Leonardo | Art Playing Cards now live on KS

[arrowhead]

I just got my platinum uncut sheet. Love it, but now I wish I hadn't broken the seal on the deck...

By the way: The dimensions of the uncut sheet is approx. 22" x 22". I just ordered this frame on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Craig-Frames-1WB3 ... B0049OB4GW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it will work great. I'll post a picture when I finally have it on the wall.

Thanks Mr. Du Midi for your hard work and dedication!

[Bruno]

TKO
RighO, you got him on a technicality.
Not enough humility some cried.
But I sense a sort of lynch mob undercurrent here which is totally unwarranted.
At the end of the day, remember these are brilliant, if flawed, art playing cards, and as such are a wonderful first world product.
You really *really* don't want this to become your pathetic first world problem.
Or do you ? Christ, it's Th'Coen Brothers.
Lovely, lovely cards.

[sms69x]

TKO
RighO, you got him on a technicality.
Not enough humility some cried.
But I sense a sort of lynch mob undercurrent here which is totally unwarranted.
At the end of the day, remember these are brilliant, if flawed, art playing cards, and as such are a wonderful first world product.
You really *really* don't want this to become your pathetic first world problem.
Or do you ? Christ, it's Th'Coen Brothers.
Lovely, lovely cards.

Hi Bruno, actually it is not a technicality, a technicality would be that if instead of having a X type of finish it would have an Y type of finish beacause X was not being produced anymore, what this guy did was completely different, he actually lied to us, and that's the main point that everyone is trying to explain. If you're are ok with giving your money to someone that may lie to you to get your money and not deliver what he promised that's ok, it is up to you.

And also no one (at least from what I read) said that the cards weren't beautiful/a great work of art. But to me the cards being beautiful and all of that, doesn't compensates for the fact that the creator lie to us and then came here with a very poor excuse and then went dark.

IMPORTANT: in his deffense, offering a refund to those that aren's happy is a grat geasture, but unfortunatelly not enough (for me).

[MagikFingerz]

Bruno,

For many of us here it's not just about buying pretty decks, it's about finding out which designers and which business practices you want to support with your money. This is especially true for those of us who have had to cut down on spending because of financial reasons, but every consumer should always keep it in mind. Perhaps even more important in the playing card market, where the amount of decks and designers are still rising steeply. I don't just pay for quality products, I also pay for customer service and professionalism. The careless attitude of Mssr du Midi toward his supporters is not one that I want to see, and thus I decide to not support him - as should anyone else who feels the same way.

Btw, something being a "first world problem" does not make it less of a problem. Everything is relative, anything can be put into different perspectives. Just because I think world hunger is morally a bigger issue than animal rights, doesn't mean I'm against animal rights organizations.

[Bruno]

Accepted, with some reservations ....
I will draw your attention to these two words ....
Professionalism
Careless
You'ld think these would be mutually exclusive, but being human here we are.
Now I'm sure others wish their two bobs worth, but do it here like adults, eh ?
Leave the snide and cheap shots in comments to the usual suspects.
That is all from BB.

[TGunitedcardists]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dent-de-Lion du Midi has only made the offer to refund decks on United Cardists. He hasn't sent a Kickstarter update admitting his mistake (deception might be a better word) and offering the refund to everyone who pledged, not just United Cardist members. It seems shady.

It's probably too late though. There are lots of other designers who also make nice decks, and that don't try to bait and switch when it comes to Kickstarter projects. More money will flow to them.

Dent-de-Lion du Midi...you handled the response poorly and sneakily. Poor form.

[sinjin7]

There are many collectors out there who never open their decks, especially if they are more expensive, "limited" versions. There are probably some people out there who paid the higher premium for the Platinum deck who have relied on Dent-de-Lion's word that they have an irridescent finish with gilded and have no idea that he changed the deck on them without notice. Given his recent Sunday emails, he seems content to bask in the praise of his decks and doesn't seem to show any inclination to try to set the record straight with the majority of his supporters.

Bruno, we gave him every opportunity to show that he had, in fact, disclosed his huge decision not to have gilding on KS as he impied he did. I contacted him directly by PM imploring him to provide that evidence as well so that he could defend his reputation. Dent-de-Lion was less that forthright with his KS campaign, and he was disingenuous with his explanation here at UC. For me, this is an untrustworthy pattern of behavior, and for people to discuss that here hardly equates to snide and cheap shots at Dent, nor us being the lynch mob you characterize us as.

[badpete69]

As one that usually do not open my decks (except the extras i buy for that purpose) I have to agree totally with sinjin7 assessment. It isn't acceptable to pay for something and then get something else even though my deck is still sealed. I appreciate that refunds were offered here but it should be made very clear on Kickstarter which it has not. Has anyone requested a refund yet?

[Bruno]

Those cheap and snide repeat offenders know who they are.
Surprised, Sinjin7 that you feel it neccessary to write yourself/others off so ....
Unless, like me, you never meant that description for *this* forum.
Especially not the lynch mob element, that undercurrent which is certainly hard at work behind the scenes.

That sniping is apparent and that it comes from various venues gives the evidence.
Quite understandable given that it is UC's antidote to rhyme, reason and rationality.

And now it would seem that Mr du Midi is down for repeat offending. Well done !
Lawyers at 20 paces now.
Sinjin7, did you get your refund ?

My apologies, Mike.
But this has gotten too unwieldy, underhand (not here!!) and unforgiving. O, and unworthy.
Sorry.
Best I retreat honourably to my preferred buffoonery.
See you there ! !

[Mike Ratledge]

One thing we can agree on, we seldom all agree.

I sat this one out, so I have no skin in this game, but I think it's odd that he has (so far?) only offered a remedy here. Bad business practices make bad decisions worse.

[Bruno]

Yes and Yes !
Errors compounded never ever never make the argument any more watertight.
So we're in the right place Mike.
Normality rains on us.
Out.

[sinjin7]

In fairness to Dent-de-Lion, he has been prompt with his PM's and emails to me in regards to a refund. I am to send him back my two Platinum decks (which I did today), and he said he will give me a full refund via PayPal once he receives his decks.

[Mike Ratledge]

In fairness to Dent-de-Lion, he has been prompt with his PM's and emails to me in regards to a refund. I am to send him back my two Platinum decks (which I did today), and he said he will give me a full refund via PayPal once he receives his decks.

But John, too be fair to everyone else? Why not? I know that we ARE a special place and group, but everyone should have the same opportunity in this case, at least that's the way I read it. I've been known to be wrong before, but not this time.

[sms69x]

In fairness to Dent-de-Lion, he has been prompt with his PM's and emails to me in regards to a refund. I am to send him back my two Platinum decks (which I did today), and he said he will give me a full refund via PayPal once he receives his decks.

Did you had to pay for the shipping or he will refund that value as well?? Just asking because to US backers it can mean just an extra $2 or $3 for a deck, but for internationals that ill mean $10 to $15 a deck!

[sinjin7]

Well, I received my refund. I shipped back my 2 Platinum decks in a Priority Flat Rate box and Dent-de-Lion sent me $50.00 via PayPal: $40.00 for the decks, $5.95 for my shipping cost, and I guess $4.05 for "handling" costs. While I appreciate the full refund, I emailed him, PM'd him, and wrote a letter which I included with the returned decks where I implored him to take the ethical step of disclosing to all his KS backers about the lack of gilding and iridescent finish, as well as an explanation of his failure to use the USPCC as his printer as he promised as a stretch goal if funding exceeded $50K. I guess its just easier to cut a check to a few former backers than to do the right thing and offer full transparency for all of his backers.

[Gareth]

... an explanation of his failure to use the USPCC as his printer as he promised as a stretch goal if funding exceeded $50K.

I find this as much of a problem as the lack of gilding/iridescent finish. The campaign heavily promoted that these would be USPCC, but if they missed $50K they'd use someone else (eventually Legends). So he gets over $80K and just ignores these previous promises? (I'm not sure whether/how many backed, after $50K was reached, at least partially because of the printer promise, but I'd been pretty peeved now. (Thankfully I missed it, but could have been one)

The campaign still says (amongst many USPCC promises):

The United States Playing Card Co. is the most prestigious playing card manufacturer with close to 150 years of experience. They have the most famous brands in-house… names like Bicycle, Hoyle, Aviator & Bee… Leonardo will become part of their rich history of playing cards.

Given this, the new board game project is falling on deaf ears here. Who knows what you'd actually end up with - could be a scribble on the back of a piece of paper for all that promises appear to mean to the creator.