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PrincessTrouble wrote:I saw this comment posted on the Kickstarter campaign today:

"Wow, the cards are beautiful! Looks like the replacement Ace of Hearts has a slightly lighter toned back printing, kinda helps the pattern stand out more."

I'm afraid this isn't going to turn out well. The purpose of reprinting the Ace was to make this a playable deck, but if the back color of the reprinted Ace doesn't match the backs of the rest of the deck because they're darker, then it's still going to be unplayable.

sinjin7 wrote:

PrincessTrouble wrote:I saw this comment posted on the Kickstarter campaign today:

"Wow, the cards are beautiful! Looks like the replacement Ace of Hearts has a slightly lighter toned back printing, kinda helps the pattern stand out more."

I'm afraid this isn't going to turn out well. The purpose of reprinting the Ace was to make this a playable deck, but if the back color of the reprinted Ace doesn't match the backs of the rest of the deck because they're darker, then it's still going to be unplayable.

I saw that comment on the KS and thought they were crazy. I'll take a picture, when I get home tonight, and show the back of the replacement card and one card from the deck. They looked the same to me, both too dark to see the details well.

Edit:

Here are the Corrected AoH and the original AoH with the diamond pips (back and front). I realize the lighting is not great but, as you can see, even with a light source the back is still dark. I can't really tell the difference between the two backs, so I'm not sure where the KS comment is coming from.

Wow, I've said it before and I'll say it again- those borders are HUGE! And I'm usually the one telling Tom, "who cares about thin borders?" but this is nuts.

I kinda like the thick borders myself, breaks up the blue monotony. If the design popped more then I'd prefer thinner borders but like how it is now.

One more SNAFU for this project, no uncut sheets apparently. Beginning to lose confidence in KWP, as I can't think of any other major designer that has had so many mistakes across their projects that keep happening, printing errors or things falling through the cracks.

Two projects in a row now that they haven't had uncuts pulled requiring refunds to be issued. Yeah USPCC may not have pulled the uncuts, but as the saying goes, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.' as stated by another Texan at least.

vasta41 wrote:Wow, I've said it before and I'll say it again- those borders are HUGE! And I'm usually the one telling Tom, "who cares about thin borders?" but this is nuts.

Everything's bigger in Texas!

chach wrote:One more SNAFU for this project, no uncut sheets apparently. Beginning to lose confidence in KWP, as I can't think of any other major designer that has had so many mistakes across their projects that keep happening, printing errors or things falling through the cracks.

Two projects in a row now that they haven't had uncuts pulled requiring refunds to be issued. Yeah USPCC may not have pulled the uncuts, but as the saying goes, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.' as stated by another Texan at least.

I think it's 3 now.

Unfortunately we’ve had another few bumps in the road with the last projects. Neither USPCC nor EPCC could deliver uncut sheets for the Texas project or the Crazy 8’s project, and as I see that you backed both of them we will refund you

At least you're getting refunded for the uncuts, could be worse. I have yet to see anything that makes me think less of KW as a brand or Jackson as a creator, he doesn't get to choose whether the printers renege on part of the project or not, and he puts out a lot of decks for one guy, there has to be a margin for error or your expectations are unrealistic.

At least the dark backs goes well with the tuck.

RichK wrote:

shermjack wrote: Maybe Jackson will stick the extra card into the Legacy case so it is sealed together with the deck as opposed to being separate.

Who's going to open it to check?

Since I've got two Legacy decks heading my way, I'd have no issue in the being the one to check.

But as I've said in my earlier post, these color changes to the back are less than ideal. I'll reserve my full judgment until I have them in my hands though.

Does anyone know if Jackson commented or explained why the backs came out so dark, or about the wide borders? At least the replacement card matches the rest of the deck (contrary to what some people have claimed) so its a useable deck.

sinjin7 wrote:Does anyone know if Jackson commented or explained why the backs came out so dark, or about the wide borders? At least the replacement card matches the rest of the deck (contrary to what some people have claimed) so its a useable deck.

It's weird because usually Marcus or JR himself would have explained this by now. Maybe they're still trying to think of an answer?

Does anyone else not have these yet? I thought mine would be here by now but not yet...

vasta41 wrote:Does anyone else not have these yet? I thought mine would be here by now but not yet...

You're not the only one. I don't have mine yet either.

nECr0MaNCeD wrote:

vasta41 wrote:Does anyone else not have these yet? I thought mine would be here by now but not yet...

You're not the only one. I don't have mine yet either.

I'm still waiting on mine as well, though I figured the holdup was the gilded decks.

I'm wondering if this was a combination of Jackson's confidence in the printer, with his experience, just assuming he had a handle on how the colors would come out, and the printer not printing the correct values that were submitted, Jackson never checked because he has done so many projects he expected the colors would be correct, and the two together got us here?

PrincessTrouble wrote:

nECr0MaNCeD wrote:

vasta41 wrote:Does anyone else not have these yet? I thought mine would be here by now but not yet...

You're not the only one. I don't have mine yet either.

I'm still waiting on mine as well, though I figured the holdup was the gilded decks.

I didn't order gilded (that I recall), and I haven't received mine yet, either. I'm under the impression that shipping is still "in progress," because nobody from Team Jackson has posted that shipping is completed.

Justin O. wrote:I'm wondering if this was a combination of Jackson's confidence in the printer, with his experience, just assuming he had a handle on how the colors would come out, and the printer not printing the correct values that were submitted, Jackson never checked because he has done so many projects he expected the colors would be correct, and the two together got us here?

Quite possibly. However, with multiple experiences of decks having misprints, Jackson really should require a preview sample deck and go over it with a fine-toothed comb, and also get multiple other sets of eyes to look at it and see if they can find anything wrong. Sometimes an artist can't spot their own mistakes. But I can't imagine he even glanced at a preview of that back and said "Yep, looks great to me, run the printers!" It is WAY too dark, it totally obscures the design, and it looks nothing at all like the pictures in the campaign.

If a writer ever became so confident in his work that he says "I couldn't possibly have misspelled a word or made a grammar mistake, no need for an editor to look it over, just print my first draft, I'm sure it'll be fine!", people would tell him he is being foolish, and it almost certainly is NOT as perfect as he thinks it is. Well, the same thing goes for an artist. Jackson, you have done some very nice design work, but your quality control is really lacking and needs to be fixed if you want future pledges.

Some how it seems, to me, that Mr. Robinson's ego finally overrun himself... So much for the best track record for deliver on time, for deliver what was promised... Once he became more distant from this forum (or backers) his projects went downhill...

There are not much excuses for the blue being so dark obsucuring the back design, for that huuuuge borders and for the mistake with the ace of hearts, clearly no one looked at the physical proofs, because if they did these errors would have been spotted... I miss the good old days of the Federal 52 series...

I'm facing his new projects very carefully now, not sure what may go wrong for now on, maybe he shows one deck and prints one entirely different...
Good luck for the next projects, and hope you manage them better....

Hey guys

Sorry for the radio silence, there are a lot of things going on all at once right now and we are trying to just keep up with it all.
There are a lot of factors that lead to the color difference and the borders. With the color, I turned down the contrast of the two blue shades a bit as the initial design had a bit too much contrast. That would’ve worked well, but unfortunately USPCC did not color match the design file with the printing press so the decks came out darker which gives an appearance of even less contrast. In hindsight we could perhaps have pushed even harder on having them reprint the decks, but as the result was still a nice deck of cards and to avoid more delays we approved it.

The border is admittedly thicker than the mockup pictures are. With some of the decks being gilded, USPCC forces you to shrink your art, as a safety measure. They do this because the gilding will not adhere to printed Ink. Unfortunately because of mine and others artists road bumps with gilding USPCC no longer offers as an option for the custom division. My and Alex's deck were some of the last gilded decks they were going to produce. That is why the border is closer to regular USPCC decks than the mockup images show.

I also heard some have been wondering about the uncut sheets and to be clear, those were ordered but could not be delivered as they were never taken off of the press. (And to add to all the problems no sheets were lifted for neither the Wasteland nor the Crazy 8’s project by the Taiwan printer.) It’s unfortunate for everyone involved, but nothing that can be done due to clauses in the contracts.
To address these things going forward, we will be doing our best to make sure mockup images represent the printed designs as close as possible, and also to update if changes are made along the way.

Well I have no idea how you might feel about your Wasteland uncuts, but were you as pissed off as me about losing all your Crazy 8 sheets ?
Especially those Limiteds, sheesh ....
What were they thinking fercrisakes ?

So it's all USPCC's fault?

JacksonRobinson wrote:In hindsight we could perhaps have pushed even harder on having them reprint the decks, but as the result was still a nice deck of cards and to avoid more delays we approved it.

Not exactly what Lotrek's mindset is but then again his ICONS project has been over 2 years in the making and over 1 year past due. Which presents quite the conundrum- is it better to delay and get it perfect or accept less than perfect to avoid delays? Which presents even more conundrums- how imperfect is the deck really? Would fixing the imperfection merit the extended delay? Is it worth asking the backers how they feel, keeping in mind that tallying votes would take even more time and delay the process even further? Lots of tough questions here...

My two cents- whether you want the opinion of your backers or not, keeping them in the loop is best practice IMO. Example- Mana says nothing and everyone wants his head. Lotrek explains his problems every step of the way and all he seems to get is praise and understanding. I've said it a few times in the thread and I'll say it again- even though Jackson didn't really fall on the sword I'm not as upset as everyone else here and given the choice I would have said, "eh, screw it- not big enough of a deal to delay this anymore." I know that's an unpopular opinion here but either way I maintain that it would have been nice to at least be aware of the "defect" before receiving it. While this probably wasn't the intent the "pulling the wool over our eyes" feeling isn't a good one.

Expert for those 2 sheet runs ....

I would have preferred to wait for a reprinted deck, but understand the choice that was made. Still disappointed in the contrast, though. Had I known it would turn out that way, I would have scaled back my pledge.

vasta41 wrote:

JacksonRobinson wrote:In hindsight we could perhaps have pushed even harder on having them reprint the decks, but as the result was still a nice deck of cards and to avoid more delays we approved it.

Not exactly what Lotrek's mindset is but then again his ICONS project has been over 2 years in the making and over 1 year past due. Which presents quite the conundrum- is it better to delay and get it perfect or accept less than perfect to avoid delays? Which presents even more conundrums- how imperfect is the deck really? Would fixing the imperfection merit the extended delay? Is it worth asking the backers how they feel, keeping in mind that tallying votes would take even more time and delay the process even further? Lots of tough questions here...

My two cents- whether you want the opinion of your backers or not, keeping them in the loop is best practice IMO. Example- Mana says nothing and everyone wants his head. Lotrek explains his problems every step of the way and all he seems to get is praise and understanding. I've said it a few times in the thread and I'll say it again- even though Jackson didn't really fall on the sword I'm not as upset as everyone else here and given the choice I would have said, "eh, screw it- not big enough of a deal to delay this anymore." I know that's an unpopular opinion here but either way I maintain that it would have been nice to at least be aware of the "defect" before receiving it. While this probably wasn't the intent the "pulling the wool over our eyes" feeling isn't a good one.

I agree completely. I'm not a backer so I have no horse in this race, but I've received decks in the past that were not as advertised. Being informed of the changes ahead of receiving them would have softened the blow and set the artist/producer in a better light for sure.

Jackson: USPCC may be to blame, but I don't see any valid excuse for not informing your backers about this ASAP.

4.of.Clubs wrote:So it's all USPCC's fault?

As Jackson brought up in his post it's more nuanced than that. The printed colors not matching with the digital file does land on the printer, but the approval lands on KW.

vasta41 wrote:

JacksonRobinson wrote:In hindsight we could perhaps have pushed even harder on having them reprint the decks, but as the result was still a nice deck of cards and to avoid more delays we approved it.

Not exactly what Lotrek's mindset is but then again his ICONS project has been over 2 years in the making and over 1 year past due. Which presents quite the conundrum- is it better to delay and get it perfect or accept less than perfect to avoid delays? Which presents even more conundrums- how imperfect is the deck really? Would fixing the imperfection merit the extended delay? Is it worth asking the backers how they feel, keeping in mind that tallying votes would take even more time and delay the process even further? Lots of tough questions here...

My two cents- whether you want the opinion of your backers or not, keeping them in the loop is best practice IMO. Example- Mana says nothing and everyone wants his head. Lotrek explains his problems every step of the way and all he seems to get is praise and understanding. I've said it a few times in the thread and I'll say it again- even though Jackson didn't really fall on the sword I'm not as upset as everyone else here and given the choice I would have said, "eh, screw it- not big enough of a deal to delay this anymore." I know that's an unpopular opinion here but either way I maintain that it would have been nice to at least be aware of the "defect" before receiving it. While this probably wasn't the intent the "pulling the wool over our eyes" feeling isn't a good one.

MagikFingerz wrote: I agree completely. I'm not a backer so I have no horse in this race, but I've received decks in the past that were not as advertised. Being informed of the changes ahead of receiving them would have softened the blow and set the artist/producer in a better light for sure.

Jackson: USPCC may be to blame, but I don't see any valid excuse for not informing your backers about this ASAP.

Agreed, keeping KW's backers in the loop better is on top of the priority list going forward. While I personally like this subtle contrast it would've been a better decision to make sure everyone is aware of any larger changes like that. It tends to be a balance act deciding which design changes to inform about and which ones are irrelevant, but the combination of the lowered contrast in the design and then the darker print than expected made this something that should fall into the former of the two options.

I guess the response from KW has been quite defensive and I'm getting the vibe that gives me the "what happened happened, deal with it" kind of feel.

I know nothing can be done that this point, but that vibe is kind of disappointing to me...

4.of.Clubs wrote:I guess the response from KW has been quite defensive and I'm getting the vibe that gives me the "what happened happened, deal with it" kind of feel.

I know nothing can be done that this point, but that vibe is kind of disappointing to me...

Well what's done is done- there isn't much KW can do at this point except apologize. Let's face it- in the category of playing card mistakes the color rendering issue here is pretty low on the list. However in both Jackson and Marcus' responses, though explanations were clearly given neither one said, "sorry" for what happened to the deck. I know it may seem trivial at this point but that kind of irked me. Some big egos at KW I guess.

4.of.Clubs wrote:I guess the response from KW has been quite defensive and I'm getting the vibe that gives me the "what happened happened, deal with it" kind of feel.
I know nothing can be done that this point, but that vibe is kind of disappointing to me...

Well once he accepted the run with the darker colors, which just sounded like a compromise on not wanting to push the delivery back even further, or risk further complications/issues happening, I don't know that he could go back on that decision with the printer, and as far as the uncuts go it sounds like there literally wasn't anything he could do with the printer to make that happen, AND he gave you your money back. He hit every point that people took issue with and explained the situation thoroughly, as well as addressing the delay and apologizing for the lack of communication, which is uncharacteristic for him. I don't know what more you could expect here?

It seems like people have been really quick to condemn Jackson on this, where it sounds like he has made the best decision he could at each point with the information he had at the time.