UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 12:45 pm**

Still on the fence myself - like Harvonsgard, waiting to see if the coin throws me over the line - though I am also in the hard sell category like Bradius on the pricey sets now adays, so it will need to be a stunner

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 12:51 pm**

The preorder for these is now live.

https://www.thegentlemanwake.com/shop/p ... series-001

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:02 pm**

I am really torn about these. To be honest, I disagree with the statement,

"Designed to mirror the cost and exceed the value of a monthly $33 premium playing cards subscription without actually being a subscription"

I subscribe to KWP, Oath, TWI, S17, and Jocu and I feel the value is better with all of them.

I do think they look absolutely fantastic, truly an amazing design, but I collect decks of cards not coins and walnut carat cases. Effectively, I am paying $50 for a deck of cards. Maybe, $50 for this high quality deck is worth it, I just don't know. All of my current subscriptions I can get just decks of cards and not have to pay for the extras. I know I am probably in the minority as it seems to work for him. I really wish the movement to have to pay for non-deck items to obtain decks would subside. Or at least make all the decks available without having to pay for non-deck items. I know this was discussed ad nauseam with Successor and the Prism deck being protected by the sarcophagus.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:08 pm**

For anyone interested, The Card Guy has just published a review. Gives some great insight into the work behind the deck and the story told within.

https://youtu.be/dIQD7XOicNc

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:10 pm**

brownsl wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 1:02 pm I am really torn about these. To be honest, I disagree with the statement,

"Designed to mirror the cost and exceed the value of a monthly $33 premium playing cards subscription without actually being a subscription"

I subscribe to KWP, Oath, TWI, S17, and Jocu and I feel the value is better with all of them.

I do think they look absolutely fantastic, truly an amazing design, but I collect decks of cards not coins and walnut carat cases. Effectively, I am paying $50 for a deck of cards. Maybe, $50 for this high quality deck is worth it, I just don't know. All of my current subscriptions I can get just decks of cards and not have to pay for the extras. I know I am probably in the minority as it seems to work for him. I really wish the movement to have to pay for non-deck items to obtain decks would subside. Or at least make all the decks available without having to pay for non-deck items. I know this was discussed ad nauseam with Successor and the Prism deck being protected by the sarcophagus.

The value is better with KWP and Jocu, but about even with TWI and you definitely get more for your money than Oath or S17 (IMO). With TWI you pay $30 per month and get a quarterly shipment that is usually, thought not always, 1 gilded deck and 1 standard, often with some to most being extra editions of previous decks (plus an annual reward of 1 to 2 decks). With this series, you get two gilded decks, with a wood case and a coin quarterly for that same price seems about the same overall to me.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:21 pm**

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 1:10 pm
brownsl wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 1:02 pm I am really torn about these. To be honest, I disagree with the statement,

"Designed to mirror the cost and exceed the value of a monthly $33 premium playing cards subscription without actually being a subscription"

I subscribe to KWP, Oath, TWI, S17, and Jocu and I feel the value is better with all of them.

I do think they look absolutely fantastic, truly an amazing design, but I collect decks of cards not coins and walnut carat cases. Effectively, I am paying $50 for a deck of cards. Maybe, $50 for this high quality deck is worth it, I just don't know. All of my current subscriptions I can get just decks of cards and not have to pay for the extras. I know I am probably in the minority as it seems to work for him. I really wish the movement to have to pay for non-deck items to obtain decks would subside. Or at least make all the decks available without having to pay for non-deck items. I know this was discussed ad nauseam with Successor and the Prism deck being protected by the sarcophagus.
The value is better with KWP and Jocu, but about even with TWI and you definitely get more for your money than Oath or S17 (IMO). With TWI you pay $30 per month and get a quarterly shipment that is usually, thought not always, 1 gilded deck and 1 standard, often with some to most being extra editions of previous decks (plus an annual reward of 1 to 2 decks). With this series, you get two gilded decks, with a wood case and a coin quarterly for that same price seems about the same overall to me.

Maybe that is correct and I should think more about what I am getting for what I pay. I guess with the monthly subscription model, it is easy to not think about value.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:35 pm**

At least 3 of my Patreon accounts are just to support the artists at this point - sometimes what you pay for is what you are giving, sometimes its what you’re getting, sometimes it’s both…

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:50 pm**

I'm a little surprised these haven't sold out yet, given that the TGW Kickstarter campaigns do so well.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:55 pm**

Looks like there are 849 left. I'm guessing the fact that these aren't on kickstarter is adding some friction.

I'm in for a set. Don't really care too much about the box and the coin, but they will be nice to display.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 1:57 pm**

Just for comparison on a couple of the other subscriptions....

TWI was 11 decks and I believe a pin (plus site discounts, early access) for $360
S17 was 7 decks (one with a metal plate), 2 uncut tucks, 1 unfolded HBB, carat case display (plus site discounts, early access) for $400
Someone will have to help me on Jocu and Oath (putting aside the delays on the latter of course)...

CAP is 8 decks, 4 cases, 4 coins for ~$400

Value does indeed seem comparable. It's really a matter of taste on which float your boat. I don't think an objective measure of value will really hit it.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 2:03 pm**

KingfisherZero wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 1:57 pm Just for comparison on a couple of the other subscriptions....

TWI was 11 decks and I believe a pin (plus site discounts, early access) for $360
S17 was 7 decks (one with a metal plate), 2 uncut tucks, 1 unfolded HBB, carat case display (plus site discounts, early access) for $400
Someone will have to help me on Jocu and Oath (putting aside the delays on the latter of course)...

CAP is 8 decks, 4 cases, 4 coins for ~$400

Value does indeed seem comparable. It's really a matter of taste on which float your boat. I don't think an objective measure of value will really hit it.

The sets are $94.99 for the next week. Then prices go up to $99.99. That's a $20 discount over the life of the series. $380. And we are planning on some special gifts for customers of all 4 series per year.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 2:11 pm**

manu wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 1:55 pm Looks like there are 849 left. I'm guessing the fact that these aren't on kickstarter is adding some friction.

I'm in for a set. Don't really care too much about the box and the coin, but they will be nice to display.

Oh there's no doubt, it's always a challenge to try to move off of kickstarter. I'm hopeful that people will find our product. I'm hopeful that people will see the quality and effort we put into the Successor and understand that this is the next step on that evolution. I hope people will look at it as supporting a brand that they hope will be around for a foreseeable future.

I think the notion of 'value' is a tricky one the way that GandalfPC presents it. I certainly think that by choosing to support Kevin and I on this project people shouldn't only be looking at it as just a money-making venture for us. I hope people would be willing to help us grow and expand what we can do in the hopes that both TGW and CAP can stay around and continue to offer good products! So yeah, we can't offer the value a Theory 11 can, but maybe one day.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 2:12 pm**

personally I don’t see the value for $95 plus shipping

2 gilded decks a plastic case n coin

whata the actual cost to put these together $32
case being $8

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 2:14 pm**

double_left wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:12 pm personally I don’t see the value for $95 plus shipping

2 gilded decks a plastic case n coin

whata the actual cost to put these together $32
case being $8

This doesn't seem like a fair take. What about the time that TGW and Kevin put in? That has to count for something. Looks like you are only talking about manufacturing costs and I am not even sure how accurate those are.

Value is subjective to each person but saying based on manufacturing alone doesn't seem like a fair point to me.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 2:16 pm**

double_left wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:12 pm personally I don’t see the value for $95 plus shipping

2 gilded decks a plastic case n coin

whata the actual cost to put these together $32
case being $8

And you are entitled to that belief. BUT I think you mistake production cost for true costs. What did it cost in time and energy for Kevin to design the cards? How much is his experience in design worth? You think that was free? What about my time in cultivating relationships, building a brand, creating an audience and follower base, running budgets, establishing production partners and building and running a website? Fulfillment and logistics and overseeing all of it--what about that? Surely you MUST understand that the value of a product is NOT only the cost of the materials involved right?

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 2:26 pm**

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:03 pm The sets are $94.99 for the next week.

Thanks for this!

I'm planning on ordering on Friday

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 3:16 pm**

Regardless of value, I like to collect playing cards and (usually) only playing cards. I don't like when you're forced to buy extras just to get the decks.

Having said that, I couldn't pass these decks up.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 4:57 pm**

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:16 pm And you are entitled to that belief. BUT I think you mistake production cost for true costs. What did it cost in time and energy for Kevin to design the cards? How much is his experience in design worth? You think that was free? What about my time in cultivating relationships, building a brand, creating an audience and follower base, running budgets, establishing production partners and building and running a website? Fulfillment and logistics and overseeing all of it--what about that? Surely you MUST understand that the value of a product is NOT only the cost of the materials involved right?

101% true!

BTW, why there seems to be a lack of complaints regarding the 500% profit margin that T11, with their decks priced at $13, enjoys in comparison to the actual production cost?
The Goldsmith decks are more affordable compared to other decks if we talk about production cost only (I know this for sure). However, when you take into account all the other factors involved, it becomes evident that production is just one small aspect of a much larger process. Developing a product involves a multitude of complexities and considerations that extend far beyond the manufacturing stage.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 5:39 pm**

I bought one set because you can't go wrong with the quality and craftsmanship of The Gentleman Wake and Kevin Cantrell. The recently released Successor decks are proof of that. My deck collecting habits are simple, mostly just decks because I can easily store them in my card totes. And while I don't collect wooden boxes and coins either, this set is a must have, and it's the only way to get these decks. I drool when I see photos of the beautiful Successor Sarcophogus, but items like that are a bit extravagant for my tastes. Maybe some collectors here on the fence can order a set with another collector? That way both parties get one of the decks, which are equally as nice, and the person who is more passionate about the extras can get the box and the coin.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 5:53 pm**

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:11 pm So yeah, we can't offer the value a Theory 11 can, but maybe one day.

I think you meant to say prices because TXI offers shit value.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 6:02 pm**

Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:53 pm
TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:11 pm So yeah, we can't offer the value a Theory 11 can, but maybe one day.
I think you meant to say prices because TXI offers shit value.

Indeed

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 6:08 pm**

montenzi wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 4:57 pm why there seems to be a lack of complaints regarding the 500% profit margin that T11, with their decks priced at $13, enjoys in comparison to the actual production cost?

Because far more people have $13 to spend on playing cards as opposed to $100, regardless of profit margin or value.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 6:37 pm**

I’m currently in the process of purging a lot of my decks, down to only a few select creators. But I’m not planning on getting rid of any TGW decks anytime soon, and I plan on getting all of your future decks! You definitely make the list for deck producers I follow and love everything you come out with. I’m in for 2 sets.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 7:07 pm**

Sir Toddalot wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 6:37 pm I’m currently in the process of purging a lot of my decks, down to only a few select creators. But I’m not planning on getting rid of any TGW decks anytime soon, and I plan on getting all of your future decks! You definitely make the list for deck producers I follow and love everything you come out with. I’m in for 2 sets.

I’ve said it a bunch and will continue to say it: “inspiring customer loyalty through outstanding product design, quality and service” is my mantra. Thank you for your support!

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 7:18 pm**

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:11 pm I certainly think that by choosing to support Kevin and I on this project people shouldn't only be looking at it as just a money-making venture for us. I hope people would be willing to help us grow and expand what we can do in the hopes that both TGW and CAP can stay around and continue to offer good products!

That's definitely part of the value for me. And to echo what others are saying, your past work assures me that this series won't disappoint.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 7:20 pm**

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 6:02 pm
Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:53 pm
TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:11 pm So yeah, we can't offer the value a Theory 11 can, but maybe one day.
I think you meant to say prices because TXI offers shit value.
Indeed

I’m sorry Harvonsgard and Omar but I can’t disagree more with this. I like you both but this seems so untrue.

I know this isn’t a T11 thread and I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole but you can’t tell me their decks don’t offer good value for the price compared to other creators. Regardless of whether or not you enjoy the designs or cards it’s hard to say the value is missing considering the quality of the tucks and the licensing that goes with it.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 9:22 pm**

My comment isn’t directed at the art (many of the artists working for T11 have been partners of mine on existing and up coming projects). However I do feel that T11s value has always cut a few corners. The single color back designs. The two foils on the tucks. They aren’t spending every production dollar. The licenses are costly to be sure.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 9:39 pm**

TheGentlemanWake wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:22 pm My comment isn’t directed at the art (many of the artists working for T11 have been partners of mine on existing and up coming projects). However I do feel that T11s value has always cut a few corners. The single color back designs. The two foils on the tucks. They aren’t spending every production dollar. The licenses are costly to be sure.

That’s fair. T11 is a company who mass produces decks and doesn’t really involve the community. They appeal to the masses.
That being said, some of the pop culture licenses along with nice tucks are easily good value T $13-$20. That’s all I’m saying. If you want a premium card package we have people like yourself or others.

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 11:08 pm**

The decks look too good to pass, so I took an L with the $27,00 shipping and eventually VAT when the parcel arrives. So the decks better be even more spectacular in reality!

Posted: **Tue May 23, 2023 11:21 pm**

KingfisherZero wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 1:57 pm Someone will have to help me on Jocu and Oath (putting aside the delays on the latter of course)...

For Jocu... hmm let's see

I am in Heroes tier for EUR 15
A year would be: EUR 180 [approx. $195] - Although first time getting in, you have to pay EUR 45, so that makes EUR 225 [approx. $242]
I got in on Q4 2021, starting with CULT Fire, so the total decks (not counted with the decks you got outside of the subs package) up to now are 13 decks [6 already retrieved, 7 is on the way]

Higher tiers will results in more money to pool in, yet will be more rewards than what I have now

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The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori 001) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW

Re: The Goldsmith by Kevin Cantrell (Cantrell A Priori) with TGW