The Hive Deck - New King's Wild Deck Now Available

[cosmicsecret]

I´m not getting any The Hive deck at this price. Sorry nope.
Prices like $8.95 or $9.95 would have been fair and totally okay with anyone.

[Mirror]

I must admit that I haven't seen Sinjin being happy with anything for a while now.

LOL! That's pretty funny. Have I become a grumpy old man now? "Hey you! Get off my lawn!" I was happy about the Hive deck since I think Brandon did a fantastic job, but it appears I will not be owning this deck, not because I can't afford it, but due to principle, and that doesn't make me happy. I guess I'm just going to have to wait for Uusi's 6th deck to be happy again...

I didn't want to insult you with that or anything also, I haven't read every single post you made, so that is just me general impression, it doesn't have to be true.

On another note, I won't be getting the Hive deck.

[Widdee]

This market will correct itself. As new creators enter and it gets more competitive you will see projects falling short due to lack of perceived value compared to the next guy whose deck is just as good only more reasonably priced. The high priced spread designers may be doing well right now but that is not necessarily always going to be the case. We're already seeing blowback on Jackson's Tallys and he may have factored in that he has to make hay while the sun shines because he may not always be top dog. I can't speak for Jackson but it would be running through my head if I were him.

People will vote with their pocketbooks as has been pointed out many times on this forum. There's a lot of difference between having the "safety" of guaranteed funds on a crowd funding site than risking your own money and design/printing costs out to the oft fickle will of the consumer. It can be a humbling experience.

[Sher]

I like the fact that (for the most part), we're not sycophantic fanboys of certain companies or people stumbling over ourselves to be "Yes" men. We're independent, and have minds and opinions of our own, and I hope UC is the place where you can find the truth, as brutal or bitter as it may be. I also hope this is a place where we can have divergent opinions but can still co-exist with each other without trying to shout each other down.

+1

[PlayingCardz]

$18 ... This is a sad day.

[sprouts1115]

Screenshot 2014-07-28 17.23.36.png (348.4 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

Where is this guy? MagikFingerz I miss him.... If you don't know him, F@#$ off and don't read the rest of this post...

@Jackson - Checked out the cards from Brendan Hong. http://www.brendanhong.com Again, I like the mustache on the KoH, but she needs a flower in the QoS. I like the orb in the KoC and the spector for the QoS. If he is going with traditional. ALL 4 queens need a flower. He has what looks to be a flower, but it need to be improved to be traditional. You have time...

Screenshot 2014-07-28 17.17.09.png (23.18 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

Maybe he could use this flower if he wants to be different... What is it?

Screenshot 2014-07-28 16.56.30.png (660.21 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

On a off note: I've known sinjin7 for a while. I respect what he says. He is the the definition of True Neutral, but I do have to agree maybe it's more Chaotic Neutral nowadays, but again that might be a good thing. Squeaky wheel. I am; however, concerned with the rumor of deleted posts. I'm jealous. I should be the only one being moded by the moderators. You have to think this is Brendan Hong's first deck of 1000. It's pretty good. It's not Jackson's, but I do see skinny clubs. Hmmmmmm


After reading all the responces maybe I should go with MPC first, then EPCC, 2nd and finally USPCC for the final stretch goal. If a did another Kickstarter, I could make the goal very low to start.... MPC can do 1 deck... Booya!

[chach]

I am; however, concerned with the rumor of deleted posts. I'm jealous. I should be the only one being moded by the moderators. !

No rumor, it's true. I'll vouch for it as I saw Sinjin's original post and then it was gone just a few mins later. Looks like the censorship here isn't truly put to bed, Mike needs to rein in at least one moderator IMO.

Also, there's no time for changing things around on this deck, it's printed, in hand and goes for sale this Saturday. No art changes or anything at this point. All that can be done is packaging and shipping.

[badpete69]

Are you guys ever going to change subject.. How about reigning in a few posters IMO

[Mike Ratledge]

OK, this is just not right, folks. I mean, with respect to Brendan, he's a new artist, trying to make a name - for Jackson.

At this point, I'll stumble to a new low and use it: Jack$on's doing anything and everything to monetize fancy paper into currency (I might point out that he's literally printing money as of his latest KS project - and I bought one, so I can't say much - he does good work), so here we are: these decks are $18 each or $34 per pair? Seriously? It would be different if they were something ground-breaking or even new. They aren't.

Here's their own pictures: (the tucks and heart courts)

What the hell? Like Lotrek observed: if they didn't have "Kings Wild" printed on the side, would you buy them? Better still, a brick for $200? That's less than $1 off each pair. My point is that Zenith was worth that, Erik Mana's Oracle #3 decks will be worth that - next week. These just are not. I truly believe in free business, making things that are rare available - for a price, but when you make something rare simply to boost the price? Why not print 2500 each and sell them for $10? Mo' money... Just does NOT make sense. Anything new? Nope. Anything different? Not really. Anything better than Uusi's Hotcake decks that sold for $12 and are being printed by USPCC? (and $10 each in a custom brick box?) _Those_ are different, even ground-breaking...

Again, it's subjective - and your mileage will always vary because fortunately you're not in my head. I wish I could see something better here, but I'll move on and let everyone talk amongst themselves.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Ok, most everyone has expressed their opinions and thoughts so here are mine.

I've never complained that a deck was too expensive. I've grumbled that I couldn't afford them. With everything I am backing and buying right now I can't afford to buy the Unbranded Fed 52's to go along with my branded set. Do I think they are over priced? No. Expensive yes, but art and beauty cost.

Are these decks worth $18? The answer is simple. It depends on the person looking at them. When I was 12 I told my grandfather I had a baseball card worth $10. He asked me if anyone had offered me $10 for it. I had to say no. He replied "Well it isn't worth anything". What he meant was that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. For me it isn't worth $18. It's a nice looking deck but I could pick up both Civil Unrest decks for that and to me they are nicer decks. In the end the market will decide the value and price of these decks.

As for the KW brand, well that's what brands are for. BMW, Apple, Gucci... the list goes on. Building a brand is business 101 and it allows you to make money. More of it, faster and with less effort than when you were building that brand. But in the end, only what the market will bear and accept. Those that think the product worth it, will buy it and those who don't, will not. Both are right and neither deserves to be ridiculed for their decision.

If you like what you purchased and feel you got a good deal... then you did. Simple.

There is no right or wrong... just art.

[Sher]

Are these decks worth $18? The answer is simple. It depends on the person looking at them. When I was 12 I told my grandfather I had a baseball card worth $10. He asked me if anyone had offered me $10 for it. I had to say no. He replied "Well it isn't worth anything". What he meant was that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Those that think the product worth it, will buy it and those who don't, will not. Both are right and neither deserves to be ridiculed for their decision.

If you like what you purchased and feel you got a good deal... then you did. Simple.

There is no right or wrong... just art.

I completely agree with you. This is what I was trying to say, but I think you said it better than I did.

[volantangel]

Sorry guys, to those who think that the discussion shouldn't revolve around the prices of the decks, prices are an attribute of the product (an important one at that) and it should be allowed for discussion.

That being said, I won't be buying these solely because of the price. But there are enough people out there (oh just look at fb) to snap up the products, but I sincerely hope they don't so that Jackson will rethink his strategy. Perhaps with this whole "saga", people will truly see jack$on for who he is.

[CBJ]

OK, this is just not right, folks. I mean, with respect to Brendan, he's a new artist, trying to make a name - for Jackson.

At this point, I'll stumble to a new low and use it: Jack$on's doing anything and everything to monetize fancy paper into currency (I might point out that he's literally printing money as of his latest KS project - and I bought one, so I can't say much - he does good work), so here we are: these decks are $18 each or $34 per pair? Seriously? It would be different if they were something ground-breaking or even new. They aren't.

Here's their own pictures: (the tucks and heart courts)

Screenshot_2014-07-28-20-39-02_1.jpg

Screenshot_2014-07-28-20-36-39_1.jpg

What the hell? Like Lotrek observed: if they didn't have "Kings Wild" printed on the side, would you buy them? Better still, a brick for $200? That's less than $1 off each pair. My point is that Zenith was worth that, Erik Mana's Oracle #3 decks will be worth that - next week. These just are not. I truly believe in free business, making things that are rare available - for a price, but when you make something rare simply to boost the price? Why not print 2500 each and sell them for $10? Mo' money... Just does NOT make sense. Anything new? Nope. Anything different? Not really. Anything better than Uusi's Hotcake decks that sold for $12 and are being printed by USPCC? (and $10 each in a custom brick box?) _Those_ are different, even ground-breaking...

Again, it's subjective - and your mileage will always vary because fortunately you're not in my head. I wish I could see something better here, but I'll move on and let everyone talk amongst themselves.

Mike seriously stop.


You've said all these points over and over again. and the whole " talk amongst yourselves" after your rant is you just stoking the fire.
Holy sh*t your pissing off a lot of people. You maybe need to start talking to some people that aren't in your inner circle bud or that you plan on making money off if in the future, because it's nothing good. and I pray to god you never sell a deck that's overpriced... this will all come back to haunt you.


For the record... I do think these are expensive. I will not likely buy any, but not for that reason.... but because it's not Bicycle. And yes, I consider Jackson a friend.
I picked up a Zenith deck (even though I thought it was way over priced as well)

But.. if we're being so open Mike... how much did those Gold Venexiana decks cost to make? can you break down those costs? How much profit was spread around from those?
How come your buy in on CL was $1000 per 1%? How was your company valued at $100K before you sold one deck. When you approached me you didn't even have a test site?
Shark Tank would have laughed you off the stage.


I think UC has turned into a breeding ground of hate and cynicism. I think people would agree that I wasn't like this before all the self publicity with Mike, and the whole RObert Butler thing started. And now... the ONGOING bitching/debate that's taking place in thread instead of in the proper section.


I would NEVER invite someone new here at this stage, and every day it gets worse.

PLease lock this tread up, it makes me sick.

Sorry guys, to those who think that the discussion shouldn't revolve around the prices of the decks, prices are an attribute of the product (an important one at that) and it should be allowed for discussion. .

IT's been said enough now. seriously. Now it's just insulting.

[Gareth]

Are these decks worth $18? The answer is simple. It depends on the person looking at them. [....] For me it isn't worth $18. It's a nice looking deck but I could pick up both Civil Unrest decks for that and to me they are nicer decks.

The issue we're starting to see with EPCC produced decks is the artificial rarity. It's becoming similar to the Madison situation that Ellusionist has created themselves - more and more 'extremely limited' decks (although in that case we know there's more). These situations eventually force collectors to become blaise about decks promoted as such. Compare this with say White Centurions - where only 1100 were made presumably due to nobody expecting them to become something (and let's be honest, the design is quite average). Likewise with the original Fed 52 - they weren't backed *that* heavily compared with everyone who wants one. A similar situation with Lee McKenzie's original Empire deck.

To bring it back to the Hive deck - like many here I really do like Brandon's design, but can't justify spending that much on a nice - but not mind blowing - design. If it were produced in normal print run numbers - say 2,500 or 5,000 - I doubt many on this forum could justify the cost to themselves. Hence I believe that main selling point for this deck is the "less than 800" marketing - not the any other quality of the deck.

The inevitable issue that I believe sinjin amongst others are bringing up, is whilst 'the community' back what often appear as cash grabs, someone - whether it be Jackson or Ellusionist, or some dodgy sounding guy on eBay - will continue to produce them. Sinjin, I and others can (sadly) ignore this deck, but it only takes a couple of hundred to hand over a wad of ca$h to encourage more of it into the future. Not that long ago many here thought that a $12 deck was a bit on the expensive side - and recoiled against the 'Pedale madness' - but now $15-25 is considered by some, possibly many, to be OK. You can only wonder when a $50 deck (which still costs $5 to make) will be considered reasonable.

Despite all of the promise of EPCC pushing the quality envelope and applying pressure to some of USPCCs dodgy practices (+/- 10%?) the biggest effect it appears to have made so far is the proliferation of high cost decks from small print runs.

As for the KW brand, well that's what brands are for. BMW, Apple, Gucci... the list goes on. Building a brand is business 101 and it allows you to make money. More of it, faster and with less effort than when you were building that brand.

Quite true, the funny thing is that it can tarnish just as quickly when a few mis-steps are made. We only need to think back a few years and consider what a great brand 'Circle City Cards' had made in this community.

[Mike Ratledge]

Mike seriously stop.

Jay? Seriously? I asked you nicely to stop for almost a month. You preferred to stand on your soapbox and ride Robert until it was sickening, and try to get me to do something, which is just weird. I know you better, and I wish you would think a bit more about this place than your personal vendetta.

But.. if we're being so open Mike... how much did those Gold Venexiana decks cost to make? can you break down those costs? How much profit was spread around from those?

I had nothing to do with the price for those, and I can assure you that after they were done a second time because some idiot miscut the decks during the one phase Lotrek couldn't supervise, he paid for them a whole lot more than they paid him back. He had to take several days off just to rest after working 20+ hours days for a week to recover from the screw-up. I will sell about 5 of those decks for about $500 each here in a few months, we'll see if they were worth the $90 or $100 everybody paid for them. I noticed the one thing you asked after you insisted that I remove you as a mod was whether you still got your deck.

How come your buy in on CL was $1000 per 1%? How was your company valued at $100K before you sold one deck. When you approached me you didn't even have a test site?
Shark Tank would have laughed you off the stage.

Funny you should mention that. I did offer a few people a buy in at $1000 a point at first when I really didn't know what I had, then went to $10,000 and got it easily from five investors, now I have two investment bankers trying to give me $250,000 each for 10%, but it's not happening. One of them - curiously - is associated with one of the people on - Shark Tank. I'm good, not interested in being on TV. You should be sitting on $50,000 worth of it, but you're not. I guess people think I'm being greedy. You don't make money to speak of on a 5% margin. I have a few tricks up my sleeve - to be announced here when I get around to it. Maybe do a little retail sales - not on CardLauncher, of course - that's for CrowdFunding.

Kind of funny - somebody said "must be nice" about my new car, but I guess they didn't consider that I've had a 6-figure income for 20 years doing cyber security for the federal government, US Cyber Command, NSA, FBI, DOJ, Secret Service, State Department & Defense Health Agency, teaching for the Systems Audit and Network Security Institute of Bethesda and South Carolina Bar Association.

I'm not able to control the prices people charge for decks on CardLauncher, although I do provide everyone with the opportunity to save about 20% off the present costs for all aspects of the process. Will they pass it along to the backers? Hope so. Can I force them to do so? Nope, I cannot. Am I plotting to take over the world? You betcha.

[volantangel]

Jay I don't know what makes you think that owners and moderators can't have an opinion on a deck. This isn't about cardlauncher or any other crowd funding platform. This is about Jackson, Brendan and the hive deck. I don't even know why you are bringing CL into this discussion, Gold Venexania isn't even part of CL.

What does Robert butler have to do with this thread/post ? You think we should lock up a thread for a deck of cards that has not even been sold ? But to keep an announcement on a thread on a single person ? Maybe some evaluation on your part is needed.

I want to make another comparison, the LE decks on golden spike are also a limited run of 1000 decks, those were priced at $13 shipped, came with a collectors box as the stretch goal was reached. Foiled and embossed, the costs shouldn't be too different, in fact it should be more expensive than the hive decks because it's 1000 only and not 1000 of two colours. Those were created for the best interest of the community and backers, these were printed for $$$ and no longer for he best interest of the community, hence I won't back this kings wild project, maybe not ever again.

[CBJ]

Mike seriously stop.

Jay? Seriously? I asked you nicely to stop for almost a month. You preferred to stand on your soapbox and ride Robert until it was sickening, and try to get me to do something, which is just weird. I know you better, and I wish you would think a bit more about this place than your personal vendetta.

Man.. you still don't get it. I think you need to go re-read the RObert thread, and the censorship thread.

I had nothing to do with the price for those, and I can assure you that after they were done a second time because some idiot miscut the decks during the one phase Lotrek couldn't supervise, he paid for them a whole lot more than they paid him back. He had to take several days off just to rest after working 20+ hours days for a week to recover from the screw-up. I will sell about 5 of those decks for about $500 each here in a few months, we'll see if they were worth the $90 or $100 everybody paid for them. I noticed the one thing you asked after you insisted that I remove you as a mod was whether you still got your deck.

Why would I not ask about the deck that you offered as a gift. I've modded UC FOR FREE for 4 years (through 4 owners).
I'm sure (without the screw up), the % of profit would have been substantial... why not shine a light on that? I'm just saying if you're going to focus on somebody for having high prices... why not go after the most expensive one.

Funny you should mention that. I did offer a few people a buy in at $1000 a point at first when I really didn't know what I had, then went to $10,000 and got it easily from five investors, now I have two investment bankers trying to give me $250,000 each for 10%, but it's not happening. One of them - curiously - is associated with one of the people on - Shark Tank. I'm good, not interested in being on TV. You should be sitting on $50,000 worth of it, but you're not. I guess people think I'm being greedy. You don't make money to speak of on a 5% margin. I have a few tricks up my sleeve - to be announced here when I get around to it. Maybe do a little retail sales - not on CardLauncher, of course - that's for CrowdFunding.

Kind of funny - somebody said "must be nice" about my new car, but I guess they didn't consider that I've had a 6-figure income for 20 years doing cyber security for the federal government, US Cyber Command, NSA, FBI, DOJ, Secret Service, State Department & Defense Health Agency, teaching for the Systems Audit and Network Security Institute of Bethesda and South Carolina Bar Association.

I'm not able to control the prices people charge for decks on CardLauncher, although I do provide everyone with the opportunity to save about 20% off the present costs for all aspects of the process. Will they pass it along to the backers? Hope so. Can I force them to do so? Nope, I cannot. Am I plotting to take over the world? You betcha.

Strange... the whole reason you approached me is because you had backers back out.. Oh... and the whole talking about how much money you made for 20 years... classy. Should we all pull out our bank statements?

And your last little blurb about how you can't control the prices on CL... nice covering your ass... but, I hope you come down just as hard on those campaigns running on CL that decide not to follow your business model and want to have high prices. If not, you're a hypocrite.

[CBJ]

Jay I don't know what makes you think that owners and moderators can't have an opinion on a deck. This isn't about cardlauncher or any other crowd funding platform. This is about Jackson, Brendan and the hive deck. I don't even know why you are bringing CL into this discussion, Gold Venexania isn't even part of CL.

What does Robert butler have to do with this thread/post ? You think we should lock up a thread for a deck of cards that has not even been sold ? But to keep an announcement on a thread on a single person ? Maybe some evaluation on your part is needed.

I want to make another comparison, the LE decks on golden spike are also a limited run of 1000 decks, those were priced at $13 shipped, came with a collectors box as the stretch goal was reached. Foiled and embossed, the costs shouldn't be too different, in fact it should be more expensive than the hive decks because it's 1000 only and not 1000 of two colours. Those were created for the best interest of the community and backers, these were printed for $$$ and no longer for he best interest of the community, hence I won't back this kings wild project, maybe not ever again.

I'll be more than happy to clarify further on anything I've posted in this thread once all the non HIVE conversations have been moved to a proper thread in the General section.

[Mike Ratledge]

I'll be more than happy to clarify further on anything I've posted in this thread once all the non HIVE conversations have been moved to a proper thread in the General section.

Why do you keep posting them here, then?

The profit on the Venexiana Gold decks were in line with everything else I've ever analyzed, around 25-30% - before he had to eat another $15,000 in costs.

I would respond to some of the other BS, but you'll just keep shouting until you are sure you have beaten the dead horse into glue. He's gone, PCA has nothing to do with UC any more. Get over it.

[MagikFingerz]

Jay, you're stoking the fire at least as much as Mike is. If his posts bother you that much, take Pierre/Sinjin's advice and just don't read them. Constantly commenting on them and blowing things out of proportion won't do anyone any good. Honestly, so many of your posts lately have made ME sick. Why? Because they just seem hateful. Mike have had posts that bothered me as well, but none were anywhere near hateful. Same goes for Pierre btw, Sinjin's post had no name-calling or disrespectful language yet it was blown out of proportion and countered with an angry post. This is a forum, guys. If something makes you angry, you have the option to step away, cool down and come back later to write a rational and well thought-out reply to whatever it is you disagree with.

I think UC has turned into a breeding ground of hate and cynicism.

Posts like yours are what's making it that way. I've always had a lot of respect you, Jay, but you're losing it REAL fast acting like this.

Mike has as much right to state his opinions here as anyone else. Does CL make him seem biased? Of course, but it doesn't need to be pointed out every time, people will make of it what they will. Are some things going to come back to bite him in the ass? Quite possibly, but that will happen when it happens.

[Bikefanatic]

Fact of the matter is if you like it, you're going to buy it!


Some say Zenith looks better, that's why the $25 was ok. So if one deck doesn't look good like another then it should be priced lower? Also you have some people that think Hive looks just as good as Zenith so they're ok with the price.

[Mike Ratledge]

Damn! Maybe we should consider talking about something like The Hive deck here - it would be refreshing. (and yes, I'm just as guilty as everyone else)

I'm going to go post some good stuff about Erik's Mana #3. This is truly a waste.

Like I said, I only WISH I could control prices - oh, that's a thought: I am taking notes. People on CL will do exactly what they want, and I can't do a darn thing about it except point out the same things I am right now: there's no reason to charge $18 for a deck that costs $6 any more than there is to charge $12-$16 for one that cost $4 or $5.

[volantangel]

Jay, you're stoking the fire at least as much as Mike is. If his posts bother you that much, take Pierre/Sinjin's advice and just don't read them. Constantly commenting on them and blowing things out of proportion won't do anyone any good. Honestly, so many of your posts lately have made ME sick. Why? Because they just seem hateful. Mike have had posts that bothered me as well, but none were anywhere near hateful. Same goes for Pierre btw, Sinjin's post had no name-calling or disrespectful language yet it was blown out of proportion and countered with an angry post. This is a forum, guys. If something makes you angry, you have the option to step away, cool down and come back later to write a rational and well thought-out reply to whatever it is you disagree with.

I think UC has turned into a breeding ground of hate and cynicism.

No, YOU are with posts like yours. I've always had a lot of respect you, Jay, but you're losing it REAL fast acting like this.

Mike has as much right to state his opinions here as anyone else. Does CL make him seem biased? Of course, but it doesn't need to be pointed out every time, people will make of it what they will. Are some things going to come back to bite him in the ass? Quite possibly, but that will happen when it happens.

How many pluses can i add to a post ? +1

Jay there is not one post not about the hive and/or the discussion on its prices. At least not before your post, if i were to intervene and moderate the posts it would start with your post.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Sorry guys, to those who think that the discussion shouldn't revolve around the prices of the decks, prices are an attribute of the product (an important one at that) and it should be allowed for discussion.

Absolutely. It's what I love about the internet and forums. The free exchange of opinions, ideas and thoughts are the cornerstone of much of what is great about mankind. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

That being said, I won't be buying these solely because of the price. But there are enough people out there (oh just look at fb) to snap up the products, but I sincerely hope they don't so that Jackson will rethink his strategy. Perhaps with this whole "saga", people will truly see jack$on for who he is.

Neither will I and for the same reason... kind of. I paid $40 for my Branded Fed 52 and was happy I got it for $10 less than the KW website, because I thought the art justified the price. Nothing against Brendan, it's a nice looking deck.

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Are these decks worth $18? The answer is simple. It depends on the person looking at them. When I was 12 I told my grandfather I had a baseball card worth $10. He asked me if anyone had offered me $10 for it. I had to say no. He replied "Well it isn't worth anything". What he meant was that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Those that think the product worth it, will buy it and those who don't, will not. Both are right and neither deserves to be ridiculed for their decision.

If you like what you purchased and feel you got a good deal... then you did. Simple.

There is no right or wrong... just art.

I completely agree with you. This is what I was trying to say, but I think you said it better than I did.

Thanks. To me the value of a deck is determined by how much I like it. The art, backs, pips, courts and tuck. I will pay $20, $50 or even $500 for deck and I don't really think about the production cost. That's how I buy tomatoes... not cards, or art. Cards will be judged by the market with the same yardstick and either fail or succeed.

[Cbkimble]

Couldn't help myself.

[charlie81dbz]

Wow, there is so much I could say after reading this thread. Mostly at this point though, I just hope Brendan hasn't taken too much of what has been said to heart, because there is a lot of things that come across pretty mean. I hope his first deck is successful and if he's planned on doing any decks in the future this won't discourage him.

I think the biggest thing that has bothered me is the comments about it only being a so-so deck. Of course art is purely subjective and everyone will have their own opinions on that, but otherwise this deck has everything that people on these forums demand. Custom pips? Check. Fully custom courts? Check. Embossing/foiling/printing on the inside of the tuck? Check. Are the courts facing the right directions/have the right amount of eyes/the correct king killing himself? Check. As far as I can tell, the only thing wrong with the deck is the price.

And yes, it is definitely overpriced imo. But not the most overpriced deck I've ever seen. Is the price artificially high? Yeah, but that didn't stop me and many other people from buying Fed 52 decks when they were $50 or more per deck, $300 for a Jerry's Nugget, $20 for a Zenith or so many others I can't even think of right now. But I (and I'm guessing the majority of the people here) also have no idea what the agreement is between Jackson and Brendan for this deck. There may be other factors outside the norm that came into this deck. It could be that that's a fair price for the deck.

I do know that I will be buying a pair. If the price was more in line with kickstarter decks I'd probably grab a split brick at least, but it's not so I'll have to settle for less. But I like the deck. And I like Brendan. He's been nothing but helpful when I've had issues with pledges on Jackson's ks decks and I would hate myself if I wished for this deck to fail just to force Jackson into correcting his prices.

nECr0 mentioned Kings Wild was just a brand like BMW, Apple, Gucci...I think he hit the nail on the head with Apple. Excellent products, overpriced, rabid fanbase. And if that's where Jackson wants to take Kings Wild and can do it, more power to him. I just won't be 'upgrading' decks every time a new one comes out.

charlie

[sinjin7]

I have to agree that perhaps Brandon may have become an innocent victim with all this King$ Wild drama going on. I don't think people here were intentionally putting down the Hive deck, they were just trying to make the point that there are other decks they like better that weren't priced as high as $22.00 per deck shipped. I've said it before in this thread, I think this is a fine deck. I actually think its among the better decks that have been produced so far this year. That's why its so unfortunate that I won't be getting this deck.

What I'd like is for Brandon or Jack$on to come here and discuss/defend this deck. Why is it just radio silence from them? With the way the discussions are heading in regards to King$ Wild, Jack$on's Tally Ho's, and Brandon's Hive deck, you would think its in their best interest to do some damage control here, explain themselves, and try to win us back over.

[TLZ1979]

i find this whole "it's too expensive" bitching, all quite humourous

i am really not sure how anyone that purchased Zenith, Gold Venexiana, or any other deck that is over $18 complain that these decks are too expensive, if someone is willing spend that sort of money on one deck no matter who makes it, or who sells it, then why would they critcise other people for choosing to spend that sort of money on this deck.

Yes i bought gold Venexiana and Zenith

Some on here say on well you shouldn't have to pay $18 for this deck as it is not a good as Zenith, to be honest i love the tuck on Zenith, the cards i am not so impressed with, except for the full bleed back, but the colouring is pretty bland. Was it worth $20.00 in my eyes, nope, do i regret buying it. Nope.

The beauty in cards is in the eye of the beholder, the person that chooses to spend that money.

Anyone trying to justify this deck isn't worth spending money on it because they happen to don't like it and therefore think it is a waste of money and yet went out and spent money on Gold Venex, or Zenith is having a laugh seriously. What makes you the expert in what is worth $18 or not.

[vasta41]

i find this whole "it's too expensive" bitching, all quite humourous

I don't think anyone is saying that. The general consensus is that the value isn't worth the price (i.e. not getting bang for your buck). My gripe at this point, like sinjin said is the lack of presence for KW. Since everyone keeps making this comparison, Paul and Lortek were here almost daily when Zenith and Gold Venexiana were coming out/came out.

More on topic: Sorry if this was asked/answered before but has Brandon designed a deck before? Or is there another one coming down the pipeline? I like his artwork on this deck and would like to see what else he can do!