 50$. Now more and more I see his greed for more money. It's no longer about the love I feel, I may be wrong, shit I hope I'm wrong.

I know it's a business but it's getting a little ridiculous now. People are using kickstarter as a preorder storefront. I guess I don't mind because I'm getting all sorts of cool decks out of it. *end rant

It has been that way for quite a while now. More and more people are creating decks for fast money and will it dies down, they will move on to something else. Jackson is in it for the long haul, but he is no different than any other businessman. If things slow down, you have to find another way to make money or you will starve!!!

Thanks!

P.S.: Except for walrus. he has enough body fat to live a decade without eating!!!!

sqratch wrote:
I'm still a little bitter from when he posted his decks on his site for 50$. Now more and more I see his greed for more money. It's no longer about the love I feel, I may be wrong, shit I hope I'm wrong.

I know it's a business but it's getting a little ridiculous now. People are using kickstarter as a preorder storefront. I guess I don't mind because I'm getting all sorts of cool decks out of it. *end rant

I kinda started getting that feeling with all the different options that started being released with Fed 52 part 2, and unfortunately they were sealed when I saw that he priced the left over decks of part 1 at $50 a deck. I mean, I understand he's an artist with a ton of ideas in his head and wants to get them all out on paper, but dial it back. KISS. And don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist at heart and Jackson is an exceptional artist and should be compensated for his work, but this practice of multiple decks with minimal changes just reeks of something D$D would do. And while I believe in a free market system, there's also a thing called "business ethics" that, unfortunately, most people don't practice.

Now, he's talking about wanting to print an additional 1500 decks or make another "limited edition" deck that he would charge $$ for all the while giving two fingers up to the people that have bought in at higher levels. Even a second, "limited edition" deck would turn me off of this. I payed the extra money for what was to be a limited edition of 1000 decks, so I want a LIMITED deck. As in, not available to everyone that wants one. Am I wrong, or isn't that what LIMITED means? For Fed 52 Pt 2 I made sure I was available when they went live because I wanted them. In this case I stayed up late to make sure I could get some LE decks during the second release. I'm sorry, but if people weren't able to make the cut then too bad. Jackson should save some face and quit this talk about making additional decks and just stick with the originally planned 1000 items. Or, redesign the deck and just double everyone's order w/o charging more money. I.E. people that elected 2 LE decks would now get 4.

It will also be interesting to see how he handles the Hound deck. Will they be priced in line with the regular decks since he's splicing the artwork from the others into one deck or will they be priced higher?

/rant

I vote for keep limited limited but with all the new art and not just a tuck change. No more new decks. Just make the existing ones awesomer.

I've gone on this rant many times before so I'll keep it short: stretch goals are meant to improve our pledges, not open up additional options to spend more money.

Upgrade stock and finish
Metallic ink
Embossed tuck
Foil stamp
Custom seal
Titanium tuck with diamond pips
Have each deck delivered to your doorstep by Jackson Robinson riding a grizzly bear riding a badger riding a bison.

Standard stuff really.

okay so let me get this straight:
LE box with UL cards = Great Idea worth $25
but
LE box with LE cards = bad idea not worth $25 anymore

Duke because there would be 2 times and a half more of the limited card decks than the limited tuck deck

badpete69 wrote:Duke because there would be 2 times and a half more of the limited card decks than the limited tuck deck

A 1/1000 box with 1/10,000+ cards inside is a great idea even though the other 9,000+ boxes have the same cards and is worth $25, but
A 1/1000 deck with 1/2500 cards even though the another 1500 boxes exist,
it is still the same concept you are paying for the limited box in the 1st example only that is it, in the 2nd example you are paying for a limited box and a limited run.

badpete69 wrote:Duke because there would be 2 times and a half more of the limited card decks than the limited tuck deck

Exactly! They were pledged as a quantity of 1,000. If you like your deck you can keep it. Period.

Thing is the tuck change is a very cheap and easy way to make a profit. I think RJ from Civil Unrest explained that changing a tuck only costs like a buck or so. It's not treated as a separate run. So really what he's doing is charging double for a slice of Baker Street deck that just got a tuck change. I don't like that whole business strategy. The tuck changed limited edition deck was a bad idea to begin with. It should have been fully custom from the get go. If its 2,500 that's fine. It will ONLY be 2,500. EVER. Whereas the others are unlimited.

All this back and forth boils down to money. Jackson won't go full custom because that's less profit for him. All LEs are accounted for so that well is dry. We paid our $25. Making modifications means he has to pay. People that don't want the LE to go up to 2500 won't sell it as high on eBay (because honestly I find It hard to believe that the complaint is about not being as special and not because of money) It's a shame really. Because a lot buy Jackson's decks because they're lucrative instead of their beauty. Then we call him greedy when he pumps out all these variations when what most will do is just turn around and sell them for more.

We've set that beast loose and now we can't handle it.

It's a shit ton of money that's going out. I just want my money's worth as a collector. Not a reseller.

chach wrote:I payed the extra money for what was to be a limited edition of 1000 decks, so I want a LIMITED deck. As in, not available to everyone that wants one. Am I wrong, or isn't that what LIMITED means? For Fed 52 Pt 2 I made sure I was available when they went live because I wanted them. In this case I stayed up late to make sure I could get some LE decks during the second release. I'm sorry, but if people weren't able to make the cut then too bad. Jackson should save some face and quit this talk about making additional decks and just stick with the originally planned 1000 items.

/rant

No, you're not wrong, Chach. I did the same as you. Stayed up late to jump in on the LE deck under the assumption there would be only 1,000. It is a bait and switch to up the quantity to 2,500. In my opinion it dilutes the value by 1 1/2 times.

Decision has been made The deck will remain at 1000 print same cards

Option A won after all. That was a close battle. Welp, looks like I'll be selling those, I don't want a tuck changed Baker Street.

So why pledge for them if you do not want them??

badpete69 wrote:So why pledge for them if you do not want them??

To sell on eBay more than likely.

badpete69 wrote:So why pledge for them if you do not want them??

Coz I had hopes it would end up being something spectacular like the Fed 52 limited. Not just a different jacket. The hope was not too far fetched considering how equally divided the discussion was.

All I see now is a quick buck for JR and for me. Simple jacket change for a premium price is something I feel very strongly about, (sorry Jack.)

@sqratch: yeah pretty much that's what I'll do now. A few pages back I explicitly said that. I would squat on the LE in hope for a full custom; otherwise I'd sell.

What I wanna know is how many, in all honesty are keeping it because its "special" and not coz it'll make them a pretty penny.

Well, I pledged for 2 of the LE's, one because it's special and will go in one of my display cases. The other will either be tucked away for a while, put up on Ebay to help offset some of the costs of the pledge or offered in trade.

Eoghann wrote:
What I wanna know is how many, in all honesty are keeping it because its "special" and not coz it'll make them a pretty penny.

I grabbed a tier that has 2 LE decks and most likely will keep one unopened and sell the other eventually (and yes I did stay up late and refresh my screen like crazy to grab it lol). Although, I am pretty sure some people are backing strictly for the resale value, especially in the higher/brick tiers. I prefer these decks to the Fed 52 decks honestly. I like the F52 series, but I don't love it. I don't know that I love this series either, but I definitely like the subject matter better.

I like to think that Jackson is offering all these different choices to try to please his fans, but some part of me believes it's just a money thing, especially after seeing the hefty price tag he placed on his remaining stock of Fed 52s. I definitely don't begrudge him making money off his hard work, but I do think most people saw that as nothing more than being greedy. Yes, they were going for similar prices on eBay, but imo that was gouging due to Jackson not having released the remainder yet. I think he could have priced them around $20-30 a deck and kept a lot more of his customers happy. Honestly the first thing I thought of was the few remaining first run Deco sets that Encarded sold for $60 a PAIR. And those decks are much more of a rarity in comparison.

One other thing that bothers me is the unbranded decks having the same price as the Bicycle decks. To my understanding the price to produce the deck goes up when you want to add the Bicycle name, and Jackson's first Fed 52 project had priced the unbranded decks lower than the branded. Fed 52 Pt. 2 switched that and had them all priced the same (except LE decks of course) as has the current Sherlock project. I have never produced a deck though, so someone who has, please correct me if I'm wrong.

On another note, I'd hate to be Jackson right now. Between the people pissed about the high prices for the remaining Fed 52s and the people upset about the LE issues, I'm sure he's got his share of headaches. :\

charlie

MagikFingerz wrote:

sqratch wrote:People are using kickstarter as a preorder storefront.

I said this about a year ago. But yeah

I sincerely hope this is Jackson's last kickstarter, I highly doubt he needs the extra exposure at this point.

I think Kickstarter is an awesome business model. It removes a lot of risk on the creators side.

The business model of going into debt or laying down large amounts of money to sit on an inventory that you hope you can sell for profit has a lot of risk involved. But Kickstarter allows you to see if your product or project is viable before you have to spend a ton of money.

slykly1 wrote:
I think Kickstarter is an awesome business model. It removes a lot of risk on the creators side.

The business model of going into debt or laying down large amounts of money to sit on an inventory that you hope you can sell for profit has a lot of risk involved. But Kickstarter allows you to see if your product or project is viable before you have to spend a ton of money.

It has it good and bad sides. Having spent a career in the creative side of marketing there is nothing I enjoy more than seeing all the creative decks coming out of KS.

On the flip side, having been around creative types all my business life I can tell you that 99 out of 100 aren't numbers people. The business end of business is not their métier. This is why many of these projects go tits up.